IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2006-10-30

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eukreigni'm new to schooltool and i'm trying to checkout the code to do development, i have an account, but when i try this, i get a permission denied and it never prompts me for a password: svn co svn+ssh:// cando15:27
ignasdo you have ssh keys properly set up ?15:28
eukreigndo i need ssh keys setup?15:28
eukreignhow do i do that?15:28
th1aso eukreign == lex?15:30
th1aAh, jelkner told me you were working on CanDo now.15:32
ignasoh, it's a different repository from source.schooltool.org15:32
th1aHi ignas, jfroche, jinty15:32
eukreignth1a == ???15:33
th1aAh, sorry.  th1a = Tom Hoffman15:33
eukreignah, ok15:33
eukreignso, how do i checkout the cando code as a developer, previously i checked it out using "svn co cando" but that doesn't let me commit15:34
th1aWell, regardless I think your ssh keys have to be set up.15:35
eukreignhow do i do that? is there a guide for new cando developers somewhere on how to get setup with everything?15:36
th1aDid daylight savings time end in Europe?15:36
jfrochehello th1a !15:36
jfrochewe did +115:36
jfrocheit is 14:36 here15:37
th1aeukreign: basically you need to send your ssh key to jinty, who hopefully will appear sometime in the next hour.15:37
ignas15:37 in here15:37
eukreigni don't have an ssh key15:37
th1aeukreign: You'll have to make one!15:38
ignasgoogle ssh keys howto ?15:38
ignasfirst hit15:38
th1aWe should have a round of introductions for eukreign.15:38
th1aSince he's going to be working regularly on CanDo.15:39
th1aAs I said, I'm Tom Hoffman.  I'm the project manager, a former English teacher.  I'm working on using SchoolTool at my former school here in Providence, RI.15:39
th1aCan the rest of you introduce yourselves?15:40
ignasI am Ignas Mikalajūnas, a programmer working with Vilnius Lyceum (Lithuania) on schooltool15:40
ignaswith resources dedicated to schooltool down to me and jfroche, i am the only one who more or less knows the codebase15:42
ignasresources as in programmers15:42
eukreignI'm Lex Berezhny, former student of Yorktown High School, I have a Python dayjob and have been doing python for a bit more than 6 years now.15:42
th1aeukreign: Do you mostly do Zope 2 at work?15:42
th1aOK, so you and jfroche are both trying to make that transition.15:43
jfrocheI am Jean-François Roche, should work soon with schooltool in two Belgium schools15:43
eukreignbut even that would be a stretch, i wrote my own custom framework within Zope 2, so i don't interact too much with Zope 2 internals anymore15:43
th1aeukreign: What are you working on first in CanDo?15:44
eukreignwell, hopefuly a task that will not be too difficult but will help me get acquainted with the code15:45
th1aYou don't have anything specific yet?15:46
eukreignwell, right now i'm just trying to get the code checked out, so that's the specific thing i'm working on15:46
th1aOK ;-)15:47
th1aLet's move on to progress reports.  ignas?15:47
ignasnot much new things, principal was too busy so i had to postpone the meeting with him until Thrusday this week15:48
ignasi polished the schooltool for lyceum a bit, by hiding unnecessary functionality15:48
th1aYes.  When are we going to close out the UI contract?15:49
ignasand am working on sorting/filtering for all schooltool listing views15:49
ignasvidas told me that he should have temporary tabs done in a couple of days15:49
th1aWhat's the goal of the meeting with the principal?15:49
ignasreview the contract, maybe edit it a bit, and hopefully sign it as soon as possible15:50
ignasand introduce me, as i was only meeting with Bronius Skūpas :)15:50
th1ajfroche: What's up on your end?15:50
ignasoh, i reviewed/estimated some ways of refactoring the timetable part too15:51
jfrocheworking on the plone dev instance15:51
th1ajfroche: Is that live anywhere?15:51
jfrochenearly have homepage translatable15:51
jfrochenote that this instance isnt always up15:52
