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| Lumiere | morning all | 15:50 |
|---|---|---|
| ignas | hi | 15:50 |
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| jfroche | hello | 16:15 |
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| Lumiere | th1a: good morning | 16:32 |
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| ignas | th1a: hello | 16:35 |
| th1a | Hey. | 16:36 |
| th1a | Hi Lumiere, ignas, jfroche. | 16:36 |
| jfroche | hello | 16:36 |
| th1a | Sorry I'm late. | 16:36 |
| Lumiere | no problem | 16:37 |
| th1a | jfroche: Would you like to start us off? | 16:37 |
| jfroche | yup, working with views on gradebook | 16:38 |
| jfroche | fighting with formlib | 16:38 |
| jfroche | hope to show off some views this week to the school | 16:38 |
| jfroche | it's not the final report yet | 16:39 |
| jfroche | that's pretty much all for the moment | 16:39 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:40 |
| th1a | Sounds good. | 16:40 |
| th1a | ignas? | 16:40 |
| ignas | As i still could not arrange meeting with Bronius (will be trying a lot harder this week). | 16:41 |
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| ignas | i worked on the student gradebook views | 16:42 |
| ignas | and nice functional tests for them | 16:42 |
| ignas | added the average column | 16:42 |
| ignas | and started working on merging stuff from lyceum branch to trunk | 16:42 |
| ignas | as we are planning on feature freeze this july | 16:42 |
| ignas | that's kind of it. | 16:43 |
| th1a | Yes, merging into trunk is good. | 16:43 |
| ignas | i must meet with Bronius to discuss attendance views | 16:43 |
| ignas | before working on them | 16:43 |
| th1a | Thanks ignas. | 16:44 |
| th1a | Lumiere? | 16:44 |
| Lumiere | I don't really have much | 16:45 |
| Lumiere | mostly it is steady progression of the CanDo user stories | 16:45 |
| Lumiere | into the trac wiki | 16:45 |
| Lumiere | 2 weeks to the beginning of the summer internship and major development | 16:46 |
| Lumiere | pcardune is currently in .th | 16:46 |
| th1a | Right. | 16:46 |
| Lumiere | I did see him on earlier | 16:46 |
| Lumiere | so he has some level of net | 16:46 |
| th1a | When will he be back? | 16:46 |
| Lumiere | Sun, 17 Jun | 16:47 |
| th1a | My major innovation last week was figuring out how to really use the debugging features of Wing IDE, | 16:48 |
| th1a | which made me wonder how much time I would have saved had I done that sooner. | 16:48 |
| th1a | Unfortunately, probably a lot. | 16:48 |
| Lumiere | lol | 16:49 |
| Lumiere | you wanted to talk permissions? | 16:49 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:49 |
| th1a | Want to make sure everyone knows what the concerns are there. | 16:49 |
| th1a | I had a chat with Dave Welsh on Friday. | 16:50 |
| th1a | Basically, at some point they discovered that their CanDo instances really weren't as secure as they thought. | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | I can cover that | 16:51 |
| th1a | Go ahead. | 16:51 |
| Lumiere | we dicovered that google was able to spider a cando (or schooltool) instance where the everyone can see person data access control was turned on | 16:52 |
| jfroche | off ? | 16:52 |
| Lumiere | pcardune had turned it on, because he had needed it to allow cando journaling to get the name of the journal at the time | 16:52 |
| Lumiere | jfroche: by default in schooltool, person data is protected | 16:52 |
| Lumiere | we toggled that access control | 16:53 |
| th1a | Hm... now I'm confused. | 16:53 |
| th1a | Why is that surprising? | 16:53 |
| Lumiere | it is surprising because an unauthorized user | 16:53 |
| Lumiere | should never EVER have access to anything | 16:53 |
| ignas | err | 16:54 |
| th1a | Other than a reminder that we should really have a restrictive robots.txt by default. | 16:54 |
| ignas | the checkbox says - everyone | 16:54 |
| th1a | Oh, right. | 16:54 |
| ignas | if you want - authenticated - that's fixable | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | they assumed incorrectly at the time everyone to be authenticated | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | I personally | 16:54 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:54 |
| th1a | This is a slightly different problem than I thought. | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | would like to see access controls given to groups, not globals | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | but, that's another thing to talk about | 16:55 |
| Lumiere | at some other time :) | 16:55 |
| th1a | It certainly can be made as complicated as you'd like. | 16:55 |
| th1a | But then it gets complicated. | 16:55 |
| Lumiere | yes | 16:55 |
| Lumiere | which is also a problem | 16:55 |
| jfroche | z3 provides advanced views for changing security on objects | 16:56 |
| Lumiere | configuration is a delicate balance between what is needed to operate and so much data that it is unconfigurable | 16:56 |
| th1a | So I guess the question is, if CanDo wants to have a different policy for viewing persons, what should they do? | 16:56 |
| th1a | I mean, is that changable just in ZCML? | 16:57 |
| th1a | Or have we set up the system so that it is difficult to distinguish between "anyone" and "authorized users." | 16:57 |
| ignas | we can change the wording if anyone will come up with a better one | 16:59 |
| ignas | as for ZCML - changing the meaning of the checkbox through ZCML is not doable | 16:59 |
| ignas | making resources available to authenticated persons | 17:00 |
