IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-08-03

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th1aHi yvl, menesis, aelkner, moquist, Lumiere.16:31
aelknergood morning16:32
yvlmorning :)16:32
* yvl is away for 3 minutes16:33
* th1a is getting a slow start too...16:33
Lumierehi all16:34
* Lumiere is a volunteer again :)16:35
th1aLumiere: I hope you enjoy it.16:36
th1aLet me know when you're back yvl.16:36
yvlI'm back16:37
th1aWant to get us started, yvl?16:38
yvlfirst, I had few days of unexpected vacation last week16:38
yvlso not much to show off with16:38
yvland I'm a bit stuck with security descriptions16:39
th1aWe're all at that point to varying degrees, I think.16:39
yvlI'm having a hard time understanding what SchoolTool is supposed to be - again16:39
yvlAs a result, it's not that easy do draw a line between developer customisability and "hacked things that just work"16:40
yvland I'll want to dump some of my thoughts a bit later today, if its ok16:41
th1aIn an email?16:41
yvlwell - your choice16:41
yvlit seems a bit out of scope for the IRC meeting16:41
yvlok, email.  moving on...16:42
yvlI was wondering about August 1 release16:42
yvlhow important it is to do that quickly?16:43
yvlI understand that it is preferable to do it in Aug16:44
yvlbut personally I doubt that we'll make a release until end of the month16:44
yvlI'll leave that as an open question :)16:44
yvland another thing - PDF report customization16:45
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yvlI didn't mean to anger th1a that much...16:45
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Lumierewb th1a16:46
th1a...and we're back.16:46
yvlwelcome back16:47
th1aI left off with "in an email?"16:47
th1aOr something like that.16:47
yvlso, another thing - PDF report customization16:48
yvlit lacks the ability to override default PDF template16:48
th1aAugust 1 isn't particularly important.16:48
th1aThat was just a general deadline I stuck in there at the beginning of the summer.16:48
yvlok, thanks16:49
Lumiereit's a goal deadline rather then a hard one?16:49
Lumiereth1a: what's the karmic one?16:49
yvlLumiere - Ubuntu karmic16:49
th1aThe karmic one is "stuff that should be in the karmic release"16:49
LumiereI guess we'er still in ppa then16:49
yvlZope 3 is getting into Debian by the way16:50
th1aWe'll make a serious push for karmic +1.16:50
* yvl agrees16:50
th1aIt'll be in the budget, etc.16:50
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th1aSo what's up with pdf report customization?16:51
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yvlIt makes sense to add overrides to default templates16:52
yvland I'll do that some time this week16:52
yvlI can bump priority on that if replaceafill is blocking on this16:52
th1aI'd say it is pretty important.16:52
yvlok, so first thing tomorrow then16:53
LumiereI know fsufitch is semi-blocking on it16:53
yvloh, sorry - I meant fsufitch :)16:53
th1a*Reports* are one area that definitely need customizability.16:54
yvlprogrammer customizability for now, I guess16:54
yvlI added several lines in header/footer that programmers can customize16:55
yvlor we can easily add text editing in UI16:55
yvlbut I doubt that it is enough to satisfy all school need16:56
th1aDo you have header/footer code sitting somewhere?16:56
th1afsufitch couldn't find it.16:56
th1aIt is in trunk though?16:58
yvlhas two properties: header and footer16:58
yvlbut there's not much to customize16:58
yvlpage title in the header16:58
yvltwo right-aligned strings in the footer16:58
* th1a pinged fsufitch on Google Talk.16:58
yvland that's it16:59
yvlthe thing is, that when you define a template in RML16:59
yvlyou need to know exact coordinates where to place stuff in16:59
yvlthere's no text wrapping, etc.16:59
th1aIt doesn't just flow?16:59
yvlit's possible to do that17:00
th1aNot even wrapping?17:00
yvlbut its a lot of work17:00
yvlno wrapping17:00
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th1aRML never wraps text?17:01
yvlinside a page - yes17:01
yvlwell, technically inside a "frame"17:01
yvlas a page can have several frames17:02
th1aA template is different?17:02
th1aApparently I need to get friendly again with the RML spec.17:02
yvlit has only instructions to draw in the page space17:02
