IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-06-22

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th1aHi yvl, menesis, moquist, aelkner, Lumiere.16:30
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th1aaelkner: Have you made any progress on the comments feature?16:32
yvlhi guys :)16:33
aelkneri've been working on the view for student grades16:33
aelkneri need to dynamically generate the form fields, so i've been studying z3c.formlib16:34
aelkneri don't believe schooltool has an example of a dynamically generated form16:35
th1aAs opposed to one that is generated from the interface?16:35
aelkneryou see, normally, a form is generated from an interface that maps to an object16:36
aelknerbut in this case, the object is an adapter of the gradebook object16:36
aelknerand the fields depend on the activities in the gradebook16:37
aelknerwhich is not static, so i need to loop through the activities and generate the form fields from them16:37
th1aI see.  Well if you get stuck, don't be afraid to ask for help.16:38
aelknerdon't worry, i won't16:38
th1aaelkner is working on adding the ability to store comments in the gradebook.16:38
aelkneryeah, that means having a new form that allow the user to enter the grades for all activities for a student16:39
yvlaelkner, scoholtool will soon have examples of such forms :)16:39
aelkneryvl: oh really?16:39
aelknerwhat is the feature?16:40
yvlbut not very good ones16:40
yvlfeature: On the course view form, next to the "New Section" button, instead of a drop-down to select a single term, there should be (above the button probably?) a list of terms in the year with check boxes, so you can create multiple *linked* sections across terms.16:40
yvlit is now a separate page16:40
yvlwith 3 dynamically generated drop-downs16:40
yvldidn't commit it yet, though16:41
yvland Contact should have similar views16:41
yvlall of it is pretty "unclean"16:41
aelknercould you please email me the branch you publish when you commit something16:41
aelknerit doesn't have to be clean16:41
yvlit will go straight to trunk16:41
th1aI'm a little confused at this point, yvl.  I think I filed some contradictory bugs about this over time  :-S16:41
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yvlno th1a, all the bugs lead to a nice solution, thanks :)16:42
aelkneryvl: could you email me when you commit it to trunk?16:42
th1aSo we'll now have a "New Section" action and then?16:42
yvlok aelkner16:42
yvlyes, th1a16:42
yvland a view with course, start term, end term dropdowns16:42
th1aaelkner: You can subscribe to commits to trunk.16:42
yvland of course title and description fields16:42
th1aIs that from the section container?16:43
yvlsection container, or a course16:43
yvlterms get pre-selected on the first case16:43
yvlcourse on the second16:43
yvlseemed logical to put "New Section" in both places16:43
aelknerth1a: how do i do that? do i need to go to each branch to subscribe to commits?16:44
th1aaelkner: I don't know offhand.16:44
yvlaelkner, I think you want to16:45
yvlinstead of following all the branches of schooltool-owners16:45
yvljust trunk, gradebook trunk, lyceum journal trunk, etc.16:45
th1aJust the trunks.16:45
yvlby the way, Alan, z3c.form might be... umm.. unfinished when it comes to subforms16:47
yvlso don't be alarmed if things seem worse than they should16:47
yvlbecause they are16:47
th1aIs there a new release of z3c.forms?16:47
th1a2.0 or something?16:48
th1aStephan announced something recently.16:48
th1aAt this point do we wait for that to get into a KGS?16:50
yvlfixes some of the things that were bothering me16:50
yvlit maintains KGS 3.4 compatibility16:50
yvlI missed the new z3c.form release somehow...16:50
yvlwill look at it16:51
yvlfrom the first glance, it seems that it's a good idea to update the dependency to it16:51
yvlbut you know...16:51
yvl* but you never know16:52
th1aOK, what else is going on yvl?16:52
* th1a has been piling on the bugs.16:53
yvlyes, I noticed :)16:53
yvlsorry that the progress is so slow16:53
yvlmany of the remaining bugs have some deeper issues underneath them16:54
yvlI spent some time last week looking at the dead-end bugs16:54
