IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2008-08-11

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jelknerwbrady: good morning!16:06
jelknerr u coming in here today, or working from home?16:07
wbradyjelkner: i am here in welsh's office, r u upstairs?16:07
wbradyshould i come up there?16:10
jelknerup 2 u16:10
jelknerjames and josh are setting up the lab here16:10
wbradyok welsh is not here so im on my way16:10
jelkneryou don't need to work alone16:10
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jelknergood morning th1a!16:18
ignashello everybody16:20
jelknergood morning ignas!16:21
th1aGood morning jelkner.16:26
jelknercando meeting is here at 11 am, yes?16:27
jelknerth1a: btw it was *great* having yvl here!16:27
th1ayvl = justas?16:28
yvlyes :)16:28
*** yvl is now known as justas16:29
aelkner__hey justas!  how was your flight16:29
*** justas is now known as sjustas16:29
sjustashi aelkner__16:29
aelkner__why not just call yourself sid vicious and be done with it :)16:29
sjustasgreat, thanks :)16:29
jelkneraelkner__: why don't you rename yourself as just aelkner?16:30
aelkner__i keep getting bounced by my isp so i get these _s added to my name16:30
th1aJust do '/nick aelkner'16:30
*** aelkner__ is now known as aelkner16:31
aelknersjustas: why the s before justas?16:31
sjustasjustas is a registered nick16:31
sjustasjust added first letter of my surname16:32
th1aOK, let's get started.16:32
th1aignas: How was your week?16:32
ignasnot too bad, spent some time with marius16:32
ignasand we have nailed the school year and term datastructures16:33
ignasat last16:33
ignasnow i have to make a couple of tests pass and i will commit it16:33
* ignas had some trouble with places for all the validation code to go16:33
ignasbut we have solved it16:33
ignasi mean - schoolyears must not overlap, and terms must not overlap, and we want to enforce that even when editing attributes16:34
ignasnot just when adding a new test/schoolyear to the container16:34
ignasadd the first/last date constraints, and edges of the schoolyear that should not be crossed16:34
ignasso at the moment i am adding a New SchoolYear form16:35
ignasto test it functionally16:35
ignasafter which i will commit it16:35
ignasand go for the evolution script16:35
th1aThat will be fun.16:36
ignasoh and after some discussion I have decided to keep groups and sections and etc in app['groups'], but make these containers 2 level so I could keep migration manageable16:36
jelknerand in time for the opening of school too!16:36
th1aSo what's the hierarchy?16:37
ignaswell groups will be for example app['groups']['2005-2006']16:37
ignaswhile sections app['sections']['2005-2006']['spring'] most probably16:37
ignasyou will be accessing these through adaptation most of the time anyway16:38
ignasactually - all the time, so in a section view you just go for IGroupContainer(section)16:38
ignasthat's kind of it16:38
th1aWell, that's good news.16:39
th1aConsidering it is the last really thorny problem we've got to solve.16:39
ignasfrankly, it's going slower than I have expected, because it's thornier than I thought, i mean - it's a simple app -> schoolyear_container -> schoolyear -> terms hierarchy16:40
ignasand we only have schoolyear to add16:40
ignasbut it was not that simple, as always...16:40
th1aYes.  I was expecting it to be harder than expected.16:41
th1aLike we said in Vilnius.  Logically this is the first thing that should have been done.16:41
aelknerluckily we have a limited number of deployments to worry about16:41
th1aSo it is a little tricky to do now.  Like jacking up the house to add a new foundation.16:42
aelknerlike that senator from Alaska16:42
th1aOK... aelkner, do you have anything to add to your email report.16:42
th1aYeah, Ted Stevens' house.16:42
aelknernothing to add16:42
aelknerchris is unavailable this week, but marcie and Wilfredo are16:43
aelkneri'l go in tomorrow morning to meet with the two of them16:43
th1aSounds good.16:43
aelknerignas: thanks for breaking my bzr lock16:43
aelknerso i can do that command anytime i have that problem?16:44
th1aDid you get some rest this weekend, aelkner?16:44
aelkneri kad a crazy schedule of 24 hours awake 12 hours sleep16:44
aelknerbut it worked out just the same16:44
aelknerand i16:44
aelkneri'm back to a normal schedule now16:44
th1aOK.  You'll need a big push to finish this week.16:45
aelknerno social plans16:45
th1aOK.  jelkner, anything you want to add?16:46
