IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2006-08-29

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eldafaris there a file I can conviniently edit to change the default skin for schooltool?15:18
eldafaror is changing the default skin more complicated? What do I need to do?15:18
ignaschanging to what ?15:43
eldafarI think I figured it out15:43
eldafarI'll just make my own overrides file15:43
eldafarsomething like cando-skin-overrides.zcml15:44
eldafarand do the "<defaultSkin ...." thing there, it should work, right?15:44
ignasyes i think so15:45
eldafarunknown directive <defaultSkin >_>16:00
eldafarwhat namespaces do I need to include for that one?16:00
ignaslook what is the default namespace in the file that sets the default skin16:04
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eldafarignas: and where is the default skin set?16:24
ignasnamespace is browser16:25
* th1a shuffles some papers around.16:30
th1aGood morning everyone.16:31
th1ahi ignas, jinty.16:32
eldafarGood morning16:32
th1ahi eldafar.16:32
th1aHas school started for you, eldafar?16:33
eldafarNot yet, September 5th is the day16:33
th1aignas:  Hi.  So you were on vacation last week?16:36
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ignastwas good16:36
th1aDo anything interesting?16:36
ignaslot's of relaxing and enjoying of very good weather16:36
th1aignas: Sounds good.16:36
th1aignas:  Have you started looking for a school to work with?16:38
ignasnot yet16:38
th1aDo you have an idea of how you'll approach that?16:39
ignasi was waiting for things to become better defined16:39
ignasas working full time at some school is a bit of an extreme16:40
ignasand i heard rumours that it is not fully decided upon yet16:40
th1aYes.  How about 3 days a week?16:40
th1aI think that's probably about right.16:40
ignasAiste told me something about one more phonecall between you Mark and Steve16:41
ignasat least i think she did ...16:41
ignasbeing planned that is16:41
th1aOh, well, perhaps Aiste and I had a different sequence of events in mind.16:41
th1aI think we need a lead on a school before I make a firm proposal to Mark.16:42
th1aThis is kind of a package deal.16:42
th1aThat is, the school is part of the package.16:43
ignasthe problem is that the picture that Aiste told me that she heard from Steve and the one that you talked about is a bit different so i am kind of weary of miscomunication :/16:44
* ignas is overwhelmed with rumours :/16:44
ignasthe real talking is happening at least 2 levels away from me16:44
th1aHm... well, what did you hear?16:44
ignasthat getting a programmer working full time on the project as a chief designer is the important bit16:45
ignasand the full time school is not as important16:45
th1aThat isn't the way I think Mark feels about it.16:46
th1aThat is, I proposed to Mark in an email that we pay someone full time,16:47
ignasthe problem is that I don't have a slightest idea about everything :/ so i am doing the UI stuff and gathering bits of information ...16:47
th1aand it was his idea to site the developer at a school, which I agree is a good idea.16:48
ignasi see16:48
th1aBut to go back to Mark with a proposal to pay you full time to continue without a local school would not be in the spirit of what we discussed.16:48
th1aSorry if I've left you in the dark... I wanted to let POV digest this internally first, and then you went on vacation.16:49
ignas:/ Steve is busy at the moment16:50
ignasand i'd kind of would like to hear his part of the story ...16:50
th1aOK, but there isn't really ambiguity in my mind about what we discussed.16:51
th1aWe need a real customer in the XP sense.16:52
ignasthat would be nice16:53
th1aSo we need to find one in Vilnius, or I need to find another developer elsewhere.16:53
* jinty is sorry he's late16:54
jintyHi all16:54
th1ahi jinty.16:54
th1aignas:  Have you talked about finding a school locally?16:56
* jinty (commenting on the log) thinks a "design dictator" would be a good idea16:56
ignaswe did16:56
ignasthough not with schools themselves16:57
