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| nubae | hi there, I've managed to install 2008.4, is this the most up to date version? The features seem quite rudimentary still, almost all revolving around a calendar. Any ideas when things like report cards and grading for students will be implemented? | 13:45 |
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| ignas | nubae: well - i am working on school years at the moment | 14:48 |
| ignas | gradebook is not enabled by default in 2008.04 | 14:49 |
| ignas | only journal which is a gradebook/attendance hybrid thing | 14:49 |
| ignas | used in eastern europe | 14:49 |
| ignas | and you might want to look at http://book.schooltool.org/htmlhelp/individual.html | 14:50 |
| ignas | for some kind of overview | 14:50 |
| nubae | nice I hadn't seen that page before, I just wrote a little howto on installing schooltool from the bzr repos, which is not so trivial... took me a while to fix all dependencies and versions | 14:54 |
| nubae | for it working on intrepid that is | 14:55 |
| ignas | you mean like this http://book.schooltool.org/htmlhelp/dev_sandbox.html ? | 15:19 |
| ignas | if you want to update anything there | 15:19 |
| ignas | or anywhere actually | 15:19 |
| ignas | you can checkout code from here https://code.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/ | 15:20 |
| ignas | https://code.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/users-guide - is the book.schooltool.org | 15:20 |
| ignas | the [version] bit in buildout.cfg is not interpid related, i just don't have the time to update all of them at the moment | 15:21 |
| nubae | I'm actually working on a hybrid XS (olpc) and LTSP server that should include schooltool, it is a prototype for all Austrian schools | 15:21 |
| nubae | I'll set it up on intrepid and update where relevant | 15:22 |
| nubae | I didnt know those links existed, so thanks... | 15:22 |
| ignas | nubae: you are aware that 2008.04 is alpha | 15:22 |
| ignas | and I am working on 2008.10 | 15:22 |
| ignas | (a.k.a. beta) | 15:22 |
| ignas | at the moment | 15:22 |
| ignas | got 2 weeks left until interpid release to finish it :/ | 15:22 |
| ignas | but - we are getting school years! | 15:23 |
| nubae | ok, so there will be a intrepid schooltool release? | 15:23 |
| nubae | thats good | 15:23 |
| ignas | which kind of improves stuff | 15:23 |
| ignas | yeah, i just had no time to make interpid packages yet | 15:23 |
| ignas | but i will definitely do that | 15:23 |
| ignas | and put them in our PPA | 15:23 |
| nubae | I've looked at many many products, and non of them is simple enough, only schooltool comes close | 15:23 |
| ignas | well - schooltool still needs a lot of things done... but, we're working on it ;) | 15:24 |
| nubae | I understand its in use in some pilots right now... how is that going? | 15:24 |
| ignas | well - CanDo people seem happy with it | 15:24 |
| ignas | don't know about SLA | 15:24 |
| ignas | i am working on the core packages, so didn't interact with users that much last 6 months | 15:25 |
| nubae | is 2008.10 functional? ie... is there a snapshot that I can build to checkout? or should I wait 2 weeks? | 15:26 |
| ignas | well - if you are willing to redo your database (there is no evolution yet) | 15:27 |
| ignas | then - https://code.launchpad.net/~ignas/schooltool/schooltool_date_management | 15:27 |
| nubae | its just a test infrastructure at the moment, so I dont mind | 15:27 |
| nubae | but I'd like to present the most feature full schooltool to the ministry of education here | 15:28 |
| nubae | as long as it doesnt crash in the middle of the presentation :D | 15:28 |
| ignas | hmm, in that case - avoid deleting school years and terms ;) | 15:30 |
| ignas | at least today | 15:30 |
| ignas | i will have that resolved tomorrow or wednesday ;) | 15:31 |
| nubae | presentation is in a week | 15:32 |
