IRC log of #schooltool for Sunday, 2005-10-23

ignasinvestigating ...00:04
ignas391 - only shows up in the trunk iirc00:05
ignasbut if you'd try reproducing it on the release branch it would be more reassuring00:05
ignasthough iirc it was introduced during srichters refactoring00:06
jintyyeah, just discovered no ShowTimetables adapter in the release branch00:06
ignas424 - well we missed it00:07
jintyah, good thing it was marked needs-merge then;)00:07
jintyshould I, or will you?00:07
ignasi don't have release branch handy at the moment00:08
jintyi'll give it a try and complain loudly if I can't;)00:08
ignasi'll check out the release branch then00:09
ignasporting between the new trun and the release is a major pain00:09
jintyyeah, this one conflicts...00:10
ignassvn merge -r 5199:5200 svn+ssh:// src/schooltool/browser/ didn't show me any conflicts :/00:13
ignastesting it00:14
ignasran out of disk space while checking it out00:16
jintyyeah, i had tried back-porting it to schoolbell first...00:17
ignasis this one relevant to ST ?00:17
jinty Actually I have no idea, this part of the code is just random letters to me;)00:18
jintyignas: seems like the tests pass when I use the right backport command00:27
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5300:00:30
povbot/svn/commits: Back-port of 5200 to fix on the release branch. Thnks ignas!00:30
th1abskahan:  A bit off-topic, but I don't understand how to give permissions to all members on the SchoolTool site.00:32
th1aWe need to make sure that everyone with an account can contribute to the documentation and roadmap sections.00:32
jintyheh, th1a, just in time;)00:35
ignasjinty, when is the release ?00:37
jintybtw, I am blocked on the new live cd by dapper not being open yet, neither do I have the two weeks I need to download and upload one from my machine00:37
ignasbecasue bskahan is still fixing one of the TZ issues ?00:37
jintyI was just quilckly going to ritually ask th1a to get the latest translations, then cut it00:38
ignasi see00:38
th1ajinty:  OK.00:38
jintyAFAIK bskahan is finished00:38
bskahanjinty: I'm done with the bugs that will make it into the release00:39
th1aWell, I'm headed to the orchestra.00:39
ignasjinty, AFAYK yep, AFAIK - no :)00:39
ignasoh :)00:39
bskahanignas pointed out a distinction in the recurrence bug00:39
th1aIt seems to me that there is no particular rush, and perhaps taking one last look at the state of the timezones on Monday is not a bad idea.00:39
bskahanI'm still wworking on it00:39
bskahanbut I wouldn't hold up the release on it00:41
jintyso we dump co-ordination with packagers and wait till monday?00:41
jintyer actually no, I'm travelling next week00:42
jintyso has to be today...00:42
bskahanthe remaining bug appears to only affect certain recurrence rules00:42
bskahanit needs to be fixed, but its less Brown Bag than the bugs that got fixed00:43
ignasno one of us lives in melbourne anyway :D00:43
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bskahanignas: exatly ;)00:43
bskahanth1a: I thought we established that anyone logged in could acess those sections allready?00:45
th1abskahan:  I thought we had, too, but then it didn't seem to work.00:46
th1aAnd I couldn't figure out how to give permissions to everyone with the member role.00:46
th1aDo you have to do that in the ZMI?00:47
th1aYou can't do it in the sharing tab.00:47
th1aYou can assign people a local role,00:47
th1aor give permissions to groups or persons.00:47
bskahanyou do it in the ZMI00:49
bskahando you have a standard user account to try?00:50
bskahanyou want everyone to access documentation and roadmap, correct?00:50
bskahanoh, I know00:53
bskahanwe only made FAQ's publicly addable00:54
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5301:00:57
povbot/svn/commits: Updating schooltool RELEASE.txt, all hail explicit log messages:)00:57
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5302:01:16
povbot/svn/commits: Add unquote_uri to schoolbell release branch and remove the dependency on schooltool.01:16
ignasforgot about that01:17
jintynp, but I'm going to revert your patch to schooltool and use the schoolbell one.01:18
jintyactually I'm not, it would be nice for people still to be able to use schooltool 0.11.3 with schoolbell
bskahanwhat are the changes in schooltool itself?01:36
bskahanthe performance and timezone changes are in schoolbell01:36
jintyI'm just trying to be kind by not gratuitously breaking compatibility, though I think it is already broken01:38
jintyre changes in schooltool, not too much01:38
* bskahan nods01:39
