IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2006-12-04

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* th1a shuffles some papers around.16:29
ignasth1a: hi16:29
th1aIt looks like they won't be tearing my copper wires out 'til noon, so we should be fine.16:30
th1aignas: hi.16:30
th1ajfroche: Hi.16:30
jfrochehello there16:30
th1aSo... tell me about the Brussels Summit.16:31
jfrochewas really really really nice to have Ignas nearby16:31
jfrochelearnt a lot of things16:31
jfrochehope that we will be able to do it again soon16:32
jfrochewe went mainly into Person16:32
jfrochebut encountered many problems regarding the customization of a Person16:33
jfroche& solve one problem i had with ressources linked to the onlinehelp16:33
th1aSo what's the status of onlinehelp now?16:34
th1ai18n ready?16:34
ignasi think so16:35
ignasif those who will write docs will use pt templates16:35
th1aThat's the only catch ;-)16:36
th1aHow is that different than XHTML in practice?16:36
th1aIn this case.16:36
th1a(I know how it is different in general)16:37
jfrochejust use the right template16:37
jfrocheand thats ok16:37
jfrochebut after that the user has to register the page into zcml16:37
jfrochewhich is kind of non user job16:37
jfrocheso i was looking at a solution so register all pt in all packages having a help folder16:38
th1aSo if a non-coder writes an HTML help page, it is easy enough to add whatever templating is necessary?16:38
jfrochea few lines to add16:38
jfrocheand now you the menu on the left16:38
jfrocheso if you are looking at help about person you can link to the other help files on the left16:39
th1aAh so the user can navigate through help files?16:40
th1aThat's good.16:40
th1aIs that in the trunk now?16:40
jfrochein my branch for the moment16:40
jfrochewanted to have green light to put it in trunk16:41
th1aI'll take a look at it.16:41
jfrocheit's on the vauban branch16:41
th1aSo what happened with the Person work?16:42
ignas1. we started using zc.table for some views (relationship editing)16:42
ignasthen we wanted to add a new kind of person16:43
ignaswhich required rewriting some parts of person factory registration as local utilities + subscribers were not working out16:43
ignasafter that we added a new kind of person, which kind of worked but was way too difficult for my taste ...16:44
ignasi mean it was like 200 lines of python + 130 lines of zcml16:44
ignasjust to remove everything except for nameinfo+ schooldata and have them without some fields ...16:44
th1aWhat do you mean by a new kind of person?16:44
ignaslyceum person16:44
ignaswith narrowed down demographics ...16:44
ignaswe don't really want that much info in there ...16:45
jfroche(i ll need another kind of person too without the different demographics and maybe with other fields)16:45
th1aWas it difficult because of how the demographics package was implemented?16:45
th1aWell, keep in mind that at this point nothing is sacred.16:46
ignaswe also worked on problems with i18n of the date widget and online help resources16:46
ignasth1a: i know, i am thinking of a way to fix things ...16:46
th1aIf something needs to be ripped out to simplify, rip it out.16:46
th1aIf it is too difficult for your tastes, it is too difficult, period.16:47
ignasindeed, i found myself very frustrated with some parts of zcml that just had to be copy and pasted to get it working16:47
th1azcml hasn't been getting much love in general lately.16:48
th1aSo you at least ended up with the Person you wanted?16:48
jfrocheit's really nice code but it seems to me that the one who wrote the architecture around Person never tried to implement another kind of Person16:49
ignasyes, but i was unable to fix some functional tests ... which is a problem of either the way persons are made, or the schooltool test runner ...16:49
ignasi don't know which one of these is easier to fix ...16:49
th1aI hate those dilemmas.16:51
ignaswell, it's a technical so it's up to me to decide ;)16:51
th1aI'm not stepping into it.16:51
th1ajfroche: So what did you learn?16:52
jfrochea lot of zope3 stuff16:52
jfrochehistory about some implementations16:53
jfrochesomeignas way of coding16:53
th1aDo you feel more capable of diving into SchoolTool on your own?16:54
jfrocheyes but i need still to learn16:54
jfrochei feel some part over generalized16:55
th1aYes, it is a steep curve, unfortunately.16:55
th1aSome parts of your understanding are too general?16:55
jfrocheand sometimes not really aware on how to do things without breaking and keep things nice16:55