th1aThat's what makes it a dev instance ;-)15:53
th1aI hadn't noticed all the trackback spam until someone pointed it out over the weekend.15:53
th1aTrackback spam in the weblog.15:53
th1aSo I just ripped it out of the quills template on the live site.15:53
th1aDid the trick.15:54
jfrocheok which template did you changed ?15:54
th1ahm... let me see...15:55
th1aI think there is a setting somewhere that is the proper way to do it,15:55
th1abut I couldn't find any sort of control panel.15:55
jfrochechanged them on in portal_skins ?15:55
th1aI changed the Quills skin.15:55
th1aI changed weblogentry_view in the file system.15:56
jfrocheyou better use portal_skins when you do that15:57
jfrocheso that i can make these change part of the schoooltool skin product15:57
th1aOK.  What skin would I add it to?15:58
jfrocheyou go to
jfrocheclick on the template you want15:58
jfrocheclick on customize15:59
jfrocheyour template is now in custom15:59
jintyhi, sorry I'm late, managed to lock myself out of the house15:59
jfrochehello :)15:59
th1ahi jinty.15:59
th1aAs long as you keep our servers secure, I don't care what you do with your house.16:00
th1ajinty:  Can you introduce yourself to eukreign, who is doing some paid work on CanDo?16:00
jfrocheth1a: what should we do for user management on ?16:01
jintyeukreign: try use https...16:01
th1ajfroche: Not let random people create accounts.16:02
jfrochethat is already done16:02
jfrocheshould i put back PloneHelpCenter and PloneSoftwareCenter ?16:03
jintyeukreign: I'm Brian Sutherland, administrator for and generally try to take care of the build/distribution machinery16:03
th1ajfroche: We're phasing them out but there is still some old content there we probably don't want to bother migrating.16:05
th1ajfroche: So what else do we need to do on the back end?16:06
th1aWe should probably update Quills.  I think there is a new version.16:06
jfrochei ll update the zope and the plone16:06
jfrocheand i should begin to work on a schooltool instance for Denis school16:07
jfrocheon Denis server16:07
jfrochefor him to be able to add his own content16:07
jfrocheand pray to get the authorisation soon...16:08
th1aThere isn't anything else major to be done on the web server that I'm forgetting, then?  I'll just need to update the content.16:08
jintyspeaking about servers, when do you guys think is a good time for the system upgrade? next weekend?16:10
th1aSounds good to me.16:11
ignasor maybe 11-01 ? it's a holiday ...16:11
th1aNot a holiday here.16:11
jfrochemean moving ?16:11
jintythat's already done16:11
jintyI mean an upgrade of from hoary -> dapper16:12
jintyok, then I'll try for this weekend.16:12
th1aOK.  Sounds good.16:12
th1aMoving on then...16:13
th1ajinty:  So what's going on with this new release?16:13
jintywell, a few people started filing bugs against the old schoolbell16:14
jintyunexpectedly I had the time to make a beta16:14
th1aDid you push that into Debian?16:15
jintyNot very hard16:15
jintyI said: "If you want to fix this bug, upload those packages"16:16
jintyrather than asking a specific sponsor for an upload16:16
jintyin the end it has not been uploaded yet16:16
jintyI am a little unconfortable pushing a beta into debian/ubuntu16:17
th1aBut it isn't a SchoolBell release.16:17
jintyno, there is no schoolbell in sight, but the old schooltool depends on the old schoolbell16:17
th1ajinty: Yes, it is somewhat dubious, although if we could have jammed something into Edgy, perhaps it would have been worth doing.  Right after edgy, I'm not sure what the point is.16:18
th1ajinty: Yeah... so how are you dealing with that dependency?16:18
jintywell, the new beta doesn't have that dependency16:19
th1aNo SchoolBell dependency?16:19
jintyyeah, we kinda dropped the ball with Edgy.16:19
ignasjinty: for the future (when i'll have enough time or someone will nag me the whole weekend to do it) would schooltool tarball with mkschooltoolinstance and mkschoolbellinstance be something that is good ?16:20
