IRC log of #schooltool for Friday, 2005-05-27

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jelknerquestion:  is their a developer here interested in mentoring a very bright student who is about to graduate from high school?00:24
jelkner(shoud be "is there" ;-)00:24
jelkneri'm hoping to have him work on schooltool00:25
jelkneri'm looking for someone who could give him a task to do, and then evaluate his code when he submits it.00:25
th1aHi Jeff.00:26
jelknerhi tom00:26
th1aMaybe we can share the load.00:26
jelknerthat would be fine00:26
jelknerbut it would be nice to start out to have one contact00:26
th1aWe already kick a little extra to POV to review checkins.00:26
tvonmarius likes evaluating peoples commits :)00:26
th1aHe's a machine.00:26
th1aYou should see him do it.00:27
th1aProgrammers of Vilnius.00:27
jelkner(jeff: looking up Programmers of Vilnius...)00:27
th1aThey've done most of the coding on SchoolTool, most of the back end Zope 3 work.00:28
th1aAnyhow, I should probably take care of managing the relationship overall.00:29
jelknerthe student in question is named paul carduner00:29
jelknerhe is *very* bright (a lot smarter than me) and it is time for him to work with folks who can help him develop further00:30
jelknerhe wrote the current version of CanDo00:30
jelknerand he will be writing the new version this summer00:30
jelknerbut first, i wanted to get him contributing in some way directly to schooltool00:31
th1aMarius has taught programming at the university in Vilnius, by the way.00:31
jelknerwith the following goals:00:31
jelkner1. he would learn how things are done in schooltool, so cando can be as consistent with that as possible.00:32
jelkner2. he would establish a relationship with folks to whom he could ask questions as cando work proceeds00:32
jelkner3. he would contribute to schooltool00:32
jelknerthla: tom, i want to send an email to him and whomever would be his primary contact with the project00:33
jelknerso that he could be given an appropriate size thing to work on00:33
jelknershould that be you?00:34
th1aYeah.  I'll be the primary contact.00:34
jelknerpaul is away for 5 days in italy, but i'll send the email today, and you'll here back from him in 5 days.00:35
th1aOK.  I'll think about things for him to do.00:36
jelknerOK, another, more long term question...00:38
jelknerlet's just say i was able to convince the powers that be in my school system that schooltool is the thing they should be using for their administration needs.00:39
jelkner1. is there a commercial company from which they can purchase support?00:40
jelkner2. when will schooltool be ready for this?00:40
th1a1.  Not yet, although Etria isn't too far from you...00:40
tvonjelkner: where are you?00:40
jelknerArlington, VA00:41
th1a2.  We'll have a basic SIS ready next spring -- essentially a PowerSchool replacement.00:41
tvonbskahan and I00:41
tvonjelkner: I'm in Baltimore MD00:41
tvonjelkner: Brian is in New York00:41
jelknerawesome, that's close00:41
th1atvon:  Is Brian is New York for a while?00:42
tvonth1a: yes00:42
jelknerok, thanks00:42
th1aJeez, I'm out of the loop.00:42
th1atvon:  I guess your cats are happier.00:42
th1ajelkner:  Keep in mind that you should be able to use SchoolTool in conjunction with your existing system.00:43
th1aWhat do you have now for a SIS?00:44
jelknerit is something that runs on top of novell00:48
jelknerwe use easy grade pro for the gradebook program00:49
jelknerour system paid the easy grade pro developers to customize it for our system00:49
th1aDoes your current system work pretty well?00:51
jelknernot from my point of view, mainly because it requires windoz00:52
th1aIt isn't web based?00:52
th1aDo you have anything for shared calendars?00:53
jelkneri would have to look into it00:53
jelknerwe might, but not that i'm aware of00:53
th1aI suppose Pentamation doesn't do what you need CanDo to do?00:53
jelknerdefinitely not00:54
th1aPerhaps the first thing Paul should do is try to figure out how to get data from Penamation into SchoolTool.00:54
tvonth1a: heh, his one cat is still here so my two cats are still locked up (else they will terrorize her)00:55
th1atvon:  That's not a very good deal for your cats.00:55
jelknerthla: i would freak folks out if i started asking to many questions about pentimation data formats00:56
tvonth1a: no, I lock up his cat on occasion but they just sit outside of the door to her room and hiss at her00:56