jfrochemean that schooltool is full of very nice peace of code, taking a lot of usecase in mind but to override these peace to my sauce ...16:56
jfrocheit seems sometimes hard16:57
th1aThe implementation is general and it doesn't fit your specific case.16:57
jfrochenot always and change it isn't always so easy16:58
th1aIt is important for us to be getting first hand experience with this.16:58
jfrochemean that without a zope3 programmer skills, schooltool can't be deployed yet16:59
th1aBecause making something that can be reasonably modified is probably more important than trying to make something that encompasses every case.16:59
th1ajfroche: Yes.  That's where we're stuck.16:59
th1aI'd be happy getting to the point where just an average Python hacker could make small modifications.17:00
jfrocheuser shouldn't have to dig into zcml, nor into python17:00
jfrochesimple config file should help17:00
th1ajfroche: Ultimately, yes.17:00
jfrocheand schooltool config file is really small there17:01
ignasin a year or two, maybe17:01
ignasnow even with zope3 skills - you can't deploy it ;)17:01
jfrocheignas told me that before you were generating zcml from config file ?17:01
ignasno, not from config file17:01
ignasjust generating i think17:01
ignascan't remember why ;)17:01
th1aSo... do you know what you need to work on next, jfroche?17:03
jfrochemy next point are: having a good system to help Denis, Nicolas to translate schooltool17:03
jfrocheand have a system to not force them writting zcml when they write new help file17:04
jfrochei spoke with Denis today17:04
jfrocheabout the authorization17:04
th1aOK.  So not using Rosetta?17:04
th1aHow's that coming?17:05
jfrochehe still have no news ...17:05
jfrocheschoolmaster is ill now17:05
jfrochei told him again about the fact that if we don't have news we might have to look elsewhere17:05
jfrochehe asked me to wait 1 more week17:06
jfrochebut he understand17:06
jfrocheso if we don't have the news i ll begin to knock at other school's door17:06
th1aOK.  But La Futaie is set?17:06
jfrocheno neither17:07
jfrochesame problem17:07
jfrochei ll phone Nicolas now17:07
th1aI'll send them an email, too.17:08
th1aSo you're working up something to do translation without using Rosetta?17:08
jfrocheright because i have the same problem as ignas17:09
th1aWhich is?17:10
jfrochenot having a search is problematic17:10
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jfrochethe search problem17:11
th1aShould we ask Steve about this?17:11
ignasnot much steve can do ...17:11
ignasit's in their TODO list for like 2 years17:12
th1aIsn't there another existing app we can use?17:12
jfrochei ll use the same one as ignas i think17:12
th1aI hate to spend time on this kind of infrastructure if we can avoid it.17:12
th1aOK, so you're not talking about writing something new.17:13
jfrocheno not at all using an existing tool17:13
th1aOK.  Sorry.  Got confused about your intentions.17:14
jfrocheand upload is still not available on rosetta (
th1aThat's fine then.17:14
th1aingas:  What are your plans for the week?17:15
ignasth1a: make i18n on datetimewidget work, make a plan+work on the person, continue working on the timetable events17:17
th1aOK.  It would be good to get the timetable events settled since the CanDo folks want to start working on calendar-related stuff.17:18
ignasoh, and i should talk to pcardune about timetable events as well17:19
th1aI'm going to be working on my generic SIF agent.17:20
th1aignas:  We're going to need an explanation of how to run SchoolTool with ZEO.17:20
ignasemm, it's like 5 lines of config and 1 command to launch the ZEO server17:21
th1aI didn't think it would be much.17:21
ignasi can paste them now if you want17:21
th1aCan you email them?17:21
th1aAll right, anything else?17:22
th1aHow often would you guys like to meet up next year?17:22
jfrochefor me ? every month :)17:24
jfrochelearning curve is less steep with ignas next to me17:24
th1aWell, maybe I should propose every month for the first four of 2007, or something like that.17:25
th1aThen every two months.17:25
ignasthat might work17:25
th1aI'll be working on the budget.17:26
th1aI'm stalling a little because I'd like to have the schools settled.17:26
jfrocheso do i17:26
th1aAll right.  I think we're done here.17:26
th1aI'm going to see what's going on in the house here.  I've got people working on three different things at once.17:27
th1aHave a good week!17:27
jfroche:) good luck :)17:27
th1aGlad the trip last week was a success.17:27
* th1a drops the bag of gravel.17:27
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Lumieregood afternoon everyone19:56
