IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2009-02-17

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jelknerignas: good morning!16:18
jelkneri was surprised to learn that you celebrate president's day in lituania ;-)16:18
ignasjelkner: :P16:19
jelknerth1a: what's on today's agenda?16:19
jelkneri would like to add something16:19
mgedminwhat do the USians celebrate on Feb 16?16:19
jelknermgedmin: president's day16:20
ignas is not saying anything about US president's day16:20
ignasbut it mentions Lithuanian independence day ;)16:20
jelknerwe used to celebrate the birthdays of george washington (in january) and abraham lincoln (in february)16:20
jelknerthey combined them into "president's day" to make room for martin luther king day16:21
jelkner(in january)16:21
mgedminwhen is Obama's birthday?16:21
jelknergood question16:21
jstrawhi all16:21
jelknerso, th1a, you here?16:21
jstrawcheck wikipedia16:21
jstrawjelkner: 3pm meeting in your room16:21
jelknerjstraw: great!16:22
jstrawjelkner: initial meeting of the _unofficial_ instructional support sub-committee ;)16:22
jelknerdwelsh just told me16:23
jelkneri am ready and eager16:23
jelknerto participate16:23
jelknerthey are coming off an incredible two days in richmod16:23
jelknerthe cando love fest continues...16:23
jelknerthat's what i want to get on today's agenda16:23
jelknerthe start of a discussion of core academic integration into the system16:24
jelknerand a look at what resources we have to do that by next fall16:24
jelknerwhat makes me so happy about this development is that it means schooltool will be playing a real role in reforming education in virginia16:25
jelknerit will now empower us to change the way we teach16:25
jelknerand that, of course, is what it should be able to do16:26
jelknerwe want to do project based, interdisciplinary education16:26
jelknerto break down the "academic silos" in which curriculum is currently held hostage16:27
th1aIt has never been clear to me what the difference between competencies and standards are from a system perspective other than being able to track scores longitudinally.16:28
jelknerso we need a way to track what mathematics students are learning in a carpentry class16:28
jelknerby next year, virginia doe has given us the green light to add core academic tracking to cando16:28
jelknerby next year, i want to work side by side with the math and science teachers16:29
jelknerand for all of us to be able to evaluate our students together16:29
jelknerso we think about the whole student16:29
jstrawjelkner: did we actually get a full green light from wright?16:29
jelknerand what they can and need to learn to do16:29
jelknerdave said we have a green light16:30
jelknerwe can talk more about that at 3 today16:30
jstrawI wonder who gave the light16:30
jelknerin any case, we want to do that at gctaa16:30
jstrawjelkner: after we get through the ssz issues16:30
jelknerand jim and i will start thinking about it now16:30
jelknerjstraw: good point16:30
jelknerno problem16:30
th1aWhat about the odfse question?16:30
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jelknergovernor's career and technical academy in arlington (gctaa)16:31
replaceafillgood morning everybody16:31
th1aGood morning replaceafill.16:31
jstrawssz is Matt and my server area16:31
jstrawthe 'Student Server Zone'16:31
jstrawbecaues that sounds 100x better then Student DMZ :)16:32
jelknerth1a: (so, did you just pull odfse out of your hat, or did you have something in mind that it stands for?)16:32
th1aAnyhow, I don't know what would need to be added to CanDo other than keeping track of past evaluations of a standard/competency.16:33
th1ajelkner: It was a joke.16:33
jelkneri know16:33
th1aSo do you think you'll get money to develop this this year?16:34
jstrawif they want it... I bet they pay for it16:36
th1aGood morning everyone.16:36
th1aaelkner is sick.16:37
jstrawohayo gozaimasu minna-san ;)16:37
jstrawaelkner is always sick?16:37
jelknerth1a: dwelsh and i were just talking about that16:37
jelknerit is our job to lock that down now16:37
jelknerso we can keep the whole team working on schooltool and moving forward16:38
jelknerwe will need to budget for the new features16:38
jelknerwe want them by september16:38
jelknerand richmond even agreed to restructure the compency data structure to accomodate the changes16:38
jelknerdwelsh should report more on that later16:39
jelknerbut it all looks good from our end16:39
jelknerthey really had a wonderful training session last week16:39
jelknerand the teachers and administrators were very happy with cando16:39
th1aWeird.  You don't hear that too often about professional development for administrative software.16:40
th1aWe must be doing something right.16:40
jelknerok, i'm finished16:41
jelkneri just want us to start thinking about the who and how (and how much) of all this16:41
jelkneri know schooltool 1.0 comes first16:42
jelknerbut as soon as that is done we need to hit the ground running on these new changes16:42
th1aThank you jelkner.  It doesn't seem to me that you'll need much help from us if you can keep paying Chris and Filip.16:42
jelknerth1a: i don't think that is the case16:42
