IRC log of #schooltool for Monday, 2005-05-23

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tvonCan data fora widget be validated before setting the value?07:02
tvoneg, ISomeForm.some_widget.valudate(potentail_value)07:02
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povbot`/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 3898:08:45
povbot`/svn/commits: REST views for PersonPreferences.08:45
povbot`/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 3899:08:59
povbot`/svn/commits: moving importer_class out of __init__08:59
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povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 3900:12:05
povbot`/svn/commits: Close #310304 on next upload.12:05
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povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3901:13:40
povbot`/svn/commits: Removed unused import.13:40
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SteveAhello schooltool people14:09
SteveAi spoke to james the canonical sysadmin today14:09
SteveAhe promised to get the schooltool account sorted today14:09
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bskahanSteveA: thanks14:19
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povbot`/svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 3902:14:35
povbot`/svn/commits: make the section container view use the section label instead of title.14:35
povbot`/svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 3903:15:11
povbot`/svn/commits: display section/size in the section index.15:11
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povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3904:15:19
povbot`/svn/commits: Beautified the timetable CSV import a little.  It now resembles the other CSV import views more.  Thanks Etria for the neater design.15:20
povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 3905:15:38
povbot`/svn/commits: Fix indentation (bad me!)15:38
povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 3906:15:40
povbot`/svn/commits: Missed some indentation fixups in the previous checkin.15:40
povbot`/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 3907:15:54
povbot`/svn/commits: Replace period with therm where it is refering to Terms.15:54
bskahanshould a user be able to access their own schedule?16:00
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bskahanis there any need for regular users to access /app/ttschemas or /app/terms16:09
bskahanby regular user, I mean a non-manager, which at this point I would suspect is limited to teachers and non-technical administrators16:09
bskahanRFC: when a user is added to a section, the section should automagically be added to their overlay portlet16:14
* mgedmin hmms16:16
mgedmindoes the overlay show composite timetables or regular timetables?16:17
mgedminotoh I forgot regular calendar events16:18
mgedminyes, I think that's a good idea16:18
* bskahan agrees16:18
bskahanadding it now16:18
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bskahanzope's error reporting URL moved, that was a little annoying16:48
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elmomgedmin: around?17:26
mgedminelmo, yes17:26
th1abskahan:  The user should be able to explicitly set the ID of a course, e.g., 'CS101'17:26
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bskahanth1a: they can17:29
th1aOh... yeah.17:29
th1aOh, I see the problem.17:30
th1aIt doesn't appear to be supported by the CSV import.17:30
bskahanno, probably not17:31
bskahanshould all CSV importers be able to set ids?17:32
th1aThat's pretty important for persons and courses.17:32
th1aIf it isn't too much trouble it is probably best to be consistent.17:32
bskahanit works with persons because of usernames being the ids17:34
th1aOh, right.17:34
th1aIt needs to work for courses, the others aren't a big deal.17:35
* bskahan nods17:36
povbot`/svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 3908:17:36
povbot`/svn/commits: added subscribers for relationship events to add/remove a section's calendar to instructors overlaid_calendars (portlet).17:36
mgedminbskahan, you forgot the unit test17:40
mgedminok, there's a functional test, but still17:40
elmomgedmin/th1a: stevea sent me over here, to talk about your (long overdue) server @ canonical.  who wants an account on the machine?  not to do sysadmin (I'll do that), but to manage your software?17:41
* mgedmin will talk to bskahan in 5 minutes17:41
th1aelmo:  bskahan, tvon & th1a.17:42
th1aI don't think mgedmin wants to mess with the site any more ;-)17:42
elmoth1a: ... ok.  can you guys send me (, a) what account name you want, b) an ssh public key?17:43
* mgedmin just doesn't have the time17:43
th1amgedmin:  I'd rather have you writing code.17:43
th1aelmo:  OK.17:44
bskahanelmo: ok17:45
mgedminbskahan, see my reply to your checkin of rev 390817:49
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th1aelmo:  We need to run a Plone site, btw.17:50
elmoth1a: yay17:50