yvlbut failed to write an email to you16:54
yvlseems like a widget similar to those in Launchpad should solve them16:55
yvlbecause they are "return to parent container" type of bugs16:55
th1aI'd prefer not to use breadcrumbs.16:55
yvlsimple breadcrumbs should fail, well at least from the first glance16:55
th1aWhat widget are you referring to in LP?16:56
yvlthe bread-crumby thingy Launchpad/SchoolTool16:56
yvlit never goes deep as normal breadcrumbs16:56
yvlmax depth I've seen is 3 items16:57
yvl(the top left corner)16:57
yvlit's purpose is to provide some sensible scope your'e working on, instead of tracing the full path16:58
yvlI wonder what were the reasons to reject breadcrumbs in SchoolTool?16:58
th1aa) everything I've read indicates that users don't understand them.16:59
yvland I've seen a proposal dated few years back that suggest the Launchpad-like version16:59
th1ab) they encourage our developers to think of SchoolTool strictly in terms of mapping to the ZODB hierarchy.16:59
th1ac) they encourage our developers to not worry about navigation because the user can always breadcrumb out of trouble in theory.17:00
aelkneryes, all good points17:00
th1ad) at times you are moved from one part of the hierarchy to another as a user, which isn't confusing unless you're looking at the breadcrumbs, which are now totally different.17:01
th1aThe only problem with a general "Up to parent" type solution is that I don't think the parent is always where you came from.17:01
yvlwhat if we just used a single item?17:02
th1aIn the past we've talked about passing the return URL to a form.17:02
th1ayvl: That could be fine.17:02
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yvlfor example, when editing a demographics field:17:03
yvl*Demographics* // [view] [edit]17:03
yvlview and edit looking like actions17:03
yvl*Demographics* looking like something else17:03
yvlso that people wouldn't confuse them17:03
yvlth1a, I'll create a separate branch for that then?17:04
yvlso you all can look at it and decide if it's worth keeping17:04
yvlthat thing would make easier to solve 6 bugs, I think17:05
LumiereI would think it would be useful to keep a 'last location' type of thing17:05
Lumierethat kept track of the last area they were at (a section, people, group, etc)17:05
Lumiererather then a breadcrumb17:05
Lumierea way back to what they were looking at last17:06
th1aI tend agree with Lumiere.17:06
yvlI had something similar in mind17:06
yvlbut not auto-detected, because I hate when this kind of automation fails17:07
th1aNot auto-detecting what?17:07
yvlthe last place or container or something visited17:07
th1aI think we're on the same page.17:08
th1aLumiere: How's CanDo packaging coming?17:08
yvlthat's basically all I have to report without going into too much detail17:08
th1aThanks yvl.17:08
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th1aDid everyone read the email I forwarded from jinty about Zope Framework packages in Debian?17:11
Lumiereth1a: I was at a wedding last week17:14
th1aLumiere: Let us know if you need any help.17:15
yvlth1a, I missed it :|17:15
th1aI think I forwarded it to the developers list.17:15
th1aWhoops.  Old developers list...17:16
th1aGotta take that out of my contacts.17:16
th1aOK, well, it is good news.17:17
th1aAlthough I don't think we'll make it into karmic, the long term trend is good for us now.17:17
th1ayvl & menesis:  Did either of you talk to the Russians about packaging?17:18
menesisth1a: not yet. I am writing the email at the moment17:18
Lumierewill need some tomorrow17:18
Lumierecalled to office bbiab17:18
th1aOK Lumiere.17:19
th1amenesis: Thanks.17:19
menesisth1a: but the basic answer is -- I cannot create all those RPMs17:19
th1aI don't want YOU to.17:19
th1aThey seem capable of it, with some direction.17:20
menesisbut as I understood by reading the mail again, they will do that themselves?17:20
menesisthat's good17:20
th1aYeah -- they maintain a whole distribution themselves.17:20
th1aThat's why I've been trying to get this going...17:20
th1aif it was just more work for us I wouldn't be excited.  ;-)17:20
