IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2008-07-28

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fsufitchwbrady, whaddon: gmorning16:09
jstrawhi fsufitch, wbrady, whaddon, th1a, ignas16:16
fsufitchjstraw: hi16:16
fsufitchi've been up for a while16:16
fsufitchworking on a pet project...16:16
wbradyfsufitch: do you want me to submit that second part of the bug?16:16
fsufitchwbrady: that would help, yeah16:17
jstrawheh... this is the week where you are stuck in the middle of nowhere with dsl... right fsufitch?16:17
jstrawI'll remind welsh16:17
fsufitchi sent him an email16:17
fsufitchhe should know16:17
fsufitchalso ccarey should be coming in, so you won't be lonely :-P16:17
wbradyfsufitch: is the second part the part about putting up a message or something?16:18
fsufitchi dont remember...16:18
fsufitchlemme see16:18
wbradycause jason wrote this one16:19
th1ahi jstraw16:19
fsufitchwbrady: Finally, Data Checking needs to occur on the client and server side still. If invalid data is sent somehow, throw a message saying "no data was saved, invalid data sent somehow" or something like that.16:20
fsufitchend quote16:20
fsufitchthat's what it says16:20
fsufitchi admit, that is a problem, but it needs to be a separate bug16:21
wbradywill do16:21
wbradyis it ok if i keep the wording basically the same16:23
wbradyok done16:24
fsufitchyum, tostitos for breakfast16:26
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th1agood morning ignas, aelkner.16:30
th1aAnd the rest of you rabble.16:30
th1aSo the CanDo sprint is next week, right?16:32
aelknerthat's right16:32
th1aCan you refresh my memory on the goals for that?16:32
aelknerwe will want to finalize the gradebook16:32
aelknerand our tests16:32
aelknerwe have lots of bugs submitted16:32
aelknerthat are already being worked on16:32
aelknerbut we just want to have it all polished out by the end of the sprint16:33
aelknerone more thing16:33
aelknerwe want to discuss with Lee Capps16:33
jstrawI will be in Richmond Thursday16:33
aelknerthe entire stradegy for importing/exporting16:33
th1aSo that doesn't include the simpler requirements?16:33
aelkneri mean, what simpler requirements16:34
th1aI mean, requirements package.16:34
jstrawthe requirements package was the first thing worked on... wasn't it?16:34
aelknerwe didn't touch it16:34
aelknerwhat we did was to not use inheritence anymore16:35
aelknerso one could remove inheritence16:35
aelknerand make sure everything still works16:35
aelknerif we have the time16:35
aelknerwhich could happen16:35
aelknerbut the import/export issues16:35
jstraware substantal16:36
jstrawand more imporant16:36
aelknerwill be of indetermenant length16:36
aelknerso we will want to tackle them first16:36
aelkneri figure Justus will learn a lot by attending those design meetings16:36
aelknerand he would be the ideal candidate to do the eventual work16:36
th1aJust removing the functionality shouldn't be hard.16:37
aelknerthe rest of the developers have a clear understanding of whta they need to be doing16:37
th1aOK.  Just remember that we need to do that before the gradebook can land in the beta.16:37
aelknerok, we'll definitely keep that in mind16:38
aelknerand hope to accomplish it16:38
th1ajstraw: Any other thoughts?16:38
fsufitchaelkner: by the way, dropping in with an extra issue16:38
aelknergo ahead16:38
fsufitchas we add more and more JS functionality to the gradebook, it becomes more and  more untestable16:38
fsufitchi think at the moment there is no way to even test submitting of grades16:39
jstrawth1a: only what fsufitch and wbrady might have :)16:39
jstrawbut I think aelkner covered cando well16:39
aelknerwe could use zope's selenium package16:39
aelknerthat helps with testing JS16:39
aelknerso that could be one of the sprint goals16:39
ignasor you could write the code in such a way that still allows functional testing16:39
ignasand usage of the gradebook without javascript16:39
* jstraw is with ignas16:39
th1aBeing completely dependent on js is not desirable.16:40
jstrawfsufitch: at this point is what you have really any better then what was there last year?16:40
aelknercompletely dependant is overstating it a bit16:40
jstrawif it requires JS to work?16:40
aelknerit required JS last year too16:41
fsufitchjstraw: yes it is16:41
fsufitchbut it also required ajax16:41
fsufitchwhich was slow16:41