| ignas | hmm, in a week we'll either have evolution for old data or schooltool.gradebook enabled (or at least enableable easily) | 15:36 |
| ignas | or both | 15:36 |
| ignas | depends on how well i'll work during the weekend | 15:37 |
| nubae | one more question... does schooltool have openid integrated? Would be nice to have single sign on | 15:40 |
| ignas | nope, we can do CAS though | 15:41 |
| ignas | http://www.ja-sig.org/products/cas/ | 15:41 |
| ignas | and CAS servers (at least the ruby (http://code.google.com/p/rubycas-server/) one) can do at least LDAP and SQL, | 15:42 |
| ignas | maybe some more stuff too, can't recall now | 15:43 |
| nubae | I'll take a look at that, I really want moodle, schooltool, and user log on to work as one | 15:43 |
| nubae | and want to avoid LDAP | 15:43 |
| ignas | nubae: moodle does CAS too | 15:43 |
| nubae | cool | 15:43 |
| ignas | and if you set moodle and schooltool to use CAS, then you can configure your CAS server to use the thing that you need | 15:44 |
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| *** jstraw is now known as Lumiere | 16:23 | |
| Lumiere | zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | 16:23 |
| Lumiere | hi aelkner, ignas, jelkner | 16:24 |
| ignas | Lumiere: hi | 16:26 |
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| ignas | hi tom | 16:27 |
| ignas | *Tom | 16:27 |
| jelkner | good morning! | 16:27 |
| th1a | Good morning jelkner. | 16:27 |
| jelkner | can i get something on the end of the agenda this morning? | 16:28 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:28 |
| nubae | what is: schooltool.stapp2008spring/ | 16:28 |
| ignas | nubae: it is a school setup | 16:28 |
| ignas | a package that configures schooltool packages | 16:28 |
| ignas | in a predetermined way | 16:28 |
| th1a | jelkner: What? This is going to be an unusually busy meeting. | 16:28 |
| nubae | ok | 16:28 |
| ignas | like - enables schooltool.journal and schooltool.basicperson, but not schooltool.gradebook | 16:29 |
| ignas | nubae: now is meeting time, so you'll probably have to wait for it to end to ask more questions ;) | 16:29 |
| nubae | realised... sorry | 16:30 |
| th1a | hi ignas, jelkner, aelkner, Lumiere. Did we lose yvl? | 16:30 |
| th1a | Thanks nubae. | 16:30 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Lumiere | 16:30 | |
| jelkner | th1a: never mind then | 16:30 |
| ignas | th1a: yes, we lost him, i think he managed to send you an email before leaving though | 16:30 |
| jelkner | i just sent an email to the schooltool-dev list | 16:30 |
| jelkner | i'll bring this up later | 16:31 |
| *** Lumiere changes topic to "SchoolTool development | IRC logs at http://source.schooltool.org/irclogs/ | SchoolTool Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET, 9:30 EST) | Use http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool for pasting | Write more unit and functional tests! Yes, you! | Build Status: http://source.schooltool.org/buildbot" | 16:31 | |
| *** Lumiere sets mode: -o Lumiere | 16:31 | |
| th1a | OK. How far did we get by the end of the sprint? | 16:31 |
| th1a | Any progress after lunch? | 16:31 |
| th1a | aelkner, jelkner? | 16:32 |
| Lumiere | someone probably needs to poke aelkner | 16:32 |
| aelkner | i left for Jerset at about 2:00, so not much hapened after you left | 16:32 |
| jelkner | aelkner: you should answer that one | 16:32 |
| th1a | Also, did filip actually include a patch with his mail? I didn't see one. | 16:32 |
| th1a | OK, so here's what we got going then. | 16:33 |
| aelkner | i did n't get a patch from filip | 16:33 |
| th1a | Category weighting for gradebook. | 16:33 |
| th1a | That was Alan and Douglas. | 16:33 |
| th1a | There are still some edge cases we should file bugs for so we don't forget. | 16:33 |
| th1a | That is: handling removal of weighting values properly. | 16:34 |
| th1a | And... I forget. | 16:34 |
| th1a | Do you remember aelkner? | 16:34 |