jintynope, in the new packages based on the beta, schooltool does not depend on schoolbell.16:20
jintyignas: I actually only need a zcml configuration that works.16:20
jintyto make packages that is.16:21
ignaseven though schoolbell would still depend on various extra components on source code level16:21
ignaslike timetabling16:21
jintyI would imagine that the schoolbell package would depend on python-schooltool, so most of the schooltool packages will be around16:22
jintyI think my problem is more that schooltool is broken on the source code level. That at least is my feeling, and I think the schoolbell tests have been disabled.16:23
th1aI'm not worried about creating a schoolbell package.16:24
th1aSo I'm inclined to sort of abort this release.16:25
th1aParticularly as a "beta."16:25
ignasthe main concern with the beta is Data.fs compatibility ...16:26
jintyyes, that's my worry as well.16:26
th1aYes, it just introduces another level of support for no tangible gain.16:26
th1aIf we'd put something in Edgy, there would have been at least some upside in showing we're alive...16:27
ignaswe should care about being alive more than about showing that we're alive16:27
th1aignas: Indeed.16:28
th1aAnyhow, jinty, what do you want to do at this point?16:28
jintyth1a: I would welcome any actual decision on the release, yay or nay. Could we announce this more widely than IRC so that I have something to point at when people ask me what's up?16:29
th1aI was going to follow up your email to the list.16:29
th1aIt wasn't mentioned on the website, so I'm not sure a comment is necessary there.16:30
eukreignokay, i created a passwordless ssh key16:30
eukreignwhere do i send my public key?16:31
jintyeukreign: you don't need an ssh key to access the cando repository, using https should be enough. try svn co
ignasjinty: can you commit into an https repository ?16:33
jintyth1a: at least the announce or schooltool list would be nice.16:33
jintyignas: yep, if your apache is setup right.16:33
ignascool :)16:33
th1ajinty:  Of course.16:34
eukreignbut it doesn't ask me for a username or password, how does it know what to commit as?16:34
jintyeukreign: have you tried a commit?16:34
th1aOK, last item:16:34
th1aDo we want to move the meeting time back an hour since daylight savings time ended?16:34
eukreignwhat's a good file to try editing and commiting?16:34
th1aI do.16:35
eukreignwasn't that yesterday?16:35
jfrocheas you prefer th1a same 4 me16:35
* jinty doesn't care about meeting time16:35
th1ajinty is always awake.16:35
th1ajfroche: Your invoice looks fine to me, btw.16:36
jintyeukreign: find a spelling mistake or snail food;)16:36
jfrochegreat, first one in my life :)16:36
eukreigni added a blank line at the end of a README.txt16:36
eukreignokay, i was able to commit16:37
eukreignso, will i have to enter a password everytime i commit?16:37
th1aActually, one more thing:  can we move the main schooltool svn soon?16:37
jintyI was planning to have a look at that after the upgrade16:38
eukreignit's going to be 90F in my house soon, so if i pass out, you know what happened16:39
th1aWe'll know what to put down as the cause of death?16:39
eukreignheat stroke16:39
th1aIs it that hot in Virginia?16:39
eukreigni'm in New Hampshire16:40
ignasth1a: setting a date to get jfroche and ignas together f2f ?16:40
eukreignno, it's freezing outside16:40
jfrocheth1a: do you have contact with James Henstridge ?16:40
eukreignbut i'm having insulation put in, they were supposed to do it during the summer but ended up procrastinating on it for months and now it's freezing outside but it's blown in insulation and needs warm weather, so they had this brilliant idea of heating up the house as high as the thermostat would go hopefuly creating a warmer micro climate around the house :-D16:41
th1ajfroche: Not really.  Last week was probably a particularly busy one at Canonical, since they were doing a release.16:41
eukreignyeah... i live in a crazy town :-D16:41
th1aeukreign: That sounds like a very dubious plan.16:41
