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| th1a | hi yvl, aelkner. | 16:32 |
|---|---|---|
| aelkner | morning | 16:32 |
| yvl | good morning | 16:32 |
| th1a | OK, so where are we with imports aelkner? | 16:35 |
| aelkner | i just pushed a slew of changes to trunk and created launchpad bugs to bo in CHANGES.txt | 16:35 |
| aelkner | so that menesis can see explanations of the many changes | 16:36 |
| aelkner | i finished adding tests for the new features, and as a last step | 16:36 |
| aelkner | changed all of the cell get calls for id fields to use the new id getter | 16:37 |
| aelkner | that rejects numeric fields, and those changes are reflected in the changed errors in the tests | 16:37 |
| aelkner | so, in short, i think that i'm done with the imports | 16:37 |
| th1a | What is the text for that error? | 16:38 |
| aelkner | numeric ids must be formatted as text, not numeric: | 16:38 |
| th1a | Uh... | 16:38 |
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| th1a | Numeric ids must not be numeric? | 16:39 |
| aelkner | must not be formatted numeric | 16:39 |
| aelkner | numbers formatted as text are ok | 16:39 |
| th1a | How about "ID cells must be formatted as text in the spreadsheet" | 16:41 |
| aelkner | ok, i can make that change | 16:41 |
| th1a | You can reformat cells in LibreOffice by right clicking, correct? | 16:41 |
| th1a | Anyone know how Excel works? | 16:41 |
| yvl | nowadays... no :) | 16:42 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:42 |
| th1a | Anyhow. | 16:43 |
| th1a | Did you go over the sheets with welsh? | 16:43 |
| aelkner | which sheets? | 16:44 |
| th1a | I guess the ones you just did aren't really relevant to him. | 16:45 |
| aelkner | that's right, they are for other users | 16:45 |
| th1a | OK, so we should go over them after the rest of this. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Meeting. | 16:45 |
| aelkner | sure, and i need some new tasks | 16:45 |
| th1a | Yes... | 16:46 |
| th1a | How do you feel about working on these search views? | 16:47 |
| aelkner | sure | 16:48 |
| th1a | OK, looking back at the planner now... | 16:48 |
| th1a | We've got: | 16:49 |
| th1a | CanDo > Gradebook interop, which we do need to review. | 16:49 |
| th1a | Skill equivalence view, which I don't want to leap into now at all. | 16:49 |
| th1a | Joe support, which I don't want to think about yet. | 16:49 |
| th1a | Do we have course projects yet? | 16:50 |
| *** ignas__ is now known as ignas | 16:50 | |
| th1a | We need some more work on skills document browsing and those skills views. | 16:50 |
| aelkner | i'd ask douglas about course projects i think since he has been doing cando gradebook projects | 16:51 |
| th1a | I don't think we've done those yet. | 16:51 |
| aelkner | but yes, browsing/searching the skills is a good task for me i think | 16:51 |
| th1a | We might want to do a little cleanup on the various node/skill and document views first. | 16:52 |
| th1a | That would be relatively simple. | 16:52 |
| th1a | OK aelkner, let's move onto yvl for now and come back to you. | 16:53 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 16:53 |
| th1a | yvl? | 16:53 |
| yvl | ok | 16:53 |
| yvl | so my report will be short | 16:53 |
| yvl | simple tasks and task scheduling work now | 16:54 |
| yvl | I ran changing school title randomly every second, seemt to work nicely | 16:54 |
| yvl | then again, I'll need to play with more production-like scenarios | 16:55 |
| yvl | currently it consumes some 450 MB of RAM just to start up | 16:55 |
| yvl | with a test environment of our sample data | 16:56 |
| yvl | but that can be worked out | 16:56 |
| th1a | Currently meaning after your initial changes> | 16:56 |
| th1a | ? | 16:56 |
| th1a | I should know what it uses in the release version. | 16:57 |
| yvl | + 450 MB just to have long running processes | 16:57 |