th1aIt has been a while.17:02
yvlthen again17:03
yvlusually you clearly define how much space the header/footer will use up17:03
yvlWord does that, but my knowledge may be rusty17:03
th1aYeah, that's not unusual.17:04
yvlRML is actually quite useful, once you get to know it17:05
th1aI liked it when I used it.17:06
yvlit really beats debugging lists of weird flowables17:06
th1aYou just worried me there for a second.17:06
yvland it's much more readable than programable pdfs17:06
yvland shorter17:06
th1aI agree.17:06
yvland stylesheets are easy17:06
yvlI could go on... ;)17:07
yvlso - the backbone is there17:07
yvlbut I waited for more real-life scenarios to check were to put customization holes17:07
yvlbecause upfront design didn't lead anywhere good in this case17:08
th1aOK, so let's give that enough love to get CanDo's reports out without a horrific hack.17:09
yvlthat's it from me, I guess17:10
yvlrest of it all will be in the email17:10
th1aAny news since Friday?17:10
aelknerwe spoke thursday :)17:10
aelkneranyway, I added a new attribute to the report card layout object called 'sections'17:11
aelknerjust to make sure we're on the same page,17:11
aelknerwhereas the columns of a layout were term, report activity tuples17:12
aelknersections are term, report sheet tuples17:12
th1aI'm not sure what the practical significance of that is.17:13
aelknereach section the administrator adds to the layout results in a section of the outline appearing17:13
aelknerhow's that?17:13
th1aAre you using "section" two different ways?17:14
aelkneroh, yes, the word section is confusing here17:14
th1aJust a little.  ;-)17:15
aelknerwhereas the grid has columns17:15
aelknerthe outline has sections (chunks)17:15
aelkneror blocks17:15
aelknerhow about that word17:15
aelknerthat's better17:15
th1aInfinitely better.17:15
th1aNothing could be worse than calling them "sections."17:15
Lumierecalling them something already existing in the vocabulary of the system => destined to failure17:16
th1aAlso, the outline view is still defined by activity.17:16
th1aIt would just be nice to also know the sheet context.17:16
th1aTo explain what we're talking about to everyone else...17:16
th1aTo to basic report card layout once you allow comments,17:17
aelknerok, i'll explain the columns first17:17
aelknerfor the grid part of the report card17:17
aelknerthe user specifies which report sheet activities are displayed in the grid17:17
aelknerso the resulting tuple looks like (term, report sheet, report sheet activity)17:18
th1a(you can't put comments in the grid)17:18
th1a(fit them)17:19
aelknerso the report card pdf view loops though the sections for the student17:19
aelknerand displays on row per section17:19
aelknerand each row has one cell per (term, sheet, activity) tuple17:20
aelknerso if a report sheet has three activities, two scores and one comment17:21
aelknerthe user can specify the two score activities to go as columns in the grid17:21
aelknerthe comment activities can only be included as blocks in the outline section below the grid17:22
aelknerthe outline will one block per section, each block having a sub-block for each activity specified17:23
aelknerwith the activity title as heading17:23
th1aHey... the report card isn't using RML yet either, is it?17:23
aelkneri was going to get to that...17:24
th1aJust checking.  ;-)17:24
aelknerno it isn't, so i suppose I should consider doing that as well17:24
aelknerunless you want me to get it to work the hard-coded way first17:24
aelknerwhat say ye?17:25
th1aI think it would make more sense to make the simpler report RML first than further complexifying before switching.17:25
aelknerok, will do17:26
aelknerso, basically, the existing report card, with its new outline section17:26
aelkneris available to be requested for an individual student17:26
aelkneror for the whole student group17:26
aelknerbut each report card is a snapshot of what the student has done for the whole year17:27
aelknerthe header is just the student name and school year17:28
aelknerso far, so good?17:28
th1aWell, we really need some more info in the header, but we don't need to discuss that now.17:29
th1aOnce we get this to RML, I can muck around myself with the simple parts.17:29