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replaceafillgood morning16:47
aelknerjelkner is probably playing around in his classroom and not hearing his ping16:47
th1aah, hi replaceafill.16:47
jelknerbut thanks to wbrady16:47
jelkneri'm back16:48
replaceafillth1a, hi16:48
replaceafilljelkner, hi jeffrey16:48
th1areplaceafill: Can you update us on your situation in El Salvador?16:48
jelknergood morning16:48
jelknerso, i was hoping to get douglas setup for schooltool development16:49
replaceafillth1a, well jelkner and I were talking about showing schooltool to Perulapia's teachers16:49
jelknerreplaceafill: did you join the schooltool-dev mailing list yet?16:50
replaceafilljelkner, no, i'm going to do it right now :)16:51
jelkneryou have a launchpad account16:51
replaceafilljelkner, yes16:51
jelknerth1a: can we add him to whatever schooltool group is needed for him to do translation?16:51
replaceafillth1a, yeah that was the other thing, i can help with spanish translations too16:52
th1aWell, right now anyone can do translations through LaunchPad.16:52
jelknerreplaceafill: what do you need to get started?16:53
replaceafilli've tried launchpad to do translations before, so i guess im ok with that16:54
th1aWe need to reorganize our translations on Launchpad as per my Friday email.16:54
th1aUnless someone has a better idea.16:54
jelknerif you need help setting up a schooltool development environment for both demoing to the school in perulapia and for doing your own development, here is the place to ask16:54
ignasth1a: i am not sure how well the "copy translations over" step works16:55
ignasat the moment you get suggestions from the last run16:55
ignasnot sure whether you can automatically transfer translations from the last series though16:55
th1aignas: Yes, I was wondering about that step.16:55
replaceafilljelkner, i could set up an instance and sample data in my Debian box this weekend16:56
th1aBut you can upload a translation done externally.16:56
replaceafilljelkner, using the Schooltool Book16:56
ignasth1a: one by one i think16:56
ignasi will look at the "fake" launchpad16:56
ignasand try doing something like that16:56
ignasthey have a staging instance for experiments16:57
ignaswhich is quite nice16:57
th1aWe could ask on #rosetta, too, right?16:57
ignas#launchpad ;)16:57
jelknerthis is a good opportunity for to figure this out16:57
th1aFigure which out?16:58
jelknerand develop a clear, easy to follow process to permit schooltool translations to be done16:58
th1aI think the main thing is it needs to be release by release.16:58
jelknerso if a volunteer wants to help with a translation, by which process to they get it into a release?16:59
replaceafilljelkner, i just suscribed to the mailing list16:59
jelknerand what is the timeline for the next time a translation can be added?16:59
jelknerso that spanish can be in the first available release...17:00
th1aThe schedule for the next release will not require much lead time.17:01
ignasand i can always add an up to date spanish translation to a bugfix release17:01
jelknerso what should replaceafill do to proceed?17:01
th1aI'm not feeling very optimistic about actually getting all the new Zope3 packages into Intrepid.17:02
th1aI have a feeling I'm going to have to fly someone to the next Ubuntu conference to get our needs on the official agenda for Intrepid+1.17:02
jelknera good idea!17:03
jelknerthe developer conferences are the place to do that17:03
ignashmm, you might want to talk to Brian about that like now ;) so he could start planning early17:03
ignashe still is the most knowledgable person among schooltool people17:03
th1aHave they announced where that will be?17:04
ignasdon't know really17:04
th1aOK, anyhow.17:05
th1aHere's the current sequence of events for translations:17:05
th1a(pending advice from the LP team)17:06
th1aWe should put up a set of 8.04 templates.17:07
th1aPoint people to those.17:07
jelkner*we* being who?17:07
th1aHm... well, then the 8.10 series will go up in about a month.17:08
th1aSo maybe we shouldn't bother with 8.04.17:08
jelkneri agree17:08
ignasth1a: i would like to bother17:08
ignasjust so we can test more of the process17:08
th1aYes, that is true.17:08
ignaseven if it's just a theater ;)17:08
th1aBetter to screw up the alpha to beta transition than beta to 1.0.17:08
ignasscrew up early, screw up often17:09
ignasok, maybe just early ;)17:09