* bskahan is watching magda use an online gradebook01:39
bskahangood learning experience01:41
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5303:01:41
povbot/svn/commits: Update the schoolbell RELEASE.txt.01:41
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5304:01:42
povbot/svn/commits: Final tweak to schooltool RELEASE.txt01:42
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5305:01:43
povbot/svn/commits: Tagging SchoolBell 1.2.301:43
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5306:01:43
povbot/svn/commits: Tagging SchoolTool 0.11.301:43
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5307:01:44
povbot/svn/commits: Set SchoolBell version number in release01:44
* jinty loves watching whild gintas' script does the work01:45
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5308:01:45
povbot/svn/commits: Set SchoolTool version number in release01:45
povbot/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 5309:01:46
povbot/svn/commits: Bound SchoolTool 0.11.3 to SchoolBell 1.2.301:46
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jelknersrichter: do you have a moment?15:22
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jelknersrichter: did pcardune ever talk to you about the permissions issues he is having in CanDo?15:33
jelknerand you would be the person to talk to, yes?15:34
srichtermhh, maybe15:35
jelknerwe have a whole school of teachers now using CanDo, so they are really putting it (and thus SchoolTool) through its paces.15:35
srichtermy knowledge about security is limited15:35
srichterI have certainly not implemented anything security related in SchoolTool15:36
srichteror in Zope 3 for that matter15:36
jelknerwe are uncovering things that get pretty deeply into the plumbing of schooltool15:36
jelknerso who has?15:36
srichterbut I know enough to know how it works15:36
jelknerok, well that is a good start15:36
jelknerpaul doesn't understand how it works, and that is making it difficult for him to address some of our recent problems15:37
jelkneri'm looking for a place i can send paul to get him some more schooltool schooling...15:39
jelknersrichter: what would you recommend?15:39
jelknerjinty: good morning!15:40
srichterjelkner: well, we could do a one-on-one session here in Boston15:40
srichteror I could come to you guys15:40
jintyjelkner: morn15:40
jelknersrichter: paul is at college in washington state, the rest of us are in washington, dc15:41
srichterI see15:42
jelknerwe've been doing everything remotely15:42
srichterare there more developers for CanDo?15:42
jelknerpaul is the only active developer15:43
jelknerthat is a problem, of course15:43
jelknersince he is a full time college student with limited time to work on it15:43
jelknersrichter: i used to be registered, but that has expired15:44
jelknerand i don't know how to renew it15:45
jelknerdid you see my reply?15:45
jintyjelkner: should we start?15:56
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jelknerjinty: are you ready?15:58
jelkneri'm actually not15:59
jelknerand let me tell you why15:59
jelkneri am in nj15:59
jelknerand i live in dc15:59
jelkneri was reading over my homework and it soon became clear i will need my gpg stuff15:59
jelknerwhich i don't have15:59
jelkneri created it in australia at the ubuntu down under16:00
jelknerand i have a key, signed by several folks16:00
jelknerbut i didn't bring it16:00
jelkneri haven'16:00
jintyactually, you don't have to sign packages if you are not going to distribute them16:00
jelknerquestion then:16:00
jelknerhow much total time will i need to have to learn to make a simple package?16:01
jelkneron the docs it suggests that it will be quite a bit of time16:01
jelkneri'm nervous about that16:01
jintyI think the answer is quite a bit, though depends on what type of package16:01
jintyI think python modules are about the simplest16:02
jelkneri really don't have quite a bit16:02
jelknerok, let's say we limit ourselves to python modules16:02
jelknerand all i want to do is learn to maintain a few python packages16:02
jelknercando and maybe gvr, let's say16:03
jelkneris that doable in a much shorter period of time?16:03
jintycando contains a daemon, that makes it quite a bit more complex16:03
jintygvr, i'll have to look at it16:04
jelknerbut before you do, we need to figure this out16:04
jintyI am trying to estimate how long, but it's difficult16:04
jelknerbecause if I can't really package cando, then it is questionable whether i should be doing this right now16:05
jintya lot of things that are natural for me now you would have learn16:05