aelknerbut we agree on the dimension of the report17:29
aelkneri.e., one per student for the current school year17:30
th1aIt is not significantly different than it is already.17:30
aelknernot at all, just putting it out there before i ask about another report17:30
aelknerok, so the other report we discuss on thursday was the Single Section Report Card17:31
th1aYes.  We still need to figure out where that is going to go.17:32
aelknerthis would be the equivalent of the narrative report that yvl created for SLA17:32
aelknerbut i'm not sure on how the user is supposed to specify what goes in there17:32
th1aIt is *exactly the same report* only for one section.17:32
th1aAt least for starters.17:33
aelkneri had a feeling that was the case, but just to be sure17:33
aelkneryou're suggesting that in SLA's case17:33
aelknerthey would have no columns in their layout17:34
aelknerand the blocks would specify the activities from the new narrative report sheets17:34
aelknerthat i created for them during the migration17:34
aelknerjust to remind you17:34
aelknerthey have two report sheets, on called 'Fall Narratives', one, 'Spring Narratives'17:35
aelknereach sheet has the three activities, Grade, Assessments, Comments17:35
aelknerbut i'm not sure how to get the desired effect for them using the block system we discussed17:36
th1aYou'll have:17:37
aelknerif they were to specify the three activities from the fall narratives sheet17:37
th1a- Subject17:37
th1a  - Fall Narratives17:37
th1a    - Grade17:37
th1a    - Assessments17:37
th1a    - Comments17:37
th1a  - Spring Narratives17:37
th1a    - Grade17:37
th1a    - Assessemtents17:37
th1a    - Comments17:38
th1a- Other Subject (if relevant)17:38
th1a - Fall...17:38
aelknerby subject, what do you mean?17:38
th1aYes, sorry.17:38
aelknermy concern is this17:38
th1aCourse, really.17:39
aelkneryes, understood17:39
aelknerhowever, last year, they filled out the fall narratives in the fall17:39
aelknerthen did the report run17:39
aelknerthen we did that hack to move the fall narratives to backup attributes17:39
aelknerthen they filled in the spring narratives and did that run17:40
aelknerthey weren't looking for the report to have the fall narratives info when they did the spring run17:40
th1aWell, we'll pretty quickly need to allow multiple report card layouts.17:41
aelknerthat's what i was implying17:41
aelknerso we're on the same page17:41
aelknerthat means the user would need to specify which layout to use when they request the report17:42
aelknersorry if i forgot, but did we discuss that as well on thursday?17:42
th1aThat's a later step though.17:42
th1aNot really directly.17:42
aelknerok, so for now, i'll just get the blocks section of the layout working first, and worry about multiple layouts later17:43
th1aDo RML first.17:44
aelknernow for the section report card17:44
aelkneris that to be available as a separate action link at the same context level as the multy-section report card17:45
aelkneri.e., at the student or group context17:46
th1aI have to figure that out.17:46
aelknerok, let me know your thoughts on that as they come together17:46
aelkneras for the section report card header17:47
aelknerthe narrative report card PDF had SLA's desired header17:47
th1aWe just have to get custom headers fully baked.17:48
aelknerwhich was, section title, student name, teacher, advisors17:48
aelkneryeah, that has to be customizable17:48
th1aWell, there will be the letterhead type header and then you'll probably just need to add some report-specific header-ish info sometimes as well.17:49
th1aBut just as part of the report template, not the header template17:49
aelknerfor now, i'll hard-code just section title, student name, teacher and leave advisors out of it17:50
th1aWhere I'm probably abusing the term "template."17:50
th1aKeep it simple for now.17:50
aelkneranother question about the section report card17:51
th1aOnce these are in RML, it will be easier for me to change these myself than try to explain it.17:52
* th1a dismisses the rest of the class.17:52
aelknerwell, i'll have to look at yvl's RML code to see how that would be done17:52
aelknerbut for now, can i assume that the grid part of the layout would be ignored in the section report card17:53
aelkneras the grid has sections for rows17:53