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jelknerhi tom20:00
jelkneri talked to dave this morning, and i'm hoping he will be here20:01
Lumierehi elkner...20:01
th1aI'll probably disappear here at some point.  They're going to turn off my copper phone wire and turn on the fiber optic.20:01
Lumierehe's about to log on20:01
th1aFiber to the home, baby!20:01
Lumiereth1a: going FiOS?20:01
jelknerrock on!20:01
th1aFiOS, mofo!20:01
LumiereI've been on FiOS for a couple years here20:01
jelknerok, you two are scaring me ;-)20:01
Lumiereit ROCKS mah SOCKS :)20:01
jelknerwhat is FiOS?20:01
th1aReally.  I thought I was the first.20:01
jelknerand what is mofo?20:01
LumiereVerizon's Fiber to the House solution20:01
th1auh... motherfucker?20:02
jelkneri see20:02
Lumierethings that shouldn't be on school computers ;)20:02
jelknersorry i asked20:02
th1aHopefully your school's filter caught that.20:02
Lumiereth1a: my corner of the DC area was one of the beta test area20:02
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Lumierewe're at 5/220:02
Lumiereand loving it20:02
jelknerit didn't :-(20:02
jelknerirc isn't filtered20:03
dwelshwelsh here, but not for that long20:03
jelknerso, what is FiOS?20:03
th1aHi dwelsh.20:03
LumiereVerizon's Fiber to the House solution20:03
th1aAs much bandwidth as you want to pay for, basically.20:03
jelknerdwelsh: is pcardune going to make today?20:03
dwelshcalling him now20:03
LumiereMy family pays $40 and get 5m down 2m up20:04
jelkneri don't have a phone20:04
jelknerlet's do this here20:04
Lumierefor another like 15 you get 15 down 2 up20:04
th1aDoesn't seem worth it.20:04
Lumiere5/2 is plenty20:04
dwelshPaul's not picking up20:04
dwelshHope he's coming'20:04
th1aIt is still $100 to get a static IP.20:04
th1aThat drives me nuts.20:05
jelknerok, gentleman, i have limited time20:05
jelknerto the meeting...20:05
jelkner1. PyCon20:05
jelknerwe can do this with or without pcardune20:05
jelkner2. the wiki20:05
jelkneranything else?20:05
dwelshand site infrastructure in general20:06
dwelshmay say a word about Dec. sprint, too20:06
Lumiereth1a: I just run dyndns and a cname20:06
th1aAs I said in my email, we'll have Jean-Francois and Ignas at PyCon if they can get in the country.20:06
th1aLumiere: I've tried that.  As of a couple years ago I couldn't really get it to work consistently.20:06
dwelshWho's going from our end, Jeff20:06
jelknerany idea when you will know?20:07
th1aBy the end of the month.20:07
th1aI'm stalling on submitting a budget to see if we can get the Belgian schools finalized.20:07
jelknerpycon starts on Friday and runs through Sunday20:07
jelkner(3 days)20:07
jelknerthen there are 4 days of sprints20:07
dwelshwhat are the dates?20:07
jelknerFeb 23-25 for the conference20:08
jelknerFeb 26-29 for the sprint20:08
Lumierewhere is PyCon?20:08
jelknerfrom our end: Paul Carduner, Will Dickerson, Alan Elkner, and I20:09
jelknerplus one of last summer's interns (either Linda or Robbie)20:09
jelknerPaul, Will and I can only stay for two of the sprint days20:09
jelknerAlan can stay all 420:10
jelknerthe sprint is where the real work will get done20:10
dwelshAnd where is it?20:10
jelknerbut the conference is a great learning experience for the studens20:10
jelknernear dallas, tx20:10
jelknerpaul is presenting on zope 320:10
jelknerand it is also a great networking opportunity20:11
jelknerit was pycon, after all that brought cando and schooltool together20:11
dwelshWelsh does need to go soon....20:11
dwelshI just want to say20:11
jelknerth1a: i was thinking that since the big expense is flying them there20:11
dwelshCommunication between the SchoolTool teams will be very important20:12
jelknerit would be best if they could stay for all 4 days of the sprint20:12
dwelshAnd I hope Elkner's wiki will help (or some other technology)20:12
jelkneri'm waiting for pcardune's response to my email20:12
jelkneri was hoping he would be here now20:12
jelknertom suggested paul can orient me to the wiki20:12
jelkneri'll call him tonight and follow up tomorrow20:13
* jinty just wants to quickly annonce while th1a is arround that he will be on holiday from wednesday-sunday (though for those in the states, that is practically tuesday)20:13
dwelshLast, I think it would be good for SchoolTool put out a new version (07) at the end of this SchoolYear20:13
dwelshI was very impressed by Mark Shuttleworth's Ubuntu presentation20:13
dwelshand how the commitment to releases has moved them along20:13
dwelsha SchoolTool release will focus us all on what will be in that release20:13
