IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2006-04-24

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ignasth1a: ping me :)14:18
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povbot`/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 5952:14:51
povbot`/svn/commits: Fix broken ftest.14:51
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povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5953:15:44
povbot`/svn/commits: Put in real dependency.15:44
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5954:15:44
povbot`/svn/commits: Remove this in preparation for use of
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5955:15:45
povbot`/svn/commits: Use as the
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5956:16:09
povbot`/svn/commits: Some fixes.16:09
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5957:16:15
povbot`/svn/commits: * go back to previous and restore, as we cannot16:15
povbot`/svn/commits: dump zpkg support. Adjust makefile so that also gets called.16:15
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5958:16:46
povbot`/svn/commits: Ignore schooltool.egg-info that gets generated.16:46
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5959:16:47
povbot`/svn/commits: Manually include schooltool.resourcelibrary ZCML bits.16:47
th1aignas: ping.17:06
ignasth1a: when can you post your wishes for the next contract ?17:06
ignasso i could start working on the proposal17:06
th1aWell, I'd like to get some actual feedback from our partners.17:08
th1aAlthough there is always stuff to do if you guys want to work on SchoolTool.17:09
th1aSo let me know.17:09
ignaswell at the moment i am working on the timetable event booking17:09
ignasapparently such simple things as showing booked resources for timetable events in calendar views is a trivial task :/17:10
ignass/is/is not17:10
th1aI see.17:13
ignasthough having a clear understanding on what are current priorities, and what is the status of things i am working on (as in - how important it is, who will pay for that) would be nice, if not for me (i like hacking stuff) at least for PoV as a whole17:17
th1aFor attendance, it is definitely time to get some partner feedback.17:17
th1aSo I'm working on getting their demo servers up.17:17
th1aI have been working on that.17:18
ignasso we migh expect a period of hotfixing various stuff to make beta testers happier ?17:19
ignasand when is that going to happen ? :)17:23
th1aRealistically, that will be several weeks.17:24
th1aBecause we need to set up fairly complete systems before they can be tested with a school's real schedule, etc.17:25
th1aHowever, as I said, if you guys have time to work on SchoolTool, there are certainly things to do.17:25
ignaswe will have time for schooltool, that's for sure17:29
ignasthough i can't tell you exact numbers at the moment17:29
th1aRight.  Just let me know how soon you'll be ready to go.17:30
th1aYour iterations are out of sync with Stephan and Infrae at this point.17:30
ignaswell - we are kind of ready to go at the moment17:31
th1aOK.  Wanna do LDAP?17:31
ignasnot the whole team, but I am working on schooltool at the moment whether it is the writing of proposal or polishing resource booking ...17:31
ignasi guess we can do LDAP17:32
ignasnow what about - time outs on attendance records ?17:32
ignasor we will wait for beta testers for that ?17:33
th1aAlso, someone has to figure out how to actually create a SchoolBell package from the new trunk.17:33
ignasexpiry of workflows17:33
ignasso 1 year old unexplained unresolved absence would not hang in there forever17:33
faassenLDAP is not something that can just be done in isolation..17:34
faassenit ties in strongly to the demographics story, for instance.17:34
th1aIt probably would be wise to pause for a sanity check on attendance.17:34
ignasthough it is not that important when i think of it from the perspective of school admins managing the system 1 month old17:34
faassenas some demograhics information will be on the LDAP server.17:34
th1aLDAP for authentication.17:34
faassenright now I believe the persons/ folder is also used for authentication, but I may be wrong.17:35
faassenanyway, I'd recommend doing LDAP against an actual real-world LDAP server that people want to authenticate against.17:35
faassenanything before then runs a strong risk of not ending up as relevant.17:36
th1aWe wouldn't be sharing any more data with the LDAP server than we needed to.17:36
th1aWell, we can put out a call for people interested in testing against their LDAP server.17:36
faassenI'd like to see a proposal for pluggable authentication strategies then17:36
th1aThere are a few out there, I think.17:37
th1aPeople interested in using SchoolTool with LDAP, I mean.17:38
th1aNot authentication proposals.17:38
faassenthat'd be good.17:38
faassenanyway, I'd like tos ee a proposal on how this is going to happen, the pluggable auth.17:38
faassenas I'd probably want to comment on the way it overlaps with demographics.17:38
ignasyes indeed users who want integration with LDAP are many17:38
faassenand that needs to be coordinated.17:38
th1aWell yes, we'd need to write a proposal ;-)17:39
faassenanyway, LDAP servers often have demographics information in there already.17:39
faassenand people who want to integrate with LDAP want that demographics info.17:39
faassenat least frequently they want email addresses that are in there, in my experience, for instance.17:39