aelknerand there only bring one section, the grid makes now sense17:54
aelknerno sense17:54
th1aIt might as well be there, it is still a reasonable way to display the data.17:54
aelknera grid with one row, are you sure?17:54
th1aIf you've got six A-F scores, sure.17:55
th1aPeople have looked at grades in that format for well over a century.17:55
aelknerok, i see what you mean17:55
th1aWe're used to it.17:55
aelknerso that's all i got for now17:56
aelknerhave i bored everyone else yet?17:56
fsufitchmornin, people17:56
th1aI'm going to work on documenting attendance and doing some PR this week.17:57
th1ahi fsufitch.17:57
th1aRead the backlog.17:57
fsufitchsorry, i usually don't wake up too early17:57
th1aOK gentlemen, have a great week!17:57
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:57
aelkneryou, too17:57
fsufitchalright, read the backlog that pertained to the stuff i have to do18:02
fsufitchyvl: is the semi-customizable header and footer in trunk?18:02
th1aI believe he said it was.18:04
yvlsemi-customizable - yes18:04
fsufitchthe only customizable part i have in the code version i have now is being able to set the title which is automagically changed in the header18:05
fsufitchwell yes18:05
yvlsearch for
fsufitchi realized the header and footer variables exist18:05
fsufitchi saw that18:05
yvlI think you need more customization than that :)18:05
fsufitchwell yes18:05
fsufitchunless... hmm18:06
yvlI guess what you need is:18:06
yvl(see schooltool/skin/templates/
fsufitchunless i define a __call__ for my view myself, which first call's the superclass's __call__ and then i do weird stuff to the template myself18:06
fsufitchyeah ive seen that too18:06
yvl<pageTemplate id="main">18:06
yvland you want to change contents of it18:07
yvlI'll refactor the pageTemplate to a separate viewlet or something18:07
yvlfirst thing tomorrow18:07
fsufitchthank you! :)18:07
aelkneryvl: i just did a bzr pull on schooltool trunk, and i didn't get any changes18:08
yvljust note, that there are no <paragraph> tags there18:08
yvljust <drawString>18:08
aelknerdid you commit the rml changes you mentioned?18:08
yvlaelkner, which changes?18:08
aelkneryou mentioned in the meeting18:09
aelkneri thought that was new code18:09
yvlno, it's already there18:10
aelkneroh :)18:10
fsufitchyvl: yeah i noticed it's drawString only18:10
fsufitchi should be able to deal with it fine, though18:10
fsufitchnow it looks like i have to go due to family issues18:11
fsufitchthe cat needs to be taken to the vet...18:11
fsufitchttyl, people18:11
yvlsee you, fsufitch18:11
yvlaelkner, should be more interesting to you18:12
yvland related templates18:12
yvlbut for headers and footers - see rml_macros18:12
aelknerwill do, thanks18:13
yvlthe static part of the page is done in <pageGraphics>18:13
yvlthen there are the frames, where all the flowables from the story go18:13
yvlso if you want to define different headers for your reports18:14
yvlyou'll want to write a different <pageTemplate>, once it's refactored out18:14
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Lumieredanielfolsom: is sentry not up?19:02
danielfolsomnope it's up - however, i have been having a lot of difficulty sshing into - yesterday it wasn't working at all, and ever since it came back up it's just been going crazy slow - so i'm starting to think the problem is on my end19:03
danielfolsomwould you know of anything that would cause that? like i can go through the website fine - but sshing via the terminal takes forever (so long that my usual sftp client, MacFUSE (Google made) gives up)19:03
danielfolsomi just wanted to go out on a limb and see if you had heard of that happening ...19:04
danielfolsomwhen i do ssh -v -v -v ... it gets to "debug2: we sent a publickey packet, wait for reply" and then freezes for a while. eventually it prompts me for the password, but after i put that in it freezes again a short time later ("debug2: we sent a password packet, wait for reply")19:06
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danielfolsomLumiere: haha sorry if that's a little foreign19:07
Lumieredanielfolsom: we had a power outage19:11
Lumierewe'll look into it19:11
danielfolsomLumiere: ok sweet - thank you!19:12
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