IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2009-01-12

*** jelkner has joined #schooltool00:33
*** toxygen_ is now known as toxygen00:47
*** jelkner has quit IRC01:46
*** fsufitch has quit IRC03:06
*** wgrant has quit IRC03:06
*** fsufitch has joined #schooltool03:06
*** wgrant has joined #schooltool03:06
*** fsufitch has quit IRC03:07
*** fsufitch has joined #schooltool03:07
*** fsufitch has quit IRC08:45
*** fsufitch has joined #schooltool08:47
*** balor has joined #schooltool12:17
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool12:56
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool13:05
*** fsufitch has quit IRC13:22
*** yvl has joined #schooltool15:20
*** th1a has joined #schooltool15:35
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool15:43
jelknerth1a: good morning!15:52
jelknerwhat time to you arrive today?15:53
jelknerand... can we please put logistics for the feb sprint high on today's agenda?\15:53
jelkneras you know, replaceafill has his visa15:53
jelknerand is ready to purchase a ticket15:54
jelkneryvl: good morning!15:54
jelkneri have a question for you and ignas15:54
yvlmorning Jeff!15:55
th1ajelkner: What kind of logistics?15:55
jelknerdo you have any plans to visit frederiksburg while you are here?15:55
*** ignas has joined #schooltool15:55
jelknermorning ignas!15:55
ignasjelkner: morning15:56
jelknerso, ignas and yvl, any trip to zope.corp in your february visit plans?15:56
jelknertoo bad15:56
jelkneri was hoping replaceafill would have a chance to visit down there15:57
jelknersince i know that you have taken the opportunity on your trips here to visit there in the past15:57
jelknersome other time then15:58
jelknerbtw.  great news about launchpad!15:58
*** Aiste has quit IRC15:58
jelknerignas and yvl: when are you two flying in?16:00
jelknerwhen are you flying back?16:00
yvlgood question.16:00
yvlwe don't have the plane tickets yet.16:00
jelknerth1a: that kind of logistics!16:00
yvlor valid passports, at the moment :)16:00
ignaswe have valid passports16:01
ignasjust that they won't let us into the US with them16:01
jelknerouch! why?16:01
yvlthat should be fixed in ~ a week16:01
yvl(they expire in less than 6 months. in 5 months.)16:01
yvlso we're changing our passports now16:02
th1aAh yes.16:02
th1aThe pre-expiration expiration.16:02
* th1a is going to take a shower.16:02
jelknerwhat about our meeting?16:03
jelknerare we not having it this morning?16:03
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool16:04
ignaswe are having, but i'ts in 30 minutes (25 to be precise)16:04
jelknerthanks, ignas16:05
jelkneri'll come back then16:05
jelknerin the mean time, since replaceafill is about to purchase his ticket, he was thinking of arriving on tuesday, feb 3 (at night) and leaving on the morning of monday, feb 916:06
jelknerthat gives him 2 days (wednesday and thursday) to see some of dc before the sprint16:07
jelknerdoes that sound about right?16:07
*** aelkner has joined #schooltool16:10
jelknermorning aelkner16:12
jelknerso, the william penn's curse seems to be truly lifted16:13
jelknerthough they will still have to get through baltimore ;-)16:16
ignasjelkner: can you give us Lithuanians more context?16:17
jelknerno major philadelphia sports team has one a major championship in the last 20 years16:17
jelknerphiladelphia had a law on the books for a few hundred years that no building could be taller than the statue of philadelphia's founder, william penn16:18
jelknerwhich sat on top of city hall16:18
jelknerthey changed that law about 20 years ago16:19
jelknerand the story is that philadelphia sports teams have been suffering ever since16:19
jelknerthen this past year they put a new statue of william penn on top of the tallest building in the city16:19
jelknerand the phillies won the world series16:20
jelknernow the eagles are heading to the nfc championship16:20
jelknerthe extra funny part is that the new statue is so high up that no one can see it16:22
jelkner(it is too small to see anyway)16:22
jelknerthey put it there just to end the curse16:23
yvlwell, whatever works ;)16:24
th1aIt will take more than that to get past the Steelers.16:28
