IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2007-06-04

*** jfroche has quit IRC00:04
*** didymo has joined #schooltool01:09
*** gpaci has quit IRC02:31
*** alga has quit IRC06:05
*** Bhaskar_tec has joined #schooltool07:10
*** Bhaskar_tec has quit IRC07:12
*** Bhaskar_tech has joined #schooltool07:13
*** Bhaskar_tech has quit IRC07:17
*** Bhaskar_tech has joined #schooltool07:19
*** Bhaskar_tech has quit IRC07:20
*** Bhaskar_tech has joined #schooltool07:22
*** E-nnovative has joined #schooltool07:24
*** didymo has quit IRC07:30
*** lameiro has quit IRC07:40
*** pcardune has joined #schooltool08:01
*** ankit has joined #schooltool09:50
*** jfroche has joined #schooltool10:43
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool10:45
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool10:46
*** Fujitsu_ is now known as Fujitsu11:13
*** ankit has left #schooltool11:32
*** kitblake has joined #schooltool11:54
*** alga has quit IRC11:55
*** thisfred has joined #schooltool11:59
*** didymo has joined #schooltool12:27
*** ignas has joined #schooltool13:41
*** E-nnovative has quit IRC13:49
*** pcardune_ has joined #schooltool13:56
*** didymo has quit IRC14:13
*** pcardune has quit IRC14:14
*** alga has joined #SchoolTool14:57
*** Aiste has quit IRC15:05
*** Aiste has joined #schooltool15:12
Lumieremorning all15:50
*** Newfie2007 has joined #schooltool16:00
*** gpaci has joined #schooltool16:25
Lumiereth1a: good morning16:32
*** thisfred has quit IRC16:33
ignasth1a: hello16:35
th1aHi Lumiere, ignas, jfroche.16:36
th1aSorry I'm late.16:36
Lumiereno problem16:37
th1ajfroche: Would you like to start us off?16:37
jfrocheyup, working with views on gradebook16:38
jfrochefighting with formlib16:38
jfrochehope to show off some views this week to the school16:38
jfrocheit's not the final report yet16:39
jfrochethat's pretty much all for the moment16:39
th1aSounds good.16:40
ignasAs i still could not arrange meeting with Bronius (will be trying a lot harder this week).16:41
*** ACSpike[Work] has joined #schooltool16:41
ignasi worked on the student gradebook views16:42
ignasand nice functional tests for them16:42
ignasadded the average column16:42
ignasand started working on merging stuff from lyceum branch to trunk16:42
ignasas we are planning on feature freeze this july16:42
ignasthat's kind of it.16:43
th1aYes, merging into trunk is good.16:43
ignasi must meet with Bronius to discuss attendance views16:43
ignasbefore working on them16:43
th1aThanks ignas.16:44
LumiereI don't really have much16:45
Lumieremostly it is steady progression of the CanDo user stories16:45
Lumiereinto the trac wiki16:45
Lumiere2 weeks to the beginning of the summer internship and major development16:46
Lumierepcardune is currently in .th16:46
LumiereI did see him on earlier16:46
Lumiereso he has some level of net16:46
th1aWhen will he be back?16:46
LumiereSun, 17 Jun16:47
th1aMy major innovation last week was figuring out how to really use the debugging features of Wing IDE,16:48
th1awhich made me wonder how much time I would have saved had I done that sooner.16:48
th1aUnfortunately, probably a lot.16:48
Lumiereyou wanted to talk permissions?16:49
th1aWant to make sure everyone knows what the concerns are there.16:49
th1aI had a chat with Dave Welsh on Friday.16:50
th1aBasically, at some point they discovered that their CanDo instances really weren't as secure as they thought.16:51
LumiereI can cover that16:51
th1aGo ahead.16:51
Lumierewe dicovered that google was able to spider a cando (or schooltool) instance where the everyone can see person data access control was turned on16:52
jfrocheoff ?16:52
Lumierepcardune had turned it on, because he had needed it to allow cando journaling to get the name of the journal at the time16:52
Lumierejfroche: by default in schooltool, person data is protected16:52
Lumierewe toggled that access control16:53
th1aHm... now I'm confused.16:53
th1aWhy is that surprising?16:53
Lumiereit is surprising because an unauthorized user16:53
Lumiereshould never EVER have access to anything16:53
th1aOther than a reminder that we should really have a restrictive robots.txt by default.16:54
ignasthe checkbox says - everyone16:54
th1aOh, right.16:54
ignasif you want - authenticated - that's fixable16:54
Lumierethey assumed incorrectly at the time everyone to be authenticated16:54
LumiereI personally16:54
th1aThis is a slightly different problem than I thought.16:54
Lumierewould like to see access controls given to groups, not globals16:54
Lumierebut, that's another thing to talk about16:55