| ignas | is doable through zcml though | 17:00 |
| ignas | (i think) | 17:00 |
| th1a | Right. I wouldn't expect to be able to change the meaning of the checkbox. | 17:01 |
| th1a | Well, it is good that I understand better what the problem was. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Actually, I guess the real problem was that pcardune thought it was necessary to change the permission to code the journal. | 17:03 |
| th1a | Anyhow, one suggestion I had was more access-control related functional tests for CanDo. | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | that is planned | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | somehow I'll get elkner to understand that I have to put interns on it | 17:05 |
| th1a | Yes. It is really necessary if you're going to have other schools using it. | 17:05 |
| ignas | this part is functionally tested in schooltool | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | I think it is more that when 06 was written | 17:05 |
| ignas | so it's not a testing problem, just that expectations did not match | 17:05 |
| th1a | ignas: Yes, this makes sense. | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | pcardune was still learning permissions | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | so he didn't know how to get at the person data | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | without that access control off | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | I think what dwelsh is more looking for | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | is how he can get cando's permissions to match schooltools or some such | 17:06 |
| ignas | what do you mean "match" ? | 17:06 |
| th1a | What he really needs is different permissions for CanDo. | 17:07 |
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| Lumiere | th1a: he's started laying them out | 17:07 |
| Lumiere | ignas: integrated permissions | 17:07 |
| th1a | There are some issues whe've discussed where CanDo's needs are just different from the norm for an SIS. | 17:07 |
| ignas | integrated? | 17:07 |
| th1a | Basically giving teachers somewhat more power to change their sections around then they'd normally have. | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | that's a problem I have | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | he's not thinking from a standard school's viewpoint of cando there | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | he's thinking of ACC | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | where HE wants to give them more power | 17:08 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | there are a bunch of those | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | that need to be in a group configuration screen | 17:09 |
| ignas | ACC? | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | Arlington Career Center | 17:09 |
| ignas | oh | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | it's the main customer of cando | 17:09 |
| th1a | Nonetheless, this is something we'll need to be able to explain to people in the future. | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | that's one to write down | 17:09 |
| th1a | How to write a custom security policy. | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | it would be a good howto on the st.org site | 17:09 |
| th1a | A configuration. | 17:09 |
| ignas | Lumiere: if have some precise requirements, i might look at them | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | ignas: I'll get you the link... | 17:10 |
| ignas | though - adding something like a set of "checkboxes" for every group | 17:10 |
| ignas | that add capabilities to these groups | 17:10 |
| ignas | is quite easy to do | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | that's how I invisioned permissions | 17:11 |
| Lumiere | http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pZiKmHI-5w7CzcELs9ZygNQ | 17:11 |
| Lumiere | that spreadsheet is dwelsh's view of permissions | 17:11 |
| Lumiere | which I think I've knocked some of the ACC specific things out of now | 17:12 |
| ignas | "by invitation" ? | 17:12 |
| th1a | That might not be so easy. | 17:13 |
| Lumiere | yea | 17:13 |
| Lumiere | ignas: personal blogs are for the student and people they want to be on it | 17:13 |
| Lumiere | so anyone who is going to be able to either view or post to it has to be invited | 17:14 |
| ignas | so you already have views to edit the list of invitees? | 17:14 |
| th1a | Perhaps you'd need to make the permissions based on a relationship. | 17:14 |
| Lumiere | ignas: I believe so | 17:15 |
| ignas | hmm, the only part that might interfere with schooltool is "IV. Students, Courses & Sections" | 17:16 |
| ignas | other things are for you to do | 17:16 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:17 |
| Lumiere | those for their sections | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | are going to need to be configuration options | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | in section IV | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | even an 'Advanced Teacher' group | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | that is allowed to edit their course | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | would be better then just opening it up | 17:18 |
| th1a | Lumiere: You know, perhaps this is also related to the "clerks" group concept. | 17:20 |
| Lumiere | yes, although clerk isn't a name I'd use for it | 17:20 |
