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| jelkner | replaceafill, good morning! | 15:33 |
|---|---|---|
| replaceafill | good morning jelkner | 15:34 |
| jelkner | i'm in class | 15:35 |
| jelkner | but i want to talk cando with you | 15:35 |
| replaceafill | ok, i just replied to your last email | 15:36 |
| jelkner | great | 15:38 |
| jelkner | i'm talking skills with students now | 15:40 |
| jelkner | we need to talk about how they view their skills | 15:40 |
| jelkner | there should be a way for them to see all section skills at once | 15:41 |
| replaceafill | ah, got it | 15:42 |
| replaceafill | yes, right now, they see each worksheet | 15:43 |
| jelkner | should i read your email before we talk more? | 15:51 |
| jelkner | the teacher workflow for grading is important | 15:51 |
| jelkner | i'm finding it really cumbersome now | 15:51 |
| jelkner | what i usually do is ask students to work on a project | 15:51 |
| jelkner | then i sit down at the computer with their web page and schooltool open at the same time | 15:52 |
| jelkner | and i search their work looking for evidence of skills | 15:52 |
| jelkner | "ahh, look, a group selector, let me give her credit for that..." | 15:53 |
| jelkner | but as it is now | 15:53 |
| jelkner | i have no idea where that skill is | 15:53 |
| jelkner | all i see is little numbers | 15:53 |
| jelkner | and i have to mouse over to find the skill | 15:53 |
| jelkner | what's worse | 15:54 |
| jelkner | it may not be in the current "skill set" | 15:54 |
| jelkner | so no i have to change that | 15:54 |
| jelkner | before i can continue searching | 15:54 |
| jelkner | it took me a loooong time to evaluate skills | 15:54 |
| jelkner | like my brother often tells me | 15:54 |
| jelkner | i'm the "perfect idiot user" | 15:54 |
| jelkner | i'm slow | 15:54 |
| replaceafill | :D | 15:54 |
| jelkner | so if it works for me, it will likely work for others | 15:55 |
| jelkner | anyway, i figured this was what summer testing was all about | 15:55 |
| replaceafill | now that i think of, i believe the "score" option you get the bug from won't help here | 15:55 |
| jelkner | so i'm doing it | 15:55 |
| replaceafill | because it would show you only a single worksheet | 15:55 |
| jelkner | ahh | 15:56 |
| jelkner | in the old cando | 15:56 |
| replaceafill | i think you want the old "cando" student gradebook | 15:56 |
| jelkner | we could see all skills in a section | 15:56 |
| replaceafill | right | 15:56 |
| jelkner | both teachers and students will want that | 15:56 |
| replaceafill | i remember | 15:56 |
| jelkner | we don't really care much about the groups | 15:56 |
| jelkner | we care about the section skills | 15:56 |
| jelkner | student question, brb | 15:57 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, did you check the "Skills Pop-up" dialog? | 15:57 |
| jelkner | no | 15:59 |
| jelkner | but i can do that now | 15:59 |
| jelkner | as teacher? | 15:59 |
| replaceafill | in the View group on the left | 15:59 |
| replaceafill | yes | 15:59 |
| jelkner | or student? | 15:59 |
| jelkner | hold on | 15:59 |
| replaceafill | as a teacher | 15:59 |
| replaceafill | below the radio buttons | 15:59 |
| jelkner | https://schooltool.gctaa.net/schoolyears/Summer2012/summer2012/sections/1/skills/01-3/gradebook | 16:01 |
| jelkner | so i'm here | 16:01 |
| jelkner | where is the "skills popup dialog?" | 16:01 |
| replaceafill | oh sorry | 16:02 |
| replaceafill | in your version is under | 16:02 |
| replaceafill | Course Skills -> View | 16:02 |
| replaceafill | below Year | 16:02 |
| jelkner | ahh i see it | 16:02 |
| jelkner | i looks nice | 16:02 |
| replaceafill | it looks weird | 16:02 |
| replaceafill | :D | 16:02 |
| jelkner | but it really doesn't help me | 16:02 |
| jelkner | with the problem | 16:02 |
| jelkner | since i'm still click click, clicking to see that is going on... | 16:03 |
| jelkner | the way the old cando worked was fine in this regard | 16:03 |
| jelkner | i would say we need that back | 16:03 |
| jelkner | a single scrollable page with all skills open | 16:03 |
| jelkner | not collapsed | 16:03 |
| jelkner | or at least the ability to open collapsed groups | 16:04 |
| jelkner | more than one | 16:04 |
| jelkner | so that the open group doesn't collapse when you open another one | 16:04 |
| jelkner | otherwise, the system keeps hiding from me what i want to see | 16:04 |
| jelkner | this is where being an idiot user comes in most handy ;-) | 16:05 |
| replaceafill | :D | 16:05 |
| jelkner | i can't remember from one minute to the next which group a skill is in | 16:05 |
| jelkner | so when it collapses, i forget :-( | 16:05 |
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| dreich | replaceafill, is there an easy way to find out if a person is an instructor by username? | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | dreich, no | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | you need to check the instructor_sections | 16:50 |
| dreich | huh | 16:51 |
| dreich | that's not so much fun | 16:51 |
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| dreich | replaceafill, I'm still working on the same thing | 17:47 |
| dreich | and I can't find any better option than writing a new schooltool xmlrpc method to check if a user is an instructor or not | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | what would your method do? | 17:48 |