| aelkner | oh, yes, the event hanlder | 16:34 |
| th1a | For what event? | 16:34 |
| th1a | Oh, making the column read-only. | 16:35 |
| aelkner | if a category is removed from the system | 16:35 |
| aelkner | then all references to t in the weights needs to be removed | 16:35 |
| th1a | Hm... you know, we probably don't want that. | 16:35 |
| th1a | It will break old grades, right? | 16:36 |
| th1a | I mean, we probably should not let you delete categories. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | we shouldn't allow a category to be released if | 16:36 |
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| Lumiere | yea, do not allow a category to be removed | 16:37 |
| th1a | Those are created by teachers, right? | 16:37 |
| * th1a is confused. | 16:37 | |
| aelkner | categories are maintained by the admin | 16:37 |
| th1a | Are categories system-wide? | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | in eschools plus... | 16:37 |
| aelkner | Manage -> Activity Categories | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | there are four preset categories | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | then teachers can add additional | 16:37 |
| th1a | Hi dwelsh. | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | good morning | 16:38 |
| th1a | Can categories be deleted now? | 16:38 |
| th1a | Anyhow, | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | will have to check | 16:38 |
| th1a | I'll look at that. | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | am guessing teacher added categories can be removed | 16:38 |
| th1a | Let's keep going. | 16:38 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh: we'll come back to it | 16:38 |
| th1a | Filip added javascript hooks to the gradebook and filldown. | 16:39 |
| th1a | ignas: Did you get the patch? | 16:39 |
| ignas | th1a: nope | 16:39 |
| aelkner | me, neither | 16:39 |
| th1a | Did you get his email? | 16:39 |
| ignas | yep | 16:39 |
| th1a | OK. I'll point that out to him. | 16:40 |
| th1a | Also, Douglas seemed to learn a lot, so he should be able to contribute soon. | 16:40 |
| th1a | ignas: is yvl around? | 16:40 |
| ignas | th1a: no, he is feeling very sick, so he went home like 30 minutes ago | 16:41 |
| th1a | Ah, crap. | 16:41 |
| ignas | but he checked out the stuff | 16:41 |
| ignas | and looked at it | 16:41 |
| ignas | and even found some kind of bug in the interventions package | 16:41 |
| ignas | that he spent some time diagnosing | 16:41 |
| th1a | OK... if he's alive we'd really like to have the report Wednesday. | 16:41 |
| ignas | yeah, i know, and he knows | 16:42 |
| th1a | OK. I wasn't sure if I had stressed that before. | 16:42 |
| ignas | he already looked at the reportlab integration in schooltool | 16:42 |
| ignas | and everything (except for interventions being a bit broken in some place) seems fine from what I understand | 16:42 |
| aelkner | what's broken? | 16:43 |
| ignas | can't tell precisely, but he was getting some kind lookup error (some data not being in the container, while application expects it) | 16:43 |
| th1a | By "reportlab integration seems fine" do you mean "you can actually generate pdf's without throwing an exception?" | 16:43 |
| ignas | when performing a student search in the interventions | 16:43 |
| ignas | th1a: yeah, more like "the code looks good, and seems to be working" | 16:44 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:44 |
| ignas | pdf generation | 16:44 |
| th1a | One other post-sprint issue is I think I'm getting sick. | 16:45 |
| th1a | This is the drawback of putting 150 people from around the world in a school together for a weekend. | 16:45 |
| th1a | ignas: How is your work coming? | 16:45 |
| ignas | th1a: i had to rewrite the term add/edit form | 16:46 |
| ignas | we lost the date picker for this moment | 16:46 |
| ignas | but now we have actual error checking | 16:46 |
| ignas | (there was none) | 16:46 |