jelknerwe will need professional development work on this to start *before* summer16:43
jelknerso it seems replaceafill and/or aelkner will be needed16:43
th1aignas: How are you?16:44
ignasth1a: fine thank you16:45
ignasth1a: reviewing everything and working on contacts at the moment16:45
ignaswill merge/integrate/comment on everything some time soonish16:45
ignasand then will merge it to trunk after I will be done with evolution scripts16:45
ignasthat's pretty much it16:46
ignasmost of my comments will be directed personally to the contributors ;)16:46
th1aSounds good.  Did you enjoy the rest of your stay in DC?16:46
ignasyeah, was very nice16:47
ignasoh, did you get the invoice thing16:47
th1aYes, thanks.16:48
ignashope it's readable enough16:48
th1aMy task for the day is a assembling all that crap and sending in the invoices.16:48
th1aI'm actually going to be in Pittsburgh visiting friends and family the rest of the week, so I'll be mostly afk.16:49
ignasth1a: we'll have to come up with a precise list of fixes/features we want to get done for april release16:51
ignassome time soonish16:51
th1aWhat's yvl's status?  Is he feeling better?16:53
ignasth1a: yes he is16:55
ignasth1a: at the moment he is in a meeting discussing our internal projects16:55
ignashe said he should resume working on schooltool tomorrow i think16:56
ignasas he needs some time to get back on track16:56
ignasif he won't know what to do I can give him some post sprint cleanup tasks16:57
ignashe was supposed to work on the section resource booking, but as Chris did it, he can probably polish some edges on that functionality16:58
th1aJust make sure it gives a reasonable error report when there is a conflict.16:58
th1aThe person doing the section booking will usually be a manager or administrator, so if they know what the conflict is, they will probably be able to resolve it.16:59
* ignas is worried about conflicts a bit17:00
ignasi mean - the initial idea was to skip it altogether, but as Chris did it, we can use it17:00
ignasbut i'll need some speed tests done17:00
ignasas it potentially can be a huge resource hog17:00
th1aYes.  Check it out.17:00
th1aIt isn't a frequent operation though.17:00
th1aSo if it takes 10-15 seconds it isn't the end of the world.17:01
th1aCan yvl help you with the indexing stuff?  Where does that stand?17:01
ignasthat is stalled at the moment17:01
ignasi want to merge everything first17:02
ignasthen find out what else do we want done for release17:02
ignasand see what we can do in that time17:02
th1aHow important do you think the indexing is for the release?17:02
ignashmm, it would improve overall quality of the application, but is not crucial for "getting things done (tm)"17:03
ignasI can just add a simple old style index for contacts and it will work well enough17:05
th1aIs it something that will cause evolution problems later, or does it just change views?17:05
ignasthe group indexes that would be very nice to have are kind of tricky though17:05
ignasth1a: evolution - yes, evolution problems - don't think so17:05
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th1aThe foremost problem in my head is still organizing reports.17:07
th1aSo that when I have, say, a report card, I can run it from an individual student, or a group, or a section, or a filtered set.17:07
th1a(search results)17:07
ignasfrom my point of view - it is easy to change/fix as we go, as it only touches the UI17:08
th1aYes -- basically we're going to be writing a lot of reports post release -- and it would be nice to be able to crank them out without fussing with the code to access them.17:09
ignasit would be nice, but we can live with fussing until we understand what we are doing17:09
ignasanyone can do fussing ;)17:09
th1aWell, the report card generation is the next remaining loose end.17:10
th1aWhich I've discussed in detail with aelkner.17:10
th1aWhen he's better he's going to write up a plan for implementing it.17:10
th1aI guess basically I have to go over what we've got in detail once you merge the sprint changes.17:12
ignasand look at all the user requests/ cando comments and long standing bugs17:12
ignasto set the ones that we want to fix/ implement17:12
th1areplaceafill: How was your trip back?17:17
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replaceafillth1a, great :)17:18
replaceafillth1a, no problems at all17:18
ignas116 lines of zcml, 196 lines of python and 16 lines of templates to add a top level content type to schooltool17:18
th1aignas: We need Grok.17:19
ignasyeah, would probably save a few lines :)17:19
th1aActually, replaceafill, that's not a bad project for you.17:20
th1aTry using some Grok objects in SchoolTool.17:20
replaceafillth1a, interesting17:20
replaceafilllike start removing zcml?17:20
th1aIt is very important in the long run.17:20
ignasa nice tricky task ;)17:21
th1aNot changing SchoolTool core, but writing a component that is based on the Grok objects so you don't need so much ZCML.17:21
replaceafillignas, i got z3c.form working in grok :)17:21
ignasreplaceafill: nice17:21
replaceafillignas, z3c.form is really cool17:21
