IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-09-14

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* th1a goes to make some coffee.16:21
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th1ahi dwelsh, jelkner, Lumiere, aelkner, yvl, moquist.16:33
yvlhi th1a16:33
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dwelshgood morning16:36
aelknerdwelsh: did you get my private message?16:36
th1aaelkner and I had a good meeting and got the rest of his work for the release planned out.16:38
th1aI'm pretty happy with what we came up with, particularly in the gradebook.16:38
th1aWe do have one issue we thought might suit yvl better ;-)16:40
yvlare those basically the Karmic bugs assigned to aelkner in Launchpad?16:40
yvlth1a, go ahead :)16:40
th1aWe're adding four reports we picked out of a stack of examples I have.16:41
th1aSo we'll have enough reports on groups/sections in particular that we'll need a "Reports" action button and a page where components can register their reports.16:41
th1aDoes that make sense?16:42
yvljust one question16:42
yvlare those static links?16:42
yvllike "My Report Card"16:42
yvlumm, scrap that16:43
yvlit doesn't matter16:43
aelknerit's like the Manage page16:43
aelknerwe need a viewlet manager just like that16:43
aelknerfor contexts group, person, and section16:44
th1aIn some cases the user will need to add some additional input to specify the report, but that can be on a second page.16:44
aelknerthere needs to be a 'Reports' link16:44
aelknerthat takes the user to a page like the Manage tab16:44
aelknerwhere there's a list of reports16:44
aelknereach package, like schooltool.gradebook16:44
aelkneror lyceum journal16:45
aelknerwould register a link against the viewlet manager16:45
aelknerdoes that make sense?16:45
yvlsomething like a "dropdown action button" could do?16:45
Lumiereimo for reports it would be better to have them register against a Reports dropdown16:45
Lumiereinstead of a new page16:45
aelkneri'd be agreeable with that16:46
yvlwe're on the same page then16:46
Lumierethe manage tab at the top doesn't drop down because it would be an unexpected style break16:46
th1aWell, then we need to discuss the likelihood of having those.16:46
Lumiereto the other tabs16:46
Lumiereth1a: CanDo already has Reports in an actions drop down16:46
LumiereI'd prefer to move them to a Reports tab16:46
* Lumiere pokes dwelsh 16:46
th1aIt wouldn't be a "tab" regardless.16:47
dwelshyes, the reports tab is awesome.16:47
Lumiereth1a: sorry, drop down button thingy16:47
dwelshit's a drop down menu16:47
dwelshright next to the action menu16:47
dwelshit's an easy place to find reports16:47
th1aHow are things going, dwelsh?16:48
dwelshCanDo is up and stable16:48
dwelshTwo main areas of work right now:16:48
dwelsh1) deprecating/archiving/retiring competencies that need to stay in the competency database, but that we don't want to see in current SchoolYear16:49
dwelsh2) reports16:49
dwelsh#1 is quite important, and is waiting on Douglas16:49
dwelsh#2 is important but not that hard16:49
dwelshOne thought about reports... they become numerous and customized.16:50
Lumiere2 is not time sensitive either16:50
dwelshIt might be nice having a view that allows the manager to click on/off which reports show up in the reports drop-down16:50
dwelshIt seems like every county wants its own customized reports16:51
th1aWell, that's not a problem *yet*.16:51
dwelshSo it's nice having a lot of them around... we just don't want to see them all in every instance16:51
Lumieredwelsh: could a lot of the reports be the same base report with different bits by county?16:51
th1aOh "county."  I thought you said "country."16:52
dwelshNo.. county/jurisdiction/school system16:52
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th1aWell, that's also a reason to put them on a page rather than a drop down, since you have more room.16:53
th1aAnyhow, that's something we'll address eventually.16:54
th1ayvl: So what's your status/plans?16:55
yvlok... I fixed several small bugs last week16:56
yvland spent some time on my workboard16:57
yvl(various stuff for Karmic and post-Karmic release)16:57
yvlmove forward with security policy16:57
yvlbut... did not release it yet - again16:58
yvlthe plan for following weeks is:16:58
yvlthis week - stop (finish) playing with security policy; ability for students to enter their contacts16:58
yvlnext week - Navbar changes16:59
yvlthe week after that - calendar overlay management16:59
yvlwe were contacted by mvbalgooy last week17:00
th1ahi mvbalgooy!17:00
yvlwell, that's the rough outline17:00
th1aOne thing about the self contacts.17:01
th1aThe issue is not so much students being able to add them themselves.17:01
th1aAs making it easy to do when an administrator (or whomever) is entering them.17:02
th1aAnd primarily, just adding that relationship at all.17:02
* yvl runs of to look at the contacts view for a brief moment17:03
th1aI mean,17:03
th1aaside from adding that relationship, there might not be anything else to do specific to "self."17:03
th1aBut it might be an excuse to add a "Submit and Add Contact Info" button to the add person form.17:04
yvlwell, when you add a person17:06
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yvlyou get redirected to person's homepage17:06
yvland you are one click away from the contact management page then17:06