faassenand it might also impact the search interface. if you are going to authorize a user for something, say.17:39
ignasmaybe it might be more sane for infrae to do LDAP then?17:40
faassenno, it'd work for me if you did it.17:40
th1aThat was the original plan.17:40
faassenI just want to make sure it happens right.17:40
ignasi see17:41
th1aI'll think about it some more, but I'm feeling like one good task right now would be simply building SchoolBell from the current trunk.17:41
faassenit can be either way for me, but I just want to make sure I know what's going on and can offer feedback in time.17:41
faassenas this might overlap work I'm doing.17:42
th1aWe haven't tried that yet.17:42
faassenI mean, I considered LDAP during th demographics work, and it's fairly complicated.17:42
faassenas suddenly data isn't in the ZODB anymore but retrieved from LDAP.17:42
th1afaassen:  No doubt that the first pass at LDAP has to be absolutely the simplest thing that could work for authentication.17:42
ignasfaassen: i was thinking of something more simple - as in no automagic synchronization yet, only authentication17:43
faassenyes, I agree, but you still need to synchronize usernames somehow.17:43
ignasand event for authentication - one would probably have to create "person" objects on schooltool either manualy or with some script17:43
faassenand you have to consider how this gets installed.17:43
faassenas things need to continue to work with and without LDAP.17:43
faassenwith Silva we automatically create the equivalent to person objects.17:44
faassenwhenever someone logs in through LDAP and that person object doesn't exist yet.17:44
faassenthat works pretty well.17:44
faassenanyway, whatever decisions are made they need to be discussed, that's my point.17:45
faassennow I'll go back to eggs.17:45
th1aThanks faassen.17:46
th1ajinty:  ayt?17:47
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5960:17:49
povbot`/svn/commits: Include zc.table now.17:49
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5961:17:49
povbot`/svn/commits: Fix includes for zc.resourcelibrary and add them for zc.table.17:49
faassenis still in use on the trunk?17:51
faassenit seems to contain outdated information.17:51
faassenI want to just throw it out if possible. :)17:52
th1aWhat is it for?17:53
faassenit can be used by I believe to list what is included.17:54
faassenbut it's seriously out of date as far as I can say.17:54
faassenand my that pulls in eggs tries to (uselessly and harmlessly) use it.17:55
faassenand then it complains hey, this stuff is not found.17:55
faassenand spams the console.17:55
faassenI think if I just remove it it'll stop bleating, but perhaps I'm wrong and it's in use somehow.17:55
th1aDefinitely something to discuss with jinty before blowing away, but then again, you're in a branch.17:56
faassenit's in use in which is definitely not in use. :)17:56
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5962:17:58
povbot`/svn/commits: Remove old which was out of date and was creating spamminess when using
ignasth1a: so when will you have a list of tasks for PoV ?17:58
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povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5963:18:08
povbot`/svn/commits: Fix XML bug.18:08
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jintyth1a: pong18:35
th1ajinty:  Can you make the meeting tomorrow?18:35
jintyyeah, i should be able to18:36
th1aOK.  We need to talk packaging.18:36
jintywant to give me a heads up so that I can mull over things?18:36
th1aignas is looking for something to do in the near term, and figuring out how to package SchoolBell from the new trunk is one thing that has to happen at some point.18:36
th1aAnd generally building SchoolTool packages from the new trunk.18:37
jintypackage as in debian packaging?18:37
th1aNot really.18:37
th1aWell, making SchoolTool from the trunk is not tricky.18:37
th1aBut there is some zpkg magic we're anticipating to make SchoolBell tarballs?18:37
th1aThere is at least a theoretical plan for this, correct?18:38
jintythere is some stuff done.18:38
jintya zpkg setup at least18:38
th1aHow long would it take for ignas to make a SchoolBell, do you think?18:39
jintyI can't make that estimate right now...18:39
th1aWell, that's your heads up to mull it over.18:40
ignasth1a: it is hard to estimate it from jintys poinf og view, as there might be some extraneous code dependencies that will have to be removed18:40
th1aWe can discuss it in more detail tomorrow.18:41
jintyre: LDAP, I had a ping from stockholm (skolelinux) about that. Apparently it would be usefull for their user management system.18:43
jintyfaassen: feel free to throw away, it's a historical artifact18:45
faassenjinty: oh, thanks.18:58
faassenjinty: question..18:58
faassenjinty: about eggs.18:59
faassenjinty: I just discovered that eggs work when I do..18:59
faassenjinty: export PYTHONPATH=/path/to/eggs/src18:59
faassenjinty: python # which imports some code in an egg18:59
faassenbut it doesn't work when I do:18:59
faassen# no PYTHONPATH stuff here18:59
faassenpython # which does pythonpath stuff with sys.path19:00
faasseni.e, the following script won't work.19:00
faassenimport os, sys19:00
faassenbasedir = os.path.abspath(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]))19:00
faassendel sys.path[0]19:00
faassensys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(basedir, 'Zope3', 'src'))19:00
