IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2005-07-15

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povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4174:01:02
povbot/svn/commits: Base for js calendar.01:02
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4175:01:03
povbot/svn/commits: Whitespace/newline cleanup.  Slight tweak to js for schoolbell styling.01:03
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povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4176:01:13
povbot/svn/commits: Helps to tie things togehter.01:13
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gpaciHey.  Anybody home?02:49
pcardunesomehow, i don't think you are looking for me...02:49
th1aI am, but I should be asleep.02:49
gpaciAnybody home who we're not already communicating with in three other windows?02:49
gpaciWe've got some questions about the functional doctests.02:50
th1aIt's not very likely that I can answer them... I guess you guys are having your meeting now.  I'm in Italy so I'm a little confused about time.02:51
gpaciIt's time to eat Italian food.02:55
gpaciWhat city?02:55
th1a2:00 am is a bit late for dinner even in Italy.02:56
gpaciNever been there.  Are you getting a chance to see sights?02:56
pcardunethere is nothing to see in italy...02:56
th1aNot too much.  Walked around the old city.  Took some pictures.02:56
gpaciOnly 2500 years of civilization.02:56
th1aMade some good contacts for possibly figuring out some EU funding.02:57
gpaciDoes Genoa still have its medieval walls?02:57
pcardunehow boring02:57
th1aThere are some fragments.02:57
gpaciEU funding comes with EU red tape.02:57
th1aYes, of course.02:58
th1aBut if someone else deals with it, it is ok with me!02:58
th1aWell, I have to get up in four hours to start my journey home, so I'm going to have another shot at sleeping.03:00
th1aGood luck, guys.03:00
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pcardunei figured out why it doesn't work...03:01
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gpaciIt looks like there's a bunch of boilerplate it wasn't expecting.03:04
gpacithla: Thanks.03:04
pcardunei got it to pass03:04
pcardunejust look at my screen03:04
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pcardunehello jelkner03:11
jelknerpcardune: hi paul03:11
gpaciWere you referring to FIT?03:11
pcardunepossibly, i don't know what it is called03:12
jelknerpcardune: i have a request...03:12
pcardunelet me look03:12
jelknerplease conduct cando discussions on this irc channel rather than aim03:12
jelkner1. other developers can see the discussion and help us out03:12
jelkner2. we get a record of our effort automatically on the web in a place we can easily find.03:13
pcardunenvm, its in the zope book... the one you can get off as a pdf... somewhere in the functional testing section03:13
gpaciTranslation: "Paul, George, and Eldar: Do you have something you'd like to share with the entire class?"03:14
gpaci(jelkner laughed)03:14
pcarduneha ha ha03:14
gpacipcardune: nvm?03:14
pcardunei thought it was in the zope book that I had a hard copy of...03:14
gpaciWhat's the volume of existing functional doctests? Tens? Millions?03:15
pcarduneelkner has both, ask him for the other one, the one with lex in the contributors section03:15
pcardunein schooltool?03:15
pcardunetens of tens03:16
gpaciSo, more than six.03:16
pcardunethat number doesn't do justice03:16
gpaci...but it is Pythonic.03:16
pcarduneit considers one entire file, one test, even though that one file could test 100 different aspects of any given thing03:16
gpaciWhere can I look to find these functional doctests?  All the ftest directories?03:16
pcardunethey seem *really* tedious to me unless you had some really amazing doctest generator03:18
gpaciThere sure are a lot of them.03:18
gpaciI ls'ed all the ftest files (cf. my screen) and it looks like about 150 files.03:18
gpaciSee, this is what I don't like about doctest: you can't get rid of duplication by factoring out a method.03:19
pcardunesure you can03:19
gpaciWell, I take that back: but the method won't be in doctest anymore.03:19
pcardunebut methods shouldn't me in doc tests anyhow03:20
