IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2005-12-02

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povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5385:12:05
povbot`/svn/commits: A little bit of documentation of the automatic build config. Also attempt to make sure that mkschooltoolinst asks no questions (bad for automation...)12:05
jintyyay, nightly tarballs work again!12:23
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th1asrichter:  ayt?19:20
th1ahoi ignas.19:27
ignasa question - we need an Abscence explaination workflow, or attendance tracking workflow ?19:28
th1aMy question exactly.19:28
th1aYou're definitely right about mixing tardy into the workflow.19:28
th1aWhy would we need IsPresent?19:29
ignaswell - if it was a workflow for "attendance tracking"19:30
th1aWe're not tracking the state of the student.19:30
ignasthen it would be a resolution state19:30
ignasbut if we need a workflow for "resolution of unexplained tardies/abscences"19:30
ignasor two workflows for them19:30
th1aIt is probably one workflow.19:31
ignasfor resolving an abscence ?19:31
th1aAbsences and tardies.19:31
th1aI mean, it would have two branches.19:31
ignaswell it all begins with abscence19:31
ignasthen splits into unexplained abscence or a tardy19:31
th1aSince absences become tardies.19:31
ignasso physically it is an abscence resolution19:32
th1aOne process.19:32
ignasabscecne can resolve into an explained tardy eventually19:32
ignasif i understand you correctly19:32
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th1aFundamentally, I think of this as a document workflow.19:33
ignasso if i am marking someone as absent19:33
ignasand then say oops, i misspelled the name19:33
ignasi will have to "DELETE" the workflow ?19:34
ignasand the permission "who can delete a workflow thus making the abscence into presence"19:34
th1aWell, once we have more varieties of explanations, that would be one end state.19:34
ignaswill be hardcoded into our application19:34
th1aYou wouldn't delete the workflow, you'd resolve it as an error.19:35
ignasi see19:35
th1aWell, there'll just be codes.19:35
th1aNot different states.19:35
th1aBelieve me, there are codes.19:35
ignaswell - we will have 2 states anyway ... 1 state - there is a workflow, another state - there is no workflow ...19:35
th1aYou'll be parsing lists of them soon enough :-(19:35
th1aThat's for a later date, however.19:36
th1aOne other thing that came up when doing the workflow is that we'll probably have to define an AttendanceAdmin group which will include the members of the various groups who have permission to administer attendance.19:38
th1aWfMC seems to want to assign the workflow to one group/role.19:38
th1aSo anyhow, I think the workflow starts when a student is marked absent.  You don't need a workflow if they are present.  You aren't processing the student, you're processing the absence report.19:46
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th1aThe student is not changing state.19:46
th1a(OK, WfMC doesn't use states, but you know what I mean)19:47
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povbot`/svn/commits: * hoffman committed revision 5386:20:01
povbot`/svn/commits: Adding a couple points to the WfMC tutorial.20:01
povbot`/svn/commits: * vidas committed revision 5387:20:06
povbot`/svn/commits: Suggested another attendance API.20:06
ignasone question is - IIRC if workflow reaches the end state - it can't be modified anymore20:28
ignaswhat then ?20:28
ignashow would you unexplain an excused abscence ?20:28
th1aWell, it doesn't seem like it would require a workflow, as such, in most cases.20:29
th1aThat is, you're going to end up with a code annotated to the absence, or something like that.20:29
th1aYou can always have a subsequent method of modifying it and logging the change.20:30
th1aI would imagine.20:30
th1aBut that would just be a sort of admin override.20:30
th1aIt wouldn't routinely trigger a whole new series of steps.20:31
th1aMake sense?20:31
th1aOr perhaps, in the future, when this whole workflow is more complex, we'll see why we need to include admin overrides in the workflow, but this workflow is just to get started.20:35
th1aThis version.20:36
ignasi guess we can rewire everything in that case ...20:42
ignasbecause i thought that some schools might have strict rules/workflows for unexplaining/modification of such data20:42
ignasbut we are not aiming at all the schools at the moment anyway20:42
th1aWell, the strict rule would probably be that a school administrator would have to do it.20:43
th1aBut generally that would be the kind of thing that would mostly be sorted out face to face.20:43
th1aI mean, you could have a system that allowed parents to submit appeals online, etc., etc., etc.20:43
th1aBut that's a whole system in itself.20:44
th1aThe main thing is that the change would have to be logged.20:44
ignasi see20:46
th1aNote that my approach here is to put something simple together that we can plop in front of schools for feedback.20:48
th1aI think we'll save everyone time and confusion by showing them something simple before asking for detailed requrements.20:48
th1aRather than simply asking them to imagine their requirements in a void.20:49
ignaswell - using wfmc is still looking contradictory to keeping it simple ...20:49
ignaswhat is the point of using extensible foundation20:49
ignasand not building extensibility20:49
ignasand extensibility is not the "simplest thing that works"20:50
th1aNot sure what you mean by not building extensibility.20:50
ignassorry, i just caugfht myself wanting overengineer everything again :/20:50
ignasthe difficult part to mee seems integrating the workflow not the size of the workflow itself ...20:51
ignasi might be very wrong though20:52
th1aYou're right.20:52
ignasthat's why i am thinking of - how deep will we integrate it20:52
ignaswhich we will not be able to change by modifying XML20:52
ignasor adding some code later (easily at least)20:53
ignasstill - i don't know enough about wfmc, because well - i haven't implemented anything using it yet ...20:54
ignasso it might be a lot simpler than i think20:54
th1aThat's why I'm trying to keep this first case simple.20:54
th1aYou can spiral off into grand visions of the whole application being built around an interlocked series of workflows.20:55
th1aBut I think that's too much.20:55
th1aI see this as something that will help keep the application sane 5 to 10 years down the road.20:56
th1aYet hopefully not so complex that we'll miss all our deadlines ;-)20:56
ignasi seem to understand it21:04
th1aOnce I actually stepped through srichter's doc last night I had more luck with JaWE than I have in the past.21:04
th1aThat's a crappy UI overall.21:04
ignasmanaged to get stuck in like 5 seconds :)21:10
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povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5388:21:46
povbot`/svn/commits: Lists in ReStructuredText shouldn't be indented (if they are, you get a <ul> inside a <blockquote>).21:46
povbot`/svn/commits: Fixed a typo (follwed).21:46
povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 5389:22:09
povbot`/svn/commits: Converted the bulleted list of terms into a definition list.22:09
povbot`/svn/commits: Corrected the spelling of work items.22:09
povbot`/svn/commits: Changed "the the" to "to the" in the following sentence:22:09
povbot`/svn/commits: For manual applications you also need to add the application *the* the participant's work items.22:09
povbot`/svn/commits: I'm not sure I picked the correct pronoun, since I have a very hazy idea about the relationship between applications and work items.22:09
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