*** jstraw has joined #schooltool16:29
aelknerwe already dispatched them pretty easily this year16:29
jstraw'morning all16:29
jelknerth1a: you mean the ravens16:29
aelknerno, the steelers16:29
th1aWe may have an all Pennsylvania Super Bowl.  Not to look ahead or anything.16:30
aelknerwould be awfully cool16:30
th1aAnyhow, getting down to business.16:30
th1aaelkner: What is up?16:30
jelkneror a Boswash Super Bowl16:30
aelkneri worked on the cando bug this weekend16:31
aelknerbut i haven't finished yet16:31
aelknerit's tricky to reproduce in tests16:31
aelknerbut i did start by changing the test data to include a group with double-space in it16:32
aelknerand readjusted the tests accordingly16:32
aelknerbut for some reason, the tests aren't failing where the live server fails16:33
jstrawwe have a group with 2 spaces in it?16:33
aelkneryes, that's the bug16:33
jstraw(are you sure that it is 2 spaces and not a space and some control character?16:33
aelknerapparently, the xml file had two spaces in it for that group16:33
aelknerno, it's two spaces16:33
aelknerproblem is, the browser won't send the double-space back to the server16:34
jstrawurl-encode it16:35
jstrawit should be urlencoded anyways16:35
jstraw(' ' -> '%20'16:35
th1aCan we just filter those out on input?16:35
jstrawth1a: not really16:35
th1aOK... moving on...16:35
th1aaelkner: There are several gradebook bugs already in LaunchPad assigned to you.16:36
aelknerso that's all i dealt with since last we spoke16:36
aelkneri saw16:36
aelkneralso, there's that sla wizard feature16:36
th1ayvl: Are you working on SchoolTool this week?16:37
yvlyes th1a16:37
yvlI'm kind of out of tasks16:37
yvlor from the other point of view, I have several...16:37
yvlbut still, it would be nice to know if there are some higher priority ones16:38
yvlfor the next week, I have:16:38
yvlsprint planning with Ignas16:38
yvlvarious bugs you assigned me16:38
yvlgeneric report headers, etc.16:39
yvland that's it, as far as I remember16:39
yvlas for the last week...16:39
yvlI did the tabbed intervention view for SLA16:39
yvlmerged CanDo active branch to trunk16:39
yvland wrote some short notes on importing student information16:40
yvl(along with CSV field restrictions)16:40
yvland that's it.16:40
yvlth1a, do you want to put priorities on tasks for next week, or should I choose as I go?16:42
th1aOK.  The things on your to do list are things that need to be done.  I've been distracted by this various travel coming up.  When I get back I'll have to tie myself to a chair with the gradebook and write some bugs and reports.16:42
th1aIt would be good for you and ignas to work on the persons plan.16:42
th1aEnough to push the discussion forward another step.16:43
yvlby persons plan you mean demographics?16:44
yvlOK, will do.16:44
jstrawI will svn switch today or tomorrow I think16:44
yvljust please, please test :)16:44
th1aIn terms of things that need sustained planning and coding, that's the big one.16:44
th1ademographics, that is.16:44
th1aAlthough hopefully not too sustained.  ;-)16:45
yvlespecially the planning part? ;)16:45
th1aOK, ignas?16:46
ignasth1a: as soon as we'll know what we're doing - we'll stop16:46
*** dwelsh has joined #schooltool16:46
ignassome post holiday cleanup stuff, made buildbot green again, made sure all the releases are passing their tests and are properly configured.16:47
ignaslooked a bit at xls import/export, but mostly spent time planning our upcomming sprint with help from Justas16:47
dwelshwe need to start writing tests to make sure that CanDo functionality is not lost when SchoolTool makes changes!16:47
th1adwelsh crashes in.16:48
ignaswe did some brainstorming, and I have some ideas/possible ways of doing stuff that you want16:48
dwelsher... good morning16:48
ignasdwelsh: hi16:48
aelknerdwelsh: what do you mean specifically16:48
* jstraw wonders too16:48
ignasth1a: i'll be looking at how much time which thing might take, look at the code and see what we can do before the spring and during the sprint16:48
ignasas I don't really want to be exploring technical possibilities during the sprint16:49
jstrawdwelsh: need to talk with you for a minute today... once the phones are working again16:49
