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| th1a | hi replaceafill, aelkner, menesis, yvl. | 16:31 |
|---|---|---|
| menesis | hi | 16:32 |
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| replaceafill | good morning/afternoon | 16:32 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:32 |
| yvl | good morning | 16:33 |
| th1a | First off, send me your invoices, and I'll try to get them out this week so everyone can do their Christmas shopping. | 16:34 |
| th1a | I'm going to Arlington on Friday for meetings with people at APS (and dwelsh and jelkner). | 16:35 |
| th1a | Also I got a response from Antonio from CL. They've not released our update yet, which is actually a bit less disappointing than if they had done it without telling us. | 16:36 |
| th1a | I'll talk to them about getting CanDo in. | 16:37 |
| th1a | Otherwise, pretty much everyone here seems to be getting over their colds/ear infections/walking pneumonia. | 16:37 |
| th1a | So hopefully my week will suck less and be more productive. | 16:38 |
| th1a | replaceafill? | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | ok | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | last week i merged yvl skill events fix | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | and added selenium tests for it | 16:39 |
| yvl | \o/ | 16:39 |
| yvl | thanks! | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | :D | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | i also finished working on the sorting by label stuff | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | i think (and hope) everything sorts right | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | and on friday i tried to help glenda debug her database | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | she had already the new skills imported | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | so the events didn't fire because the Changer didn't detect any changes | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | so i used a hacked version of the batch assign view to fix her database | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | and sent it to her | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | she said she was going to work on that today | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | so i expect some more emails in that regard :) | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | i also checked an issue reported by menesis on projects | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | when viewed by students | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | and we already have a bug for it: | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | https://bugs.launchpad.net/schooltool.cando/+bug/1070278 | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | (i think it's the same issue) | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | so, basically, we don't have a view for projects for students :( | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | i'll work on that | 16:44 |
| th1a | OK. Then IEP's? | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | ah | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/flourish/revision/3520 | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | i added the stesting import to schooltool.export | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | i think menesis complained once about this method | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | but i needed it for schooltool quiz :) | 16:46 |
| * replaceafill done | 16:46 | |
| th1a | Thanks replaceafill. | 16:47 |
| th1a | aelkner? | 16:47 |
| menesis | import stesting, is the same in other modules __init__.py, has to be solved at once | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | menesis, right, that's why i thought :) "we're doing it everywhere, so... " :D | 16:47 |
| aelkner | i finished adding the tests to the skill_scoresystems branch for gradebook with non-default scoresystems | 16:48 |
| aelkner | this includes tests for the grade student view | 16:49 |
| aelkner | and the fixes i had to make to the score validators in both cando and gradebook packages | 16:49 |
| aelkner | i'm still holding these skill scoresystems changes in a branch on the side | 16:51 |
| th1a | Yes aelkner... | 16:51 |
| aelkner | i can make a merge request of that branch and the gradebook branch that fixes the score validation | 16:51 |
| th1a | Is there anything else to do on this task? | 16:51 |