dwelshand releasing once a year seems smart to me20:14
jelkneri concur!20:14
dwelsh...but then again, what do I really know:)20:14
jelknercando will certainly need a release next year20:14
th1aWell, it would be nice, but we'll have to see what we've got.20:14
th1aWe can't put something out that we can't support.20:14
dwelshLet's commit to release, then see what we can get into it20:14
jelknerso we basically have to do a new schooltool one also20:15
dwelshRemember, no one cleans a group house until company's coming!20:15
jelkneri agree with dave20:15
th1aAnd by support I mean have at least one person doing bugfixes and feature requests full time.20:15
jelknereven if it only means schooltool better supports the cando release20:15
jelkneri'm not suggesting you promise what you can't deliver20:15
jelknerbut we are working toward better integration20:15
dwelshwhatever it means, I think we should force ourselves to evaluate what we have, and clean it up enough to release it20:16
jelknerso we want next years cando to build on the current schooltool20:16
th1aPerhaps we can do some kind of release that is specific to CanDo.20:16
jelknerthat would work20:16
jelknerbut things like the ui improvement would benefit everyone20:16
ignashmm, on one hand commitment to release is good, on the other hand partner schools do not really care about releases ...20:16
jelknerso anyone next year interested in looking at schooltool should see that release20:16
jelknerignas: not as long as they just go to you for support20:17
th1aThe primary focus has to be on deploying in the partner schools.20:17
dwelshschools want a version to use for that academic year, though20:17
jelknerbut we need to build the community20:17
ignas i mean spending time to get something out of the door that is not directly useful to any particular school might just add work without actually usable (as in used by someone) results ...20:17
jelknerwe don't want to wait two years before encouraging anyone else to look at it20:17
Lumiereignas: they care about a release... the release is something that goes into their school20:18
Lumiereit just happens that it's schooltool-<schoolname> getting released20:18
jelknerignas: cando *will* be useful out of the box for many people20:18
Lumiereinstead of schooltool-<2007>20:18
th1aWell, I think we should think about a CanDo release, and what should be in the underlying SchoolTool part of that.20:18
jelknerwe are committed to making it so20:18
th1aYou guys are just way ahead of us in some ways.20:18
ignasi am really sorry, but I want to build a usable application, not a community at the moment :/20:19
jelknerignas: and that is what you are focusing on20:19
ignasi just might not have the time to go through commiting, packaging, maintaining something not used by lyceum or schools in belgium20:19
th1aSo perhaps we'll want to release SchoolTool/CanDo with our sketchier components removed (attendance...).20:19
jelknernow you are talking!20:19
th1aBut it'll pretty much carry the CanDo brand.20:20
Lumierecould we do a release of SchoolTool with the sketchier components removed generally20:20
th1aWe could call it SchoolBell!20:20
jelkneri don't think i understand the difference enough to have an opionion on what we call it20:20
ignasjust that i would have to stabilize all the components, as components will get even more sketchier than they are at the moment, until they'll get stabilized ...20:21
Lumiereschool tool should be the small core20:21
th1aBut really, we should think of a CanDo release in 2007 with a solid SchoolTool base.20:21
Lumierethen install packages for what you need20:21
jelknerwe plan to work on resource scheduling also20:21
Lumiereso schooltool-attendence20:21
th1aNot attendance.20:21
LumiereI am saying once it works20:21
ignasLumiere: factoring it out - takes time, a lot of it ...20:21
jelkneri like that20:21
Lumiereignas: yes, but it's better in the long run20:22
th1aWell, in the long run we're all dead.20:22
ignasLumiere: but useless in the short run ...20:22
ignassorry, 2 programmers, 3 schools, limited time20:22
th1aWell, regardless, there will be a CanDo release based on some SchoolTool branch.20:22
Lumierewhich is where we are this yea20:22
jelknerignas: i thought the whole point of this was to broaden this out and work together more20:23
th1aAnd we need to make that as firm as possible.20:23
jelknerwhy do you say 2 programmers20:23
ignasand i will do my best not to make things more difficult to CanDo while refactoring everything ...20:23
jelknerwhat about pcardune, wdicers, aelkner?20:23