pcardunethe only methods you will want are for setting up test data and the like03:20
gpaciDuplication really shouldn't be in doctests (or anywhere).03:20
pcardunei can't imagine that anything else is duplicated other than setup03:21
pcarduneand teardown03:21
gpaciSo what makes the doctests tedious?03:21
gpaciUsually, repetition is the mother of tedium.03:22
pcardunehave to write <li><a href="http://localhost/frogpond 7 times in a row03:22
gpaciSo it would be nice to have a matcher that can factor out constants.03:22
pcarduneyou bet03:22
gpaciI'd like to do things the way they've been done, but not if it's really painful.03:23
gpaciAnd especially not if it's really painful to me.03:23
tvonyou can use '...' to clear out a lot of things you don't care about03:23
pcardunebut we do care about them...03:23
pcardunewe care about them 7+ times over03:23
tvonah, I see what you are saying03:23
gpacitvon: Wanna take up the pro-doctest side?03:25
tvonWhat's wrong with doctests?03:25
tvonjust ftests or doctests in general?03:25
gpaciWe're thinking: tedium.03:25
gpaciMostly the ftest doctests.03:25
tvonftests are tedious, but I think that is the nature of ftesting03:26
tvonnot that I have loads of experience with ftesting outside of doctests or anything like that03:26
tvonbut you are testing the output of HTML page being rendered...03:26
tvonand you can still use python however you want to test the result03:27
tvonif you wish03:27
gpaciSo we could leverage that: come up with helper methods, say.03:27
gpaciLike, is_this_thingie_present(saved_response)03:28
gpaciI think it's worth a try.  Like I said, I'd hate to do things too differently.03:29
pcardunegotta love the naming conventions with that one03:29
pcarduneits ok to be different George03:29
tvonwell POV is in charge of checking code so their opinion matters the most03:29
pcardune(they're asleep)03:29
gpaciMy mom says I'm Special.03:30
tvonthats the problem with Lithuanians ;)03:30
pcardunethey're always sleepin around?03:30
pcarduneok, then lets do it03:30
gpacipcardune: You, Eldar (the Real Eldar), and I can see what we come up with to relieve the repetition and saying stuff twice.03:31
pcardunesomething really important that we should follow, is the naming convention for fields... i sorta came up with my own03:31
pcardunewho's the fake Eldar?03:32
gpaciDo a /who gpaci .03:32
gpaci(no .)03:32
tvonand /whois ;)03:32
pcarduneok, shall we all huddle around the same terminal then?03:33
gpaciVirtually, yes.  For 30 minutes or so.03:33
gpaciDo they have a written naming convention?03:33
pcarduneno... unless zope has one, which i haven't heard of before03:34
gpaciWhat's their convention for field names?03:34
pcardunegood question03:34
pcarduneactually, to tell you the truth, I don't like their front end at all03:35
gpaciSo no ugly prefix or anything?  Just c-style?03:35
pcarduneit is to split up for me03:35
gpaciFront end?03:35
tvongpaci: in the html it ends up as field.some_field03:35
tvonzope does that though03:35
pcarduneyeah, I don't like that either03:36
pcardunei mean, if you wanted to manage individuals in a class...03:36
pcarduneand you were in a normal american high school...03:36
pcardunethere would be 1600 individuals...03:36
tvonthe organization is not very good03:36
gpaciWell, I have to look at crap like m_how_about_weMixStyles all day.03:36
gpaciAnd in C++.03:36
tvonthough we at Etria did the styling :-P03:36
pcardunethats a looong list to use check boxes with a 10px minumum padding03:36
gpaciSo I can live with first_name in my free time.03:36
tvonpcardune: I'm working on batching tomorrow actually03:36
gpaciEritrea?  How many countries is this team from?03:37
pcardunei'm in senegal!03:37
tvongpaci: hah, thats actually where our name came from03:37
gpaciI'm someplace they speak Ubuntu....03:38
tvonI'm in the US03:38
gpacitvon: What city?03:39
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tvongpaci: Baltimore MD03:39
gpaci(tvon: just trying to aim the orbital mind-control laser accurately...)03:39
gpacitvon: You should join us in person some Thursday.03:40
tvongpaci: where are you?03:40
gpacitvon: Arlington, VA: just west of DC.03:40