yvland when you get to the contact management17:07
yvlif you create a new contact17:07
yvlyou are able to specify the relationship in the form17:07
yvlwe can redirect people to contact management page directly after adding them17:08
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yvlbut I'm not sure if it's sane enough17:08
* th1a slowly remembers the issues involved...17:08
ronaldeyvl: Mirko (mvbalgooy) and I talked about your questions: we currently are running schooltool inside a dedicated virtual machine (on kvm) with intrepid. We installed schooltool from your ppa. So it's ok to clone that vm, and dist-upgrade it to karmic.17:08
th1aOne thing is that with a self contact you already know the name.17:08
yvlgreat news, ronalde!17:09
ronalde(of course; we still like Debian (lenny a lot ;)17:10
yvlth1a, not always17:11
yvlin Lithuania you most likely don't know that :)17:11
Lumiereronalde: I still run most of my schooltool instances from hardy17:11
yvl(I assumed you ment surname of the contact)17:11
Lumiereand will until there is a new lts17:12
th1ayvl: Maybe the basic concept is not clear here.17:12
th1aWhat I'm calling a "self" contact is when the contact is the student him or herself.17:12
th1aSo the name of the contact has to be the name of the student.17:13
yvlsorry, I misunderstood you earlier17:13
yvlyes pre-filled form of contact information would be handy17:14
yvland at least an unintrusive checkbox "[ ] Add contact information" in the person add form17:14
yvland a special case relationship "self"17:15
yvlor maybe not17:15
th1aThe problem is not confusing the user,17:15
th1abecause they won't understand the difference between making a regular contact and a self contact.17:16
mvbalgooybye yvl17:16
th1aHowever, if they are picking "self" out of a list of relationship choices I think they're fairly likely to get it right.17:16
yvlbye mvbalgooy, will keep in touch by email17:16
th1aI'll have to walk through this a little more.17:16
th1aOne problem is that in primary and secondary you rarely have a student with his own address,17:18
th1aI guess now you might store kid's mobile #'s, but I don't imagine that's common yet (dunno),17:18
mvbalgooythat will be fine I removed my spam filter ;)17:18
th1aand in some schools you'll frequently want their emails.17:18
yvlthanks, mvbalgooy ;)17:19
th1aAnd right now, to add an email for a student you also need to add a self-contact.17:19
th1aIf every kid has an email address, that's too many hoops for each student.17:20
yvlI see17:21
th1aI'll walk through it an think about it some more.17:22
yvlfor such a simple case like email17:22
yvlI think demographics should do fine17:22
th1awe're going to have an email system that will expect the addresses to be in a certain place.17:23
th1aSo we just have to think it through.17:23
th1aI think for the sake of consistency it would be better to put it in contacts.17:24
yvlhmm, I think I understand what you need17:24
yvlmaybe we should postpone further discussion?17:25
yvlI'd like too think a little about it, and then... probably email you.17:25
th1aWell, I don't think there is anything else pressing in the "formal" meeting.17:26
th1aaelkner: Send me an invoice for August.17:26
th1ayvl:  One other idea is just to add an "email" field to the add person form that automatically creates a self contact for the new person.17:27
th1aOK, have a great week gentlemen!17:29
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:29
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yvlhmm, th1a, that would reduce clarity on system's behaviour I think17:30
th1ayvl:  Yeah, it has its drawbacks.17:30
yvland, obviously, self contact is a special case17:31
yvlediting Name / Surname should be prohibited17:31
yvlI meant that it should be bound to the user's Name & Surname17:32
yvl"I am John, but please contact me as Peter"17:33
yvlwould just scream of fraud :)17:33
th1aYeah, something's up with that.17:34
yvlhmm, what else...17:35
yvlwe can search and add any contact to any user17:36
yvl"Hi, I'm John, he's also the same John"17:36
yvlok, I'll want to think about the implementation at some point17:39
yvlI'll email you, th1a17:40
th1athanks yvl.17:40
th1aNote that just creating a "self" relationship will unblock aelkner.17:40
yvlI understand17:45
yvlbut for now he can just use a random persons contact for testing17:45
yvlas email will not be mandatory, will it?17:46
th1ait isn't blocking the whole system, just the email part.17:48
yvlok then17:51
yvlI'll bump the priority on this :)17:52
th1aMainly, if aelkner knew the exact method of requesting a self contact, making it convenient to create them could wait.17:53
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yvlaelkner - you can fake it for now17:56
yvlfor example, write a method:17:56
yvldef getEmail(person):17:56
yvland fill it with something like17:57
yvlget persons relationships17:57
yvlfind the first relationship that is "parent"17:57
yvland return it's email17:57
yvlthat would be enough for testing17:57
th1aaelkner probably went back to bed.17:58
th1aIf we agree that self will be "self," that might be sufficient too.17:59
yvlok, time to go home18:06
yvlgoodbye guys :)18:07
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NakidGirl_With_Iknock knock22:50
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