th1aOK.  So we need to figure out what you need to know to go forward with this.16:58
th1aBecause I'm giving you guys first crack, and not actively working on other options at this point.16:59
ignasi see, well what i need now is to talk to Aiste a bit17:00
ignasand she will be in the office only in 2 hours17:00
th1aOK.  We just need to start moving this forward.17:00
ignaswhich get's me like 5 minutes to talk to her as I am having some personal SNAFU17:00
ignassome UI mockups for the navigation widget17:01
ignasleaving the "refocus the project" part aside17:01
ignaswhat is the short term plan for this release ?17:01
jintyIs all development on hold until the new arangemenet is sorted out?17:01
ignasi started to implement some UI modifications17:01
th1aWell, I'd say *releasing* is on hold.17:02
ignasand it made the proposal even draftier17:02
ignasbecause i did come up with a system that allows us to keep the RESTiveness of the system with the new style navigation17:03
th1aThat sounds desirable.17:03
ignasthe data stored in URL looks nice enough17:03
ignasand works well enough to make me doubt17:03
ignaswhether we need the Session abstraction17:04
ignasas well the imortant part is "make calendar and attendance work with the new style navigation"17:04
ignasat least for our users17:04
ignasi am going to commit some stuff as soon as i'll add a couple of missing unit tests17:06
ignasthe plan is - make calendar use the new style navigation, and only then do attendance17:07
th1aThat's fine.17:07
ignasthe stitching of both ways worked nice enough, calendar views were not displaying the navigation menu anyway17:08
th1aSo we need to choose from vidas' mockups?17:08
ignasyes, he's working on the widget one a  bit at the moment ;) (i requested some last minute changes, sorry)17:08
th1aI thought it was broken ;-)17:09
th1aOK.  I'll write a post about that.17:09
th1aLet's move on to jinty-land.17:09
th1aAnd let me expand on my previous comment about releases.17:09
th1aWe need to have some kind of "edgy-preview" release.17:10
th1aWhich unfortunately might be kind of arbitrary.  However far along we are when their deadline hits.17:10
jintyfyi, I tested an upgrade from 0.11 -> 2006 and it worked (with a null database)17:10
th1ajinty:  That's something.17:11
jintythe problem I have with this is maintaining database compatibility.17:11
jintybecause we will have to ensure that for every release we distribute widely17:11
jintyAlso, there is the issue of zope3's release schedule.17:13
jintyand schoolbell...17:13
th1aOh, whether Zope3.3 will be done by then?17:14
jintyyes, or at least at the point where they maintain db compatibility17:14
jintyalso, when 3.3 really releases, Ubuntu and debian people will start becoming antsy for a schooltool that works with it.17:15
th1aOK, well, this is not an "at all costs" issue, but clearly, a reasonably current version in edgy is desirable.17:16
* jinty searches for edgy's planned release date17:17
th1aThat would be a good thing to keep in mind.17:17
jintyhmm seems to be october17:18
jintyend of october17:19
th1aKeep this in mind as things unfold.17:21
th1aWould it be possible to release a current SchoolTool and an old SchoolBell?17:21
th1aHrm.  Because they share libschooltool or something like that?17:22
jintyunless the old schoolbell was updated to work with Zope 3.317:22
th1aIs that the primary problem?17:22
jintyrather because they share zope317:22
jintyyeah, basically.17:22
th1aWell, then there probably won't be a new SchoolBell.17:23
jintyIf we don't release schoolbell 2006, the net result is that Ubuntu and debian will probably have to kick the old schoolbell.17:23
jintykick as in not release it.17:23
th1aWell, not much to be done about that at this point.17:24
th1aUnless someone decides to start loving SchoolBell.17:25
th1aOK, I have a question.17:25
jintyto be able to build a schoolbell package, it isn't necessary to build a schoolbell tarball, merely to have some kind of zcml configuration for it.17:25
th1aI want to make HTTP requests from SchoolTool to pull data from other servers.17:26
