IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2006-06-05

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pcarduneth1a: I'd just like to let you know that we (cando folks) are up and running for the rest of the summer15:54
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pcardunejinty: are you around?16:22
jintypcardune: yep16:22
pcardunefor some reason, when I get an svn log for the cando repositoy, the first revision number is 252?  why not 1?16:23
jintyhmm interesting, let me see16:23
pcardunemaybe because we converted it over from a cvs repository?16:23
jintysvn log svn+ssh://
jintygives me all the way back to revision 116:25
jintywhich was the cvs import16:25
pcardunewait, what is is that the same as
jintyI put that in my hosts file before had a hostname16:27
* jinty takes it out16:27
pcardunethat's interesting16:28
jintys/hostname/domain name/16:28
pcardunebecause when i do that in my checked out cando, it only goes to revision 252.  Adding the server address gives me back to 1 aswell16:29
pcardunejinty: anyways, i tried this svn2bzr program, but it seems to stall at revision 241 for some reason16:30
pcarduneat this point i'm willing to explore more options with svn.  You said something about https? so people don't need ssh keys and the like?16:30
jintyyeah, you can set up apache to commit to your repository16:32
jintythen use the access control that comes with apache for fine grained access16:32
jintywhich is password based as far as I know16:32
jintyover https hopefully makes the password secure16:33
pcarduneI mean, i'd just like to have control over developer access myself.16:34
jintyah i see16:35
pcardunewe aren't organized enough to plan in advance and set people up with developer access before they need it16:35
pcarduneit's more like, they show up, jeff tells me they are going to be developers, and then expects me to get them programming that very minute16:36
jintybtw I think svn2bzr fails because you have a binary file in the repo tagged as a text file16:36
jintyok, If that is what you need, I'm sure we can organize something16:36
pcardunealso, most folks don't have their own laptops and can't easily carry around their rsh keys16:36
jintyI don't know what it is yet16:37
jintyperhaps we could let you edit the apache access control list for the repository16:38
jintyi.e. limited admin rights16:38
pcarduneyeah, that would be fine16:38
jintypcardune: do you have full ssh access right now?16:39
pcarduneno, i don't think i even have a shell account as far as I know16:39
pcarduneoh actually, i do16:40
jintyso you can ssh in and get a shell?16:40
jintyth1a: what do you think of the above?16:41
pcardunehe must not be around16:43
jintyyeah, i'm pretty sure he's ok with it anyway16:44
jintydo you have a timeline for when you need this by?<16:44
pcarduneyesterday :)16:46
pcardune(that's what jelkner always tells me)16:46
jintyThis file, I think, is not correctly marked as a binary file: schooltoolfork/src/schoolbell/app/browser/resources/toolbar-background.png16:46
jintypcardune: ok, be nice now;)16:47
pcardunei mean, I'm just going to say the sooner the better16:48
pcarduneIf you could do it today, that would be superb.  Otherwise, by thursday16:48
jintyby thursday for sure then16:48
pcarduneok great16:49
jintyi'll see about today16:49
pcardunethanks a lot16:49
pcardunejinty: who are the current developers on schooltool (to whom should I ask questions regarding recent changes?)17:06
jintyi presume ignas or faassen17:08
ignaspcardune: and what is the question ?17:08
pcarduneignas: I'm trying to add a person, and it is giving me a component lookup error17:09
pcarduneComponentLookupError: (<InterfaceClass schooltool.person.interfaces.IPersonFactory>, '')17:09
ignaspcardune: where ? functional test, unit test ?17:09
pcardunethrough the web17:09
pcarduneall the tests passed17:09
ignasouch, have you svnuped everything ?17:09
ignasand make update ?17:09
pcarduneoh... i didn't know you had to do that17:10
pcardunei'll try that17:10
mgedminusually you don't17:10
mgedmin'make update' updates some non-schooltool packages17:10
mgedminsuch as Zope 3 itself17:10
pcarduneoh yeah, in that case i might as well have done make update (i updated zope manually17:11
pcarduneyep, same error17:11
ignasi suspect faassen forgot to register some local utility17:11
pcarduneit seems like IPersonFactory isn't even used for anything except the lookup17:12
pcarduneyeah, that's what I was thinking17:12
ignasit is strange that functional tests pass17:12
pcardunethat bad far is that the tests still pass17:12
ignasmaybe you have some zcml files modified ?17:12
pcardunei meant to say "the bad part is that the tests still pass"17:12
pcardunenope, svn stat gives me nothing17:13
ignaslet me check it out17:14
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ignaspcardune: weird, i can see the utility getting registered ...17:28
pcarduneignas: can you reproduce the problem on your setup?17:29
ignasand i can see a bug17:29
ignassample data is not hooked up with the factory17:29
ignasthus will break table.html and search.html views on person container17:29
ignasand the indentation is inconsistent with the rest of   schooltool17:30
ignasand there is eeek trailing whitespace17:30
pcarduneare you in the process of fixing it?17:48
ignascan't find what's wrong ...17:48
ignasfunctional tests are passing :/17:49
ignasthe utility is getting registered twice17:49
ignastry renaming it17:51
ignasi think the utility is being set up on the creation of schooltool17:51
ignasand there is no evolution script that adds it to schooltool instances that have already been created17:51
mgedminIPersonFactory is a *local* utility?17:52
mgedminisn't that, like, against the law?17:52
toxygenwhat's IPersonFactory?17:56
ignasan interface used to lookup a local utility17:56
ignasthat should be used when creating persons17:57
pcarduneI'm not sure I totally understand the purpose of even having an IPersonFactory?  when would you ever want to use a factory other than the Person constructor?17:58