| th1a | lol | 16:57 |
| th1a | Where is it going? | 16:57 |
| yvl | uh? | 16:58 |
| yvl | if you mean what is using up memory, it's basically 4 zope processes | 16:59 |
| yvl | I'm thinking about one of these options: | 17:00 |
| th1a | How's that different from now? Threads vs. processes? | 17:00 |
| yvl | a short answer is yes | 17:01 |
| th1a | OK, what are the options? | 17:01 |
| yvl | so I'll use either a single threaded process, or configure to have | 17:02 |
| yvl | a single process for zope-related things | 17:02 |
| yvl | and a multi-process queue for other stuff, like sending emails and such | 17:03 |
| yvl | but then again, it might be worth using, say, greenlets | 17:03 |
| yvl | I'm actually looking into this now, so no verdict yet | 17:04 |
| yvl | but yes, there are many options :) | 17:04 |
| yvl | so that's good news | 17:04 |
| th1a | I would think a single zope process will be sufficient for the default case. | 17:04 |
| yvl | right | 17:04 |
| yvl | but still, threaded | 17:05 |
| yvl | or greenlets | 17:05 |
| yvl | or something | 17:05 |
| yvl | so, I'll look a bit more into configuration | 17:06 |
| yvl | next to do - | 17:06 |
| yvl | some actual implementation and testing environment | 17:06 |
| yvl | do you have any preferences on what you'd like to be managed with a task queue? | 17:07 |
| yvl | emails? | 17:07 |
| yvl | imports? | 17:07 |
| yvl | reports? | 17:07 |
| th1a | Those things. | 17:08 |
| th1a | Imports first. | 17:08 |
| yvl | thanks | 17:08 |
| yvl | needed to pick one ;) | 17:08 |
| yvl | so, some import view | 17:08 |
| th1a | That is the biggest pain point. | 17:08 |
| * yvl agrees | 17:08 | |
| yvl | ok, thanks | 17:09 |
| yvl | oh | 17:09 |
| yvl | this Fri is bank holiday here | 17:09 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:09 |
| yvl | and I'd like to take next Thu-Fri off if it's ok | 17:09 |
| yvl | (there's an open air event here ;) ) | 17:10 |
| th1a | Sure. | 17:10 |
| yvl | thanks! | 17:10 |
| th1a | Open air concert? | 17:10 |
| th1a | Airplane race? | 17:10 |
| yvl | metal fest :D | 17:10 |
| th1a | lol | 17:11 |
| yvl | Anathema is comming, Lake of Tears also, Warbringer and many many others :) | 17:11 |
| th1a | I might have even heard of Anathema. | 17:11 |
| * yvl thought so... :) | 17:12 | |
| th1a | I remember when my friend played me an import Napalm Death ep in, oh, the summer of 1988. | 17:12 |
| th1a | We didn't think "This will spawn a long lived genre." | 17:13 |
| th1a | Although you may disagree with the lineage. | 17:13 |
| yvl | right | 17:14 |
| yvl | well, let's not get into a heated discussion | 17:14 |
| yvl | these things always lead to heated discussions :) | 17:14 |
| th1a | Perhaps you're talking about more death metal. | 17:15 |
| th1a | Less thrash. | 17:15 |
| th1a | Anyhow. ;-) | 17:15 |
| yvl | yes | 17:15 |
| th1a | I'm just killing time hoping replaceafill's internet comes up. | 17:15 |
| yvl | so anyway | 17:15 |
| yvl | Megadeth was in Lithuania recently :) | 17:15 |
| yvl | (speaking of trash metal) | 17:15 |
| yvl | is a good summer indeed | 17:16 |
| yvl | (Megadeth is Dave's band after he got kicked out of MetallicA) | 17:16 |
| th1a | Yes, I know THAT! | 17:16 |
| th1a | lol | 17:17 |
| yvl | :D | 17:17 |
| th1a | aelkner: Were we expecting replaceafill this morning? | 17:17 |
| aelkner | yeah, i think so, not welsh later today, but douglas did say he also believed we were meeting this morning | 17:18 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:18 |
| th1a | We'll just assume his internet is down. | 17:19 |
| th1a | All right, I'll drop the bag of gravel and aelkner and I will continue. | 17:19 |
| th1a | Have a good week and weekend yvl. | 17:19 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:19 | |
| yvl | thanks | 17:19 |
| yvl | good luck guys! | 17:19 |
| aelkner | thanks yvl, cya monday | 17:20 |