menesisI have installed CentOS and it has only a handful of python packages17:21
menesisthe problem is that Schooltool depends on Zope17:21
menesisand as I understand there are NO Zope packages for any of RPM-based distros17:21
th1aBut don't we automatically generate all the .debs we need from eggs?17:21
th1aWe can't use the Ubuntu Zope packages anyhow.17:22
menesisand that's a bigger task than packaging schooltool.17:22
menesiswell, it's not that automatic17:22
th1aRegardless, it is worth our while to point them at how we do it for .debs and let them decide if they can do it for .rpms.17:23
menesisalthough it's simple. and building rpms is built-in to python distutils17:23
th1aThey also have a lot of Zope 2 experience, so it may work out.17:23
th1aIt is better than a shot in the dark, at least.17:23
menesiswill see17:23
menesisI'll send an email with some details later today17:24
ignasaelkner: if you need custom fields for z3c.form - look at custom demographics17:25
menesisI'm sorry I am so late with that17:25
aelknerignas: ah, yes, thanks17:26
menesisand also I will not be available from wednesday to sunday to answer their emails17:26
th1amenesis: Just let them know that.  The rest of us will help if we can.17:27
ignasyvl: as for breadcrumbs - in a lot of places where some kind of navigation between "parent" objects is needed I used to do a "full header" (look at section views) that includes links to places that you care about17:27
yvlthough doing that for Manage->XXX links looks just... wrong17:28
yvl* links pointing to Manage->XXX17:29
ignasyou are talking about "errors" "custom demographics" ... or about "Years" "Groups" "Persons" ?17:30
yvlthe latter17:30
yvl "Years" "Groups" "Persons"17:30
ignasgoing from Years -> Manage or going from 2009 -> Years?17:31
yvl2009 -> Years17:31
yvlor from editing a specific group to "Groups"17:32
ignashmm, yeah, our containers do not have a "Up" link, and you have to make 2 clicks to get there most of the time17:32
yvlture - but it looks like dead-ends17:33
th1aI'm not so much worried about "Up" links seeming out of context but the times when "Up" takes you to a different place than where you came "down" from.17:33
* yvl too17:35
ignasyes, it would be nice to have /2009/groups/foo_bar/members/john/ with "up" pointing to foo_bar/members17:35
ignasthe views on views thing for table views ;)17:35
yvlor even foo_bar17:35
* yvl votes for foo_bar :)17:35
ignasbecause at the moment when clicking on "john" in the "members" list17:36
ignasyou will get to /persons/john17:36
ignasand that will either have "the same view with same url has different "up" buttons"17:36
ignasor "i click john, i click up, wtf!?"17:36
yvlthere are two solutions I'm tossing around17:37
yvlone, to bluntly keep track of where you came from17:37
ignasas in - replicate the "back" button?17:37
yvlsomething like that, but more like back->back17:38
yvlthe second one - to deduce a link from who you are17:38
th1aYou might have only certain pages register themselves as potential "back" locations.17:38
yvlteacher looking at a person who is student, cares about the students group17:38
th1aIndex views.17:38
yvlor something like that17:39
yvlth1a, yes17:39
* th1a has to go babysit.17:39
th1aHave a great week gentlemen!17:39
th1aThanks for the help ignas.17:39
yvla great week for you all :)17:39
th1aCarry on among yourselves...17:39
ignasnp, am not helping really ;)17:39
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:40
ignasI am not sure 100% automatic solution will really work, though i guess it's a matter of taste17:40
* yvl is not sure either17:41
yvlhence - tossing around17:41
ignasI am pretty sure it will take loads of time fine tuning a 100% automatic solution to work well, and you will end up with a skynet :)17:41
yvlI generally hate those 100% automated predictions of what you want to do17:43
ignasyeah, I still would keep the hierarchy on the traverser layer17:44
ignasto keep it "visible"17:44
ignasso group/members/1 group/members/john17:44
ignasbut that's mostly because of the way my brain works17:44
ignaswell - whichever way you do it ;) because you are referring to a "relationship"17:46