| aelkner | nothing i can think of | 16:52 |
| th1a | We'll have to fix the reports, but I'd rather do that with replaceafill. | 16:52 |
| aelkner | ok, i also started to work on the new version of getverso.py that matches on skillset external id | 16:53 |
| aelkner | but we need them to make the new_verso_skills.xls file the current one | 16:53 |
| aelkner | before we can deliver that to them | 16:53 |
| th1a | replaceafill, https://bugs.launchpad.net/cando/+bug/1085997 | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | th1a, ah kk | 16:55 |
| aelkner | so besides getting the new version of getverso_xls.py the the cte folks | 16:56 |
| aelkner | i have this resource report that i have sitting on my machine, need to push it | 16:57 |
| aelkner | what should i be working on next? | 16:57 |
| th1a | I'm thinking report sheet enhancements. | 16:57 |
| th1a | Basically calculations in report sheet.s | 16:58 |
| th1a | Since you've been the report sheet guy. | 16:58 |
| aelkner | so what's your thinking on that subject? | 16:59 |
| th1a | Well, we can go over the details later today if you'd like. | 16:59 |
| th1a | It is just a little math. ;-) | 16:59 |
| aelkner | sure, we can meet later to discuss it | 17:00 |
| th1a | OK. 2:00? 3:00? | 17:01 |
| aelkner | let's say 3:00 | 17:01 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Thanks aelkner. | 17:02 |
| th1a | yvl? | 17:02 |
| yvl | did the automatic table conversion to RML | 17:02 |
| yvl | now working (somewhat done) on generic sub-table behaviour | 17:03 |
| th1a | Does this deal with page breaks at all? | 17:03 |
| yvl | so we could specify a column to goup by | 17:03 |
| yvl | hmm | 17:04 |
| * yvl didn't check, thanks for reminding | 17:04 | |
| yvl | yes, it should | 17:04 |
| yvl | it was kind of fun rendering the rml below our ajaxy tables | 17:05 |
| yvl | and see it change while searching and sorting :) | 17:05 |
| yvl | one zcml directive -> debug rml under all ST tables :) | 17:05 |
| th1a | Ah, nice. | 17:06 |
| yvl | it helps ;) | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | tests! | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | can we use that for testing rml? | 17:06 |
| yvl | well, technically... | 17:06 |
| yvl | if devmode is on | 17:06 |
| yvl | and you know the exact pdf url | 17:07 |
| yvl | you can get/post there + /@@rml | 17:07 |
| yvl | student005/profile.pdf/@@rml | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | ah ok, got it | 17:07 |
| yvl | btw, I'm currently adding to our default formatters a group_by_column option | 17:08 |
| yvl | if you pass group_by_column='term' to our section table for example | 17:08 |
| yvl | it will group sections by terms, and render "subtables" in html | 17:08 |
| yvl | those <th> things inside <body> | 17:08 |
| th1a | So we'll be adding some kind of link to a PDF version at left? | 17:09 |
| yvl | maybe | 17:09 |
| yvl | it would be easier to add print buttons below the tables though | 17:09 |
| yvl | since it would print currently filtered list | 17:09 |
| th1a | Yes... it is more like you're printing the table than the page. | 17:10 |
| th1a | Right? | 17:10 |
| yvl | yes | 17:11 |
| yvl | it would be a convenience button/link | 17:11 |
| yvl | go to persons, filter by students | 17:12 |
| yvl | click print | 17:12 |
| yvl | or print all english course sections | 17:12 |
| yvl | and such | 17:12 |
| yvl | or all equipment :) | 17:13 |
| yvl | also that lets us use our table formatters in reports | 17:14 |
| th1a | OK, that makes sense. | 17:15 |
| th1a | But presumably we'll also have some formal reports that include these tables too. | 17:15 |
| th1a | e.g., a multi-part report with several tables. | 17:16 |
| th1a | In a standard sort/filter. | 17:16 |
| yvl | sure | 17:16 |
| th1a | OK, sounds good. | 17:17 |
| yvl | so next... | 17:17 |
| yvl | I'll try to bring nice page breaks for reports tables with sub-headers | 17:18 |
| yvl | just work around somehow | 17:18 |
| yvl | and look into slanted gradebook column titles | 17:19 |
| yvl | that's it. | 17:19 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:19 |
| th1a | Thanks yvl. | 17:19 |
| th1a | Did you like the picture of the shunned house? | 17:19 |
| yvl | oh yes! | 17:20 |
| th1a | It is probably a little cheerier than you'd imagine it. ;-) | 17:20 |
| yvl | yet we can see the hidden truths through the paint | 17:21 |
| th1a | It leaks through. | 17:22 |
| th1a | We'll have the tour figured out for your visit. | 17:22 |
| yvl | thanks! | 17:22 |
