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| th1a | hi replaceafill. | 18:19 |
|---|---|---|
| replaceafill | hey th1a | 18:22 |
| th1a | OK, permanent crown in place. | 18:23 |
| replaceafill | ah | 18:23 |
| replaceafill | pain? | 18:23 |
| th1a | Nah. | 18:23 |
| th1a | Had a little cement stuck between the teeth that was a bitch to get out. | 18:23 |
| th1a | So that took a little while. | 18:24 |
| replaceafill | :S | 18:25 |
| th1a | OK, so how are we doing on estimating these tasks for Fran? | 18:26 |
| replaceafill | do we have the requirements for streams? | 18:26 |
| th1a | Ah, let's discuss that. | 18:27 |
| replaceafill | sure | 18:27 |
| replaceafill | also | 18:27 |
| replaceafill | from peas | 18:27 |
| replaceafill | it was streams and...? | 18:27 |
| replaceafill | the dashboard, right? | 18:27 |
| th1a | Yeah. Right. | 18:27 |
| th1a | Man, I was very scattered yesterday. | 18:28 |
| th1a | I ended up having to put the vat on my personal credit card. | 18:28 |
| th1a | I'm going to get SIELibre a credit card. | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | oh | 18:28 |
| th1a | Couldn't get the UK tax site to take our debit card this time. | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | i thought we already had one | 18:29 |
| th1a | We have a debit card. | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | ah | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | got it | 18:29 |
| th1a | I'll get one from the same bank, pretty much just for this purpose. | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | makes sense | 18:29 |
| th1a | OK, so I'll look at the dashboard more this afternoon and try to come up with some ideas. | 18:30 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:31 |
| th1a | Streams then... | 18:32 |
| th1a | So, basically associating a stream with one or more *sections*. | 18:33 |
| replaceafill | stream has members | 18:33 |
| replaceafill | with status | 18:33 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:34 |
| th1a | Yes? | 18:34 |
| replaceafill | let's enumerate the requirements :) | 18:34 |
| replaceafill | what about the access to the streams? | 18:34 |
| replaceafill | school page, from the school year section | 18:34 |
| th1a | OK, let me back up. | 18:35 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:35 |
| th1a | Do we have streams? | 18:35 |
| th1a | *me loses track of these things...* | 18:35 |
| replaceafill | eeh no | 18:35 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:35 |
| th1a | We haven't created these special groups yet. | 18:35 |
| th1a | Well, | 18:35 |
| th1a | do we need special groups? | 18:35 |
| th1a | Or should we just do this for all groups? | 18:35 |
| replaceafill | i mean, they're group-ish in the sense they have members | 18:36 |
| th1a | RIght now streams are groups? | 18:36 |
| replaceafill | yeah, streams are just groups | 18:36 |
| replaceafill | and usuallly when we present Streams popups or whatever, we just filter default groups out | 18:36 |
| replaceafill | s/popups/dropdowns | 18:37 |
| th1a | OK. I guess I'm the one who has been advocating for making streams separate. | 18:37 |
| * th1a is loading this discussion into working memory. | 18:37 | |
| th1a | OK, so let's assume that streams are just special groups. | 18:38 |
| replaceafill | should streams be attached also to levels? | 18:38 |
| th1a | Yeah, probably, but I don't think it is an immediate case. | 18:38 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:39 |
| th1a | I think we should probably take the opportunity to make streams their own objects. | 18:39 |
| th1a | If we can squeeze it in. | 18:39 |
| th1a | Otherwise, essentially a student's membership status in a stream has to be propogated to the attached sections. | 18:40 |
| replaceafill | i think they should be a separate object | 18:41 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 18:41 |
| th1a | They wouldn't HAVE to be. | 18:41 |
| th1a | But it is an unnecessary short cut at this point to keep them as regular groups. | 18:42 |
| replaceafill | i agree | 18:43 |
| th1a | Also, we'll have to think about how statuses will map. Would it be sane for streams to just have the same statuses as sections? | 18:44 |
| th1a | for enrollment. | 18:44 |