| ignas | like - if you swapped start and end dates - you'd get crazy results | 16:46 |
| th1a | Indeed. | 16:46 |
| ignas | like all the days in the old term set to weekends | 16:47 |
| ignas | so now - school years and terms check errors properly when added/edited | 16:47 |
| ignas | error messages are even helpful, and do provide links to conflicting terms/ school years, and display date ranges | 16:47 |
| ignas | I also fixed some issues with term/school year removal | 16:47 |
| ignas | (we never had the usecase of the whole group container being removed before) | 16:48 |
| ignas | and now I am working on the evolution script | 16:48 |
| ignas | after that - i will work on gradebook plugification | 16:48 |
| th1a | Plugification? | 16:48 |
| ignas | well - making it possible to enable schooltool.gradebook | 16:49 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:49 |
| ignas | without creating a new database | 16:49 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:49 |
| aelkner | the other AppInit | 16:49 |
| ignas | yeah, more like AppStartUp | 16:49 |
| ignas | or ServerStartUp | 16:49 |
| aelkner | in a way, AppSatertup could replace AppInit, right? | 16:49 |
| th1a | You can also look at merging Filip's patch and the sprint branch. | 16:50 |
| ignas | I guess I could | 16:50 |
| jelkner | th1a: i just sent email to filip about his patch | 16:50 |
| th1a | Thanks jelkner. | 16:51 |
| ignas | hope they have cleaned up at least some of the things in there... | 16:51 |
| th1a | In the gradebook? | 16:51 |
| ignas | yes | 16:52 |
| th1a | Well, perhaps we can discuss that later. | 16:52 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Anything to add? | 16:52 |
| th1a | OK. aelkner has a lingering bug at SLA we need some advice on. | 16:54 |
| th1a | aelkner: Want to give us a brief intro? | 16:54 |
| aelkner | yeah, the intervention package uses Zope.Sendmail | 16:54 |
| aelkner | the bug is that when the intervention package sends a mail | 16:55 |
| aelkner | the mail item gets added to the mail-queue/new directory in the instance directory | 16:55 |
| aelkner | but all mail is getting stuck there until we do a restart | 16:56 |
| ignas | yeah, Justas got mail related tracebacks too | 16:56 |
| ignas | but that's because he didn't configure anything in there | 16:56 |
| aelkner | yeah, you have to add a block to your school.zcml | 16:56 |
| th1a | Yes, that needs to be fixed before it can be used elsewhere. | 16:56 |
| aelkner | ignas: i have in the back of my mind | 16:57 |
| th1a | So what were you telling me about stdout? | 16:57 |
| th1a | aelkner? | 16:57 |
| aelkner | that maybe the mail is getting blocked becuase the /etc/init.d/schooltool script that i wrote is bad | 16:57 |
| aelkner | maybe it orphans sysout or syserr in a way that makes Zope.sendmail block | 16:58 |
| aelkner | do you have a init.d script that i could use? | 16:58 |
| aelkner | sorry, stdout and stderr | 16:59 |
| th1a | What's wrong with our debian one? | 16:59 |
| aelkner | i've never seen it | 16:59 |
| ignas | aelkner: i didn't have any time too look at the way you have set up mail for SLA | 16:59 |
| ignas | so i can't really help you at the moment | 17:00 |
| aelkner | ignas: what about the init.d script? | 17:00 |
| ignas | ahh | 17:00 |
| ignas | hmm, i don't know, i had no problems with it | 17:00 |
| aelkner | no, the question was | 17:00 |
| th1a | aelkner: if you install our debian package you'll get it. | 17:00 |
| th1a | (debian/ubuntu package) | 17:01 |
| aelkner | would installing the debian package conflict with my sandbox in any way? | 17:01 |
| th1a | Also, it must be in our repository somewhere. | 17:01 |
| aelkner | i'd prefer to get it from there | 17:01 |
| aelkner | i was hoping ignas could answer the "somewhere" question | 17:01 |
| th1a | Well, I can just send you a copy from my computer here. | 17:02 |
| aelkner | that would work | 17:02 |