| th1a | replaceafill, yvl, are your flights squared away? | 17:22 |
| replaceafill | th1a, yes | 17:23 |
| yvl | yes | 17:25 |
| th1a | Send me the info if you haven't already. | 17:25 |
| yvl | menesis and me arrives @ Jan 26, 7PM, Providence, USA - T F Green | 17:26 |
| * replaceafill arrive @ Jan 26, 10:36 PM | 17:26 | |
| replaceafill | th1a, sent | 17:27 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 17:28 |
| th1a | OK, menesis? | 17:28 |
| menesis | I have released gradebook & cando | 17:29 |
| menesis | and was uploading zope packages to ubuntu raring | 17:29 |
| menesis | close to catching up to ZTK 1.1 | 17:30 |
| menesis | tried the new autopkgtest infrastructure | 17:30 |
| menesis | the packages I upload now get tested with installed versions | 17:31 |
| menesis | on ubuntu | 17:31 |
| menesis | results can be seen at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/AutoPkgTest/ | 17:32 |
| menesis | after initial failure and someone fixing my error all tests have been passing | 17:32 |
| menesis | :) | 17:32 |
| th1a | Good news. | 17:33 |
| menesis | will enable testing on schooltool packages as well | 17:33 |
| menesis | and.. | 17:34 |
| menesis | that's it | 17:34 |
| menesis | was working on more zope packages today | 17:34 |
| * menesis done | 17:36 | |
| th1a | Thanks menesis. | 17:38 |
| th1a | OK. I should publicly state that my goal is to get CanDo documentation done before Christmas. | 17:38 |
| th1a | Put myself on the hook. | 17:38 |
| th1a | OK, thanks guys. | 17:38 |
| th1a | See you Wednesday. aelkner, later today. | 17:39 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:39 | |
| replaceafill | thanks everybody | 17:39 |
| yvl | thanks guys | 17:40 |
| aelkner | thanks guys, cya wed | 17:42 |
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| replaceafill | th1a, have you thought of making the "%" in worksheet averages optional? | 20:12 |
| replaceafill | a user from Chile is asking a question related to decimal places in averages: | 20:12 |
| replaceafill | https://answers.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/215884 | 20:12 |
| replaceafill | well, decimal places and score systems | 20:13 |
| th1a | replaceafill: What's the question? | 20:48 |
| replaceafill | he's looking for advice on getting a rounded average | 20:49 |
| replaceafill | he's set up a custom score system to get averages from 0-7 | 20:49 |
| replaceafill | 0.0-7.0 | 20:49 |
| replaceafill | but he's getting averages like 5.875 apparently | 20:49 |
| replaceafill | at first i thought just removing the % in average might be enough | 20:50 |
| replaceafill | but i think you need the custom score system anyway | 20:50 |
| th1a | Well... | 20:50 |
| th1a | We should just round to the correct significant digits? | 20:51 |
| replaceafill | i haven't checked yet, but regular averages just use ".1f" | 20:52 |
| replaceafill | meaning, one decimal place | 20:52 |
| replaceafill | i'm not sure how custom score system do it | 20:52 |
| replaceafill | systems* | 20:52 |
| th1a | Is this ranged or discrete? | 20:53 |
| replaceafill | custom, so it's discrete | 20:54 |
| replaceafill | right? | 20:54 |
| th1a | Well... if that's what you're calling it. | 20:55 |
| th1a | So... we just need to make range score systems round the average the same way? | 20:57 |
| replaceafill | i'd think so | 20:57 |
| replaceafill | i need to check though | 20:57 |
| th1a | ok | 20:57 |
| replaceafill | i asked him to share his score system setup | 21:02 |
| replaceafill | so i can test :) | 21:02 |
| th1a | aelkner? | 22:04 |
| aelkner | hey th1a | 22:05 |
| th1a | OK, so, I'm having trouble finding the original request/bug. | 22:07 |
| th1a | Actually it is probably a question... | 22:07 |
| th1a | We really have a lot of spanish questions. | 22:08 |
| th1a | OK, there is this: https://answers.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/211672 | 22:08 |
| aelkner | i was looking through the code in advance of our discussion | 22:10 |
| aelkner | the worksheet object has a canAverage method that the gradebook view uses | 22:10 |
| aelkner | if the worksheet is deployed, but not course worksheet, then no average allowed | 22:11 |
| aelkner | i can't think at the moment wy this needs to be the case | 22:11 |
| aelkner | perhaps we didn't think the averages of discrete scores made sense | 22:11 |
| th1a | Well... | 22:11 |
| aelkner | but since the average is just a percentage | 22:11 |