th1aHow should I do that, generally speaking.17:26
ignasth1a: the requests would be based on some time or button ?17:27
* jinty would do it through the REST interface if possible17:27
jintyusing a third program run by cron17:27
th1aSome would be based on time, although just a periodic poll, not a strict schedule.17:27
th1aOthers would be triggered by events.17:27
ignasi think the most sane way is creating a view that performs an operation17:28
ignasand adding a crontab entry that wgets the URL17:28
ignasand using urllib / urllib2 to retrieve the data17:29
tiredbonesSorry for the interruption. Is there a piece of software that I could run agianst schooltool that would build a directory tree of schooltool?17:30
vidaspwhy not testbrowser.Browser('')17:30
th1aYou mean a tree of the object database?17:30
ignastiredbones: and why do you need that ?17:31
tiredbonesI'm trying to get a picture of how all the modules tie together.17:31
ignastiredbones: oh, ask mgedmin17:31
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th1aIs mgedmin around?17:32
ignasa sec i'll look for it in the mailing list17:32
ignasit was in there somewhere17:32
tiredbonesmgedmin, what do you have?17:32
th1aSo I shouldn't have SchoolTool do the requests itself (in a separate thread or something)?17:33
ignasth1a: that is possible but more difficult to implement17:33
th1aHm... but sometimes the requests have to be triggered by an event in SchoolTool.17:34
mgedmintiredbones: just a sec ...17:34
ignasth1a: well you refactor the "functionality bit"17:35
ignasand call it in the "view" as well as in the event17:35
th1aYou lost me there, ignas.17:35
ignaswell you will write some code that connect to server "A" and performs something ?17:36
ignasthen add a view to schooltool that runs the code, yes ?17:36
ignasand add some events that run the same code ...17:37
mgedmintiredbones: I have some autogenerated figures depicting the dependency graph of schooltool modules17:37
mgedmin-dag variants collapse circular dependencies into one graph node17:37
th1aThose might be more frightening than helpful...17:38
tiredbonesthanks, I'll take a look.17:38
mgedmin2 collapses all modules deeper than 2 levels (schooltool.x.y becomes schooltool.x)17:38
th1aOK, one last question...17:38
eldafarI'm having problems changing the default skin17:38
th1aEr... I'll hold off on the question.17:39
eldafarit is reading my cando-skin-overrides.zcml17:39
eldafarwhich has <defaultSkin name="CanDo" />17:39
* th1a strikes the bag of gravel.17:39
eldafarbut the default skin didn't change when I restarted the server17:39
* mgedmin brushes the dirt off his coat17:39
eldafarit works if I do ++skin++CanDo, so the skin exists :C17:40
ignasoh, we have a subscriber that applies our skin17:40
ignasschooltool/src/schooltool/app/browser/ - schoolToolTraverseSubscriber17:41
tiredbonesmgedmin, did you use graph-viz for these drawings?17:41
th1aLet me know when the tab widget is ready.17:42
ignasit is i think17:42
ignasnot beautified17:42
ignasbut the idea should be clear17:42
ignasa different coloured blob in the top right of the screen with the date (the means for changing it will be in there too ;) and the mode17:43
eldafaryeah ... we have a candoTraverserSubscriber17:44
mgedmintiredbones: yes17:45
* jinty announces to mgedmin, eldafar, alga, th1a that soon he will disallow password-over-ssh access to the schooltool server17:47
* eldafar backs up his private key for schooltool17:48
* mgedmin is not worried17:48
eldafarignas: what should I do with that subscriber?17:59
eldafarsince it says "apply", do I have to get rid of that statement?17:59
ignasdon't really know18:04
eldafarAnyone here know things about the SchoolTool skin?18:33
eldafarI've been trying to change the default skin, unsuccessfully18:34
eldafarI have a skin defined in cando.skin18:34
eldafarI made an overrides.zcml for it18:34
eldafarschooltool seems to eat it18:34
eldafarbut the <defaultSkin name="CanDo" /> didn't do much :V18:35
ignaswell you can try commenting out schooltool subscriber18:49
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