th1aI thought that would make you happy.17:51
bskahanmgedmin: sorry about that, I was actually allready writing a doctest with some heavy stubs17:51
th1aGood morning/evening folks.  Time for the weekly developer meeting.18:01
* mgedmin is here18:01
gintashi th1a18:02
th1aSo where do we stand with SchoolTool?18:02
mgedminall stories are done, some need minor fixes18:03
mgedminmy list of outstanding issues:18:04
mgedmin- if there are no terms/ttschemas defined, person scheduling view is likely to barf18:04
mgedmin- when you delete terms/ttschemas, existing timetables that are based on those terms/schemas may break18:04
mgedminthat's about it, for important things18:05
mgedminI'd like to refactor the implementation of read-only calendar events somewhat18:05
mgedminmake sure timetable schemas have titles and identifiers, just like terms18:05
mgedminmake sure timetable schema index looks like the rest of schooltool's indexes18:06
mgedminmake sure the front page doesn't say "schoolbell" when it's actually schooltool (I think this is in Etria's corner)18:06
bskahanmgedmin: what would you like changed in read-only events?18:06
* bskahan nods18:07
gintasthey're currently not implemented in a clean way18:07
mgedminbskahan, currently the page template checks for event/__parent__; I'd like to introduce an explicit "readonly" attribute in the transient EventForDisplay class and then make page templates check that instead18:07
mgedminoh, one more thing: currently there are HTML views for individual timetables18:07
mgedminbut no views for individual _composite_ timetables18:07
bskahanI'll take a look18:08
mgedminyou do see composite timetables when you check the overlay checkboxes in calendar views18:08
mgedminso that's not too big of a problem18:08
th1aYeah, I was kind of confused about the lack of a _composite_ timetable.18:08
mgedminalso, I have a huge number of unread checkins in my inbox18:08
mgedmin(for example, I still don't know how all-day events were implemented)18:08
* mgedmin over18:09
th1aSo, basically right now you can "manually" create a composite timetable by checking all the appropriate timetable boxes.18:09
algayou can see people's composite timetables by overlaying then on your calendar18:10
mgedminlet me give you a specific example18:10
mgedminI import a school's timetable that says18:10
mgedminon mondays, 9 am, teacher T has section S in room R18:10
mgedminwhen you go to calendar views, you will see the event in all three timetables (T's, S's, and R's)18:10
gintasth1a, by the way, is it acceptable to have timetables viewable by everyone? Right now, in practice, calendar read permission is equivalent to the composite timetable read permission.18:11
mgedminwhen you go to S's page, click on "View Timetables", you'll see the activity in S's timetable view18:11
povbot`/svn/commits: * tvon committed revision 3909:18:11
povbot`/svn/commits: Whoops. Removing the pointless __init__ def18:11
mgedminwhen you go to T's or R's page, click on "View Timetables", you'll see no timetable18:11
th1agintas:  Same permission for calendar and timetable viewing is ok.18:11
mgedminthat's because the activity sits in S's timetable, and is automatically included in T's and R's *composite* timetables18:11
mgedmincomposite timetables are included in calendar views18:12
mgedmincomposite timetables do not have standalone timetable HTML views18:12
mgedmindid I make everything murkier?18:13
* mgedmin hopes not18:13
* bskahan is pretty murky on thml based timetables18:13
th1aWell, I'm confused right now because I don't know how to assign sections to periods.18:13
th1aSo I can't see a real schedule.18:13
* mgedmin wondered if that was some sort of ttml-related xml-based timetable representation18:13
mgedminth1a, you have to use the timetable import18:14
th1aWhere is that?18:14
mgedmintimetable CSV import; you can find it in the Actions menu of the root page18:14
mgedminclick on "top" in the breadcrumbs18:14
* mgedmin wishes that view had a textarea for typing things in directly; like other CSV import pages18:15
th1abskahan:  I'd like to assign a section to a period from the section's page.18:15
th1aI'm not sure if that was covered in the proposal.18:16
bskahanthat's a sticky CSV import / Section integration,  the timetable CSV import uses section titles, which are non-informative (Section, Section 1, ..., Section N)18:16
bskahan^side note18:16
mgedminbskahan, no it doesn't18:16
mgedminI mean, I just typed course titles there18:16
bskahanmgedmin: how does it find a section?18:16
mgedminand it created new sections for me automatically18:16
mgedminperhaps you *can* specify section names also18:16
bskahanthat's nice ;)18:17
bskahanth1a: I think that's a good idea18:17
bskahanmgedmin: oops, I was thinking of roster.txt import18:17
th1aYeah, I the assumption should be that if you're using the CSV import on timetable.csv, you're creating the sections at that point.18:18
bskahanis there a reason to have timetable.csv and roster.txt together?18:18
