IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2007-06-08

*** didymo has joined #schooltool00:41
*** Fujitsu has joined #schooltool00:45
*** Aiste has quit IRC00:53
*** jfroche has quit IRC01:40
*** gpaci has quit IRC01:48
*** pcardune has joined #schooltool02:11
*** didymo has quit IRC02:23
*** pcardune has quit IRC02:36
*** gpaci has joined #schooltool02:47
*** gpaci has quit IRC05:03
*** E-nnovative has joined #schooltool06:46
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool08:06
*** Aiste has quit IRC08:47
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool08:47
*** didymo has joined #schooltool10:19
*** thisfred has joined #schooltool10:24
*** kitblake has quit IRC10:28
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool11:04
*** E-nnovative has quit IRC11:39
*** Aiste has quit IRC12:17
*** alga has quit IRC12:27
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool12:35
*** didymo has quit IRC13:09
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool13:35
*** ignas has joined #schooltool13:42
*** ignas has quit IRC14:42
*** alga has quit IRC14:59
*** wjohnsto_ has joined #schooltool16:06
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool16:20
*** D`ArtaGnaN has joined #schooltool16:47
*** Aim2 has quit IRC16:48
*** Aim2 has joined #schooltool16:48
*** dwelsh has joined #schooltool16:51
th1adwelsh: Are we meeting here or on the phone?16:51
dwelshmeeting here16:51
dwelshbut can I call too?16:52
*** aelkner has joined #schooltool16:54
*** wjohnsto_ has quit IRC16:54
dwelshOK.  We're getting ready for ZIF-SIF mtg.16:57
dwelsher, ZIS-SIF16:58
dwelshWill Dickerson, you around???16:59
aelknerHe's not here yet.  His handle is wdickers.16:59
dwelshJust spoke with Elkner... we're thinking he'll join us16:59
aelknerThis is his class perios, right?17:00
jelknerhi all17:00
jelknerwdickers can't get permission from his Psychology teacher to miss class17:01
jelknerhe won't be here until 10:58ish17:01
aelknerWoudl that be a strick Freudian teacher? :)17:01
jelknerlooks like it :-(17:02
jelknerso, do you all want to come back at 11?17:02
dwelshNo, let's go forward now.17:02
dwelshHere we go on project status...17:02
jelknerdwelsh: who is running the show?17:02
dwelshdwelsh will run the show.17:03
th1ahi jelkner.17:03
dwelshI've spoken with Hoffman, Carduner and Jeff Elkner on this17:03
dwelshAgenda items:17:03
dwelsh1) ZIS-SIF project status17:03
dwelsh2) Moving forward on our two main user stories17:04
dwelshPROJECT STATUS:17:04
dwelshTom Hoffman has written ZIS agent, which basically works17:04
dwelshHe is working on a more robust (i.e. enterprise version)17:04
dwelshWill Dickerson has written SIF client17:04
dwelshwhich also basically works but still has some bugs17:04
dwelshWill is doing another internship this summer17:05
dwelshBut will be available for questions at a minimum17:05
th1adwelsh mixed up the terminology a bit, but he's basically right.17:05
dwelshCorrections from Tom now:17:05
th1aI've written a ZIS (Zone Integration Server) and I'm working on a better one.17:05
th1aI've written a SIF agent library which Will used.17:06
th1aTo create an agent (client) for SchoolTool.17:06
dwelshSo the 3 components are:17:06
dwelsh1) ZIS17:06
dwelsh2) SIF agent library17:06
dwelsh3) SIF agent17:06
dwelsh2 new interns have been assigned to the SIF agent17:07
dwelshThey are: Chris Cary and Thomas Doggette17:07
dwelshChris Carey has the higher-level Python skills17:08
dwelshThomas is more in the assist/learning position17:08
dwelshWe have two user stories clamoring for ZIS-SIF17:08
dwelshThey are:17:08
dwelsh1) Export-Import CanDo data from one instance/server into another17:08
dwelsh2) Export-Import CanDo data from CanDo into a school's data warehouse (i.e. eSchoolsPlus)17:09
dwelshBoth of these stories have been written-up in some detail on the Trac-Wiki17:09
dwelshPaul Carduner is stepping-in to try and use the ZIF-SIF pieces to address these user stories17:10
dwelshSo he wants this project update.17:10
dwelshand he wants to see if he can move forward using these pieces to import-export CanDo data17:10
dwelshand push the ZIF-SIF folks to get their pieces fully functional17:10
dwelshAre we done with the project status part???17:11
dwelshAnything else to add?17:11
dwelshAnyone else want to work on this???17:11
th1aThe good news is that Will has done the hard parts already, I think.17:11
dwelshThat's good17:11
dwelshTom, how has he done with it?17:11
th1aOnce you establish the pattern, it becomes a matter of just doing the same thing over and over again.17:12
th1aTo handle the different types of messages.17:12
th1aI think he's done well.17:12
dwelshGood job, Will Dickerson and Jeff Elkner:)17:12
dwelshWhat about moving forward?17:12
dwelshPaul asks have we set-up and shared data between two CanDo instances using our ZIF-SIF?17:13
dwelshI certainly have plenty of data.17:14
th1aI believe Will has.17:14
dwelshShould I get Will to run a demo for us using 2 instances and data?17:14
th1aFinding out exactly where we are would seem to be the next step.17:14