th1aBasically, in the long run we need to make it easier for people to start writing code for SchoolTool, and that means Grok.17:22
replaceafillignas, i was wondering, should i change my external activities implementation to use z3c.form?17:22
ignasas far as form libraries go - yeah it is kind of cool :)17:22
th1aHm... so we'd use grok.component?17:24
ignasand grokcore.security17:24
ignasand still some things need investigation into how compatible they are with schooltool17:24
ignasand also we might want to use martian directly to add some grokkers17:25
ignasfor schooltool security policy17:25
ignasschooltool viewlets17:25
ignasand schooltool pluggable traversers17:25
replaceafillthere's a grokcore.viewlet package17:25
ignasyeah but we are doing custom viewlets17:26
ignasbecause we need some i18n stuff, so we should see that everything works the way we expect17:26
replaceafilloh yeah, the navigationViewlet you explained to me17:26
ignasit might work out better than it used to though17:27
ignasas code with _() is picked up by i18n automatically17:27
ignasso we might not need any custom stuff at all17:27
ignasotoh it would be nice to add something like schooltool.container baseclass for containers17:28
ignasand get all the viewlets, traversers, absolute url adapters and relevant things registered automatically17:28
ignasas soon as you declare something as a container17:28
ignas(though that is the long term plan ;)17:28
ignasalso this will add some packaging work, as we will have to release grokcore components to ubuntu17:31
th1aSo perhaps this is something you could investigate replaceafill.17:37
ignashe can17:37
* ignas just looked at it a bit17:37
ignasgrokcore.component usage is easy17:37
ignasgrokcore.view shuts down the default macros17:38
ignasand schooltool loses all the menu items and all the navigation in some views17:38
ignasok, not some views17:38
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:38
ignasin views that use grokcore.view in the simplest way ;)17:38
th1aHave a great week!  Get ready for the home stretch!17:39
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ignasreplaceafill: lp:~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool_dc_sprint_integration17:40
ignasis the branch that has contacts17:40
ignasso if you will be playing with grok17:40
ignasyou might as well try grokifying contacts17:40
ignasthey are pretty straightforward at the moment17:40
ignasreplaceafill: just add "grokcore.component" and "grokcore.view" to setup.py17:42
ignasand relevant zcml includes in src/schooltool/contacts/configure.zcml17:42
replaceafillignas, how can i use the contact module in a schooltool instance? just add to the school.zcml file?17:44
ignasyeah that will work17:45
ignasi'll add to our stapp2008 configuration before releasing17:45
jstrawignas: shouldn't that be stapp2009? :)17:51
ignasjstraw: maybe17:52
ignasjstraw: how is your work on multiinstance deployment ?17:52
jstrawthe only big issue is ssl support for namedvhosts17:53
jstrawwhich is non-existant17:53
ignasis it packaged as a deb?17:53
jstrawit's svn17:53
ignascan we replace schooltool-common and schooltool-2008 and schooltool-2007 with your scripts17:53
ignaswhen will we do that then?17:54
jstrawyes, but you'll want to go over that17:54
jstrawand make sure that they do what you want17:54
jstraw(also, you'll want kill me over my backup)17:54
jstrawcause I never learned pep-8 or any style rules for pythong17:55
jstrawand I never really went back over it and learned it17:55
ignasjstraw: so it's just a monolithic set of scripts to do what you need? or are these scripts "put into /etc/init.d/" ready?18:00
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fsufitchhi everyone21:36
fsufitchth1a: ping21:36
th1afsufitch: hey.21:37
fsufitchth1a: did you get my invoice?21:38
fsufitchis it detailed enough / does it need other info?21:39
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th1aHm.  Actually, we need all the bank info on the invoice.21:41
th1aYou did this before didn't you?21:41
fsufitchth1a: yes i did21:43
th1aYou need to include the same info you did before.21:43
fsufitchth1a: okay, i'll try to dig it up, though i dont remember if it was via email or not21:46
th1aI don't know how else you would have given it to me.21:47
th1aHm... I don't see it in my mail...21:49
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fsufitchnothing here either21:50
fsufitchjelkner: hi!21:50
jelknerhey man21:51
th1afsufitch: Are you sure we've paid you?21:51
fsufitchth1a: just tell me what you need and i can search it up when i get home tonight21:51
fsufitchth1a: no.21:51
th1aYeah, I don't think we have.21:51
fsufitchth1a: i do recall you asking me for an invoice before, but i *don't* recall getting that one in21:52
fsufitchand i have no idea when that was, so you have some volunteer time of mine :)21:52
fsufitchohh i think it was on the pycon sprint21:53
th1aOK, I sent you the numbers we need.21:54
fsufitchth1a: thanks21:55
fsufitchth1a: i replied with the info21:57
fsufitchhooray for me carrying that stuff around in my pocket :D21:57
th1aPut that on the invoice.21:58
th1aAlso, try to GOogle your swift code.21:58
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