th1aBut I agree with bskahan, that the rosters should use id's and not titles.18:18
th1ath1a: and also, splitting it into two steps probably is a good idea.18:19
bskahanth1a: that's not really what I meant, I think sections need a better unique ID than they have now, I'm just not sure what it should be18:19
th1aI've thought about it for a while, and I haven't come up with anything.18:19
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th1aAnyhow, I meant to give that import page a little more attention as we were going along to help clear up some of the ambiguity.18:21
th1aUnfortunately, I lost track of it along the way.18:21
bskahanI think the system as a whole will be confusing for new admins to set up18:22
th1aWell... it is inherently complicated.18:22
bskahanone thing that we need is a "Do this, then this, then this"18:22
th1abskahan:  Yes.18:23
bskahanI started doing that and got distracted18:23
algacan we go on with the status?18:24
th1aalga:  Please.18:24
algawe are done with our status18:24
tvonPreferences REST went in last night18:24
bskahanour outstanding issues are RESTive creation of instruction relationships18:24
algathat was a sucker btw18:25
algawe might have used it in ftests but it wasnt there18:25
algarest for instruction rel18:25
algaignas can explain what to do after the meeting18:26
algathat is easy18:26
mgedminregarding preferences18:26
mgedminIIRC, what I saw was a RESTive view for SchoolBell preferences18:26
* bskahan nods18:26
mgedminSchoolTool has one additional preference18:26
mgedminI forgot what it is18:26
bskahanthey're different than ST18:26
mgedmin(gintas added it a while ago)18:26
gintasshow calendar by period18:27
th1aAnything else?18:30
mgedminno -- if you're still talking about ST preferences18:30
mgedminI don't know whether it's important for that setting to be changeable via REST18:30
mgedminI just thought I should mention it18:31
mgedmincan we go on with the status report?18:31
th1aI think so... things just fell dead there for a few minutes.18:31
gintasth1a, there's one more outstanding issue with the UI of overlay calendars18:32
th1agintas:  Go ahead.18:32
gintascurrently the overlay portlet is completely hidden when you are viewing another person's calendar18:32
gintaswhich means that you can't see the person's timetable overlaid on the calendar18:32
th1aWhen you are viewing their calendar directly?18:32
gintaswhen traverse into /persons/not_me/calendar18:33
gintasI can make it overlay the timetable by default18:33
mgedminmaybe the timetable should be unconditionally shown then?18:33
th1aI don't think that's a big deal... I guess in the ideal case when you viewed someone else's calendar directly you'd see their timetable too by default.18:33
th1amgedmin:  Yes.18:34
gintasshould I use a different color for the timetable events then?18:34
gintasthat would be nicer, but break consistency somewhat18:34
gintaswhen viewing your own calendar, your timetable events are colored the same as ordinary events, same for events coming from other timetables18:35
bskahanmgedmin: I'll add the schooltool versions on the preferences view today18:35
* mgedmin thinks about a little icon in the corner, indicating that this is a timetable event18:35
th1agintas:  Be consistent.18:35
gintasI mean other people's timetables/calendars18:35
* mgedmin thinks that icon could be clicked to go to a timetable view18:35
th1amgedmin:  Good idea.18:35
* mgedmin thinks /me thinks too much, and this nicety can be postponed to the next release18:35
th1amgedmin:  yes.18:36
th1aSo... back to Etria?18:36
tvonREST preferences got in late, will/should they be backported to the RC branch?18:37
bskahanth1a: the restive preferences for SB missed the release deadline, if they can be applied to the RC branch, I'll add the Schooltool versions as well18:37
jintythi souns suspiciously like a missing feature18:38
th1aI'll defer to jinty on that...  if bits of the REST interface are pushed back, I don't see any immediate practical problem.18:38
* bskahan agrees18:38
* tvon nods18:39
th1aIt isn't like someone else is writing a custom GUI using the REST interface as we speak.18:39
algajinty: we have a component architecture18:39
algathrowing in extra views can hardly break anything18:39
jintyI work by heuristics,18:39
algabut it is a missing feature18:39
jintythrowing in new features in a RC means programmes spend more time on new features, and less on fixing bugs18:40
jintythen why do we even bother with an RC?18:41
* jinty just likes being mean;)18:42
th1aIn this case, there isn't much downside to putting it off.18:42
tvonyeah, nothings using it18:42
tvonunless there is some secret project going on that we don't know about18:42
th1aOn the other hand, I'm now really worried about the state of the Import Timetables page, but I have a fairly straightforward solution in mind.18:42
mgedminbesides, I think all of the preferences influence browser views only; so they're kinda pointless for the RESTive API18:42