tvongpaci: ah, cool03:40
gpacitvon: Directions, etc. are at .03:41
gpaciOK: P,E,and G will now go to Eldar's screen....03:41
pcardunemy screen just crashed03:42
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povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4177:08:06
povbot/svn/commits: Fix rendering to include previously set values.08:06
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povbot/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4178:13:04
povbot/svn/commits: Added test for buildPageHeader.13:04
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povbot/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4179:13:42
povbot/svn/commits: Removed pdfcal.disablePDFGeneration and integrated it into DailyCalendarView.  Made the disabled state the default so that if SchoolBell is run inside Zope 3, PDF support is disabled implicitly (we don't know the font path).13:42
povbot/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4180:14:11
povbot/svn/commits: The location of an event is shown in the report now.14:11
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erchacheSERVER ARRIVES!16:02
erchachehehehehehe sun xeon16:03
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erchachejurjurjur installing ubuntu!17:25
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jintyerchache: ???17:47
jintyinteresting to see performance on your server...17:48
jintygood luck!17:51
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erchacheleft before see17:52
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povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4181:18:11
povbot/svn/commits: Hooked up Special Day view (Change Timetable for One Day), added an ftest, fixed a couple of minor bugs.18:11
povbot/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 4182:18:50
povbot/svn/commits: Fix for issue306.  Tested in cxoffice (wine).18:50
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povbot/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4183:19:05
povbot/svn/commits: Added weekly and monthly PDF views.19:05
pcarduneI'm having trouble with these doc tests19:07
pcardune    - ...Competencies Template: testcomptemp...19:08
pcardune    ? ^^^                                   ^^^19:08
pcardune    +     <h1>Competencies Template: testcomptemp</h1>19:08
pcardune    ? ^^^^^^^^                                   ^^^^^19:08
pcardunedon't the "..." take care of that?  I have ELLIPSIS enabled19:08
tvonthe error is somewhere else19:09
tvonfiguring out broken ftests can be a huge pain19:09
pcardunei'm beginning to see that19:09
pcarduneanother point off for ftests...19:09
povbot/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 4184:19:10
povbot/svn/commits: Disabled the yearly PDF view.19:10
mgedminwildcards and diff don't mix well :(19:17
pcardunesomeone should add wildcard support to diffs19:18
ignaspcardune, go for it19:24
pcarduneat some point...19:24
pcarduneor maybe i'll just actually take a look at it now19:25
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erchachewell i write it to anybody see logs19:32
erchachemy new machine is a sun fire v60 with 2 gb of RAM, 180 gb HD ( 36 (18+18 raid1), and 2 of 73 gb) SCSI, 2 10/100/1000, xeon at 2.8 GHZ HT19:33
erchachei install basic system19:33
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erchacheon next week i install rest system19:33
erchachewell i write a mail now19:34
povbot/svn/commits: * alga committed revision 4185:19:38
povbot/svn/commits: Made the RESTive view for timetable schemas represent exceptionDays.19:38
pcarduneinteresting... apparenty there are three different kinds of diffs... NDIFF, UDIFF, and CDIFF... any idea what the difference is?19:45
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mgedminCDIFF looks like this19:53
mgedmin  original text19:53
mgedmin !line that changed19:53
mgedmin  more original text19:54
mgedmin new text19:54
mgedmin !line that changed19:54
mgedmin  more new text19:54
mgedminor something19:54
mgedminUDIFF looks like19:54
mgedmin  original text19:54
mgedmin -line that changed19:54
mgedmin +new line that changed19:54
mgedmin  more text19:54