| replaceafill | to know if the person is an instructor? | 17:48 |
| dreich | call getPersonInfo | 17:49 |
| dreich | and then see if instructor_sections is not empty | 17:50 |
| replaceafill | that's what i said, isn't? | 17:50 |
| dreich | pretty much :P | 17:50 |
| dreich | it just took me a while to get that you meant through schooltool | 17:51 |
| dreich | because I can't just call get_user_info straight, it does an auth thing that fails | 17:51 |
| replaceafill | you need to understand that pyquiz follows ST about security | 17:52 |
| replaceafill | in ST you can't be checking other's people info | 17:52 |
| replaceafill | if you're not authorized to do so | 17:52 |
| dreich | can I even not check whether or not they're instructors? | 17:52 |
| replaceafill | so the question becomes: do you need to know if the "current" user is an instructor? | 17:52 |
| dreich | no, I need to look up by username | 17:53 |
| replaceafill | why? | 17:53 |
| replaceafill | for the sharing stuff? | 17:53 |
| dreich | exactly | 17:53 |
| dreich | i need a list of people who can be shared with | 17:53 |
| dreich | I could list everyone, but we don't want students being shared quizzes accidentally, and that makes the interface messy | 17:53 |
| replaceafill | from ST security POV teachers should only be allowed to share quizzes with other teachers in the same section | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | unless the ST security settings are modified | 17:55 |
| dreich | ohhh | 17:55 |
| dreich | we'll want to talk to jeff about this, I didn't know that | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | again, pyquiz follows ST on this | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | if you need pyquiz to do something different you need another persistent mechanism | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | like storing user info on the pyquiz side | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | -1 on that from me | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | but it's up to the user :) | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | or, the customer ;) | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | do you have a testing instance for ST? | 17:57 |
| dreich | I'm fine with pyquiz following ST, but that looks like it might cause some problems with Joe's stuff | 17:57 |
| dreich | yeah, I do | 17:57 |
| dreich | of schooltool.pyquiz | 17:57 |
| replaceafill | as manager go to the Server tabs | 17:57 |
| replaceafill | tab* | 17:57 |
| replaceafill | then Security | 17:57 |
| replaceafill | you'll see the "default" security settings | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | some of them can be changed | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | like "everyone sees everyone" in the system | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | and so on | 17:58 |
| jelkner | -1 from customer on storing user information in pyquiz | 17:58 |
| jelkner | we aren't rewriting ST | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:59 |
| jelkner | that's what *it's* for! | 17:59 |
| replaceafill | then you have to adjust to its security settings | 17:59 |
| replaceafill | but again, it's possible to modify those | 17:59 |
| replaceafill | so... | 17:59 |
| replaceafill | it's just pretty restricted by default | 17:59 |
| replaceafill | dreich, try playing with those settings and call the xmlrpc methods | 18:00 |
| replaceafill | some authorization fails should go away | 18:00 |
| dreich | ok, i'll give that a shot, thanks! | 18:00 |
| replaceafill | (depending on what you'r trying to see) | 18:00 |
| pgulley | is there anyway to modify the security settings via xmlrpc? | 18:01 |
| replaceafill | no(t yet) :) | 18:01 |
| replaceafill | you could add those | 18:01 |
| replaceafill | if you need them | 18:01 |
| replaceafill | and have the permissions to do it | 18:02 |
| replaceafill | i mean, a teacher may not be able to do it | 18:02 |
| replaceafill | but a teacher who is also an admin would | 18:02 |
| replaceafill | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~replaceafill/schooltool/schooltool.pyquiz/view/head:/src/schooltool/pyquiz/ftests/get_user_info.txt#L140 | 18:03 |
| replaceafill | that's ST security model by default: | 18:04 |
| replaceafill | "Existing user accessed by administrator. All the sections are listed:" | 18:04 |
| replaceafill | "Existing user accessed by one of her teachers. The only sections | 18:04 |
| replaceafill | listed are the ones the teacher has access to:" | 18:04 |
| replaceafill | and so on | 18:04 |
| pgulley | right. I don't like the idea of having pyquiz functionality hinge on settings buried inside of ST, but if we had a pyquiz manager user who could fetch that information? | 18:05 |
| pgulley | its a little complecated. | 18:05 |
| pgulley | it's a lot complecated actually | 18:05 |
| replaceafill | you could allow ST admins to log in to pyquiz | 18:05 |
| replaceafill | but i think the manager should do it in ST side | 18:06 |
| replaceafill | if needed | 18:06 |
| replaceafill | of again | 18:06 |
| replaceafill | or again* | 18:06 |
| replaceafill | you design a sharing system that uses groups in ST for example | 18:06 |
| replaceafill | and you change the group security setting in ST | 18:07 |