jelknerif you limit yourself to 2, you may never get this done20:23
jelknerwe need to build a community20:23
ignasjelkner: they are not actively commiting to schooltool at the moment, and they have independent agendas of their own ...20:23
jelkneror die sooner rather than later20:23
jelknerindependent of what?20:24
jelknerwhat is the SchoolTool agenda?20:24
* jfroche would enjoy having more people working on schooltool components20:24
Lumierepaul has school20:24
th1aOK... I'm not sure what the conflict is here.20:24
jelknerhow do i know if something is part of it or not?20:24
ignasjelkner: independent from things that lyceum needs, that schools in belgium need20:25
jelknerlyceum is vilnious?20:25
jelknerthen belgium and lyceum are independent too, yes?20:25
ignasjelkner: yes, but both being in Europe20:26
th1aEssentially, the CanDo developers need to be focused on what is going to get the CanDo stack where they want it.20:26
ignasthey have a lot incommon (apparently, i didn't know that until i met with jfroche)20:26
th1aIncluding the SchoolTool parts they use.20:26
jelknerwhich parts are those?20:26
th1aThat's up to you, jelkner.20:27
jelkneri'm asking which parts they use?20:27
th1athey = CanDo developers.20:27
ignasjelkner: timetable model, some parts of demographics, way sections work ...20:27
th1aI was continuing my thought, not ignas's.20:27
jelknerthanks, ignas, that is what i was asking20:27
jelknerwe plan to work on resource management20:28
jelknerthat is timetable, yes?20:28
th1aIn part.20:28
Lumieretimetable might be the basis for a resource management system20:28
th1aInsofar as a resource can be scheduled for a section.20:28
jelknerit would be very helpful to me to get a better understanding of what is being done in Europe20:28
jelkneri will be looking for ways we can work together20:29
ignasjelkner: most probably - it won't touch the timetable when i'm done timetables will have only a very light connection with resources20:29
jelknerthat will be much easier if i understand what is being done20:29
jelknercan we use the wiki for that?20:30
ignasat the moment we are working on the Person (custom person data for every school)20:30
ignastimetables - convergint timetable calendars and schooltool calendars into 1 calendar20:30
ignasmulti language support - a widget that allows you to select a language from a list while the application is running20:31
ignasand stores the info in a cookie20:31
jelknerhow does your school use SchoolTool in their day to day operation?20:32
ignasschool specific evolution scripts20:32
ignasthey are not using it yet, because they want timetable refactoring done first20:32
jelknerhow do they want to use it?20:32
ignasas at the moment timetable events can't have any data added to them20:32
ignaslike description20:32
ignasor resources20:33
ignasso they are kind of display only20:33
jelknerignas: what is the first thing they are going to use it for?20:34
ignasthe language selection is very important as only like 50% of the translation is in there at the moment20:34
ignasjelkner: timetabling, so teachers could attach data to timetable events20:34
ignasso pupils could read it20:34
jelknerwhat is a timetable event?20:34
jelkneri mean from a user's point of view20:35
ignasan event that at the moment is dynamically generated from section timetables20:35
jelknercan you give me an example?20:35
ignasMonday -> 12:00 -> Maths for (1a, 1b)20:36
ignasa lesson20:36
ignasvisible in calendars of teachers and students20:36
jelknerso teachers will be using it to post assignments20:36
jelknerand students will be reading those assignments?20:36
ignasyes, something like that20:37
Lumierethey could also post the class location for that day20:37
ignasmore like change it20:37
Lumiere(same thing, different words)20:38
jelknerisn't there overlap between that and the kind of resource scheduling we are talking about doing?20:38
ignasthey are already set when you add a timetable to a section20:38
Lumierethere is20:38
Lumiereexcept this is section related20:38
Lumiererather then resource related20:38
LumiereI can only assume that timetables aren't tracking the resources20:38
ignastracking ?20:38
jelknerok, but there is code reuse opportunty here, yes?20:38
ignaswhat are your exact usecases ?20:39
Lumiereignas: keeping track of where/what resources are in use20:39
ignasthat is already done20:39
jelknerteachers want to sign up for a computer lab20:39
ignasif event A books resource B20:39
jelknerwhen is it available20:39
ignasthen event A is visible in resources B calendar20:39