| replaceafill | hhmm | 18:45 |
| replaceafill | we have: | 18:45 |
| replaceafill | inactive, active, and completed | 18:45 |
| replaceafill | as "meaning" codes | 18:46 |
| replaceafill | for sections | 18:46 |
| replaceafill | we haven't used the completed one | 18:46 |
| replaceafill | i remember there's a viewlet for completed courses... | 18:46 |
| replaceafill | yeah | 18:47 |
| th1a | OK, "completed" doesn't make sense in that context. | 18:47 |
| * replaceafill stands corrected | 18:47 | |
| replaceafill | we have a completed courses viewlet | 18:47 |
| replaceafill | that displays only when you are member of a completed section | 18:47 |
| replaceafill | i mean | 18:48 |
| replaceafill | you're a member of a section and you have a completed status :) | 18:48 |
| replaceafill | you mean completed doesn't make sense for streams? | 18:48 |
| replaceafill | or for sections? | 18:48 |
| th1a | Oh, ok, wait. | 18:49 |
| th1a | Loading... | 18:49 |
| th1a | Processing. | 18:49 |
| th1a | OK, so if you make a change at the section level (to a student enrollment) it doesn't propogate back to the stream at all anyhow. | 18:49 |
| th1a | It is a one way relationship. | 18:49 |
| th1a | So I'd say streams should share section enrollment statuses. | 18:50 |
| th1a | Keep it simple. | 18:50 |
| th1a | If you change a student's enrollment status for a stream, it is sent to the sections. | 18:50 |
| th1a | That's it. | 18:50 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:51 |
| replaceafill | so, we need a /streams view | 18:52 |
| replaceafill | with tabs for years | 18:52 |
| replaceafill | like /sections and /groups | 18:52 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:52 |
| replaceafill | add view, with just title + description | 18:53 |
| replaceafill | a view on the stream to "edit" sections | 18:53 |
| replaceafill | not sure if we need two separate steps for adding and editing | 18:54 |
| replaceafill | sections | 18:54 |
| th1a | Hm. | 18:55 |
| th1a | We usually end up needing two. | 18:55 |
| replaceafill | it'll be a relationship view, right? | 18:55 |
| replaceafill | i mean | 18:55 |
| replaceafill | relationship between the stream and the sections | 18:55 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:57 |
| replaceafill | we don't have two steps for relationship views | 18:57 |
| replaceafill | it just starts empty | 18:57 |
| replaceafill | (for the current table) | 18:57 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:58 |
| replaceafill | what happens to current members when you relate/unrelate sections | 18:58 |
| th1a | Yes, whatever it takes, replaceafill. | 18:58 |
| replaceafill | changes propagate | 18:58 |
| th1a | I would say yes but we should ask Fran. | 18:59 |
| replaceafill | and new members of the stream pick the current related sections | 19:00 |
| replaceafill | ok | 19:00 |
| replaceafill | again, streams should be accessed from School | 19:00 |
| replaceafill | http://dev.schooltool.org/isli_updates/manage | 19:00 |
| replaceafill | maybe between Subjects and Subject sections? | 19:01 |
| replaceafill | Courses and Sections in standard ST | 19:01 |
| th1a | OK. | 19:01 |
| replaceafill | what else... | 19:02 |
| th1a | There's not that much to it. | 19:03 |
| replaceafill | have live search like courses and sections, right? | 19:05 |
| th1a | OK. Do you want me to update the blueprint based on this discussion? | 19:05 |
| replaceafill | (meaning we need a catalog) | 19:05 |
| replaceafill | sure | 19:05 |
| th1a | Probably it should have all the same functionality. | 19:05 |
| replaceafill | i'm breaking my notes down | 19:05 |
| th1a | If you've got the notes maybe just paste them in. | 19:05 |
| replaceafill | to get estimate each part | 19:05 |
| replaceafill | oh no | 19:05 |
| replaceafill | my notes are usually IRC copy/paste | 19:05 |
| replaceafill | with little adjustments | 19:05 |
| th1a | That's all I'd do! | 19:06 |
| replaceafill | (need catalog, table formatter) | 19:06 |
| th1a | Why don't you paste them in and I'll clean 'em up. | 19:06 |
| replaceafill | ok, let me try to clean them | 19:06 |
| th1a | It is a white board! | 19:06 |
| replaceafill | can you please look for the blueprint | 19:06 |