fsufitchand it also loaded EVERYthing, recursively16:41
aelknerwell, yeah, we got rid of that stupid recursive lpoading problem16:41
fsufitchalso that needed jquery16:42
fsufitchwhich broke badly16:42
th1aignas: Have you ever used zelenium?16:42
fsufitchth1a: i believe we were discussing selenium with phillip von weiterhausen16:43
ignasselenium, no not really, i have looked at posibility of integrating it with functional tests16:43
ignasbut that complicates buildbot16:43
ignasdevelopment sandbox setup16:43
jstrawhe suggested it was not a great solution16:43
jstrawit takes forever to use16:43
jstraw(because it requires x and a running browser)16:44
ignasand the system itself16:44
th1aYes.  I mean, it doesn't seem like something to add NOW.16:44
fsufitchthen what about testing the gradebook?16:44
aelknerwell, how much is JS?16:44
jstrawaelkner: the submit button...16:45
ignasfsufitch: well - you shouldn't have written it in a way that you can't test in the first place ;)16:45
aelkneri don't think they did16:45
fsufitchwell, u can test that the grades are there16:45
aelknerthere;s server side validity checks, no?16:45
fsufitchbut the submit does preliminary, pre-submit checking16:45
fsufitchand if there's anything wrong, then it refuses to submit16:46
th1aWhile on one hand it seems reasonable to assume javascript for a lot of stuff, it would be good if the core functionality worked without it -- things like adding grades to the gradebook.16:46
aelknerthat's ok, but you can still can be server-side tests16:46
fsufitchoh, server-side should work16:46
fsufitchi don't even see how that *could* be dependent on JS16:46
aelknerthey idea is, we have good server-side tests16:47
aelknerand let the JS be untested16:47
ignasso it works without javascript then... what you are not testing is - whether javascript error reporting works, yes?16:47
fsufitchwell, a little more than that16:47
fsufitchthere's fill-down, there's cells changing orange when wrong scores are input, there's cells changing red when you try to submit bad data, and then there's the warning bar which changes message and is hide-able, and the competency text bar, which displays text when a comp is moused over16:48
fsufitchi.e. a lot of js16:48
jstrawfsufitch: can you test it ignoring the js?16:48
aelknerwe already have16:49
fsufitchyou can test that the right grades are being *displayed*16:49
fsufitchbut there's no way to test its submission16:49
jstrawaelkner: not submit16:49
aelknerwhy not16:49
jstrawbecause it is all JS driven atm16:49
aelknerfunctional tests can fill in fields16:49
fsufitchbecause it calls a javascript function that isn't document.gradebook.submit()16:49
aelknerand submit them16:49
fsufitchit calls submitGradebook()16:49
th1aOK, I see the issue.  I don't want to go on with this now...16:49
fsufitchwhich checks all fields for validity16:50
th1aYou'll have to discuss this later.16:50
aelknerth1a: we'll work this out at the sprint16:50
aelknerit's not a problem16:50
th1aI have a feeling that you just aren't really going to be able to test this stuff in our normal way.16:50
aelknerwe will make sure that server side it working16:50
th1aI mean, it is not an easy problem.16:50
jstrawwe'll look at it16:51
aelknerand not worry about testing JS16:51
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th1aOne last CanDo related thing -- deciding who is going to fix the password issue.16:51
aelkneri might be able to if i get the time during the sprint16:51
aelknerit was assigned to me after all16:52
aelknerbut that's a change that needs to go into schooltool itself16:52
aelknerso we will need to coordinate with ignas on merging branches16:52
jstrawI assigned it to you because you know both schooltool and cando best... so you would be most likely16:52
aelknerbut that's it16:52
jstrawto see all the consequences of the change16:52
aelknermake s sense to me16:53
th1aaelkner: You just have a lot on your plate now for SLA.16:53
aelknertrue, i will feel the crunch in the ninth inning16:54
aelknerbut what else is new16:54
jstrawof course... pass change is low priority16:54
jstrawif it isn't marked that for cando16:54
jstrawI will remark it16:54
th1aI guess the bottom line here is that if CanDo feels they need that *quickly* they may need to do it themselves.16:54
th1aOtherwise for SchoolTool, it is an important fix for October.16:55
aelknercan ignas do it?16:55