ignasand when you click "Book resources" for event A20:39
Lumiereis there a way to create a set of resources?20:39
Lumiereand make that (somewhat) static?20:40
ignasyou see the status of all the resources (booked or free)20:40
Lumiereor are resources just typed in20:40
ignasset of resources?20:40
ignasfor example?20:40
Lumierea school has 3 computer labs, 3 mobile presentation carts, 3 laptop carts20:40
ignasso 9 different resources20:40
Lumierethat's the set of resouces that can be booked at that school20:41
jelknerdave came up with the idea to work on this part of the project20:41
Lumieredwelsh has stepped out to another meeting at this time20:41
ignaswell you can already do that with ST20:41
ignasi mean you just add 9 resources20:41
ignasand you can book them on normal ST calendar events20:41
jelknercurrently, our technology coordinators are using a filemaker server to do this20:41
jelknerwe want to replace that with schooltool20:42
ignasand i am working so you could book them on separate timetable events (lessons)20:42
ignasany other usecases ?20:42
ignasi mean - what can the filemaker do?20:42
Lumierealmost nothing20:42
Lumiere(I wrote the filemaker solution)20:42
jelknerok, i need to run to get ready for my incoming class20:43
Lumiereit's resource centric20:43
jelknerthis has been a helpful start20:43
Lumiereso, a teacher logs in, sees a list of resources and clicks on one20:43
jelknerthanks all!20:43
Lumiereit takes them to a view where they can scroll around days20:43
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Lumierethen write their name in for certain periods on one day20:43
ignasLumiere: in schooltool you go to Resource list, click on one, and look at it's calendar20:43
Lumiereso, what I am going to tell dwelsh20:43
Lumiereis that Resource Scheduling is done20:44
Lumierebut that it may be useful to have the people who were to focus on it look it over and see if it matches the set of use cases that he's generated20:44
ignas:) well, he might want to talk to me directly maybe we can find some places that might be improved to better suit his requirements20:44
Lumierethe only issue I see so far with this20:44
Lumiereis that I would need to create courses/sections for every class20:45
Lumiereso that they could schedule resources20:45
Lumiere(which is a lot of data management for me)20:45
ignaswell, in normal cases - it is done automatically, well most schools have the info in some electronic format most of the time ...20:45
Lumierebut we need to SIF it over20:46
ignasteacher can book the resource himself too20:46
ignasif you nead that20:46
Lumiereso if I have all the teachers in20:46
ignasthen you'd only need a list of teachers20:46
Lumierethey could just book the resource to themselves20:46
Lumierethat's perfect20:46
Lumierethat's exactly how we're doing it now20:46
Lumiere(only difference is I would have to make per-teacher accounts instead of a single teacher account)20:46
Lumiereit'd also remove the honor system that's in place20:47
Lumiereright now a teacher could overwrite another teacher's entry20:47
ignaswell, you can always make teachers write their name in the event title20:47
ignasand stay with the honour system20:47
ignasif you like20:47
ignasthe system could get improved in a couple of points, so if you have spare programmer power i could direct to places that need some work to be done ;)20:48
ignasto be faster, more convenient ;)20:48
Lumierewe were planning to bring programmers onboard to do this stuff20:48
ignasbut first you should look at what's already in there20:51
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ignasok, g2g home now :)20:57
ignasby everybody20:57
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pcardunedwelsh, did you call earlier?21:02
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th1a...and we're back.21:04
Lumierepcardune: he did21:08
Lumierefor the 1pm meeting today21:08
Lumierethat's just ended21:08
LumiereI suggest to both pcardune and th1a that you check the logs on the schooltool site21:08
pcarduneI was in another meeting21:08
Lumierecause there's some stuff on resource scheduling that is exceedingly important for next years dev work on the elkner side21:09
th1aCan you see how fast my bits are flowing?21:23
LumiereI can feel it from here ;)21:26
pcardunesounds expensive... fiber that is21:27
Lumieresame as DSL here21:27
Lumiere$40 a month21:27
pcarduneI agree, that welsh should try out existing resource management and figure out what exactly (if anything) needs to be changed.21:30
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