| th1a | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/schooltool.ark/+spec/subject-stream-enrollment | 19:07 |
| th1a | I just renamed it. | 19:08 |
| replaceafill | oh | 19:09 |
| replaceafill | Link streams to particular classes to allow... ? | 19:09 |
| replaceafill | so, it's a requirement | 19:09 |
| replaceafill | stream <-> level | 19:10 |
| th1a | Well, we'll need further discussion. | 19:11 |
| th1a | What is a "Class?" | 19:11 |
| replaceafill | level | 19:12 |
| th1a | OK. Maybe we just need to discuss this further before we take it any further or write down estimates. | 19:14 |
| th1a | Oh, this isn't in the rising milestone anyhow. | 19:16 |
| th1a | BUt it is one she mentioned was a priority. | 19:16 |
| th1a | Hm. | 19:16 |
| th1a | OK, anyhow. | 19:16 |
| replaceafill | ok, improve: | 19:17 |
| replaceafill | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/schooltool.ark/+spec/stream-section-enrollment | 19:17 |
| replaceafill | ah crap | 19:18 |
| replaceafill | emacs... | 19:18 |
| replaceafill | sta\ | 19:18 |
| replaceafill | temporal \ | 19:19 |
| replaceafill | :/ | 19:19 |
| th1a | OK. Thanks. | 19:19 |
| th1a | All right, a lot of these rising things are probably simple but we still have questions about. | 19:19 |
| th1a | Did you spend any time with the app api? | 19:20 |
| replaceafill | no | 19:20 |
| replaceafill | i was working on the package | 19:20 |
| th1a | This is an android app. Maybe we can get a copy. | 19:20 |
| th1a | OK. | 19:20 |
| replaceafill | putting the logo, etc | 19:20 |
| th1a | Maybe if you have time work on that? | 19:20 |
| replaceafill | i was thinking of just poking the api | 19:21 |
| replaceafill | from postman and python script | 19:21 |
| replaceafill | i was thinking of starting by querying the "data model" | 19:21 |
| replaceafill | and go from there | 19:21 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 19:22 |
| replaceafill | i also started the teacher/student/school attendance score system preference work | 19:22 |
| th1a | I mean, at some point. | 19:22 |
| replaceafill | we'll need it anyway | 19:22 |
| th1a | Yep. | 19:22 |
| replaceafill | to allow plugins to use their own scoresystems | 19:22 |
| replaceafill | ok | 19:22 |
| replaceafill | we still need feedback on the other things i guess | 19:23 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 19:23 |
| replaceafill | all i have (concrete) is the score system for rising | 19:23 |
| th1a | We should be able to nail most of these down quickly after the chat on Monday. | 19:24 |
| replaceafill | not sure if we had a conclusion on the comments? | 19:24 |
| replaceafill | i mean, assessment - comments | 19:25 |
| replaceafill | oh sorry | 19:25 |
| replaceafill | i should talk blueprints ;) | 19:25 |
| replaceafill | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/schooltool.ark/+spec/assessment-comments | 19:25 |
| replaceafill | oh yeah | 19:25 |
| replaceafill | that's what you said in the meeting | 19:25 |
| replaceafill | the "long asked for" part :) | 19:25 |
| replaceafill | but i'm not sure how are we going to handle | 19:26 |
| replaceafill | it | 19:26 |
| th1a | Realistically, it should be like double click on any of the cells in all our gradebooky things, and add a comment to the score. | 19:26 |
| th1a | It should just be universal. | 19:26 |
| replaceafill | :| | 19:26 |
| replaceafill | hhmm | 19:26 |
| replaceafill | like it should work on the journal too? | 19:27 |
| th1a | I'd "pay" for a few SIELibre days if we could get it done. | 19:27 |
| replaceafill | and cando, etc | 19:27 |
| th1a | I mean, these are the kind of things I said 10 years ago. | 19:27 |
| replaceafill | define "pay"... | 19:27 |
| th1a | Not charge Fran. | 19:27 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 19:27 |
| th1a | As in, give you LESS money. ;-) | 19:27 |
| replaceafill | ... | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | hhmm | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | i'm not sure about the double click part | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | but in any case | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | leaving UI out | 19:28 |