mgedminth1a, gintas made the timetable import page pretty this morning18:43
gintasbut I added some docs as well18:43
mgedminor are you worried about usability18:43
gintasone might find the page a bit too daunting18:43
th1aHm... ok.  Not sure if I have the current one.18:43
bskahangintas: can we split the roster import into a seperate page?18:43
th1aAnyhow, here's what I'm thinking:18:43
gintasyeah, I was thinking something along those lines too18:44
th1aAdmin imports timetable.csv,18:44
th1aand then downloads a csv template for roster.txt that has all the right id's for the classes he just created.18:44
mgedminI like that18:44
th1aThen pastes or otherwise enters the roster into that and uploads it.18:45
mgedminan empty template for the timetable would also be good18:45
th1amgedmin:  good point.18:45
th1aI think that it is pretty crucial that we get this page right, because everything else is pretty pointless if you can't get your timetables into the system.18:45
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th1aIf we need to add a day or two to one of your contracts to straighten this out, then we need to do that.18:46
bskahanhi erchache18:47
th1aerchache:  Hi.  We're having our weekly meeting.18:47
th1aI should have been more proactive about making this page work correctly.18:47
th1aerchache:  You're welcome to stay.18:48
th1aPOV or Etria could handle it... preferences?18:49
th1aOtherwise I could probably do it myself.18:50
gintasth1a, I could do it if you don't need it by tomorrow18:50
th1aWhen do you think you could have it done?18:50
bskahanI'm in the same boat, could do it wednesday18:51
gintasThursday at the latest18:51
gintasbut most probably I would manage to do it on Wednesday18:51
th1agintas:  You've been working on it so far, so it is yours if you want it.18:51
th1ajinty:  Please don't kill me.18:52
erchachea little question: when are freez 1.1? 30 or 31 of this month?18:52
algath1a: ok, we'll add these two days to our next contract18:52
th1aSchoolBell 1.1 will be released on the 31st.18:53
th1aalga:  OK.18:53
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th1agintas:  I'll write up more specific instructions this afternoon.18:53
tvon|x31damn neighbors wifi18:53
gintasth1a, I think I got the idea18:53
jintyth1a: perhaps we could delay the SchoolTool release a week?18:54
jintyth1a: I would prefer to keep a little testing time and move the release back.18:54
gintasseparate the imports into two pages, add downloadable templates, clean up a bit perhaps18:54
erchachei want to translate install docs and include on tarball18:54
th1aerchache:  Please do.18:55
jintyThey would have to be committed to the repository.18:57
jintyerchache: which install docs?18:57
th1aerchache:  Perhaps we should make you an official contributor.18:57
th1ajinty:  I'm trying to figure out the best way to handle this slight delay.18:58
povbot`/svn/commits: * jinty committed revision 3910:18:58
povbot`/svn/commits: Back port 3900, 3865, 3889, 3880 to the RC18:58
th1aWe could just release SB 1.1 and ST 1.0rc1 on the 31st as if that was our plan all along.18:58
bskahanth1a: what about a quick  0.11 release at the end of june18:58
jintyheh, just whistle, and look elsewhere...18:58
th1aBut I would like to have .debs available.18:59
bskahanrather than delaying this one18:59
jintyth1a: for a schooltool rc?18:59
th1ajinty:  yes.18:59
erchacheofficial contributor? well18:59
th1aerchache:  You have to sign your soul over to us first.19:00
jintyth1a: available just on the website, or from ubuntu/debian repositories as well?19:00
th1aI guess by the time they'd actually filter into the upstream repositories, they'd be nearly obselete.19:00
bskahanI think we have some bigger usability issues going on that could use help before people start loading data in August, specifically dealing with large data sets19:00
th1abskahan:  There's definitely going to need to be one more major revision, that will include handling larger data sets, generating pdf's and a number of other issues.19:01
th1aBut I think it will be more of a late July release.19:02
erchachesend me doc files before freez 1.1 and i translate it19:02
jintyth1a: Originally I was doing that, but stopped because it wasn't woth all that much. and makes work for others.19:02
erchacheinto spanish19:02
* th1a bangs the virtual gavel.19:02
erchachebecause i want to use when all internacionalization starts19:02
th1aHow long does it take for the package to get upstream?19:03
bskahanignas: friday you said I was missing ZCML declarations to get instruction relationships working19:03
povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3911:19:03
povbot`/svn/commits: Some clarifications with regard to security.  This doesn't really change the current behaviour.19:03
ignasbskahan, yep19:03
ignasno utilities what so ever19:03
bskahanI'm getting a "Bad URI" error", that's a handled ComponentLookup exception19:04