mgedminNDIFF looks like UDIFF but it also indicates which characters changed within lines19:54
pcarduneoh, i see19:54
mgedminwe usually use NDIFF19:54
algatvon: any idea when the schoolwide calendar will be there?20:16
algamy current work is going to block on it fairly soon20:16
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pcardunethe way doctests are done isn't general enough21:12
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pcardunematching strings of html isn't good enough... because it cares about case and it cares about order21:14
pcardunewe only need to care about case and order *sometimes*21:14
mgedminyou can write assertions like21:14
mgedmin  >>> 'something' in output_string.lower()21:14
mgedmin   True21:14
eldarso what's the problem?21:15
eldar(hi, mgedmin)21:16
pcardunei want to say, does the html document have <some tag> with <some attributes>, when i don't care about the order of the attributes, but i do care about the case of their values, but not the case of anything else21:16
pcardunebut i do care about the order of the tags themselves21:16
eldarfirst you might want to have an iterator over the whole document21:17
pcardunei'm wondering if there is some python library for parsing html into tag objects21:17
pcarduneso we don't have to write one ourself21:18
pcardunewill look on google now21:18
eldargombo did something like that when he was parsing competencies from the websites21:18
mgedmin(hi eldar)21:18
pcarduneeldar: that could be really useful21:18
mgedminuse xpath expressions21:18
mgedminperhaps schooltool's XMLDocument could help21:19
mgedmindoc = XMLDocument(snippet_of_xhtml)21:19
mgedminlen(doc.query('/table/tr[@class="blah"]')) == 421:19
pcardunewhat file is that in?21:20
mgedminpcardune, do you know how to use ctags?21:21
mgedminthey are _very_ useful21:21
mgedminextremely useful21:22
mgedminbest thing since sliced bread21:22
pcardunesounds like a good idea21:22
mgedminbasically, apt-get install ctags-exuberant21:22
mgedminctags -R .21:22
mgedminthen in vim you can use :tag Name to jump to a tag21:22
mgedminthat's assuming you use vim and a debian-based os ;)21:22
mgedminmany editors support tags21:22
pcardunei use vim... and eventually a debian based os21:22
mgedminby "jump to a tag" I mean go directly to a definition of a class/function with a given name21:23
pcarduneright right21:23
mgedmin has more21:23
mgedmingnu id-utils is another very useful tool -- grep on steroids21:23
pcarduneI don't suppose you have some super cool vimrc file that does millions of awesome things do you?21:24
mgedminwhy, how did you guess?21:25
eldarhehe, can you please share it with us?21:25
mgedminjust a sec, I'll check whether I have any passwords in it...21:27
ignasi am surrounded by vim users :(21:28
mgedminas it happens, I do!21:29
tvonalga: I'll work on that tonight21:34
pcardunemgedmin, don't worry, we'll keep it confidential21:34
mgedminplease tell me if you find any more confidentiall stuff in there ;-)21:36
algatvon: great, thanks21:38
eldarwow, it's pretty cool21:43
mgedminand crufty21:44
eldarmgedmin: btw, do you know how to define a host?21:46
eldarso i can go like: ssh maddog21:46
eldarand it'll take me some server with the defined alias21:46
mgedminHost youralias21:46
pcardune(this is awesome)21:47
mgedminUser yourusernameatthathost21:47
mgedminman ssh_config describes the syntax21:47
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pcardunehow do you move between open files in vim?22:17
gintaspcardune, ^ switches between two latest buffers22:19
gintas:b file.txt switches to the buffer that has file.txt open22:19
gintas(you can use the menu in gvim to switch buffers too)22:20
mgedmingintas, itym ctrl-^22:23
mgedminaka ctrl-622:23
gintasoh, right22:23
gintasI was thinking "right, ^ is 6 + some modifier, so that's what I want" ;)22:24
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eldarim back23:48
gintashi eldar, how's it going?23:50
pcardunewe are trying to use XMLDocument for parsing the html returned from an HTTP GET... but it keeps saying it is invalid xml23:52
eldargintas: hey, i'm good, you?23:53
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