| aelkner | it really is not wrong to perform the calculation | 22:12 |
| aelkner | for instance, three pass/fail activities | 22:12 |
| th1a | Do we only allow discrete score systems in report sheets, or both? | 22:12 |
| aelkner | two pass scores, one fail, average 66 % | 22:12 |
| aelkner | currently we only allow discrete in report sheets | 22:12 |
| aelkner | again, that decision may or may not have been arbitrary, i can't remember | 22:14 |
| th1a | It is arbitrary in the sense that people may actually want to use numbers there. | 22:15 |
| th1a | So I'd say that's the first step. | 22:15 |
| th1a | Do you wee anything scary there? | 22:16 |
| aelkner | ok, i'm an idiot, i found out by checking the add report activity view | 22:17 |
| aelkner | it's actually the other way around, only activities with ranged values scoresystems can be added | 22:18 |
| aelkner | oops, wrong again | 22:19 |
| aelkner | any type | 22:19 |
| aelkner | it's the gradebook for teachers that is ranged values only | 22:19 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:19 |
| aelkner | that's until now, where cando has discrete ones in its gradebook | 22:19 |
| th1a | I'm not going to get too impatient because obviously I could be trying to figure this out myself. ;-) | 22:19 |
| th1a | OK, so right now, report sheets can take any kind of score. | 22:20 |
| th1a | And any kind of score can be converted to a %. | 22:20 |
| aelkner | yes, but not be averaged, a small fix only needed there | 22:20 |
| th1a | And then we can make an average and convert back into a score system. | 22:21 |
| aelkner | yes | 22:21 |
| th1a | And we could add weighting to that calculation. | 22:21 |
| aelkner | yes | 22:22 |
| th1a | Actually... we could also just do this in the report card layout. | 22:24 |
| th1a | That might be easier. | 22:24 |
| aelkner | i don't see a place for that in the layout, there you just choose and activity | 22:26 |
| aelkner | choose an activity to place in the grid or outline | 22:26 |
| th1a | Well, the idea is this is necessary so that you can calculate an average that appears in the report card. | 22:26 |
| th1a | So it would be a new kind of column. | 22:26 |
| th1a | I think doing it at the report layout level is easier because then it is one step, rather than adding a calculation column to the report sheet AND to the report layout. | 22:27 |
| aelkner | are you suggesting that we add the average of a deployed report sheet to the | 22:29 |
| aelkner | list of available activities to add as a grid column or outline activity? | 22:29 |
| aelkner | for instance: | 22:29 |
| aelkner | i just added a report sheet template called Foo with activity, Bar and deployed it | 22:30 |
| aelkner | in the layout add grid or outline view, the drop down has: | 22:30 |
| th1a | It would just be for a grid. | 22:30 |
| aelkner | 2001 Fall - Foo - Bar | 22:30 |
| aelkner | 2011 Spring - Foo - Bar | 22:30 |
| aelkner | Absent | 22:31 |
| aelkner | Tardy | 22:31 |
| aelkner | would you like the dropdown to also have: | 22:31 |
| aelkner | 2011 Fall - Foo - Average | 22:31 |
| aelkner | 2011 Spring - Foo - Average? | 22:31 |
| aelkner | so the average can be a column like any other in the report card? | 22:32 |
| th1a | Well, actually creating the average would at least require an additional step. | 22:32 |
| th1a | Since we need it to be weighted, but essentially yes. | 22:32 |
| aelkner | the average is not created, it is calculated on demand | 22:32 |
| th1a | Yes. | 22:33 |
| aelkner | though the category weighting may be tricky since that is stored with the worksheet | 22:33 |
| aelkner | the teacher changes that in the gradebook | 22:33 |
| aelkner | and the weighting only applies to the worksheet that the user was viewing when changing the weights | 22:34 |
| aelkner | This form allows you to change the weighting of categories when calculating average scores within a worksheet. | 22:34 |
| th1a | Hm? | 22:35 |
| th1a | I'm saying the weighting would just be associated with the report template. | 22:35 |
| aelkner | that's the what's this text for the view: Gradebook Edit Category Weights | 22:35 |
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| aelkner | ah, yes, so the user sets it up in the template and that gets deployed | 22:35 |
| aelkner | that would be trickier, requiring a new version of the weighting view for templates | 22:36 |
| aelkner | but it's doable | 22:36 |
| th1a | Well... | 22:37 |
| aelkner | but that's true, the weights have to be deployed with the template | 22:37 |