th1aignas: Yes, a date!16:42
jfrochenovember ?16:42
ignasfor how long ?16:42
jfrochebut i still dont have authorisation to the school and dont know when i ll have it16:42
jfrochebut we can work anyway16:43
th1aI'd say 3 days.16:44
th1aThat sound right?16:44
jfrochesame for me16:44
ignasjfroche: you prefer weekend or not ? :)16:44
jfrochetell me what you prefer16:45
jfrocheits the same for me16:45
ignas25,26,27 maybe16:45
jfrochegood for me yes16:46
jfrocheyou would come by plane ?16:46
ignasdepends on th1a :)16:47
th1aIt would be a pretty damn long train ride, wouldn't it?16:47
ignasdo trains go from Lithuania to Belgium?16:48
th1aAnyhow, yes, you can fly.16:48
ignasthe question is - am i flying on 24th and flying back on 28th morning or flying on 25th and flying back on 27th16:48
th1aJust invoice us for the travel expenses w/copies of receipts.16:48
th1aI think between the two options.16:49
th1aFly in the evening of the 24th and leave the evening of the 27th.  Something like that.16:49
jfrochegood for me16:50
th1aTwo full days with no travel.16:50
ignassounds like a plan16:51
ignaswhat about accommodation ?16:51
jfrocheignas: tell me when you have the dates16:51
jfrochei have all you need here at home16:51
jfrochebut if you prefer hotel ...16:51
ignasnot that i have any preferences, depends on how much trouble would it be for you16:53
th1aIt is, of course, preferable to save money...16:53
jfrochefor me no trouble at all here, i still live by my parents (should move in January)16:54
jfrocheand there a big bed free here for visitors16:54
jfrocheand when there is food for 4 there is food for 516:55
ignasok :)16:55
th1aI'm going to take a shower.  Have a good week folks!16:57
ignasnow that i look at the November calendar (oops) i was thinking about 22, 23, 24 (21st evening to 24th evening)17:00
jfroche22 i have the meeting here17:01
jfrochecan't miss it17:01
ignasi see17:01
jfrochebut if you are interested17:01
jfrocheit ll be in english17:01
ignas:) well, i think that we'll have only 2 days so time is very valuable ...17:02
jfrocheyes :)17:02
ignashmm, then i guess 22 evening to 25 evening maybe ?17:02
jfroche23 morning to 26 ?17:03
jfrochecause on the 22 it ends quite late17:03
jfrocheand i am speaker17:03
jfrochewould like to speak with others after17:03
ignasoh, i see17:04
ignashmm, then i guess we'll stick with the evening of the 24th and leave the evening of the 27th plan17:05
jfrocheif its ok for you yes17:05
ignasi kind of wanted to be back on weekend to get some rest before going to work17:06
eukreigni have an ambulance call, dono when i'll be back17:06
jfrocheignas:  the week after ?17:07
ignas(Nov 28th evening to Dec 1st evening)17:08
ignasseems good17:10
jfrochestill weekend there17:10
jfrocheits ok for me17:10
ignasoh, btw, what airport is closest to you?17:11
jfrocheyou can try Charleroi (via Ryanair)17:12
jfrochebut dont think there is link to you17:12
ignasi doubt it17:12
jamesmare any of the admins around ?17:46
ignasadmins of what?17:51
ignasthe channel, the website, svn repository?17:51
eukreignso, when is the meeting happening?18:00
ignaswhich meeting?18:06
eukreigni dono, i was told that there was going to be a meeting on #chooltool monday at 9:30am18:08
mgedmin(13:30 UTC was 2 and a half hours ago)18:09
*** mgedmin changes topic to "SchoolTool development | IRC logs at | Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET)| CanDo dev meetings Tue, 4pm EST"18:09
mgedminthere are irc logs18:09
eukreignwell, then i guess i was present in the meeting18:13
eukreignthere was no announcement of the start of the meeting and then end of the meeting so i wasn't sure18:14
mgedminyeah, these meetings tend to be a bit informal18:18
eukreigni see18:19
ignasyes, the standard opener most of the time is "th1a: shuffles some papers"18:21
mgedminand then there's the throwing of loose gravel around18:21
ignasand meetings end with banging of the gavel, gravel or something similar ;)18:21
mgedminso, did you decide to shift the meeting to 14:30 UTC or not?18:24