ignaspcardune: there are 2 classes for Person17:58
pcarduneoh really?  (that too is news to me)17:58
ignaspcardune: utility is for having the ability to use one or the other based on configuration17:58
ignaspcardune: i don't like the idea, but faassen got licence to kill from th1a17:59
ignasa.k.a. we want to release beta more than to keep clean and easily pluggable codebase17:59
pcardunewell, at this point, not being able to add a person through the web interface is a *HUGE* breakage18:00
ignaspcardune: remove your Data.fs18:01
ignasor rename it18:01
ignasfaassen just forgot to add an evolution script18:01
ignasthat's all18:01
th1apcardune:  I asked faassen to put together a demographics implementation quickly... it was never meant to be the permanant perfect solution.18:02
pcarduneoh, ok then18:02
th1aMaybe it is a mistake in the short term... regardless it isn't a fundamental change in our design philosophy.18:02
th1aAt most an experiment.18:03
pcardunethat's fine then18:03
th1aAnd I thought some fresh perspective on SchoolTool was a good thing, so giving a little more free rein rather than knocking down every idea.18:04
th1aAlthough perhaps I have assembled a team with too many chiefs.18:05
ignaswell we can't have a bottleneck (someone who approves and controls all the design decisions) forever and schooltool has to become a multi developer/team project that supports parallel development (when one developer can work on his part without interfering with others in any way)18:17
ignasbut sometimes, just sometimes having common design direction would be a very nice thing18:17
ignasand working with mgedmin for more than a year i have gotten into habit that it is better to miss the estimate n fold rather than sacrifice a bit of quality :/18:19
ignaswhich is not always feasible18:19
th1aWhether or not this is a matter of relative "quality" depends on your perspective.  I don't think faassen thinks there is a quality problem.18:39
th1aThere is a communication problem.18:39
th1aa) not enough discussion before faassen started writing code;18:40
th1ab) too much of a "BZZT! Wrong answer!" response when he did his first checkin.18:40
th1aMy instinct is to just let people work, because my experience with software development is so narrow.18:42
toxygenis schooltool already stable? :)18:43
ignastoxygen: it doesn't crash if that's what you mean18:43
ignastoxygen: but internals are subject to jange without much notice18:44
th1aThe calendaring is pretty stable.18:44
th1aEverything else is moving.18:44
toxygenignas: i mean production-ready18:44
ignastoxygen: production of what ? :D18:44
toxygenignas: production environment18:44
toxygenreal school18:44
toxygenreal people18:44
th1aFor calendaring, I think so.18:44
ignashow big, how important ?18:44
toxygenyou understand ;)18:45
toxygenignas: 500 people18:45
toxygenergh, 500 students i mean18:45
ignastoxygen: should work, the more you try the better it will get18:45
toxygenignas: it become important after people get used to it18:45
toxygenis deleting of timetables already possible?18:46
ignastoxygen: yes18:46
toxygennice :)18:46
ignasyou should wait for a release though18:46
toxygenlast time the faq said "create new one instead" iirc18:46
toxygenignas: when's that?18:46
ignasdon't know really18:46
toxygeni would like to start it on new school year (september)18:46
th1aCertainly before then.18:47
toxygenstill not sure what to expect from it18:47
th1aWe'll have another alpha real soon now...18:47
toxygenlooking forward18:47
th1aIn the fall we'll be actively testing demographics, attendance and gradebook.18:48
toxygensounds very good18:48
th1aCalendaring should be stable.18:48
ignasi wouldn't call it stable, usable and useful yes, but i think nothing is stable unless it had at least 1000 users using it ...18:50
ignasif our users will get enraged about one or other part of schooltool we'll redesign it without much consideration about keeping it stable18:51
th1aUsable is probably a better term.18:52
ignastoxygen: though the earlier you will start using it the more time you will give us to fix issues that are important to you18:54
ignasi am not sure what kind of turnaround we will have after september18:54
ignashow fast we will be able to fix bugs, optimize for performance etc.18:55
toxygenis there any school around using it?18:55
toxygenor we will be the first?18:55
ignasno there are no schools that are actually using it18:56
th1aI don't think it is literally true that no schools are using it at all.19:00
th1aI don't know that anyone is using it on a large scale though.19:00
th1aI doubt that.19:01
th1aThere will be four partner schools actively testing in the fall.19:01
toxygeni'll try my best to implement it on this school19:01
ignasth1a: what i mean by using is using with real data and real users not just testing with some sample data19:04
th1aNo, I mean, I think there are some schools who are using it for simple calendaring.19:11
th1aMaybe a dozen calendars.19:11
th1aThat kind of thing.19:11
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ignasby the way, where is faassen ?20:29
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jintypcardune: ayt?20:50
dwoopcardune is out right now.21:00
jintydwoo: thanks, let him know to check his mail when he's back...21:17
th1aDoes anyone have the dates for the sprint in VA handy?21:53
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pcardunejinty: awesome!  just got your email, will try to add myself now22:16
jintypcardune: let me know, I'm going to go make pizza in a moment22:17
* jinty goes to make some pizza...22:22
pcardunejinty: sweet, it works22:23
th1apcardune:  Do you know when the VA sprint is at the end of July?22:57
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pcarduneumm, let me look23:02
pcardunei have it down for july...23:02
pcardune28th through the 30th23:02
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