jelknerbetter that paul just does something you need done00:56
jelknerCanDo is going to be our ticket00:56
th1ajelkner:  OK, stealth mode it is.00:56
jelknerwe are doing something that people will in the state will love (they have already been wowed by what they saw already)00:57
jelknerand which nothing else available can do (pun intended ;-)00:57
th1aOK.  In terms of using SchoolTool locally I'd say as we go just pick up things that it does that your systems don't do now.00:58
th1aGet that foot in the door, get people comfortable with it...00:58
th1aBut I wouldn't rush to replace something people are basically satisfied with.00:59
jelkneri agree00:59
jelknerbut i'm hoping down the road to replace something most people are *not* satisfied with: windows 200001:00
th1aOf course.01:00
jelkneranyway, email just sent01:00
jelknerhow does it look?01:01
th1aFine.  I am more of a manager than developer on this project, and POV will do the actual code reviews.01:02
th1aThey do this anyhow.01:03
th1aThey're very picky, so you learn proper style.01:03
jelknerpaul is a great guy, and he learns very quickly01:03
jelknerthey will be happy with him and it will be worth their efforts01:04
jelkneri need to run (my son has a concert this evening)...01:04
jelknertalk to you later.01:04
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th1aIn other SchoolTool news, we got the thumbs up from Mark for srichter's proposal, so he's going to start working part time on SchoolTool next week.01:05
tvonthats great01:08
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bskahanth1a: how did you turn that presentation into a swf file?04:05
th1aKeynote does it itself (poorly).04:15
bskahanah, thanks04:16
bskahanjust watched the movie version04:17
bskahanit ran fine on ubuntu with some 3rd party xine package04:17
bskahanits too fast to read though04:17
th1aThat's interesting.04:17
th1aIt is interactive on the Mac.04:17
bskahanin quicktime?04:18
th1aIn Safari -- it may be handled by Quicktime in some sense.04:18
th1aYou're talking about the Quicktime.04:18
th1aI just woke up from a nap.04:19
th1aDid you try the flash?04:19
th1aDid you see that Stephan is going to start working with us next week?04:20
bskahanno, where was that mentioned?04:20
bskahanI had assumed he would though ;)04:20
bskahanhadn't tried the flash because I didn't think swf was supported04:21
bskahantrying it now04:21
bskahanoriginally thought I could only see the pdf04:21
th1aI haven't sent out an email about Stephan yet, just got the green light from Mark this afternoon & mentioned it on IRC.04:22
th1aSo are you in NYC for the long haul?04:22
bskahanYes, fiancee is here04:22
bskahanmoving up here permanently at the end of summer04:23
th1aAh... is that new?04:23
bskahanyes ;)04:23
bskahanthe flash file does work in firefox04:24
bskahanI should have more confidence in ubuntu04:24
th1aThe text isn't centered in the boxes, right?  It is aligned at the top?04:24
th1aThat's the only real problem,  but it would be annoying to fix at this point.04:25
bskahanthe scaling on the screenshots is questionable04:25
bskahanthe font in the browser window is chunky04:26
bskahanso far the PDF has seemed the most polished04:26
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bskahanwent to an educational website focus group at NYU last nite04:31
bskahanwas pretty interesting04:31
bskahan6 teachers reviewing a new document collection website project04:32
th1aFocus group?04:32
th1aWhat did you learn?04:32
bskahanthat we need to do that ;)04:32
th1aIs your fiancee a teacher?04:32
bskahanyes, social sience04:32
th1aWhat level?04:33
bskahanUS History, Global, and Politics04:33
bskahan10/11 th grade primarily04:33
th1aWhat school?04:33
bskahanBrooklyn School for Music and Theatre, one of the new small schools04:34
bskahannot a huge amount of the feedback from the focus group was directly relevant04:35
bskahansome things that I suspect will be though04:35
th1aWhat kind of documents?04:35
bskahanfocus on searching vs. browsing04:35
bskahaninterest in metadata (though none of them used that word)04:36
bskahancontext linking (lots of "related links")04:37
bskahanthose were the 3 things that seemed to have some applicability for us04:37
bskahanbut I'd really like to see what sort of reaction we would get from a similar group04:37
th1aWell, we're about ready for that.04:40
* bskahan agrees04:41