| th1a | Maybe Welsh is just thinking of a school where the teachers have to act as clerks. | 17:20 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | is there a definition of a clerk | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | that could be posted | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | I think his thought of a teacher with some administrative privs is similar to your concept of a clerk | 17:21 |
| th1a | Well, the difference between a clerk and an administrator is that an administrator can override things like grades that a clerk would have no business touching. | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | sounds right | 17:22 |
| th1a | It is still a bit more permissions than you'd normally give teachers -- a clerk generally needs to see other teachers grades (to do reports) but a teacher normally wouldn't have that permissions, for example. | 17:23 |
| th1a | But it is closer. | 17:23 |
| th1a | I will write a definition of clerk. | 17:23 |
| Lumiere | I think dwelsh's thought is close to a clerk | 17:23 |
| Lumiere | I do not thing it is as permissive | 17:23 |
| th1a | A clerk that can't delete students ;-) | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | well, the clerk shouldn't be able to change courses other then ones they lead sections of | 17:24 |
| th1a | Normally, a clerk is a person sitting in the office. | 17:25 |
| th1a | I'm saying, if we wanted to switch this around for CanDo in the simplest way, we might just make teachers also clerks. That is, however, a hack. | 17:26 |
| th1a | Not necessarily a good hack. | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | yea | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | I'd rather have a group created that does what we need | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh is out till wednesday | 17:27 |
| th1a | It probably just requires some custom coding. | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:27 |
| th1a | XML. | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | I can let pcardune worry about that part | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | sucks to be him... doesn't it ;) | 17:28 |
| th1a | That depends on how much fun Thailand is. | 17:28 |
| th1a | OK... are we done here? Any last words? | 17:29 |
| th1a | I need your invoices for May. | 17:29 |
| th1a | My wife is on unpaid leave so I'd like to get these in. | 17:29 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:30 | |
| ACSpike[Work] | OT: anyone have experience with lxml? | 17:30 |
| th1a | ACSpike[Work]: Yes. | 17:30 |
| ACSpike[Work] | mind sharing your experience? | 17:31 |
| th1a | I've used it and ElementTree extensively and happily. | 17:31 |
| ACSpike[Work] | excellent. | 17:31 |
| ACSpike[Work] | I'm looking for a replacement for the python extensions in inkscape. had been using pyxml. | 17:31 |
| th1a | Also, lxml makes accessing various things in libxml2, like schema validation, much more pleasant. | 17:32 |
| ACSpike[Work] | I'm concerned about real XPath supprot | 17:32 |
| ACSpike[Work] | any idea why pyxml went unmaintained? | 17:33 |
| th1a | Not really. | 17:33 |
| ignas | also libxml2 is very fast and buggy, so you will have to add workarounds | 17:33 |
| th1a | There is a long history of dueling XML libraries in Python. | 17:33 |
| ACSpike[Work] | dueling implies two? there are thousands | 17:35 |
| th1a | It is a mulit-party duel. | 17:35 |
| ACSpike[Work] | I think element tree api is winning | 17:35 |
| th1a | It is in the standard distribution. | 17:36 |
| ACSpike[Work] | yup | 17:36 |
| ACSpike[Work] | well, I think that was the vote of confidence I needed. | 17:36 |
| ACSpike[Work] | I'll have to see how difficult it is to get it on OSX | 17:36 |
| th1a | The problem is you have to get everything lined up with the right version of libxml2. | 17:39 |
| th1a | Which I think ships with Mac OS X, so you need to figure out which one you've got and if you need to change it. | 17:40 |
| ACSpike[Work] | well, for releases on osx and windows we can probably ship with it | 17:40 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:40 |
| ACSpike[Work] | windows we certainly do | 17:40 |
| ACSpike[Work] | we ship python too | 17:40 |
| ACSpike[Work] | linux is actually more of a problem :-) | 17:40 |
| ACSpike[Work] | ubuntu has lxml all the way back to breezy, that's a good sign. | 17:42 |
| th1a | It is easier to just distribute big lumps on Windows and Mac. | 17:42 |
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| jfroche | ignas: UnpickleableError: Cannot pickle <type 'zope.security._proxy._Proxy'> objects ... this is related to a removeSecurityProxy that i forgot ? | 17:46 |
| ignas | yes | 17:46 |
| jfroche | tkx | 17:46 |
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| jfroche | ignas: event ordering problem, i would like to change info about the manager after bootstrap ... which event should my subscriber listen to ? ApplicationInitializationEvent is too early, ObjectAddedEvent also ... | 21:19 |
| ignas | hmm | 21:20 |
| ignas | in trunk - there is a method for person factory | 21:20 |
| ignas | that creates the manager user | 21:20 |
| ignas | you should use it | 21:20 |
| jfroche | it isn't app.main.restoreManagerUser ? | 21:21 |
| ignas | no | 21:21 |
| ignas | trunk | 21:21 |
| ignas | createManagerUser | 21:22 |
| ignas | of IPersonFactory | 21:22 |
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| aelkner | th1a: are you there? | 22:46 |
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