| th1a | Double click or right click. | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | wouldn't just annotating the score work | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | oh wait | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | scores have history | 19:29 |
| replaceafill | well | 19:29 |
| replaceafill | it's not the score | 19:29 |
| replaceafill | it's the evaluation | 19:29 |
| replaceafill | would you need different comments for the history? | 19:29 |
| th1a | For each evaluation? | 19:30 |
| replaceafill | gradebook cell = evaluation | 19:30 |
| replaceafill | evaluation has score history | 19:30 |
| th1a | You'd need to record them in the history, yes. | 19:30 |
| replaceafill | can you explain the UI for that case | 19:32 |
| th1a | I mean, it would come up in the history view? | 19:32 |
| replaceafill | history is stored as a list | 19:32 |
| replaceafill | sure | 19:33 |
| th1a | Yeah, it would be in the list. | 19:33 |
| replaceafill | but i mean, the input | 19:33 |
| th1a | Oh... | 19:33 |
| replaceafill | from a blank unscored cell | 19:33 |
| th1a | We might need a no score evaluation for that case? Comment only? | 19:33 |
| replaceafill | we can have an UNSCORED evaluation | 19:34 |
| th1a | OK. | 19:34 |
| replaceafill | yeah | 19:34 |
| th1a | Bascially the comment would be on the visible score. | 19:34 |
| replaceafill | looking at the code | 19:34 |
| th1a | Score first, comment second. | 19:34 |
| replaceafill | i think this should be done at the Evaluation object level | 19:34 |
| th1a | Sure. | 19:35 |
| replaceafill | can i think about it and we come back to it later | 19:36 |
| replaceafill | ? | 19:36 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 19:36 |
| replaceafill | i'd like to see what's possible with the object being in a list | 19:36 |
| replaceafill | (for the history) | 19:36 |
| replaceafill | i'm brain-f***ed with the UI part | 19:36 |
| replaceafill | but i kind of see the annotation part | 19:37 |
| replaceafill | ok | 19:37 |
| th1a | It seems like the choices are right click or double click to get a dialog. | 19:37 |
| replaceafill | oh | 19:37 |
| replaceafill | sorry | 19:37 |
| replaceafill | i didn't see your score first, comment second | 19:37 |
| replaceafill | that makes sense | 19:38 |
| replaceafill | enter 95, click Save | 19:38 |
| replaceafill | score is saved and put in history | 19:38 |
| replaceafill | right click on readonly 95 | 19:38 |
| th1a | I think that would do. | 19:38 |
| replaceafill | add comment | 19:38 |
| replaceafill | or edit comment if it exists | 19:38 |
| replaceafill | got it | 19:39 |
| replaceafill | i think there's a bug for this... | 19:39 |
| replaceafill | i'll look for it later | 19:39 |
| th1a | OK. | 19:39 |
| replaceafill | https://bugs.launchpad.net/schooltool.gradebook/+bug/515602 | 19:39 |
| replaceafill | :) | 19:39 |
| th1a | I guess my question would be whether it is sane at all to think of it as being a general part of evaluations plumbing. | 19:40 |
| replaceafill | oh, look at Justas comment | 19:40 |
| replaceafill | about using notes for this | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | well, in any case | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | thankfully we share evaluations between the gradebooks | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | cando, journal | 19:41 |
| th1a | Yeah, we used to have notes on everything! | 19:41 |
| th1a | Very early. | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | they're all go to the persons IEvaluations annotation | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | i remember on my first tasks in 2009 was helping someone with their notes evolution! | 19:42 |
| replaceafill | when notes were not even there yet | 19:42 |
| replaceafill | i mean | 19:42 |
| replaceafill | anymore | 19:42 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 19:42 |
| replaceafill | " | 19:43 |
| replaceafill | We're looking at adding comments about grades, etc. this year. | 19:43 |
| replaceafill | " | 19:43 |
| replaceafill | "2013-01-31" | 19:43 |
| replaceafill | :D | 19:43 |
| replaceafill | ok | 19:43 |
| replaceafill | Fran said she'll get feedback for the behaviour stories, right? | 19:44 |
| th1a | Yes. | 19:44 |
| replaceafill | ok | 19:44 |
| replaceafill | new demographics should be stratightforward once we know what to add | 19:44 |