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aelknerand if so, could he do it in the short term?16:56
th1aThat's what I'm saying.  I don't consider it a "drop everything" bug for SchoolTool.16:56
ignasproper fixing might take time, and i don't really have much time :/16:56
ignasi mean - administrators should still be able to change passwords for others16:56
ignaswithout old password16:56
jstrawit is not a drop dead fix here either16:56
ignaswhile should have their password change dialog protected16:57
jstrawso pass on it till someone can get to it16:57
aelkneryeah, it's not that it doesn't work already16:57
aelknerit's just not password protected for users16:57
aelknerwho already should have entered the password anyway!16:57
th1aBasically, someone will have to stop and think clearly about what they are doing to not screw up the security, so it shouldn't be too hard, but not something to just jam in.16:57
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aelknerwe could agree to drop it for now, yes?16:58
aelknerjstraw: ?16:58
jstrawalready have ;)16:58
th1aIt is important though, because if a teacher leaves their computer (as they do) you don't want a kid to easily change their password.16:58
th1aOK... moving on.16:58
jstrawthanks th1a16:58
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th1aaelkner: Have you been reading mysql docs?16:59
aelknerjust the mysql-python ones16:59
aelkneri was hoping to avoid having to install mysql on my machine16:59
th1aYou need to get over that.16:59
th1aThat's why God invented "apt-get remove."17:00
aelkneryes, i fifured it would have to17:00
aelknerso i was probably goning to be installing mysql this week17:00
aelknerbut i could write a lot of the sql queries without mysql17:00
aelkneras the tests will need to dummy out mysql anyway17:00
jstrawmysql-python is pretty easy17:00
* jstraw uses it17:01
jstrawalthough I am not doing transactions etc17:01
aelknerperhaps you could explain how to connect to a remote db17:01
th1aYou need to know a little about mysql though.17:01
fsufitchjstraw: i tried to udnerstand it a few weeks ago and failed. think you could explain some stuff to me later?17:01
th1aYou have to enable that in the server's config.17:01
jstrawfsufitch: mysql-python?17:01
th1aIt is off by default.17:01
aelknerah, that would help17:01
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aelkneri could ask chris to set that up for me17:02
aelknerbut yes, i will read the mysql docs17:02
aelknerto see what they say on the matter17:02
jstrawaelkner: I use a local mysql with no external access17:02
th1aCan't you turn it on on the test server?17:02
aelkneri'd like to, just don't know what to turn on17:03
th1aWell, you need to quickly learn.17:03
fsufitchwhat's this for?17:03
aelknerfsufitch: it's for SLA, don't worry17:03
jstrawfsufitch: sssh :)17:04
aelknerth1a: thanks i'll look intpo it17:04
th1aWe're digging our grubby fingers into Moodle's database.17:04
jstrawwith a hammer and chisel17:05
aelknermoodle likes it dirty17:05
th1aWell, theoretically they have a web api, but I don't trust it.17:06
th1aOK, anything else aelkner?17:06
aelknernot particularly17:06
aelknerjust to discuss quickly17:07
aelknerthe goals for Justus17:07
aelkneri figure that17:07
aelknerhe will be learning the app17:07
aelknerbut also, I figured he should attend the design meetings with Lee Capps17:07
aelknerregarding import/export17:07
aelknerand he could handle that part of the coding effort17:08
th1aignas:  justas has longish brown hair?17:08
aelknerbut mainly he would be training to take over for the student developers17:08
aelknerwhen they drop off in the fall17:08
ignasth1a: yes17:09
aelknerlongish brown hair?17:09
aelknerwell then we can't give him import/export17:09
aelknernot funny i know17:09
aelknerthat's all i got17:09
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th1aOh... the POV lineup is just Aiste, Albert, Ignas, Justas, Marius and Vika?17:10
th1aI thought there was another guy.17:10
ignasand Laurynas17:10
th1aOK.  You need to update your website.17:11
th1aOK, ignas, how are terms coming?17:11
ignasnot much, spent last week with bugfix release and the CSV change17:12
ignasour release machinery broke down17:12
ignasand I am investigating it at the moment17:12
ignaswrote jinty an email, maybe he can help17:12
ignasand got sidetracked with the Zope3 bug with python2.517:12