| th1a | OK... can we call up an instance aelkner? | 17:21 |
| aelkner | well, my demo instance is missing the new view that douglas made with you last week | 17:22 |
| th1a | That's ok. | 17:22 |
| aelkner | otherwise, don't you have a bookmark to my demo instance by now? | 17:23 |
| th1a | No. | 17:23 |
| aelkner | it tends to always be running unless something strange is happening on the virtual server | 17:23 |
| aelkner | http://69.164.203.135:36660/manage | 17:24 |
| aelkner | or i'm loading code changes | 17:24 |
| th1a | OK, so top level changes first. | 17:24 |
| aelkner | shoot | 17:24 |
| th1a | There's really no reason for skills, etc., to be under years at all, right? | 17:25 |
| aelkner | the three links, Skills, Layers and Nodes shouldn't go on the year tab because they are extra-year data | 17:26 |
| aelkner | as is the document | 17:26 |
| aelkner | but that's already in the menu to the left | 17:26 |
| th1a | OK, so let's make a link at left that says "Skills" | 17:27 |
| th1a | And goes to a view with tertiary navigation. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | for Skils, Nodes and Layers? | 17:27 |
| th1a | Documents, Skills, Nodes, Layers | 17:27 |
| th1a | In that order. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | ah, yes, so get rid of Documents from the left, replace with Skills | 17:28 |
| aelkner | in the menu i mean by that ofc | 17:28 |
| th1a | y | 17:28 |
| aelkner | that's a good use of our flourish paradym i think | 17:29 |
| aelkner | duh, paradigm | 17:30 |
| aelkner | finally decide to look that one up :) | 17:30 |
| aelkner | anyway, that change would not require complex changes to the views | 17:31 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | so that's a relatively small task | 17:31 |
| aelkner | but anyway, it cleans up the School tab | 17:31 |
| aelkner | as you saying, 'top level first'... | 17:32 |
| th1a | There's some simple clean up to the rest of the views. | 17:33 |
| th1a | OK... first the view labeled skills is really skillsets? | 17:33 |
| th1a | Skill Sets? | 17:34 |
| aelkner | so correcting above, Documents, Skills Sets, Nodes, Layers? | 17:34 |
| th1a | Skill Sets | 17:35 |
| aelkner | right | 17:35 |
| aelkner | typo | 17:35 |
| th1a | Make sure the search in Skill Sets checks all the skill attributes in finding results. | 17:35 |
| th1a | Skill set attributes. | 17:36 |
| th1a | The skill description needs to handle html in the description. | 17:36 |
| th1a | OK, nodes. Nodes need optional labels. | 17:38 |
| th1a | So that's a data model issue. | 17:38 |
| aelkner | it would be a new field in the Node object | 17:39 |
| th1a | YEs. | 17:39 |
| aelkner | luckily, adding new fields does not require evolution | 17:39 |
| aelkner | class attributes provide the default | 17:40 |
| th1a | Also I see the description shows up as a one line entry instead of a box. | 17:40 |
| aelkner | are you searching the Nodes Container when you say that? | 17:41 |
| th1a | I'm editing a node. | 17:41 |
| th1a | (I jumped ahead) | 17:41 |
| th1a | So anyhow, the nodes table should have label/title/ layers | 17:42 |
| aelkner | regarding the description, the change you suggested with html is part | 17:42 |
| th1a | And if certain parties have 10 nodes with the same label and title that's their own damn problem. | 17:42 |
| aelkner | or changing the way it is presented, so yes, it would need to look different in view | 17:43 |
| aelkner | in the display view as well i mean | 17:43 |
| aelkner | oh wait, you had requested html for skill description | 17:44 |
| aelkner | does that apply to nodes as well? | 17:44 |
| th1a | Well, we should probably be consistent. | 17:44 |
| th1a | It is the kind of thing that doesn't seem necessary until it is. | 17:44 |
| aelkner | wait, now i'm confused | 17:44 |