| replaceafill | and how many fields, etc | 19:45 |
| replaceafill | timestamps? | 19:45 |
| replaceafill | also expecting feeback from her team? | 19:45 |
| th1a | Yes. | 19:46 |
| replaceafill | ok | 19:46 |
| th1a | All right. I wired you your pay yesterday. | 19:47 |
| replaceafill | ah yes | 19:47 |
| replaceafill | thanks | 19:47 |
| th1a | I've got to send a revised invoice to Denise, but she's got the purchase order cleared, so we should get paid by them soon. | 19:48 |
| replaceafill | ah cool | 19:48 |
| replaceafill | i guess Denise will come up with feedback about the filters soon | 19:49 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 19:49 |
| replaceafill | ok | 19:49 |
| th1a | Hopefully not out of left field. | 19:49 |
| replaceafill | : | 19:49 |
| replaceafill | ) | 19:49 |
| th1a | I need to go get my dashboard book out of the attic. | 19:50 |
| replaceafill | oh, i sent Fran a question about the fees issue | 19:50 |
| th1a | OK. | 19:50 |
| * replaceafill done | 19:50 | |
| th1a | Thanks replaceafill. | 19:51 |
| replaceafill | thanks th1a | 19:51 |
| th1a | After digging around the attic, the dashboard book was on my shelf the whole time. | 20:31 |
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| th1a | ayt replaceafill? | 22:38 |
| replaceafill | th1a, yes | 22:47 |
| th1a | I think it should be fine to just do the dashboard as web pages. | 22:48 |
| th1a | I was thrown off a bit on my first scan through. | 22:48 |
| th1a | Like, the assessment is essentially the same thing twice. | 22:48 |
| th1a | I have some ideas for improving the assessment part though. | 22:49 |
| th1a | Fran's design resembles several of the examples of bad dashboard design in my book. ;-) | 22:50 |
| replaceafill | what about the print option? | 22:50 |
| replaceafill | css? | 22:50 |
| th1a | I think that should be ok. | 22:52 |
| replaceafill | ok | 22:52 |
| replaceafill | wtf? | 23:26 |
| replaceafill | temperature field in the check_in model for teachers in the mobile app | 23:26 |
| replaceafill | :| | 23:26 |
| th1a | Ebola. | 23:27 |
| th1a | ? | 23:27 |
| replaceafill | :O | 23:27 |
| th1a | Yeah, it is. | 23:27 |
| replaceafill | discrete (0.1) range goes from 35.5 to 40.0 | 23:27 |
| th1a | That's what it is. | 23:28 |
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| th1a | I'd be interested in using something like this for the assessment section, one graph per subject with the points being sections. https://www.add-ins.com/box-and-whisker-plot-1.png | 23:31 |
| replaceafill | i think we should stick to simple bars at the beginning | 23:32 |
| replaceafill | unless we find the right type of library | 23:32 |
| replaceafill | to output those | 23:32 |
| replaceafill | i just remember how time consuming the cando charts were | 23:33 |
| replaceafill | (similar to that one) | 23:33 |
| th1a | Well, bars won't do it. | 23:33 |
| replaceafill | this is where she wants colored tables, right? | 23:34 |
| replaceafill | the assessment part | 23:34 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 23:35 |
| th1a | http://d3plus.org/examples/basic/78018ce8c3787d4e30d9/ | 23:35 |
| th1a | I'd just like this dashboard to actually be good. | 23:39 |
| replaceafill | maybe you could mock a prototype :) | 23:42 |
| replaceafill | and i just put the right values in place | 23:42 |
| th1a | I want to ask her some questions. | 23:42 |
| replaceafill | ok | 23:43 |
| th1a | In particular, the rows could be courses or streams. | 23:43 |
| th1a | Looking at her fake data I would say they should be courses (subjects). | 23:43 |
| th1a | But that may just be the way her fake data is laid out. | 23:43 |
| th1a | Something like this might be more useful for the Enrolment section: http://www.datavizcatalogue.com/methods/dot_matrix_chart.html | 23:44 |
| th1a | Maybe something like this: http://bl.ocks.org/sxv/4491174 | 23:45 |
| replaceafill | do we know what kind of integration Fran is talking about with the mobile app? | 23:48 |
| th1a | Attendance? | 23:49 |
| replaceafill | who's sending data where? | 23:49 |
| th1a | Mostly pulling to SchoolTool. | 23:49 |
| replaceafill | ok | 23:49 |
| th1a | Well, sending enrollment, pulling data. | 23:49 |
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