* ignas expected more discipline from Zope3 developers17:13
ignasC and python code has diverged in at least 2 places in Zope security17:13
th1aHave you tried jinty's packages?17:13
ignasthey work for me ;)17:13
ignasand i could even install twisted side by side with schooltool17:13
th1aI've got   python-zodb: Depends: python-zopeinterface17:13
th1aSo I need to email him about that.17:14
ignasmaybe I didn't perform a completely clean install17:14
th1aOr perhaps it is me.17:14
ignasi'll try removing *everything* and try installing it then17:14
ignasbecause what I have tested was an "upgrade"17:15
th1aThat's what I'm doing, too.  I mean, I'm upgrading.17:15
ignasi see17:15
ignaswell - you should definitely write an email to Brian17:15
th1aI shall.17:17
ignasanother problem that took me a while was our CSV import views17:17
th1aDid you fix them?17:17
ignasi have added the course ID to the CSV17:17
ignasthat was easy17:17
ignasbut I have found like 3-4 bugs17:17
ignassome of them serious in the rest of the CSV views17:17
ignasi don't think i will be fixing them soon though ...17:17
ignasmust get terms going and finish them first17:18
ignasjust - do not try importing persons with username @@index.html using the csv form ;)17:18
jstrawjust make @ an illegal character17:19
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ignasit's a bit more complicated, but nothing that is not fixable...17:19
ignaswhat would happen if i'd import @@delete.html?delete.manager=checked ...17:20
ignasanyway, that requires manager privileges17:20
jstrawignas: I'd mark it as a critical security bug?17:20
ignasjstraw: users can't do that17:21
jstrawyes but manager can17:21
ignasjstraw: yes, a manager can shoot himself in the leg in easier ways17:21
jstrawlol true17:21
th1aYes.  We'll close it up eventually though.17:21
ignasreported it17:21
ignasand some more csv or __name__ related bugs17:21
ignasso i would not forget it17:22
ignasso as soon as i'll get bugfix release going, or during the fixing period i'll work on terms17:22
ignashopefully Zope3 people will comment on the python2.5 problem17:23
th1aSo you're still jammed up on getting the bugfix release machinery working?17:23
ignasit fails in an interesting place17:23
ignasso i'll probably need some help from Brian17:23
ignasto fix it17:23
th1aOK.  Don't get behind on terms.17:23
ignasyes :/ I know17:24
th1aAny last words?17:24
ignashave a nice week!17:24
th1aIndeed.  Have a good one.17:25
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:25
* th1a goes to see what the furnace installers are doing to his basement.17:25
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wjohnsto_fsufitch: ayt?18:05
wjohnsto_dwelsh says to be available around noon for the conference call18:05
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fsufitchwjohnsto_: okay18:22
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ccareyfsufitch: hi18:44
fsufitchccarey: hello18:44
ccareywhatcha working on today?18:44
ccareyfsufitch: can i take some of your assigned bugs?18:47
fsufitchgo right ahead :)18:47
ccareyanything specific you18:48
fsufitchi'm still working on beautifying gradebook and making it better18:48
ccarey'd like me to work on?18:48
fsufitchcould you do the latest thing i reported?18:48
fsufitchthe comp checking and stuff for  the student gradebook?18:48
ccareyok i'll take a look at that18:48
ccareyfsufitch, i added validity checks and error messages last week18:53
ccareyto student gradebook18:53
fsufitchthen just make that bug as fixed18:53
ccareyits just that submit is broken right?18:53
ccareyi still get an error when i submit18:54
ccareyso i'd have to fix that18:54
ccareyfsufitch can i clean out the gobby files?18:58
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dwelshfsufitch:  how do we call you?19:09
fsufitchmy skype handle is fsufitch19:09
fsufitchlemme get it active19:10
dwelshnot skype, has to be tel19:10
dwelshcall me 703.228.573519:10
dwelshfsufitch:  you there???19:12
fsufitchyes, i'm here19:12
fsufitchhaving sound card probs though19:12
fsufitchi'll call19:12
fsufitchi have to restart first though19:12
dwelshyes, please do19:12
fsufitchso, brb19:12
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jstrawwhaddon: libxml2-dev libxslt1-dev21:55
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* jstraw stabs someone in the face22:42
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