bskahanI'm out for the night, talk to you tomorrow04:43
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povbot`/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 3947:10:00
povbot`/svn/commits: REST GET/PUT for notes10:00
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povbot`/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 3948:14:01
povbot`/svn/commits: Resurrected the RESTive client.14:01
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povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 3949:14:56
povbot`/svn/commits: Improvements to to make it suitable to run from a cron job.14:56
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povbot`/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 3950:16:45
povbot`/svn/commits: A fix for Issue243.16:45
povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3951:16:49
povbot`/svn/commits: Typos.16:49
povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3952:16:50
povbot`/svn/commits: More typos.16:50
povbot`/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 3953:16:52
povbot`/svn/commits: ouch16:52
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povbot`/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 3954:17:07
povbot`/svn/commits: Fixed a small bug.17:07
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povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3955:17:51
povbot`/svn/commits: Added a next-generation CSV parser.  It is not yet hooked up to the view and the old components are still there, but they will be removed soon.17:52
bskahantrying to test the length of a RelationshipProperty in view code I get a forbidden attribute on __len__18:21
bskahanI can think of a few ways around it, but what would be the correct way?18:21
bskahanI'm trying to test a section to see how many courses its related to before it gets deleted18:21
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ignasbskahan, why didn't you make courses as containers for sections ? that would have made some stuff a lot easier ...18:31
ignaslike - garbage collection of sections and stuff18:33
bskahanignas: I agree18:34
bskahanbut we needed to support corner cases where sections might be part of more than one course18:34
bskahanmy highschool actually had 1 course like that when I was a student and now has 3 or 418:35
ignasouch, so deleting sections will be kind ofdifficult18:35
bskahanyeah, that's why I need to check to see if the section is just part of a single course18:35
bskahanI have a sebclass of ContainerDeleteView that half fixes the bug in doctests but runs into the error in real life18:36
bskahancurrently I'm just ignoring sections that are in multiple courses18:37
bskahanthey'll get deleted when the last course they're part of gets deleted18:37
ignasbskahan, well i would just save the section in  a variable, kill relationship, check whether there are any relationships left if not - kill section ...18:37
ignaswhat problems might be there ?18:38
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bskahanI'll try it that way, not sure if I'll run into restricted attributes on the links18:39
ignasexcept for a functional test of course, yet it can be easily done by mixing REST with web interface, or even by redoing the __del__ of the CourseContainer which would make it easy to test, because only RESTive tests would be enough18:39
ignaswe want it working in all views not just browser views so adding functionality to the container would be nicer ...18:40
bskahandamn, I was almost done ;)18:40
bskahanthanks for pointing that out though18:41
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povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3956:19:42
povbot`/svn/commits: Added an XXX.19:42
povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3957:19:47
povbot`/svn/commits: Fixed some t0t4l b0rk3dn3ss.19:47
povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3958:19:55
povbot`/svn/commits: Removed redundant line.19:55
th1abskahan:  I'm just catching up to the deleting sections/courses issue.19:59
th1aIs that what you're working on now?19:59
th1aOh... you aren't here.19:59
th1a...mail set.20:08
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povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 3959:21:03
povbot`/svn/commits: Pass the right options to tar, fixes issue17021:03
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