| aelkner | we can't let the teacher change them, right? | 22:37 |
| th1a | So what if when you said you wanted to make an average column you'd get a pop-up with the existing score columns and you just set the weight there? | 22:37 |
| th1a | The teacher won't actually see them without looking at the report itself. | 22:37 |
| th1a | That would be the drawback of doing it this way. | 22:37 |
| th1a | It could be a big drawback... | 22:38 |
| th1a | You don't deploy the report card template, right? | 22:39 |
| th1a | It is just like a view. | 22:39 |
| aelkner | ??? | 22:39 |
| aelkner | let's start from what we already have, report sheet templates that get deployed | 22:40 |
| th1a | http://localhost:7080/report_card_layout | 22:40 |
| th1a | What I've been trying to say is that it could just be done at the report card layout level. | 22:41 |
| aelkner | well, category weights are store as annotations of the worksheet object | 22:43 |
| th1a | aelkner, switch contexts! | 22:44 |
| th1a | This doesn't have to touch any of that. | 22:44 |
| th1a | That's the point. | 22:44 |
| aelkner | so, let's say we are in the add grid column view, do we have the two average choices i mentioned earlier | 22:45 |
| aelkner | 2011 Fall - Foo - Average | 22:45 |
| th1a | If we don't worry about if the averages show up in the report sheets, but only the report card, we can just store the weighting with the card layout. | 22:45 |
| aelkner | 2011 Spring - Foo - Average | 22:45 |
| aelkner | i would translate what you just said as: | 22:46 |
| aelkner | if we don't take advantage of the entire design we currently have, we have to rewrite large | 22:46 |
| aelkner | portions of code instead of taking advantage of what we already have | 22:46 |
| th1a | You mean the weighting view? | 22:47 |
| aelkner | there is currently no mechanism for storing category weights in report card layouts | 22:47 |
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| aelkner | that would require a new annotation and logic that duplicates what we do with worksheet category weighting | 22:47 |
| * th1a is constantly amazed at the difficulty of storing numbers and strings in our ZODB. | 22:47 | |
| th1a | OK, so let's go back then to assuming we're doing this at the report sheet level. | 22:48 |
| aelkner | that would be better, yes | 22:49 |
| th1a | So how will it work then? | 22:49 |
| aelkner | at the template level, we could have category weighting | 22:49 |
| aelkner | then the deployment would copy that into each section along with everything else that a worksheet has | 22:50 |
| aelkner | the weighting couldn't be changed in deployed worksheets, but nothing else is anyway | 22:51 |
| aelkner | once deployed, they are set in stone | 22:51 |
| aelkner | we decided that because it's important for every deployed worksheet to be precisely the same | 22:52 |
| aelkner | the teacher already can't change category weights in deployed report sheets | 22:53 |
| aelkner | we block that in the menu items on the left, it desn't appear as an option | 22:53 |
| aelkner | so i think adding a category weighting link and view to the report sheet template context would work | 22:54 |
| th1a | OK, I think you can just go ahead with that. | 22:54 |
| aelkner | sounds like a plan | 22:55 |
| aelkner | so adding the average as a layout choice should not be restricted to grid | 22:56 |
| aelkner | why not also have that in the outline if so desired? | 22:56 |
| th1a | Well... it isn't super important I guess. | 22:56 |
| th1a | To limit it, that is. | 22:56 |
| th1a | So whatever. | 22:56 |
| aelkner | it's easier to have it in both then to limit it in one | 22:56 |
| th1a | ok | 22:56 |
| aelkner | so the teacher should see the average column in the gradebook | 22:57 |
| aelkner | so that check will change to allow the average to appear in deployed worksheets | 22:57 |
| aelkner | anyway, it looks like three reasonable sub-tasks: | 22:58 |
| aelkner | 1) create category weighting view for report sheet templates, not much different from gradebook version | 22:58 |
| aelkner | 2) add average columns to report card layout drop-downs | 22:59 |
| aelkner | 3) make sure report sheets start showing average in teacher's gradebook | 22:59 |
| aelkner | that's all i see at the moment, quite a reasonably sized set of tasks | 23:00 |
| th1a | OK, that'll work. | 23:00 |
| aelkner | ok, agreed | 23:01 |
| th1a | Thanks aelkner. | 23:03 |
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