IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2005-06-20

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srichtergood morning tom15:55
th1a'morning Stephan.15:55
th1aHow's it going?15:55
srichterI have started with persistent PDs this weekend15:56
srichterI should be able to make some first checkins this week15:56
srichteroh, process definition15:57
srichterso our first step is to create persistent process definitions15:58
srichterthen we need a UI to create custom PDs for the school WF15:58
srichterI think that part should be fairly straight forward15:58
th1aConsidering we aren't allowing branching or anything too fanciful.15:59
srichterwe said linear for now15:59
srichterwe can always generalize later16:00
th1aIf it becomes necessary, which I doubt.16:00
th1abskahan:  Did you get my email about the section calendars?16:01
th1asrichter:  I guess we have to determine exactly where you're going to check in to.16:02
th1aI guess the promotion work should be in a branch, because I don't want it in the 0.11 release.16:03
srichterI thought I do a branch16:03
srichtermost of the work I do should be very independent of the rest of the code16:03
th1aHow are you finding the SchoolTool code overall?16:04
srichterhonestly I have looked at very little, I was reading up on workflow stuff again16:05
srichterbut I should be able to tell you more next week :-)16:05
srichterI am pretty sure my questions will pop up during this week as I am going through the parts I need16:05
th1aOK.  Then how are you finding the wfmc code? ;-)16:06
srichterthat one looks pretty good to me16:07
srichterJim has developed a very good balance to provide a good Python API with high-level integration of other technologies16:07
srichterfor example,16:07
srichteron the one hand you can create everything by hand in a very pythonic ways (i.e. activities, actors, etc.) and on the other you can make high-levle calls (most important XPDL imports) that let you do things in bulk16:08
srichterthis makes it very easy to customize parts of the framework as you need it16:09
srichterthat said, I think I will have local PDs by the end of the week (now that the 3.1 b1 is not in my back anymore)16:09
bskahaneek, forgot the new meeting time16:10
bskahansorry about that16:10
bskahanth1a: yes, I got the mail16:10
srichter(btw, last week is the last week of teaching; after that I am not so concerned about the time anymore)16:10
th1abskahan:  No problem.  I'm sitting here in a K12LTSP workshop.16:11
bskahanin maine?16:11
th1aI gave a short talk on SchoolTool to some school admins last night.16:11
th1aYeah, in Maine.16:11
bskahanhi srichter16:11
th1aThey like the nice clean web design.16:11
srichterbskahan: good morning16:12
srichterth1a: where in Maine?16:12
th1aI am in Bethel, Maine.  At the Gould Academy.  The Northeast Linux Symposium.16:12
* bskahan wishes he could have made it16:13
th1aIt is a lot of hands on workshops.16:13
th1aYesterday's CMS workshop reminded me of how much hands-on workshops can be a pain.16:14
th1aEspecially when everyone is trying to install PHP web apps on different distros.16:14
srichteryeah, let's you appreciate Zope :-)16:15
th1aYeah, I was wishing I could jump in with the SchoolTool install.16:15
bskahanapparently that can be confusing too ...16:16
th1aI posted links to K12LTSP RPM's that Eric made on the website.16:16
th1aI think people find ways to make our install more complicated than it is.16:16
srichterwell, ST requires this XML stuff now that makes it a bit harder, since you need the right version16:16
th1aWe just need to try to get jelkner and his boys over the hump.16:17
srichterbut other than that its Python + Python-Dev + GCC + make and off you go16:17
th1asrichter:  I agree that the libxml requirement is a pain.16:17
bskahandid my mail with the build instructions go through?16:17
th1aYes, I think so.16:17
bskahanhaving 3.1 out will make life easier16:17
srichterth1a: Zope 3.2 will hopefully include lxml, at which point it is a Zope 3 requirement and much more experience will come into the installation16:18
srichteri.e. we will decide on a particular libxml2 version, etc16:18
bskahanwe should look at what it would take to move out libxml code to lxml16:18
th1alxml depends on libxml though, right?16:19
th1alxml will just make our code nicer and more Pythonic?16:20
bskahanit would remove our direct dependency on libxml216:21
srichteryeah, the dependence is the same16:21
srichterit will the code standard with other XML code based on Zope 316:21
srichterfor example, there will be a lxml-based XPDL parser for wfmc16:21
th1aSo a version of libxml will be packaged with Zope 3.2?16:21
bskahanour use of libxml2 is pretty low in the REST interface I think16:22
bskahanbut I don't know that code very well, so I could be wrong16:22