| ignas | aelkner: school tool packages do not have the init script iirc, they have a configuration that builds it | 17:02 |
| th1a | Since I have copies on. like, all my computers. | 17:03 |
| Lumiere | back | 17:03 |
| th1a | just a sec... | 17:05 |
| th1a | OK, sent. Take a look at that aelkner. | 17:06 |
| aelkner | looking at it now... | 17:08 |
| aelkner | first question, why is this written in shell and not python ?! | 17:09 |
| th1a | It is a debian init script. | 17:09 |
| ignas | aelkner: because if all the packages would write init scripts in their language admins would have to know python, perl, ruby, java, shell, common-lisp and pretty much every other language... | 17:10 |
| aelkner | you could say that, but | 17:11 |
| aelkner | i remember jelkner telling me that mark's goal was to eventually | 17:11 |
| aelkner | replace all .sh scripts in ubuntu with python versions | 17:11 |
| aelkner | is that not the case? | 17:12 |
| th1a | I don't think it is practical. | 17:12 |
| ignas | especially if you are taking most of the packages from debian | 17:12 |
| aelkner | not important, iwas just curious | 17:13 |
| th1a | Anyhow... | 17:13 |
| th1a | That script is actually called from /etc/init.d/schooltool-2008. | 17:13 |
| th1a | You really should just install the Ubuntu package so you can see how the parts fit together. | 17:14 |
| aelkner | so to answer my question from before, is ther any conflict possible between te debian package and usign the sandbox? | 17:15 |
| ignas | nope | 17:15 |
| ignas | unless you put stuff in /etc | 17:15 |
| th1a | There shouldn't be -- we've spent hundreds of hours working on systems to make it possible. | 17:15 |
| ignas | sandbox is isolated | 17:16 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:16 |
| ignas | you don't need root to install it | 17:16 |
| ignas | you can't mess up system packages without being root | 17:16 |
| ignas | or using sudo ;) | 17:16 |
| ignas | unless you drop your laptop from the fifth floor | 17:16 |
| th1a | OK. I guess that's the next step for aelkner then. | 17:17 |
| aelkner | is there a link to the instructions for installng the debian package you could give me? | 17:17 |
| th1a | http://book.schooltool.org | 17:17 |
| aelkner | thanks | 17:18 |
| th1a | jelkner: Do you want to throw in your bit? | 17:18 |
| th1a | See: http://launchpad.net/tjtalk | 17:20 |
| ignas | th1a: can you add a link to the book to the front page on schooltool.org | 17:20 |
| th1a | I guess I need to make it more emphatic. | 17:21 |
| th1a | I'm going to be working on schooltool.org between now and the release. | 17:21 |
| ignas | ok, just thought about it when nubae mentioned that he didn't know that the book existed ;) | 17:22 |
| th1a | OK. That's all I've got. We've got a lot to do... any last words? | 17:22 |
| ignas | have a nice week | 17:22 |
| ignas | we have 2 weeks left to release the thing... | 17:22 |
| ignas | (if i recall correctly) | 17:23 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:23 |
| th1a | 17 days. | 17:23 |
| th1a | RIght now if you click on "Documentation" the book is the first thing on the list. | 17:23 |
| ignas | yeah, i know | 17:23 |
| th1a | When you run a website like this you learn the extent that people have to be beaten over the head with things. | 17:24 |
| ignas | :) | 17:24 |
| th1a | OK, have a great week, folks! | 17:24 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:25 | |
| lisppaste5 | ignas pasted "Evolution script plan" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/68420 | 17:27 |
| ignas | th1a: can you look at it and try to think of something i have missed? | 17:28 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:28 |
| th1a | Also, where can I leave loot for you? | 17:28 |
| ignas | ahh, rens will do ;) | 17:29 |
| ignas | thanks :) | 17:29 |
| jelkner | th1a: i can wait | 17:30 |
| th1a | Jelkner is the only gradebook user. | 17:30 |