Lumiereat some other time :)16:55
th1aIt certainly can be made as complicated as you'd like.16:55
th1aBut then it gets complicated.16:55
Lumierewhich is also a problem16:55
jfrochez3 provides advanced views for changing security on objects16:56
Lumiereconfiguration is a delicate balance between what is needed to operate and so much data that it is unconfigurable16:56
th1aSo I guess the question is, if CanDo wants to have a different policy  for viewing persons, what should they do?16:56
th1aI mean, is that changable just in ZCML?16:57
th1aOr have we set up the system so that it is difficult to distinguish between "anyone" and "authorized users."16:57
ignaswe can change the wording if anyone will come up with a better one16:59
ignasas for ZCML - changing the meaning of the checkbox through ZCML is not doable16:59
ignasmaking resources available to authenticated persons17:00
ignasis doable through zcml though17:00
ignas(i think)17:00
th1aRight.  I wouldn't expect to be able to change the meaning of the checkbox.17:01
th1aWell, it is good that I understand better what the problem was.17:02
th1aActually, I guess the real problem was that pcardune thought it was necessary to change the permission to code the journal.17:03
th1aAnyhow, one suggestion I had was more access-control related functional tests for CanDo.17:04
Lumierethat is planned17:04
Lumieresomehow I'll get elkner to understand that I have to put interns on it17:05
th1aYes.  It is really necessary if you're going to have other schools using it.17:05
ignasthis part is functionally tested in schooltool17:05
LumiereI think it is more that when 06 was written17:05
ignasso it's not a testing problem, just that expectations did not match17:05
th1aignas: Yes, this makes sense.17:05
Lumierepcardune was still learning permissions17:05
Lumiereso he didn't know how to get at the person data17:05
Lumierewithout that access control off17:06
LumiereI think what dwelsh is more looking for17:06
Lumiereis how he can get cando's permissions to match schooltools or some such17:06
ignaswhat do you mean "match" ?17:06
th1aWhat he really needs is different permissions for CanDo.17:07
*** pcardune_ has quit IRC17:07
Lumiereth1a: he's started laying them out17:07
Lumiereignas: integrated permissions17:07
th1aThere are some issues whe've discussed where CanDo's needs are just different from the norm for an SIS.17:07
th1aBasically giving teachers somewhat more power to change their sections around then they'd normally have.17:08
Lumierethat's a problem I have17:08
Lumierehe's not thinking from a standard school's viewpoint of cando there17:08
Lumierehe's thinking of ACC17:08
Lumierewhere HE wants to give them more power17:08
Lumierethere are a bunch of those17:08
Lumierethat need to be in a group configuration screen17:09
LumiereArlington Career Center17:09
Lumiereit's the main customer of cando17:09
th1aNonetheless, this is something we'll need to be able to explain to people in the future.17:09
Lumierethat's one to write down17:09
th1aHow to write a custom security policy.17:09
Lumiereit would be a good howto on the site17:09
th1aA configuration.17:09
ignasLumiere: if have some precise requirements, i might look at them17:09
Lumiereignas: I'll get you the link...17:10
ignasthough - adding something like a set of "checkboxes" for every group17:10
ignasthat add capabilities to these groups17:10
ignasis quite easy to do17:10
Lumierethat's how I invisioned permissions17:11
Lumierethat spreadsheet is dwelsh's view of permissions17:11
Lumierewhich I think I've knocked some of the ACC specific things out of now17:12
ignas"by invitation" ?17:12
th1aThat might not be so easy.17:13
Lumiereignas: personal blogs are for the student and people they want to be on it17:13
Lumiereso anyone who is going to be able to either view or post to it has to be invited17:14
ignasso you already have views to edit the list of invitees?17:14
th1aPerhaps you'd need to make the permissions based on a relationship.17:14
Lumiereignas: I believe so17:15
ignashmm, the only part that might interfere with schooltool is "IV. Students, Courses & Sections"17:16
ignasother things are for you to do17:16
Lumierethose for their sections17:18
Lumiereare going to need to be configuration options17:18
Lumierein section IV17:18
Lumiereeven an 'Advanced Teacher' group17:18
Lumierethat is allowed to edit their course17:18
Lumierewould be better then just opening it up17:18
th1aLumiere: You know, perhaps this is also related to the "clerks" group concept.17:20