th1aSo the key step to test is to shift as much of the completed 8.04 template into 8.10 so you don't have to start over from scratch.17:10
th1aUnless using the suggestions feature is very efficient.17:11
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th1aBut I suspect it would involve clicking in 1000 radio buttons.17:11
ignassuggestions feature is very efficient, but still - there are quite many strings to double check17:11
th1aWell, lets upload the 8.04 template and take a look at it just using suggestions.17:12
jelknerso, as specifically at possible, what should replaceafill do while ignas is uploading the template?17:13
ignasmaybe write an email to schooltool dev so everyone would know his email17:13
ignasthen I could tell him as soon as i'm done17:14
th1aOnce it is uploaded we have to decide if it is usable as is or if we need to do more work on it.17:14
replaceafillignas, will do17:14
ignasor rather launchpad admins will be done marking the new templates as "Accepted"17:14
ignasreplaceafill: thanks17:14
th1aI guess it is more of a policy question than UI question.17:15
th1aWill we require that someone review each translation before it is included in the next release?17:15
* ignas votes for quality17:16
ignasdrop a translation, if it has no maintainer17:16
th1aIt does give us more of a check.17:16
th1aI'll ask around about that, but probably requiring active maintenance is a good idea.17:17
jelknerand helps build the community by encouraging folks to take responsibility17:17
jelkner(if you want your language supported, we need someone who agrees to maintain it)17:18
th1aEspecially since it is difficult to screen the translations of languages we don't know, and it is generally an advantage to make it easy for people to jump in and contribute.17:18
th1aOK.  I feel like a have a better handle on that question now.17:20
th1aAny other questions/comments replaceafill?17:20
jelknerreplaceafill is at work and may have been pulled away...17:22
jelknerbut he can get back to ignas with his question later, yes?17:22
replaceafillno im here17:22
replaceafillim writing the email to the dev list :)17:22
th1aThat's all I have.17:23
th1asjustas: Did you enjoy the sprint last week?17:23
sjustasyes, a lot :)17:23
jelknerespecially the beer, sjustas, right? ;-)17:24
sjustastrue, true... :)17:24
th1aExcellent.  That reduces the "ignas getting hit by a bus" problem.17:24
th1aExcept for ignas, of course.17:24
aelkneror the bus17:24
replaceafillignas, just sent the email to the list17:25
ignasreplaceafill: cool, i'll email you, and I guess the mailing list as soon as I'll upload the new templates17:26
th1aExcellent.  Sounds like a plan.17:26
replaceafillignas, ok17:26
th1aHave a great week, folks.  Especially aelkner...17:26
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:26
jelknerth1a: replaceafill was asking me about the gravel... and i couldn't tell him what that is about17:27
jelkneris it a play on gavel?17:27
sjustasignas just explained it to me...17:27
th1aI used to bang the gavel and Martijn Faassen called it gravel.17:28
ignaswas invented by faassen on 2006-04-2517:28
th1aAnd as ignas pointed out, it is now useful for searching logs of the weekly meeting.17:28
replaceafillwow :)17:29
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dwelshgood morning17:47
jelknerdwelsh: we meet at 1117:47
wbradymorning dwelsh17:47
dwelshsounds good17:47
jelkneri'm going down to talk to you before then..17:47
dwelshshould we try to Skype???17:47
jelknernow, i mean17:47
jelknerare you here?17:47
dwelshyes, at ACC17:48
jelknerme too17:48
jelkneri'll be right down...17:48
wbradydwelsh: i'm up here too fyi17:49
algajelkner: hi17:53
algathanks for the XO17:53
algamy kid is already eargerly waiting for it at home :)17:53
sjustas dwelsh, my Skype account is justas.pov in case we do a conf. call17:56
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jelkneralga: you're quite welcome18:03
dwelshjustas:  trying you at justas.pov18:03
jelkneri'm glad it will be used18:03
jelknershould i start a skype out?18:03
jelkneralan i have18:05
jelknersjustas: your skype account?18:05
sjustasjelkner: justas.pov18:05
dwelshfsufitch:  what phone # are you at???18:05
fsufitchdwelsh: hi18:13
fsufitchim alrite to call now18:13
fsufitchare we skyping or telephoning?18:13
fsufitchsjustas, dwelsh, jelkner ... ?18:14
sjustasboth :)18:14
sjustasone minute, fsufitch18:15
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