ignasso this week i'd like to do some precise estimation of things we are going to do during the sprint16:49
th1aignas: OK.16:50
ignasthis should give us an idea of what we should have working after the sprint16:50
ignasi'll send you and email as soon as I'll have it more concrete16:51
ignasso you could review it and maybe reprioritize some things16:51
th1aSounds good.16:51
th1ayvl: We really do need the custom header by the way.16:52
th1aJust a simple one.16:52
yvlgot it16:53
jstrawimo, just enough to get the school name and something that says it is from schooltool in such a way that it is instantly recognized from the print try16:53
jstrawerr tray16:53
th1aNo, I mean more like a letterhead.16:54
jstrawI pick up enough printouts from different SIS's that it really helps when I can quickly find it16:54
jstrawth1a: that's what I was getting at16:54
th1aEither way it is a standard bit we need.16:55
th1aNow, what was the problem that dwelsh ran into exactly?16:56
jstrawlol figures welsh would talk then run16:57
th1ajelkner: Do we need to discuss logistics more?16:58
aelknerjstraw: it fiigures all right16:58
ignashmm, maybe, i mean - what address are Justas and I going to stay in16:58
ignas(they ask that in airplanes)16:58
jelknerth1a: i don't think so16:58
jstrawyou can try calling him, but APS's phone network is down16:59
jstrawso getting through might be hard16:59
th1aI have to make reservations at the Days Inn in Arlington.16:59
aelknerignas wants to know the name and address of the hotel16:59
jelknerignas: i'll send that to you16:59
th1aThanks for passing that along for me aelkner.16:59
dwelshwelsh busts in again... where are we on getting the VA pilot issues together:17:00
aelknermy message was late17:00
dwelsh1) data format17:00
dwelsh2) merged CanDo branch17:00
dwelsh3) any other issues?17:00
jstraw2 is done17:00
th1aYes, where are we with 1)?17:00
aelknerjstraw: let us know when you've done the svn switch17:00
jstrawI need ignas to resend the xls17:00
jstrawI cannot find it17:00
ignasjstraw: what xls?17:00
ignasjstraw: why xls, you got custom csv17:00
ignasin  cando17:00
jstrawignas: csv is just people17:01
jstrawxls would get courses and sections17:01
ignasoh, but when I asked what more data you need17:01
yvljstraw: Re: CanDo Pilot and Rollout Issues on 01/09/200917:01
ignasi got an answer "student number"17:01
dwelsharen't we talking an spreadsheet format (Excel spreadsheet)?17:01
ignasso ok, i'll send you the xls17:01
yvlit's the second time I sent it17:01
jstrawerr *goes to look*17:01
yvlsorry, now I see17:01
yvljstraw, it's only student CSV17:02
ignasjstraw: ok, so Persons in CSV, Sections in an (Excel spreadsheet)17:02
jstrawdwelsh: that ok with you?17:02
ignasCourses in Excel too i guess17:03
* jstraw suggests that we ask for the person data in excel and then extract it and clear the person data17:03
th1aDoes CanDo already have other custom demographic fields?17:03
ignas(sections need Courses)17:03
ignasth1a: yeah, cando has some custom demographics fields, like student grading number17:03
dwelshjust two custom... ethnicity field and student testing #17:03
* th1a is confused as to why we wouldn't do this all in .xls.17:03
dwelshjustus added these in August 0817:03
dwelshI assume student demographics has a "current grade" field17:04
ignasth1a: if you want Justas to add the fields to the XLS17:05
ignasth1a: all you have to do is ask ;)17:05
dwelsh(in other news, welsh just got custom laser trifold brochure paper)17:05
th1adwelsh: Good.17:05
ignasth1a: at the moment there is a custom CSV import view for cando that is dealing with cando specific fields17:05
th1aIf it wouldn't be more than, say, a day of work it would be better to do it all through .xls.17:06
th1aWe're expecting other schools to use this.17:06
dwelshfor VA pilot, courses and sections will be created manually17:06
dwelshwe only need student demographics to be imported17:07
th1aOK, then I guess we can still do CSV.17:07
dwelshone user story for Alan, however, that would be very helpful, is that ability to batch-enroll using a set of student ids17:07
aelknerin the summer we cold move onto using xls17:07
dwelshthis has been requested a number of times by Arlington teachers17:08