dwelshJason and I can do this.  We have plenty of data and instances.17:14
dwelshCan't we use this test to find out where we are?17:15
dwelshi.e.  Can't we get will to try to export one piece of data using ZIS-SIF between the two instances?17:16
dwelshOK.  I say we begin right here.17:16
dwelshWill wrote a nice routine last year to export-import competency lists from CanDo05 into CanDo06.17:16
dwelshI was impressed with how well he did.17:17
dwelshSo in Will I am trusting.17:17
*** wjohnsto has quit IRC17:17
dwelshPaul's second questions is: Do with have a CanDo SIF agent.17:17
dwelshIt sounds like we actually already do have the rudiments of one.17:17
dwelshAm I correct about this?17:18
dwelshSo now about moving forward.17:19
th1aBasically, once you get the thing running, it is just a matter of implementing specific messages.17:19
*** Aiste has quit IRC17:19
dwelshAnd we certainly have specific messages in mind we want to send.17:19
dwelshSo here are my questions about moving forward.17:20
dwelshWe've got Tom, Paul, Will, Chris and Thomas all working on this.17:20
dwelshWe set-up our pieces and try to exchange one type of message.17:20
dwelshThen we go after the other messages.17:20
dwelshI am assuming Paul will be driving the overall process as he tries to handle the messages of the user story.17:21
dwelshWho will help coordinate these three different pieces?17:21
dwelshPaul (userstories), Tom (ZIS), Will-Chris-Thomas (agent)17:21
dwelshAre we hoping that Paul will write additional code required to get it all working17:22
th1aWhen is Paul going to be back in DC?17:22
dwelshWeek after next17:22
dwelshOr are we hoping Tom and Chris-Thomas will write additional code to get it all working?17:22
th1aI'm definitely planning to keep working on the ZIS and the agent library.17:23
dwelshThat's good news17:23
th1aBut I think you need someone in DC to coordinate the CanDo agent.17:23
th1aI don't think I can explain this to interns remotely.17:24
dwelshCan Paul figure out the code and process?17:24
dwelshHow much and how dense is the agent code?17:25
th1aIt is pretty simple.17:25
dwelshWell, that's good news.17:25
th1aI'm sure I could get Paul up to speed.17:25
dwelshSo I think we've boiled this down to the issue:17:26
dwelshWe need some agent coordination in DC17:26
dwelshThis line has been uttered many times in the DC area,17:26
dwelshbut rarely with regards to ZIS-SIF17:26
dwelshBoth Jeff Elkner and Will Dickerson become available at 11am.17:27
dwelshI am going to put that question to each of them.17:27
dwelshOverall, we are further along than Paul thought.17:27
dwelshWe have pretty good pieces.17:27
th1aI think so.17:28
dwelshWe need to coordinate the pieces and people to handle some specific messages.17:28
dwelshThat's all I have.17:28
dwelshAny other thoughts about all of this?17:28
th1aSounds right to me.17:28
aelknerWe need to have a dialog box (web page) for initiating a transaction od the data.17:29
aelknerThere needs to be configuration within schooltool for doing this.17:29
aelknerWe talked about this, but I'm guessing Will hasn't got into that yet.17:30
dwelshThis sounds like the place where we need to start with Will as we use our pieces to send our first ZIS-SIF message.17:30
aelknerDo your user stories include the web pages and config?17:30
dwelshThat's actually not the job of the UserStory17:31
dwelshThat's a part of developer implementation.17:31
aelknerNot exactly.17:31
dwelshBut I encourage you guys to open-up a dialogue about this on the spec17:31
aelknerOne needs to specify the user experience of initiating the transaction.17:31
aelknerSo that the user knows what to do.17:31
aelknerThen the developers need to implement this.17:32
dwelshThe logical thought is go to command, "export CanDo data"17:32
dwelshand then there's a dialgue there17:32
dwelshor "import CanDo data"17:32
aelknerBut also there could be a config page so that each import doesn't ask for the info redundantly.17:33
dwelshSounds good to me.17:33
aelknerBy info I mean:17:33
dwelshIt's the job of developers to implement and smartly and elegantly as possible17:33
aelknerWhat ZIS the schooltool instance is communicating with.17:33
th1aWell, TInyZIS is the one that works now.17:33
aelknerSo that would go in the config page: TinyZis and its IP17:34
aelknerThen the dialog for the transfer would specify what to transfer.17:34
aelknerSo that ought to be fleshed out in user stories of a more granular nature.17:35
aelknerPerhaps Paul would be the best person to come up with those as he has CanDo's skin in mind.17:36
dwelshUsers specify the data they want to transfer.17:36
dwelshYou give us a way to do it.17:36
dwelshThe data we want to transfer is there.17:36
aelknerShall we break down an example?17:37
dwelshLet's start by running a test to see if we can get one type of message out of one instance and into another17:37
dwelshThen lets go for other message types.17:37
dwelshReally, the data is not that voluminous, at least for starters17:37