th1ajinty:  Let's call it ST 0.10rc1, but treat it as a regular release and send .debs upstream, although we usually won't do that for rc's.19:04
jintyth1a: about 1-2 days for Debian, then Ubuntu is about 1 more day (more if I have to nudge the ubuntu guys)19:04
ignaslook at SchoolBell/configure.zcml utilities19:05
jintyth1a: ok19:05
gintasI like the idea of pushing the rc upstream19:05
gintasI think that we have very few users at the moment and so the rc gets little testing19:06
jintyth1a: btw: we(SchoolTool project) are upstream. Debian/Ubuntu are downstream.19:06
bskahanignas: thanks, I was looking at schoolbell/app/rest/configure.zcml19:06
th1ajinty:  Thanks.19:06
jintysoftware flows, well, downstream!19:07
bskahanignas: should those go in schooltool/rest/configure.zcml?  are they used outside of the rest interface?19:08
tvon|x31I'm off to lunch, I'll be around later19:08
mgedminbskahan, no, they are not view specific19:08
th1aWe could just call it 0.10 final and do a bugfix release if necessary.19:09
mgedminyou are talking about IURIObject utility declarations, I presume19:09
mgedminthose should go into schooltool/configure.zcml19:09
th1aThe paradox is that people often don't try something until the final release is out.19:10
bskahanmgedmin: thanks19:11
th1ajinty:  At this point, let's assume that we're going to follow the same course of action next Tuesday, the only difference being whether or not we attach rc1 to the end of the release name.19:11
th1aEven if we do that, we'll act like we'd planned it that way all along, and it is more or less a full release.19:12
th1aThe Google "beta" approach.19:12
jintyso, just release it without any testing period...19:12
* jinty knows there have been few people testing RC's19:12
th1aWe'll see how we feel about it.  Probably we'll call it an rc.19:13
th1aOr we could do an rc tomorrow and backport the csv changes, which won't be that exensive.19:15
th1aI don't really like that idea, though.19:15
bskahanI think they could be classified as usability bugs19:16
bskahansince its not a new feature19:16
bskahanits just a more understandable interface19:16
th1aBecause it is hard to test the application in its current state.19:16
bskahanth1a: good point19:16
th1aOK, so let's assume its 1.0rc1 next Tuesday but we're going to release it downstream.19:17
jintyI would feel more confident doing a pre-release tomorrow, I.e. jist a snapshot of the trunk19:17
jintyanseeing how that goes down, and then seeing about whether to rc or not to rc19:18
bskahanjinty: if people are testing RCs, could we do a beta snapshot of trunk tomorrow and only release tarballs on the website, then do RC on tuesday and release packages?19:18
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jintythat would increase my level of comfort.19:19
jintyi.e. no branching and no restrictions on new features.19:20
bskahanseems like a good compromise19:20
bskahanwill get people testing this week who won't get an SVN checkout, hopefully19:20
jintyyep, one of the points of is to increase gradually the number of people using the software at the same time as increasing it's stability19:21
jintystability in a asense of changes less19:22
* bskahan is disapointed his Bad URI didn't magically disappear19:24
jintyanyway, till tomorrow mornings trunk snapshot...19:24
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* bskahan notes intstruction is not the same as instruction19:26
povbot`/svn/commits: * gintas committed revision 3912:19:30
povbot`/svn/commits: Editing people hurts.19:30
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bskahanwhats the right way to fake that a test Stub provides a particular interface?19:41
mgedminclass Stub: implements(IParticular)19:41
bskahanmgedmin: thanks19:41
* mgedmin is surprised that it wasn't obvious19:41
bskahanI was looking at __conform__ for womthing else19:42
mgedminthat's for adaptation19:43
bskahanwow, that was an impressive typo19:43
* bskahan nods19:43
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povbot`/svn/commits: * bskahan committed revision 3913:20:10
povbot`/svn/commits: added doctests and bugfix for r386420:10
povbot`/svn/commits: added utilities and ftests for restive instruction relationships20:10
bskahanoops, that was 3908, not 386420:11
mgedmintwisted uses it to automatically run unit tests:
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povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 3914:20:44
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povbot`/svn/commits: Removed obsolete XXX -- the code in question now has unit tests.20:44
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povbot`/svn/commits: * mg committed revision 3915:20:45
povbot`/svn/commits: Made the person scheduling view not break when there are no terms or timetable schemas.20:45
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th1agintas:  I've been thinking about the timetable import problem.21:20
th1agintas:  ayt?21:21
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