aelknerdwelsh: add it to launchpad17:08
dwelshwill do17:09
dwelshaelkner, how are you coming with your bug involving comp group pulldown?17:09
yvldwelsh, by enrol you mean "assign students to sections"?17:09
aelknerdwelsh:  i'm half way there17:09
dwelshcorrect.  it's very tedious for teachers to have to keep adding students one at a time.17:10
dwelshsometimes they have six classes, with over 20 students per class17:10
yvldwelsh, ShoolTool xls importer allows you to do that17:10
ignasdwelsh: xls import can assign persons to sections (it does not matter how sections/courses/persons got into the system)17:10
dwelshok.  I will need a walk-through and test of this17:10
aelknerignas: is this xls assignment of students to sections in schooltool egg already?17:11
th1aIf you look at the sections tab of the import spreadsheet, you're 80% of the way there.17:12
ignasaelkner: yes, though in a not 100% foolproof way17:12
ignasaelkner: as in - you can break it17:12
ignaswell - provide an invalid student ID17:12
ignasfor example17:12
ignasand you will get a traceback17:12
aelknerinstead of an error message, right?17:13
ignasI am still in progress of adding various sanity checks17:13
ignasaelkner: yeah17:13
ignasso - if you know what you are doing17:13
aelknerideally, we do a draft run, right?17:13
ignasyou can accomplish what you want17:13
ignaswhy a draft run? we can catch errors, report them, and rollback the changes17:13
ignasif there were any errors17:13
ignassavepoints FTW17:13
th1aAh... so that's one reason our giant import will always take a fair amount of memory.17:14
th1aFor sample data.17:14
aelknermy sla imports use a draft run17:14
ignasaelkner: do you know how to use savepoints?17:14
aelknernot yet17:15
ignasth1a: not really, it's mostly because we are doing timetables for 2 years17:15
ignasth1a: i am going to refactor the spreadsheet17:15
ignasth1a: and make it easier to "remove" sections for terms you don't want17:15
aelkneri got the did draft runs because that was what schooltool was doing17:15
ignasth1a: so users can just remove 3 sheets and only get 6 months of sections + timetables17:15
ignasaelkner: well - it works too17:16
ignasaelkner: i am going to do "verification" and "import" steps later, instead of just an import step17:16
aelknerthat's was i was getting at17:16
ignasaelkner: but import + rollback if there are errors is the easyest way to do it17:16
aelkneri see17:17
ignasbut verification is not really going to share much code with import17:17
aelknerthat's more up to date technology17:17
dwelshthis bug has been entered as #316412, importance "high"17:18
dwelshI've noted the xls importer in the comments17:18
*** alga has quit IRC17:18
th1aOK, so everyone has some work on their plate, then.17:19
ignasdwelsh: you want teachers doing that?17:19
dwelshyes; I would like for this feature to be accessible to them.17:20
dwelshin the future, it would be nice to be able to import all courses, sections and their students.17:20
ignasdwelsh: in that case a simple view that allows you to enter student ids manually is a better alternative to xls import17:20
dwelshbut this is *very* difficult to get our student info system to do with CanDo17:21
dwelshyes; I envision being able to cut and paste a commas separated list of student id's17:21
th1aIt is a very non-standard use case though.17:22
th1aAnyhow, dwelsh and I need to discuss the brochure.17:23
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:23
th1aHave a great week gentlemen!17:23
th1adwelsh: So we're roping in your sister?17:23
dwelshjust wrote you.  she will work on it starting Wed for Congressional staff visit in 2 weeks.17:25
dwelshit's you and me, buddy, tonight and tomorrow am.17:25
dwelshif you can get together language, logos in meantime, that would help.17:25
th1aSo... we're using your computer?17:25
th1aI do this stuff in Pages on the Mac.17:26
dwelshyes, unless you have made a ton of progress in Pages already.17:27
dwelshmain goal for today is to finalise langague and elements.17:27
dwelshtonight and tomorrow we can polish off layout17:27
dwelsh(replace s with z in finalize)17:28
th1aFine with me.17:28
