IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-07-27

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Lumiere'morning all16:29
th1aGood morning Lumiere, yvl, menesis, aelkner, moquist.16:31
yvlmorning th1a16:31
yvlmorning guys16:31
th1aI'm at my parents taking a semi break for a few days.16:32
th1aThe meeting at Wireless Generation went pretty well.  Had a good time talking to their geeks in particular.16:33
th1aNothing very concrete came out of it.16:33
th1aThey pointed out that one problem is that the schools that could most benefit from moving off their current weird local systems,16:33
th1aare the hardest to move, since they're using weird local systems.16:34
yvlmakes sense16:34
th1aBut it was a good talk overall.16:35
th1aThey actually have some Zope 2 scars, so I spent a while reassuring them that Zope 3 was almost completely different.16:35
th1aIn retrospect, calling Zope 3 something other than "Zope" might have been a good idea.16:36
th1aSince they never really merged.16:36
th1amenesis: Any thoughts about these paste bug reports?16:36
th1a(or yvl)16:36
menesisthe thing can be called Zope Toolkit now16:37
menesisth1a: I got several of them but no idea what happens16:37
menesisone user says that it works on 32 bit but not on 64 bit16:38
th1aHadn't noticed that.16:38
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menesismaybe that's a problem. but I don't have a jaunty amd64 install16:38
th1aCould there be useful info in the paste logs?16:38
menesisam downloading/installing today16:38
th1ayvl: How's the permissions work coming?16:41
yvlit's a bit behind schedule16:42
yvlbut no big problems there16:43
yvlthere was one more thing - the guys who want groups in calendars called16:43
yvlI guess I'll be doing that the week after the next one16:44
yvlso I wanted to spend some time to look deeper in how to solve that16:44
yvlthat delayed things a bit, sorry16:45
yvlso, actually I don't have much to report...16:45
Lumieregroups in calendars called ?16:45
th1aA school (?) that has been using SchoolTool for calendaring for a while needs shared group calendars back, so they're paying for at least part of that work.16:46
th1aPOV is doing it.16:46
yvlthis one16:47
th1aThanks yvl.16:47
th1aLumiere: How are things on the CanDo front?16:47
Lumierenot too bad16:48
Lumieresounds like replaceafill and fsufitch are finishing up their work pretty well16:48
Lumierepackage seems to be working16:48
th1aWhere are the packages?16:48
Lumierethat makes me all in all happy16:48
th1aIn ST's repo?16:48
LumiereST ppa16:48
th1aI'll have to try them out.16:49
Lumierethe only different is 7090 instead of 708016:49
th1aAnything else?16:50
Lumierehave to rewrite the book section16:51
Lumierebtw, jeff is using karmic16:51
Lumierefor writing sphinx now16:51
th1aFor some reason.16:52
Lumierenew version16:52
Lumierewhich does what he wants16:54
th1aShould/can we build karmic packages now?16:54
LumiereI wouldn't16:54
Lumiereit still has major issues16:54
Lumierejust turn it down a little16:55
Lumierewrong chat16:55
th1aOK.  Thanks, Lumiere.16:56
aelkneri took a couple of days off last week, but i did accomplish the following:16:56
aelkneri removed all traces of narratives and demographics from the intervention package code and tests16:57
aelkneri fixed the last two views remaining (section interventions and sla home view)16:57
aelknerto handle school years16:58
aelkneri fixed the intervention tab to give the same message that the report card system gives16:58
aelknerif there is no current term set up16:59
aelknerthere is just one thing that remains to be done16:59
aelknernow that i've removed the narratives from the UI17:00
aelknerpeople like the SLA folks may miss the linkage to them in the section interventions and student intervention center17:00
aelknerwe discussed this last week, and you said that it was ok to assume the intervention package depended on schooltool.gradebook17:01
aelknerand if that's the case, I could replace the links to the narratives with links to the report sheets17:02
th1aYes, do that.17:02
aelknernow in the section intervention view, the links to the narrative were to the add/edit views17:03
th1aYou could make it conditional if schooltool.gradebook wasn't there, right?17:03
aelkneri could17:03
aelknerwould you prefer that?17:03
aelknerok, i'll do that17:04
th1aNo real reason not to.17:04