srichternot in th esource distro, but the linux distribution packages will ensure correct dependencies16:22
srichterso once Zope 3.2 will ship with a distribution, the correct libxml will be installed and ST does not have to worry about this anymore16:23
bskahanth1a: we wouldn't need seperate libxml2-python bindings for mac16:23
srichteralso, I expect there wo be much more know-how in the Zope 3 core team on how to work with this nicely16:23
srichterwhich means ST does not have to worry about supporting this part16:24
th1aI'd be happy if someone with some Windows know-how would get Zope 3 running as a service.16:25
th1a'Maddog' Hall told me about this yesterday:
srichterth1a: the Windows binary will do that16:26
srichterth1a: Jim has recently worked on that16:26
th1aIt is a Brazilian open source admin system.16:26
th1asrichter:  Which Windows binary?16:26
th1aFor 3.0?16:27
bskahanth1a: that's pretty interesting16:27
th1aMost interesting thing I've seen in a while, I'm downloading it now.16:27
th1aOh, also some people here are using Centre, which is another open source SIS.16:27
bskahanmy portugese is weak though16:27
th1aActually, there are lots of Portugese in Providence.16:28
th1aI don't speak it.  I'll have to hire a kid.16:28
srichteryep, there was an interesting article about immigrants in MA in the Globe yesterday16:28
srichterBrazilians are by far the largest immigrant population now16:29
bskahanth1a: how do you want section calendar overlay to work?16:29
bskahanthe same way other overlay work, just adding a 4th section the the overlay choice page?16:30
th1aIt could, but I don't know that it should be a choice.16:30
bskahans/the the/to the/16:30
bskahanme either, that's why I asked16:31
bskahanwant the alway in the portlet?16:31
bskahanman, my typing is worse than usual today16:31
REdOGany plan to add ldap user/group support to schoolbell?16:32
th1a"Oh, I had homework?  My calendar is broken, see.  I can't see the assigment?  Oh, that's what the "More..." button does."16:32
bskahanth1a: good point16:32
th1aREdOG:  Probably just for authentication.16:32
REdOGI think that is all I would need.16:33
th1aIt seems like it would get pretty complicated otherwise.16:33
th1asrichter:  What's the state of LDAP auth in Zope 3?16:33
srichterREdOG: I recently fixed ldapadapter and ldapauth, so you can use that16:33
srichterth1a: I just fixed this16:34
bskahanth1a: are we going to port the person-info schema work forward? it got lost in the move to Z316:34
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th1abskahan:  We will do that soon.16:34
bskahansomeone (maybe REdOG) was asking about it16:34
th1aI want to talk about whether it makes sense to do that more as a ZCML thing than storing the schemas in the ZODB.16:35
srichterstoring interfaces is broken in the current trunk16:36
srichterand release16:36
srichterJim knows about the issue16:36
srichterbut did not have time to fix it yet16:36
srichterFlorent expressed interest in fixing it too; they need it as well16:36
th1asrichter: Storing interfaces in the ZODB is broken?16:37
srichtersince a long time16:37
srichterat least 1 year16:37
th1aSagu seems to be php and Java.  Ug.16:38
srichterbut storing interfaces in the ZODB is a cool feature that can be very powerful16:38
srichteryour use case is a good example16:38
srichtergeneric property sheets and TTW schema-based content components another16:39
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bskahanI have to run, trying to get my passport at the last minute16:40
th1abskahan:  Good luck.16:40
bskahanth1a: We'll write up that other story ond send it to you tonight/tomorrow morning16:40
th1aI once had a temp job doing data entry on those things.16:40
th1aOn the graveyard shift.16:40
th1aFor procrastinators like you.16:40
bskahangetting it is turning out to be a huge pain16:41
bskahanI've been trying for 3 weeks, in my defense16:41
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th1agintas:  How are things in Vilnius?16:42
gintasI'm not entirely sure16:49
gintasI'm not in the office at the moment16:49
gintaswe had to work on Saturday so everybody took a day off today16:49
gintasI forgot the meeting altogether ;(16:50
gintaswas mgedmin or alga here?16:50
th1aNo, but it isn't a big deal.16:50
th1aI'm multitasking at a conference.16:50
th1aThere is nothing pressing to cover.16:51
th1aGot a little update from srichter.16:51
th1aI've got to go get some breakfast and cold medicine.  Talk to you guys later.16:54
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srichterok, I gotta go to school too17:00
gintasgood luck17:10
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Aisteth1a: hi, ayt?18:39
th1aI am.18:39
AisteI think I just got a breakthrough for ST in Lithuania :)18:40