eukreigni wish there was an IRC plugin that automatically converted times to your local timezine18:25
ignaswrite one18:26
ignasxchat supports python plugins18:26
eukreignit doesn't itch that bad18:26
eukreignmore of a wish than an itch ;-)18:27
mgedminI'm sure google can do that18:27
mgedmin... um ... no it can't18:27
* mgedmin usually uses 'TZ=somestrangetimezone date --date="16:30 UTC"' in a shell window18:28
th1aeukreign: Usually there is more of an ending, but ignas & jfroche kept going.18:42
eukreigndamn them! :-D18:44
eukreignhow do i login to CanDo?18:48
eukreigner, how do i create a username/password to be able to login18:48
eukreigni have schooltool running but when i click on Global Compentency i get a login screen18:48
eukreignyou are the best! :-D18:49
eukreignokay, and how do i get to the gradebook screen for CanDo?18:52
th1aYou probably need to create some courses and sections, etc.18:57
eukreignis there a tutorial or some kind of documentation that walks you through school tool and shows you how to use it?19:11
ignasnot really19:12
eukreignso, how do the teachers that use this learn to use it?19:13
ignasthere aren't  that many teachers using it at the moment i think19:13
eukreigni see19:14
ignasyou can find some info in schooltool.org19:15
ignasand some documentation in txt files19:15
eukreigni'm just looking for a very general overview of how everything fits together19:16
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ignaswell, what do you know about Zope3 ?19:21
eukreigni worked with it a little back before there were any releases19:22
ignas general overview - from users perspective or programmers perspective ?19:23
eukreignfrom users perspective and then from programmers perspective :-D19:23
ignaswell, everything is organized into top level containers (Persons, Resources, Sections, Courses, Terms, Levels etc.)19:25
eukreignwhat's a section?19:25
ignassection is a set of people + day and time of the meeting + set of instructors19:26
ignasLike history for 6th grade friday 1am by John Smith19:27
ignaswhen you log in you are looking at your calendar19:28
ignasand can see breadcrumbs App -> person container -> you -> calendar19:28
eukreignand who am i?19:28
ignasmanager probably :)19:28
eukreignbut when i first opened up the page i wasn't logged in19:28
ignasnot just users have calendars though,19:28
eukreignit still displayed a calendar19:28
ignasthere is an application calendar19:29
ignascalendar for the whole school19:29
eukreignokay, so what are the different types of calendars and what info do they have on them?19:29
ignasthere are resource, section, group calendars too19:29
ignasall calendars are of the same type19:29
ignasthe only difference is who can edit them ...19:29
ignasthen there are timetables19:29
ignasok, timetable calendars19:30
ignastimetable calendars are generated automatically for every person and group19:30
ignasdepending on sections they belong to19:30
ignasand depending on section timetables19:30
ignasso actually only sections have timetables, timetables for users are expressed through their membership in groups or sections ...19:31
ignasas for the gradebook, especially cando gradebook, I really can only point you to a readme that is in src/schooltool/gradebook (or shouls be there)19:32
eukreignis cando a plugin for schooltool or a part of it?19:32
ignasa kind of a plug in19:32
ignasi don't really know as I haven't even seen cando ;)19:33
eukreignwhat are resources?19:33
ignasresources are objects that can be booked by simple calendar events19:34
ignasor sections19:34
ignasyou can say that resource belongs to some section and all events of that section will appear on the calendar for that resource19:34
ignasresources are for example - classrooms, various inventory etc.19:35
eukreigni see19:35
eukreignwhat are Levels?19:35
ignasi guess readme in src/schooltool/levels can explain it better than i can19:36
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