aelknerI mean, verbally what the user does to complete a transfer.17:38
aelknerFor example. person data?17:38
dwelshExport person data from one instance of CanDo into anther.17:38
aelknerCould we have a web page that allows the user to tell the ZIS that it provides person data?17:38
aelknerth1a: what interaction with the ZIS would filling out this page represent?17:39
th1aSending a SIF_Provide message.17:40
aelknerWell, the agent would do that, yes.17:40
*** ignas has joined #schooltool17:40
aelknerignas: please check my posting from yesterday.17:41
th1aThis doesn't have to be very complicated, since we're only going to handle a few objects and messages at first.17:41
ignasaelkner: apt-get remove Zope317:41
aelknerComplicated, no, but specified on a granular level, yes.17:41
aelknerBefore coding, one should have a plan as to pages, modules, etc.17:41
aelknerIs Paul going to do this?17:43
dwelshI have a mtg. at 11am in another bldg.17:45
dwelshThanks Tom and Alan17:45
aelknerMy point is that we have been discussing the broad stokes for some time now (I haven't been in the discussion since Feb.), but there needs to be more specifc plans for the pieces.17:45
dwelshThis has been helpful17:46
dwelshI'll touch base with Will and Jeff about DC coordination17:46
aelknerAre Will and Jeff joining us at 11?17:46
aelknerOr is this meeting over?17:47
aelknerI need to discuss another problem with ignas, and I don't want to clutter this meeting.17:48
dwelshZIS-SIF mtg. is over.  Thanks one and all.17:48
th1aThanks dwelsh.17:49
aelknerignas: why would I need to remove Zope 3 to get schooltool to work?  I thought schooltool uses its own Zope 3  so that one could have Zope 3 for other projects and schooltool wouldn't care.17:50
aelknerIt has worked that way until now.17:50
ignaseggs changed that17:50
ignasit is not fixed yet17:50
ignasdifferent versions of Zope317:50
*** dwelsh has quit IRC17:50
aelknerWhat fix exactly is pending?17:50
aelknerDo the Zope folks need to get something fixed?17:51
ignasdon't know yet, i guess patching python path in some way, while installing eggs, or when using17:51
ignasZope folks would suggest you to use a different python instance17:51
ignasi guess17:52
*** gpaci has joined #schooltool17:52
ignasand anyway - are you using your ubuntu Zope3 install for anything?17:52
aelknerI installed Zope 3 at pycon using the svn checkout.17:52
aelknerThen I built a zope 3 instance in my home dir.17:53
ignasnow you don't have to as we do not depend on zpkg17:53
ignaszpkg depended on ubuntu Zope317:53
aelknerI didn't use zpkg.17:54
aelknerI used svn checkout.17:54
aelknerAnd I always used the default python instance.17:55
*** wdickers has joined #schooltool17:55
wdickersSorry for my tardiness17:55
ignasi know, what i meant was - it's schooltool and ubuntu problem not zope3 one17:55
aelknerwdickers: you should check the log of the last hour.17:55
ignasand at the moment it can be sovled quite easily17:55
ignasuninstall zope317:55
aelknerOk.  So I'll get rid of zope 3 from my system for now.  Then, I'll let you know if that fixes the problems I'm having.17:56
aelknerignas: I started from removing Zope 3 from my python path, and then I ran:18:00
aelknerpython2.4 -1fm cando.journal18:00
aelknerTraceback (most recent call last):18:00
aelkner  File "", line 30, in ?18:00
aelkner    import pytz18:00
aelknerImportError: No module named pytz18:00
ignastry "make test"18:01
ignasit should pull in missing dependencies18:01
ignasand sudo apt-get install python-tz if that won't help18:02
aelknerIs that in the instructions for installing schooltool?  If not, it ought to be.18:03
ignasaelkner: you can update the documentation as you go18:05
ignasif the instructions will work18:05
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool18:15
*** thisfred has quit IRC18:17
*** aelkner_ has joined #schooltool18:20
*** aelkner has quit IRC18:21
*** wdickers has quit IRC18:32
*** ignas has quit IRC18:36
*** gpaci has quit IRC19:12
*** jelkner has quit IRC19:20
*** aelkner_ has quit IRC19:22
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool19:40
*** gpaci has joined #schooltool19:55
*** Newfie2007_ has joined #schooltool20:51
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool20:58
*** povbot` has joined #schooltool21:20
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool21:34
*** povbot has quit IRC21:38
*** alga has quit IRC21:43
*** Newfie2007_ is now known as Newfie200721:48
*** Newfie2007 has quit IRC22:02
*** Aiste has quit IRC22:20
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool22:21
*** gpaci has quit IRC22:28
*** jelkner has quit IRC22:46
*** jelkner has joined #schooltool22:49
*** Ninno has joined #schooltool22:55
*** jelkner has quit IRC22:58
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool23:09
*** alga has quit IRC23:19
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool23:19
*** D`ArtaGnaN is now known as wjohnsto23:26
*** povbot has joined #schooltool23:42
*** mgedmin has quit IRC23:53

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!