Aistemet some people today who have friends in high ranking places18:40
Aistethey will recommend that ST would be used in lt schools18:40
th1aIf it would be helpful for me to meet anyone while I'm in Vilnius, I'd be happy to.18:41
AisteI have already spoken to one teacher who is responsible for timetables and such in one of the schools -- they sound very enthusiastic18:41
Aisteoh, right, i have forgotten that :)18:41
Aistethis would be  great in fact18:41
AisteI need to write a short doc on what shooltool can do now to show it to people18:42
AisteI guess I will need to translate your helpful docs about using schooltool as well18:42
_jeremyI just spoke with the District Manager of a school system here in Maine, USA.  He had some suggestions for development of modules.18:43
th1aAiste:  Do you have Keynote?18:44
th1a_jeremy:  I'm in Bethel, Maine right now.18:44
Aisteth1a: what is keynote?18:44
_jeremyHa! :)  You must be up at Goulde?18:44
th1aThat's Apple's presentation software.  That's what I used to create those PDF's.18:44
th1a_jeremy:  Yes.18:44
Aisteah, no I think I do not18:45
_jeremyth1a: I just spoke with Dave Murphy18:45
AisteI will find something to use though :)18:45
th1aAiste:  Let me know what you need.18:45
_jeremyI'm trying to get some alignment from MSAD44 with SchoolTool, hopefully some $$ backing18:45
Aisteok, thanks18:45
th1aWho is Dave Murphy?18:46
AisteI was quite excited when these people started talking about pushing ST on government level :)18:46
_jeremyth1a: District Manager for MSAD4418:46
th1aAiste:  I'm confident that if we don't screw things up, we could have hundreds or thousands of SchoolTool installations in Spain in 3-5 years.18:47
th1a_jeremy:  If you start to make some progress and you want me to get involved in some way let me know.18:47
Aisteth1a: good, that would wncouradge lithuanians to join in18:47
_jeremyth1a: Thank you.  I am trying to get the Schools collaborate and commit $$ to development of features they want.18:48
th1a_jeremy:  That's the idea.18:48
th1aWhere is MSAD44?18:48
_jeremyif your in Bethel, your in it :)  You could walk down the street and see Dave Murphy18:49
th1aHe's not at the symposium though?18:49
_jeremyth1a:  Are you a developer with SchoolTool?  How are you involved?18:49
th1aI am the project manager.18:49
_jeremyNo, Peter Kuzik ia at Goulde, he is the Tech guy for MSAD4418:50
_jeremyth1a:  Would you like to meet up?  I can drive into Bethel now18:50
th1aI haven't done much significant development on SchoolTool, but I've done similar things for the school I used to work at in Providence.18:50
th1a_jeremy:  That would be great.18:51
_jeremyOk, pick a time :)18:51
th1aI'm hanging around the sessions, but just browsing.18:51
th1aSo whenever... 2:00?18:51
th1aI'll be here tomorrow as well.18:52
th1aI've already done my little talk so I don't have any obligations.18:52
th1aActually, let me check when the keynote is this afternoon...18:52
_jeremyOk, my e-mail is jeremy@deximer.com18:53
_jeremyLet me know if 2pm is not going to work for you18:53
_jeremyMaybe I can get you a meeting with Dave Murphy tomorrow if you want to help pitch ST18:54
Aisteok, got to run -- my horse is waiting :)18:54
th1aAiste:  Bye.  That's good news!18:54
Aiste:) I thought so as well18:54
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th1aOK.  The keynote is at 4:00.  So 1:30 or 2:00 is good.18:55
th1aAnd if Dave Murphy is interested I'd be happy to talk to him.18:55
_jeremyOk, I'll be at the event at 2, see you then.  I'll try and set up a meeting as well.18:55
th1aWhere should we meet?18:56
_jeremyIs there a registration area at the event?18:57
th1aRight inside McLaughlin Hall.18:58
_jeremyOk, I'll be there looking like I'm looking for someone18:58
th1aOK.  I'll be there looking like I'm waiting for someone.18:58
th1aWearing a nametag with my name on it.18:58
th1aTom Hoffman, btw.18:58
_jeremyOk, I'm in black with srmy green T-shirt18:59
th1aI've got a blue hoodie and jeans.18:59
_jeremyI'm calling Dave Murphy's office now, I'll fill you in when we meet...18:59
th1aOK.  Time for lunch here.  See you in a few.19:00
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bskahanthe beginnings of a task list, theoretically to turn into user test cases20:27
bskahanin the process it occured to me that new section should automagically get the current_term.default_tts timetable20:28
th1aWhat happens now?20:37
th1aYes, you're right.  We need these test cases written down.  Right now they're only in my head.20:39
bskahanignore the second part of that, there's no way to automate it20:43
bskahanI'd add that doc to the schooltool server, but the server doesn't know ReST and I don't know Structured Text20:44
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