Lumiereyes, although clerk isn't a name I'd use for it17:20
th1aMaybe Welsh is just thinking of a school where the teachers have to act as clerks.17:20
Lumiereis there a definition of a clerk17:21
Lumierethat could be posted17:21
LumiereI think his thought of a teacher with some administrative privs is similar to your concept of a clerk17:21
th1aWell, the difference between a clerk and an administrator is that an administrator can override things like grades that a clerk would have no business touching.17:21
Lumieresounds right17:22
th1aIt is still a bit more permissions than you'd normally give teachers -- a clerk generally needs to see other teachers grades (to do reports) but a teacher normally wouldn't have that permissions, for example.17:23
th1aBut it is closer.17:23
th1aI will write a definition of clerk.17:23
LumiereI think dwelsh's thought is close to a clerk17:23
LumiereI do not thing it is as permissive17:23
th1aA clerk that can't delete students ;-)17:24
Lumierewell, the clerk shouldn't be able to change courses other then ones they lead sections of17:24
th1aNormally, a clerk is a person sitting in the office.17:25
th1aI'm saying, if we wanted to switch this around for CanDo in the simplest way, we might just make teachers also clerks.  That is, however, a hack.17:26
th1aNot necessarily a good hack.17:26
LumiereI'd rather have a group created that does what we need17:26
Lumieredwelsh is out till wednesday17:27
th1aIt probably just requires some custom coding.17:27
LumiereI can let pcardune worry about that part17:27
Lumieresucks to be him... doesn't it ;)17:28
th1aThat depends on how much fun Thailand is.17:28
th1aOK... are we done here?  Any last words?17:29
th1aI need your invoices for May.17:29
th1aMy wife is on unpaid leave so I'd like to get these in.17:29
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:30
ACSpike[Work]OT: anyone have experience with lxml?17:30
th1aACSpike[Work]: Yes.17:30
ACSpike[Work]mind sharing your experience?17:31
th1aI've used it and ElementTree extensively and happily.17:31
ACSpike[Work]I'm looking for a replacement for the python extensions in inkscape. had been using pyxml.17:31
th1aAlso, lxml makes accessing various things in libxml2, like schema validation, much more pleasant.17:32
ACSpike[Work]I'm concerned about real XPath supprot17:32
ACSpike[Work]any idea why pyxml went unmaintained?17:33
th1aNot really.17:33
ignasalso libxml2 is very fast and buggy, so you will have to add workarounds17:33
th1aThere is a long history of dueling XML libraries in Python.17:33
ACSpike[Work]dueling implies two? there are thousands17:35
th1aIt is a mulit-party duel.17:35
ACSpike[Work]I think element tree api is winning17:35
th1aIt is in the standard distribution.17:36
ACSpike[Work]well, I think that was the vote of confidence I needed.17:36
ACSpike[Work]I'll have to see how difficult it is to get it on OSX17:36
th1aThe problem is you have to get everything lined up with the right version of libxml2.17:39
th1aWhich I think ships with Mac OS X, so you need to figure out which one you've got and if you need to change it.17:40
ACSpike[Work]well, for releases on osx and windows we can probably ship with it17:40
ACSpike[Work]windows we certainly do17:40
ACSpike[Work]we ship python too17:40
ACSpike[Work]linux is actually more of a problem :-)17:40
ACSpike[Work]ubuntu has lxml all the way back to breezy, that's a good sign.17:42
th1aIt is easier to just distribute big lumps on Windows and Mac.17:42
*** mattva01 has joined #schooltool17:44
jfrocheignas: UnpickleableError: Cannot pickle <type ''> objects ... this is related to a removeSecurityProxy that i forgot ?17:46
*** mgedmin has joined #schooltool17:47
*** mattva01 has quit IRC18:00
*** ACSpike[Work] has left #schooltool19:06
*** gpaci has quit IRC19:24
*** gpaci has joined #schooltool20:05
*** Aiste has quit IRC20:44
*** alga has quit IRC20:55
jfrocheignas: event ordering problem, i would like to change info about the manager after bootstrap ... which event should my subscriber listen to ? ApplicationInitializationEvent is too early, ObjectAddedEvent also ...21:19
ignasin trunk - there is a method for person factory21:20
ignasthat creates the manager user21:20
ignasyou should use it21:20
jfrocheit isn't app.main.restoreManagerUser ?21:21
ignasof IPersonFactory21:22
*** ignas has quit IRC21:24
*** Newfie2007 has left #schooltool22:00
*** aelkner has joined #schooltool22:44
aelknerth1a: are you there?22:46
*** aelkner has quit IRC22:57
*** mgedmin has quit IRC23:56

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!