jelkneryes, i know16:05
jelknerreading the docs made that clear16:05
jelknereven the intro contained a list of things that i would need to spend time learning about16:06
jintycando should become simpler to maintain when it becomes a schooltool plugin16:06
jintyat that point it will only be a little bit more complex than a python module16:06
jelknerand that will happen this spring16:06
jintyafter schooltool trunk is released16:07
jintybut I think the transition will be quite complex16:07
jelknerwhat do you say we wait until then?16:07
jintybut I also wanted to ask you about getting to that point16:08
jelknerok, shoot16:08
jintyI want to throw myself at the cando reposiory16:08
jintyand move it to use zpkgtools16:09
jintyfix the translation thing16:09
jelknerwhat translation thing?16:09
jintyextracting translation templates16:09
jelkneris that part of internationalization?16:09
jintyyeah. want more explanation?16:10
jelknerno, i got it16:10
jelknerjust let me know how much time you need16:10
jelknerso i can let aziz know what is coming16:10
jintyok, let me do an itemized estimate and send it to you two buy mail16:11
jelknerthanks, jinty!16:11
jelkneri'm a bit nervous about cando right now16:11
jelknerfeature wise, it is awesome16:12
jelknerdave loves it16:12
jintyin my point of view it is better to get these major changes out of the way early in the release cycle so that the bugs can get workrd out16:12
jelkneri agree16:12
jintyalso nightly trunk tarball builds;)16:12
jelknerthat will build debs from the nightly tarballs?16:13
jintyno, just build and test the tarball every night.16:13
jintyI don't have the infrastructure yet to build packages automatically16:14
jelknerwhen might that come?16:14
jelknerfor cando 2006?16:14
jintyI still have to sit down and figure out how to build schooltool tarballs with the new trunk16:14
jelknerdo you need anything else from me now?16:15
jintyAnd i'm not even sure how16:15
jelkneri want to make a few phone calls16:15
jelknerso if we are finished i'll sign off16:15
jintyProbably we should get paul's buy in for this. It's going to be rough for a while;)16:16
jintyI think thats all,16:16
jelkneryes, talking to paul is one of the things i will do today16:16
jelknerok, then, talk to you later in the week16:17
jintysure cheers;)16:17
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jintyhoi pcardune!19:30
pcardunejinty, hello19:32
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jintyjust wanted to run some cando devel ideas by you19:33
pcardunewho's the person to ask about functional tests using the testbrowser library?  How do you log in a schooltool user?  the log in button doesn't show up19:33
pcardunejinty, same here!19:33
jintythese were them ^^^?19:34
pcardunethat was more specific19:34
th1asrichter is the testbrowser guru.19:35
pcardunemore about things regarding deletion of objects and some traversal type stuff19:35
pcardunefor example, when an object is deleted, we don't really want to delete it.  we just want to hide it so that it is recoverable later19:36
* jinty hasn't had enough free time to get into the nuts and bolts of the schooltool code, so generally restricts himself to build system and packaging stuff19:37
pcardunewell anyways, what were the cando devel ideas you were going to suggest?19:38
jintyto make the candotoo module a top level package19:38
jintyzpkgify the cando repository19:39
pcarduneyou took the words out of my mouth19:39
jintystart building cando tarballs19:39
jintyget i18n up and running19:39
pcarduneyes, that is absolutely in the plans... just as soon as i learn about zpkg and stop doing bug fixes19:39
pcarduneI need to set up i18n and also set up cando's own security roles and permissions19:40
jintyI'm meaning setting up the template extraction19:40
pcarduneI know next to nothing about i18n, and zpkg so all help is welcome19:41
jintyOk, I'll give the zpkg and i18n thing a go on a branch in the coming weeks19:42
pcardunethat would be great19:43
pcarduneschooltool 2006 is also using zpkg right?19:43
jintythe idea is that you can then build a cando tarball containing all the dependent packages from zope and schooltool automatically19:44
pcarduneand it will be seperate from Zope correct?  as in, you can have your own zope instance and just create a schooltool application object19:44
pcardunewould that also allow us in integrate other Zope3 objects like fckeditor?19:45
jintyI'm not sure I understand what you are saying about the application object19:46