aelknerif that's the case, then I'll need to move my no current term message view to schooltool17:04
yvlhmm, why?17:05
aelknerbecause right now that view exists only in schooltool.gradebook17:05
aelkneri'll need that in schooltool17:06
aelknercan we agree that i'll put it there?17:06
th1aThat's fine.17:06
aelknergetting back to links to report sheets17:07
th1aRight?  It is a generic "you need to set up terms first" view.17:07
aelknerit just says, "the action you just tried to perform..."17:07
aelknerand it directs the user to direct to the admin user to set up a term17:08
yvlI'd prefer two custom views in schooltool.gradebook and schooltool.intervention17:08
aelknerwhy would schooltool.gradebook need such a view if it existed in schooltool?17:09
aelkneroh, sorry17:09
aelkneryou said schooltool.intervention17:09
yvlwhat I meant was that schooltool itself doesn't need this view currently17:09
yvlor at least it looks like it doesn't17:10
aelkneryeah, until someone uncovers a bug17:10
th1ayvl does have a point.17:11
yvlthe general policy I'd like to follow is to keep as little unused views/objects in eggs as possible17:11
yvlso we wouldn't need to track what is used externally and if it is still used17:11
aelknerthat's fine.  i was just trying to avoid code redundancy17:12
aelknerso if schooltool.intervention is not going to depend on schooltool.gradebook17:12
aelkneri'll create the redundant view in schooltool.intervention17:13
aelknerthe last thing17:13
aelknerthe difference between linkage to narratives in the section intervention view and the student intervention center17:13
aelknerwas that the section view linked to adding/editing the narratives17:14
aelknerand the student view only linked to viewing the narratives17:14
aelknerwhen i replace that with linkage to the report sheets17:14
aelknershould i create a student report sheet view in schooltool.gradebook17:15
th1aThat sounds right to me.17:15
aelkneronly to be accessed from the intervention package?17:15
th1aCould you make it part of gradebook?17:16
aelknerit would be part of the gradebook code, but there's nowhere in the gradebook ui that needs it17:16
aelknerso it would only be the intervention package that would link to it17:16
aelknerif that's ok with you, i can do that17:17
th1aWe'd get it linked in soon enough.17:17
th1aI just haven't focused my attention on the student views.17:17
aelknerbtw, i'm wondering about the idea earlier to only display report sheets if the school.gradebook is installed17:18
yvlmaybe... move that to schooltool.intervention and keep it's dependency on schooltool.gradebook17:19
yvl* its17:19
aelkneri was just about to point out17:19
th1agradebook will definitely want student views of report sheets.17:19
aelknerah, yes17:20
th1aBut overall, worrying about dependencies between intervention and gradebook is a very minor issue.17:20
aelkneri was just about to say17:20
aelknerthat if i have code that refers to schooltool.gradebook in the intervention package17:20
aelknerthen by definition, it depends on schooltool.gradebook17:21
aelknerisn't that so?17:21
th1aWell... I don't know how hackish it is considered to use a try/except on the import.17:22
th1aIf that is considered harmful.17:23
th1aOr pointless.17:23
aelknerwell, first of all, it's hackish, but the try/except of the import is not the only issue17:23
yvlyes, aelkner17:24
aelknerthere would also be code in the views17:24
th1aWell, lets just say YAGNI then and let interventions be dependent on gradebook.17:24
aelknerfollowing if 'schooltool.gradebook' in app17:24
aelknerok, good17:24
aelkneri prefer that17:25
aelknerso this week, i'll work on the report sheet linkage17:25
th1aHypothetically, if we did want to attach interventions to multiple gradebooks, like, say CanDo, how might we do that?17:25
th1aInterfaces... component architecture...17:26
aelknerit's not that complex17:26
aelknerif cando wanted to link to interventions17:26
aelknerwhich btw would mean a dependancy of cando on the intervention package17:26
aelknerit only needs to do the same thing i need to do17:26
aelknerwhich is to find the report sheets and present the links in the desired views17:27
th1aBut at a certain point isn't the whole idea of the component architecture that we should be able to have different packages provide the same interfaces?17:27
aelknerthe component architecture allow for that17:28