ignaswhat I want to say is17:46
yvlhmm, got it17:46
ignasyou can store the "up" in Session17:46
yvlor in traverser17:46
ignasor in hidden attribute17:46
ignasor in the url17:46
yvlI meant url17:47
ignasI like url, because you can see it and user can see it17:47
yvlI noticed that ;)17:47
yvlcalendar editing... ;)17:47
yvl* calendar event editing17:48
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cpcareyLumiere: ping17:52
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Lumierehi cpcarey18:17
cpcareyhello Lumiere18:17
LumiereI was in a meeting with my Principal18:17
Lumierecpcarey: I have the current nhs service log18:18
cpcareywith or without my changes?18:18
Lumierewithout for sur18:18
Lumierechange the password please18:19
LumiereI have a feeling we'll have to give you some memory18:19
Lumierecpcarey: I am not going to be able to do much more to help atm18:20
cpcareythats ok18:20
cpcareyi don't know the default password though18:20
Lumieresee pm18:21
cpcareythat doesn't work18:22
cpcareyis this something newly set up, or something older in which i might've already changed the password?18:22
Lumiereuh I just made the account18:25
Lumieretry again18:25
cpcareyok i got it18:25
cpcareyi put ccarey by mistake XD18:25
cpcareyhaha sorry18:25
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fsufitchLumiere: ping19:02
th1amenesis: This is timely:
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Lumierefsufitch: hi19:14
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Lumieremattva01: can you help them with anything they need on nhs.yhspatriot.net19:16
fsufitchLumiere: hi19:16
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fsufitchLumiere: do you have a cando Data.fs i could use?19:16
mattva01you already have accounts?19:17
mattva01or no?19:17
Lumierefsufitch: cpcarey has admin19:17
Lumierehe just needs to sudo su nhs19:17
fsufitchLumiere: the problem was that he scp'd the files from his comp to the server19:17
mattva01lol i just noticed that as you typed it19:17
fsufitchand python apparently got corrupted in the process19:17
mattva01let me check19:18
mattva01works for me19:18
fsufitchworks for him not :-P19:19
fsufitchanyway, do u have a CanDo Data.fs i could use?19:20
Lumiereoh yes19:20
mattva01am I still needed?19:20
Lumieremattva01: don't poof too hard19:20
Lumierenot sure what they'll need19:20
mattva01i have to get on the bus to go take a certification test in 30 minutes19:21
cpcarey_so when i'm ready to make the transition, i change to user nhs19:21
Lumierecpcarey: yea, nhs is where it should run19:21
Lumierefsufitch: where do you want it19:21
fsufitchLumiere: email or someplace online19:22
Lumierefsufitch: I can't put it anywhere insecure19:22
Lumiereit has live student data19:22
fsufitchthen email19:22
Lumierehow about your devel instance19:22
fsufitchdev instance is on my home computer19:22
fsufitchi could give you ssh to it19:23
fsufitchso you can just scp it there19:23
LumiereI meant your tjtalk one19:23
fsufitchthat one's been down apparently19:23
Lumierethe dns is19:23
fsufitchjust scp it to jstraw@home.n2yo.net19:24
fsufitchyour password is that long yellow fruit19:24
fsufitchoptimally do a passwd while ur there19:24
fsufitchi see :)19:25
fsufitchannd now it's in my secure home dir19:27
fsufitchand jstraw doesnt exist anymore :)19:27
LumiereI was going to dump an ssh key and change the password to gobbeldy gook :)19:27
Lumierebut not existing is better19:28
fsufitchhaving my home comp on ssh is so useful tho19:29
fsufitchsocks proxy for getting around pesky website blocks? yay!19:29
fsufitchi can view facebook in school :-P19:29
mattva01ssh -D ?19:31
mattva01ok i have to go19:31
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Lumierefsufitch: ssh on port 443?19:33
LumiereI am going home19:33
fsufitchLumiere: i have to enable 443, right now it depends on 22 being open19:35
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fsufitchLumiere: ping19:46
fsufitchthe manager password for the Data.fs you gave me is unfriendly19:47
fsufitchbecause it's live :(19:47
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