jintyand if you are integrating with other Zope3 objects, please restrict yourself to what is released in the Zope3 tarball19:46
jintyotherwise dependencies for the ubuntu packages can become a real nightmare19:47
pcardunewell for example, lets say I had a zope instance already installed on my computer with various web applications running on it, I want to be able to add schooltool to that instance without having to run a whole seperate zope server19:47
jintyI thought I heard that the schooltool developers were considering dumping this use case19:48
jintyyep, that was the chatter on IRC, but you'd better speak to mgedmin19:49
* jinty goes to search irc logs19:50
pcardunesrichter, ayt?19:52
jinty around 18:5619:53
jintypcardune: btw what do you want the name of the top level CanDo python package to be schooltool.candotoo -> cando/candotoo19:54
pcardunepreferably there would be no candotoo19:55
pcardunejust cando's19:56
pcardune(which would require changing an awful lot of imports)19:56
jintyhmm, I wonder if it actually has to be done19:57
pcardunewell, the code should reflect the name of the package... so there is more to change than just imports19:58
jintyhow do you want the repository to look like?19:58
jintyor think it should?19:59
pcardunei guess, cando/cando?19:59
pcarduneor rather cando/src?19:59
pcardunewell, im confused20:00
pcardunethis is where all the cando source files would live?20:00
jintyYeah, cando would ideally just consist of one module and a schooltool-include file20:01
pcarduneso then either cando/cando or cando/src/cando20:02
jintyyes, but I don't want to reproduce the entire schooltool top level directory for just one module20:03
jintythat's a lot of duplicated code that needs to be maintained20:03
* jinty realises he is rambling, but continues anyway20:04
pcardunewell, whatever you think makes sense as long as it doesn't have any candotoo's in it20:05
jintysure, i'll try to get rid of the candotoos...20:06
jintyhave you got any other requirements?20:06
pcarduneso, are you changing the trunk?20:07
jintyno, I will work on a branch until I am happy20:07
pcarduneok, great20:08
jintyalso I guess I need to get your sayso before porting the stuff to tunk20:08
jintyI don't want to rip your repository out from under your feet by surprise20:09
pcardunewill this mess up merging from the trunk to a branch? (for bug fixes)20:10
jintyI hope not too much, but could happen20:11
jintyhopefully the rate of bugfixes will slow down...20:12
pcarduneit should20:12
jintyalso I shouldn't be ready for a few weeks20:13
pcarduneok, then there definitly shouldn20:13
pcardunebe very few bug fixes at that point20:14
jintythis is also the right time to make such a big transition, there's still a lot of time to work out any kinks before the next major release20:16
pcardunesrichter, ayt?20:19
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srichterpcardune: yes20:35
pcarduneI was just on the phone with jelkner20:38
pcarduneand he wanted us to talk about logistics20:38
pcardunesrichter, do you have some time to talk about that?20:38
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Mattiasis this like ?22:40
Mattiasye. we currently use that interface in my school22:40
Mattiasits a Virtual Learning Enviornment22:42
srichterno, SchoolTool will be a SIS22:42
th1aStudent information system.22:42
Mattiaswhat will it be abel to do?22:42
srichterI assume is like Blackboard?22:42
Mattiasit got calendars, u can upload lessons, and so on22:43
th1aEnrollment, attendance, gradebook, demographic & conact info.22:43
th1aRight now SchoolTool does calendaring.22:43
Mattiasah. fronter does ;22:44
MattiasFiles may be exchanged, discussions held, individually tailored news may be provided, e-mails may be sent, and individual and common calendars may be established.22:44
MattiasThe learning activities of students may be stored in a digital portfolio giving support to life-long learning.22:44
th1aWe hope that people will create VLE's that integrate SchoolTool.22:45
Mattiasthis is a teacher tool right?22:47
srichterwell, I think it is a more a school administration tool22:49
srichterso, the main user base will be school administrators and teachers22:49
Mattiasmight be good :) i don't know of such an application yet22:50
th1aThere are lots of commercial versions, and zillions of home-made ones.22:50
th1aJust no prominent open source SIS.22:50
Mattiasi think our school got homemade one22:51
Mattiasbut it doesnt look so good22:51
Mattiaswell, im just a student so it doesnt matter to me :)22:52
Mattiasbut i'll recommend it22:52
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