th1aIf you wanted to show CanDo scores in the intervention package.17:28
aelknerbut in this case, we don't need it17:28
th1aSee what I mean?17:28
aelkneroh, sorry17:28
aelkneri had it backwards17:28
aelknergood point17:28
aelkneryes, the intervention package could query for adapters or utilities for providing links to grades17:30
th1aWe could refactor it later if we actually need it.17:30
aelknerad then present those links without knowing where they came from17:30
th1aThat's fine then.17:30
th1aAny last words?17:31
aelknerso for now, i'll hard-code the linkage to schooltool.gradebook report sheets17:31
aelkneryes, one more thing17:31
aelknersoon, i'l request a merge of my branch to schooltool.sla17:31
aelknerat that time, i'd like to request that schooltool.sla get copied, creating schooltool.intervention17:32
aelknerin the end the two eggs, schooltool.intervention and schooltool.intervention17:33
aelknerwill not have the same code17:33
aelknerschooltool.intervention would contain only the sla package\17:33
aelknerand depend on schooltool.intervention17:33
aelknerand teh intervention egg will have no trace of the sla package17:34
aelkneryvl: so you see the need to create the new package, right?17:34
aelkneror egg i should say, i guess17:34
yvlschooltool.intervention would contain sla package?17:35
aelknersorry, typo again17:35
yvluh, ok then17:35
yvlI think I follow17:36
aelknerschooltool.sla would only contain the sla package17:36
aelknerand depend on schooltool.intervention17:36
yvlok, will do17:36
aelknerso i'll request that as part of my merge request17:36
yvlok, thanks17:37
aelkneri.e., the launchpad comment17:37
aelknerkeep an eye out for that17:37
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th1aWhy do we need schooltool.sla at all?17:37
Lumiereth1a: it is a configuration package17:38
aelknerlehman has his preferences, doesn't he?17:38
Lumierelike schooltool.stapp2009fall17:38
aelknerlike the home view which links to moodle and drupal17:38
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aelkneractually, that's the only reason left for having the sla package17:39
yvland it is a good reason, IMHO17:39
aelkneri don't think all intervention users would want that override of the home view17:40
th1aI seem to have dropped my connection.17:40
Lumiereit's also where custom errors and imports for sla would live17:40
Lumiereth1a: nope17:40
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Lumierenow you have <_<17:40
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yvlth1a is gently reminding that it's time to wrap up ;))))17:40
th1aGood morning!17:40
aelknermorning :)17:41
th1aHow is everyone today?17:41
aelkneri'm great17:41
th1aLet's get started.17:41
aelkneri love being interrupted when i have the floor :)17:41
th1aDid I miss anything?17:41
aelkneronly that all seem to agree on the need for schooltool.sla egg17:41
aelknerwith its override of the home view17:42
th1aWhy again?17:42
yvlI'd like to think of cando, sla and schooltool-2009 as separate applications17:42
yvlwith skinned views, and a bit different configurations17:42
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th1aYes, that view we can't assimilate.17:43
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yvlso, sla is a collection of schooltool eggs with some configuration sugar on top17:43
aelkneri'll address some of the new bugs you submitted last week17:43
aelknerthat's all i got17:43
th1aOK.  Cool.17:44
th1aThanks guys.17:44
th1aHave a great week, gentlemen.17:44
aelkneryou, too17:44
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:44
yvlyou too17:45
Lumiereth1a: it's a configuration package17:55
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moquistth1a: hey18:56
moquistreplacefill is working on breaking down the ST-side tasks in prep for further specification and quotes18:56
moquistI'm working on the moodle side of project estimation18:56
th1amoquist: So things are progressing?  Do you understand their cases a little better?18:59
moquistMore conversation with Joe is necessary.19:00
moquistI think more work needs to be done on our end first -- one of the outputs will be something Joe can read that will do a better job of describing how this will work.19:00
moquistoh - yes, things are progressing. no, we don't necessarily understand their use case any better at this point.19:01
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