| pgulley | but we want that information to be accessible to teachers who aren't necessarily managers. without opening up a huge hole in the security of ST. | 18:07 |
| replaceafill | pgulley, you don't open a security hole | 18:07 |
| replaceafill | it's standard functionality | 18:07 |
| pgulley | okay | 18:07 |
| replaceafill | if you want that in pyquiz, you probably want it in ST | 18:08 |
| replaceafill | i mean, if you want pyquiz teachers to see each other | 18:08 |
| replaceafill | maybe you're ok with ST teachers seeing each other too | 18:08 |
| pgulley | but then you have some functionality of pyquiz which will break if schooltool settings are changed. | 18:09 |
| replaceafill | then you disable that functionality | 18:09 |
| pgulley | fair enough | 18:09 |
| replaceafill | make it optional | 18:09 |
| replaceafill | but guys, these are just my 2 cents :) | 18:10 |
| replaceafill | this is software development | 18:10 |
| replaceafill | you can do anything you want ;) | 18:10 |
| pgulley | hahah, no I think you're right here. | 18:11 |
| replaceafill | btw | 18:11 |
| replaceafill | also consider, we have schooltool.pyquiz | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | which is an application setup | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | so it means it can have its own settings | 18:12 |
| pgulley | the alternative is incredibly hackish. This way, as long as we make it break gracefully it should be fine. | 18:12 |
| pgulley | oh true | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | like you can add a zcml file to completely modify ST behaviour | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | and then you'll be sure pyquiz have that enabled | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | all those settings you see in ST at /access_control.html | 18:13 |
| replaceafill | can be completely customized on schooltool.pyquiz | 18:13 |
| dreich | wait, though, the only relevant setting i see at /access_control is 'list of users' | 18:14 |
| replaceafill | i mention this as an alternative to "making your functionality disable on conditions" | 18:14 |
| dreich | which isn't quite what we want | 18:14 |
| pgulley | that does make it much nicer | 18:14 |
| replaceafill | dreich, see Group information | 18:14 |
| replaceafill | again, you could share quizzes with anybody in the Teachers group | 18:14 |
| dreich | ah, ok | 18:15 |
| dreich | so we'll need to write an xmlrpc method to get all the members of a given group? | 18:16 |
| replaceafill | if you go that route, yes | 18:16 |
| replaceafill | if pyquiz user is in groupFoo, then pyquiz user should be able to list all users in groupFoo | 18:17 |
| dreich | yeah | 18:17 |
| pgulley | is there a "teachers" group? | 18:17 |
| replaceafill | yes | 18:17 |
| pgulley | cool, problem solved. | 18:18 |
| replaceafill | see /groups view in ST | 18:18 |
| dreich | replaceafill, could you tell me how to use a zcml file in ST.pyquiz to let people see everyone in their group? | 19:39 |
| replaceafill | grep for "everyone_can_view_group_info" in the schooltool branch | 19:40 |
| replaceafill | you'll see the security setting | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | change it to True by default | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | in schooltool.pyquiz | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | you may need an includeOverrides directive for that | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | src/schooltool/group/security.zcml | 19:42 |
| dreich | cool | 19:42 |
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| aelkner | replaceafill, hey | 21:14 |
| replaceafill | hey aelkner | 21:14 |
| aelkner | we were supposed to be meeting? | 21:14 |
| aelkner | could you post the link to your demo instance in the meantime? | 21:15 |
| replaceafill | i think dwelsh didn't reply to our emails | 21:15 |
| replaceafill | http://69.164.203.135:6660/calendar | 21:15 |
| aelkner | i see you didn't wipe the db and load the new skills i sent | 21:16 |
| aelkner | you're waiting for welsh on that, right? | 21:16 |
| replaceafill | nope | 21:16 |
| replaceafill | not yet | 21:16 |
| replaceafill | yes | 21:16 |
| replaceafill | i don't want to get in the middle of their testing | 21:16 |
| replaceafill | i did put the new file in the vps folder | 21:17 |
| replaceafill | http://69.164.203.135/welsh_demo/4terms/ | 21:17 |
| aelkner | ah, cool, i was just about to ask that :) | 21:18 |
| replaceafill | :) | 21:18 |
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| replaceafill | aelkner, your changes in my dev sandbox: http://69.164.203.135:6662/layers | 21:45 |
| aelkner | ah, thanks | 21:54 |
| th1a | replaceafill, aelkner: Was there a meeting? | 22:27 |
| replaceafill | we're on it | 22:27 |
| th1a | This really doesn't have to be that bold. | 23:10 |
| th1a | We need to back off on the section permissions. | 23:16 |
| replaceafill | :) | 23:16 |
| th1a | aelkner: You just need to clean up the description formatting there. | 23:17 |
| aelkner | th1a, sorry, i must have missed something, what description? | 23:19 |
| th1a | In the skill. | 23:19 |
| replaceafill | the current view | 23:19 |
| th1a | Yes. | 23:19 |
| replaceafill | dwelsh is showing | 23:19 |
| * replaceafill goes to get lunch!!! | 23:39 | |
| th1a | OK. | 23:40 |
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