*** aelkner_ has joined #schooltool17:29
dwelshhave we agreed on the data important format and procedure for VA state pilot17:29
dwelshI need to get Lee Capps this info soon.17:29
*** aelkner has quit IRC17:29
dwelshto give him time to get it out to the eight school systems17:29
dwelshso he can get the data back and get everything setup by the training17:30
dwelshwhich now is set for Feb. 12 and Feb. 13 (different group each day)17:30
th1ayvl and ignas: Where did we end up with that?17:30
* th1a doesn't understand how this became so difficult.17:31
th1aWas something sent to jstraw?17:31
dwelshwelsh also is wondering...17:31
dwelshhow many develpers does it take to...17:32
yvlth1a, I sent the template twice17:32
dwelshto whom???17:33
yvldwelsh, th1a, jstraw17:33
dwelshdid I get that???17:33
yvland ignas17:33
dwelshI'm looking17:33
yvldwelsh, you even replied :)17:33
yvlmy email on 2009-01-0917:34
ignasCSV files are tricky, they don't look like well - files ;)17:34
yvlRe: CanDo pilot and rollout issues17:34
yvlignas, true :)17:34
yvltwo attached files: student_import_template.csv17:34
yvland student_import_format.txt17:34
dwelshOK.  I see a document "short guide to CanDo student importer"17:35
dwelshis this what we are going on???17:35
ignasjstraw: can you see the files?17:35
jstrawI have those 2 files yes17:35
yvlcool :)17:35
yvlare they clear enough, or should I try to elaborate more on them?17:36
* jstraw can't look at them this morning17:36
yvlor the import procedure, or whatever?..17:36
yvlplease email me if anything :)17:36
dwelshOK.  looks pretty clear to me.17:37
dwelshjstraw:  can you check this too, as any problems will come back to haunt us, eight times over17:38
jstrawI will this afternoon17:38
dwelshI will send these two docs to Lee Capps to get is feedback, too17:38
dwelshthanks, ignas.  please accept my apologies for having missed it.17:39
ignasdwelsh: it's yvl who was sending it ;)17:40
yvlno problem, dwelsh - I understand that your'e quite busy :)17:40
jstrawunderstatement of the year17:41
dwelshsurviving... with your help!17:42
*** balor has quit IRC17:52
dwelshlooking at the data format, the only problem may be the date field17:53
dwelshthe default of APS' student info system is MM-DD-YYYY17:54
dwelshI assume this is the default in almost all of the U.S.17:54
dwelshwe may want to go with that default17:54
dwelshth1a:  what do you think?17:54
yvldwelsh, I can implement it when we know for sure17:55
dwelshthat's good to know.  I'll ask Lee Capps what he thinks.17:55
jstrawfixing dates in excel is easy17:55
jstrawjust tell it to output YYYY-MM-DD17:55
dwelsh2nd question:  will the optional info, if omitted, just look like the follwing:17:55
jstrawand... I bet you that the actual default is ISO standard17:56
jstrawbut the display standard is MM-DD-YY17:56
ignasjstraw: they are going to be creating CSV's17:56
jstrawignas: from xls more then likely17:56
ignasthat's true17:56
jstrawso let xls deal with the date issues17:57
dwelshso the field in an Excel spreadsheet will just be blank17:57
dwelshand the importer will allow for that on the optional fields17:57
jstrawa blank string is a blank string17:57
yvldwelsh, you missed one comma: 988734,David,Welsh,7-12-1962,,,,10138374917:58
yvlbut in general, it's correct17:58
*** ignas has quit IRC17:59
yvlok guys18:00
yvlgotta go :)18:00
jstrawenjoy your evening18:00
jstrawhappy 6pm? ;)18:00
yvlyes, thanks :)18:00
yvlemail me if anything18:00
yvlproductive day to you all ;)18:00
*** yvl has quit IRC18:01
*** wgrant has quit IRC18:12
*** jelkner has quit IRC18:26
*** dwelsh has quit IRC18:30
*** wgrant has joined #schooltool19:47
*** jstraw has quit IRC20:04
*** wgrant has quit IRC20:39
*** aelkner_ has quit IRC21:16
*** mgedmin has quit IRC21:21
*** jcrowley has joined #schooltool21:22
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool21:24
*** rbra has joined #schooltool21:26
*** elarson has joined #schooltool21:26
*** elarson has quit IRC21:51
*** rbra has quit IRC21:55
*** jelkner has quit IRC21:55
*** elarson has joined #schooltool21:55
*** jcrowley has quit IRC21:55
*** elarson has quit IRC21:57
*** aelkner has joined #schooltool21:58
*** wgrant has joined #schooltool22:40

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!