| jelkner | i think it is *super* exciting | 17:30 |
| jelkner | but we can deal with it later | 17:30 |
| th1a | So maybe he just needs a script for himself. | 17:30 |
| Lumiere | ignas: for making schoolyears | 17:30 |
| jelkner | the 1st thing is just getting replaceafil to finish the cando integration | 17:31 |
| Lumiere | you may want to have it ask | 17:31 |
| Lumiere | what the start/stop dates | 17:31 |
| th1a | I would just say don't get stuck seeing everything flowing through the gradebook. | 17:31 |
| Lumiere | for year are | 17:31 |
| Lumiere | there aren't going to be many evolutions to it | 17:31 |
| ignas | Lumiere: no, i can't it's an evolution script | 17:31 |
| Lumiere | I meant | 17:31 |
| Lumiere | have it look at a config file | 17:31 |
| Lumiere | and fail if it isn't right | 17:31 |
| ignas | Lumiere: emm, can't expect users to fix schooltool.conf | 17:32 |
| Lumiere | with a message "please setup schoolyear transition configuration | 17:32 |
| ignas | on their system when sudo apt-get updating | 17:32 |
| Lumiere | ignas: how many users | 17:32 |
| ignas | Lumiere: no idea | 17:32 |
| Lumiere | are actually going to be doing that transition | 17:32 |
| th1a | We can pretty much assume it is people we know. | 17:32 |
| Lumiere | th1a: what format is that book in | 17:33 |
| Lumiere | and where is it written | 17:33 |
| th1a | It is restructured text checked into bzr. | 17:33 |
| th1a | schooltool-owners on LP. | 17:33 |
| ignas | https://code.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/users-guide | 17:33 |
| th1a | The html is generated with Sphinx, which rulez. | 17:34 |
| *** dwelsh has quit IRC | 17:42 | |
| th1a | One thing we could do is simply have users change the titles of terms to fit a convention making it easier for us to know what to do with them in evolution. | 17:42 |
| ignas | we can try that, though - how to stall evolution and give them the chance to do it... | 17:44 |
| th1a | I'm saying that we really only have to worry about the people we're actively supporting. | 17:44 |
| ignas | well - i will definitely have the "try to find year as prefix to the title" in my magic | 17:45 |
| ignas | so if your terms will have "2005 Fall" "2005 Spring" or | 17:45 |
| th1a | Anyone else who is a) using alpha software in production and b) ignoring emails to the list, posts to the website, etc. about upgrading their scary alpha production software | 17:45 |
| ignas | "2005-2006 Fall" "2005-2006 Spring" | 17:45 |
| th1a | is just on their own. | 17:46 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:46 |
| ignas | then if that fails - i will look at dates, and try adding break in summer or in the longest span (like if i see term1, small break, term2, small break, term3, loong break term4) put the 3 terms in one school year | 17:48 |
| ignas | and then if all that fails - just give a school year for every term (or maybe look at sections and try to keep section in the same school year) | 17:48 |
| th1a | Don't go too nuts with it. | 17:49 |
| th1a | I mean, don't spend too much time on it. | 17:49 |
| ignas | well - i don't really want to hurry to much doing this, because if I mess it up, no one can fix it ;) | 17:50 |
| Lumiere | ignas: btw, Application Control has an "Evolve?" on it | 17:51 |
| ignas | *too much | 17:51 |
| Lumiere | can we make it so evolution to schoolyears | 17:51 |
| ignas | Lumiere: you don't want to rely on it | 17:51 |
| Lumiere | has to be done by a manager in there? | 17:51 |
| ignas | Lumiere: application will not work without data structures set up | 17:51 |
| Lumiere | heh | 17:51 |
| Lumiere | ignas: ok | 17:51 |
| ignas | Lumiere: it just won't, the code can't support database without school years | 17:51 |
| Lumiere | hehe | 17:51 |
| Lumiere | oh well | 17:51 |
| Lumiere | it was a thought | 17:51 |
| ignas | see you tomorrow | 18:26 |
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