faassenimport zc.resourcelibrary19:00
jintyIIRC there was something about import site; site.addsitedir()19:00
faassenaah, that's a useful hint.19:00
faassenI was figuring it wasn't due to some site being picked up.19:01
jintyi.e. site.addsitedir() is called on the list in PYTHONPATH19:01
jintyI think that in order for .pth files to be used, the directory has to be a site19:02
faassenhm, just looping through the list in PYTHONPATH is causing everything to hang.19:03
faassenand doing addsite19:03
faassenand it appears to work if I just addsitedir Zope3/src19:04
faassenexcept that then it can't import the schooltool package anymore. :)19:04
jinty# add src to path19:04
jintysrc = os.path.join(here, 'src')19:04
jintysys.path.insert(0, src) # put at beginning to avoid one in site_packages19:04
jintyimport site19:04
faassenso I shall be careful and add it twice.19:04
jintyi used that code in sqlos19:04
faassenI will do that.19:04
faassenexcept somehow it won't work, schooltool package cannot be found19:05
jintyhmm, how can I duplicate your setup?19:05
faassencheckout the schooltool-eggs branch.19:06
faassenat first I thought it worked but that was because I had Zope3/src on my PYTHONPATH manually19:06
jintyok, got it, now how do I make it fail?19:07
faassenokay, well, try starting schooltool-server.py19:07
faassenwait, perhaps I demolished that file too much19:07
faasseni accidentally wiped out an import19:08
faassenthere we go.19:08
faassensorry for the false alarm.19:08
jintyby the way, this site.addsitedir stuff changed in setuptools 0.6a11, became easier, so I am not sure that it is necessary anymore19:10
faassenI think I use that version.19:10
povbot`/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 5964:19:15
povbot`/svn/commits: Moved templates into a separate folder.19:15
ignasth1a: ping :)19:17
th1aignas: pong.19:17
ignasregarding timetable resource  booking conflict19:18
ignasyou want wornings in where ?19:18
ignaswait a sec19:18
ignasi'll give you options :)19:18
ignasa) section view in the part "Resources", b) book resources view in the "tab" "current resources", c) book resources view mark busy resources in the Available resources "tab"19:21
ignasor some combination of the above19:21
th1aLet me check against my server.19:23
ignasif you have sample data relevant views are:19:24
ignasand http://localhost:7080/sections/section000/19:24
th1aRe-generating sample data...19:26
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5965:19:32
povbot`/svn/commits: Have to add site dirs so that eggs will be picked up.19:32
th1aI probably could have just found a relevant Data.fs lying around...19:32
ignasanother question - what kind of info do you want to see in there ? in the normal resource booking view we were showing conflicting events, this time it's not feasible19:34
th1aNot feasible in what sense?19:34
ignasgiven the set up of "10 conflicting events by John, 100 conflicts with Math for 9th grade, 9 events for 9 different users "19:35
ignasthe amount of timetable events you are attaching a resource to is ~50-10019:36
ignaswhich means that in busy cases you can get enormous amount of conflicts19:36
th1aOK, so lets assume the user is trying to do this in a relatively sane way.19:36
ignaseither in the past or in the future19:36
th1aThey are booking the resource for the section before the beginning of the term.19:37
th1aSpecifically, they are booking the room for the section.19:37
th1aIf another section is already booked for the room, we want them to get a clear warning.19:37
ignas"if another section has booked the room at the same time" - show the name of the section with a link to it's resource editing view19:38
th1aThis resource booked for Section XXX for term fall06.19:38
th1aFor individual calendar events, perhaps we should just note the number of conflicts and link to the resource calendar.19:38
th1aLet them investigate further there.19:39
ignassounds sane19:39
ignaswhile for sections - imho, that will be painfully unusable, though i guess we can't do anything better soon enough19:39
ignasor maybe not19:40
th1aWell, you just have to back out one or the other.19:40
povbot`/svn/commits: * faassen committed revision 5966:19:40
povbot`/svn/commits: Move include of zc.resourcelibrary meta package up so that directives are registered.19:40
ignasoh, in the perfect world - one section event a week19:40
ignasyes ?19:40
ignasand different sections for different times of the week19:40
ignasas with our current sample data setup sections have 6 events a week19:41
ignasif someone will do that in the real world - he will have a lot of pain when solving conflicts19:42
th1aI can't think of any easy way to handle this, except by doing what any sane person would do, and set up the timetables first.19:42
ignasth1a: you should start writing a guide on "how to set up schooltool for your school"19:43
th1aI mean, in a school with a rotating schedule like our sample data school, everything runs on that schedule.19:43
th1aYes, I've started a guide for our partner schools.19:43
ignaspost it somewhere so i could read it too, as to better understand what paths our users are going to be using19:44
ignaseven a WIP will do19:45
ignasth1a: step 7 should probably do "make run" as in case of "svn up" it would clean up stale pyc files, adn rebuild Zope3 is needed19:50
th1aignas:  I'll take choice b) for the location of the warnings.19:57
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