| th1a | Basically, people like to use bulleted lists in these descriptions. | 17:44 |
| th1a | A lot. | 17:44 |
| th1a | So yes, make all these descriptions rich text. | 17:45 |
| aelkner | got it | 17:45 |
| th1a | We need a little formatting help in this node view. | 17:46 |
| th1a | I assume it isn't sufficiently easy to add an accordion, which would be nice here. | 17:47 |
| th1a | Or... | 17:48 |
| aelkner | adding an accordion would not be too hard, but how would that look? | 17:48 |
| aelkner | you mean Parent Nodes, Layers as accordion headers? | 17:48 |
| th1a | Just separate sections for the basic info/parents/layers. | 17:49 |
| th1a | Children | 17:49 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:49 |
| th1a | Might cut down on the visual overload. | 17:49 |
| aelkner | let's see if i can't get around to putting that together by monday meeting for you to look at | 17:50 |
| aelkner | i could just do the nodes view as a what if, prototype | 17:50 |
| aelkner | if we like, we could then do the same for the other objects | 17:51 |
| th1a | That's not worth spending hours on though. | 17:51 |
| th1a | I"m not even sure it is a good idea. | 17:51 |
| th1a | (the accordion) | 17:51 |
| aelkner | well, you have to spend the time to see what it would look like | 17:51 |
| aelkner | i don't think it would take more than a couple of hours, but that's your call | 17:51 |
| aelkner | it's just that there are other things | 17:52 |
| th1a | OK, give it a shot. | 17:52 |
| aelkner | anyway, continue | 17:52 |
| th1a | Well, I want to add more accordions anyhow other places, so getting some practice wouldn't be a bad idea. | 17:52 |
| th1a | Don't bang your head against it for hours without asking replaceafill for help though. | 17:52 |
| th1a | just a sec | 17:53 |
| aelkner | sure, i won't get bogged down without asking for help, but i think we have enough samples of accoridon | 17:54 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:54 |
| th1a | Now, skills documents still need some love. | 17:54 |
| aelkner | to interrupt a sec: | 17:55 |
| aelkner | i'm surprised you haven't mentioned the container views' tables yet | 17:55 |
| aelkner | some of these columns are not necessaily helping, right? | 17:55 |
| th1a | Nodes? | 17:55 |
| th1a | So anyhow, the nodes table should have label/title/ layers | 17:55 |
| aelkner | no parents, right | 17:56 |
| aelkner | no description either | 17:56 |
| th1a | y | 17:57 |
| aelkner | ah heck, why am i mentioning these things once at a time, what you said :) | 17:57 |
| aelkner | btw, in that order? currently title comes first | 17:57 |
| th1a | that order | 17:57 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:57 |
| aelkner | so labels are the new attribute for Node objects | 17:58 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:58 |
| aelkner | is that an optional field? | 17:58 |
| aelkner | if so, many cases will have the table with a blank first column | 17:59 |
| th1a | It is a narrow column, right? | 17:59 |
| th1a | Or have we not limited the size of labels consistently? | 18:00 |
| aelkner | all blank columns come out narrow, yes | 18:00 |
| aelkner | wait, what? | 18:00 |
| th1a | I mean, labels should be limited in size. | 18:00 |
| th1a | 5 characters. | 18:00 |
| th1a | It is kind of the idea of a label. | 18:00 |
| th1a | In general. | 18:00 |
| aelkner | i'm not sure what the use case is for node labels | 18:01 |
| aelkner | so far, our five char labels have been for the gradebook col headers | 18:01 |
| th1a | Well, basically that's the use for all these labels. | 18:02 |
| aelkner | but nodes don't go in the gradebook | 18:02 |
| th1a | That is, they are all meant to be short. | 18:03 |
| aelkner | to be col headers | 18:03 |
| aelkner | i mean in a spreadsheet generally, not just the gradebook | 18:03 |
| aelkner | i'm i guessing your meaning correctly here? | 18:03 |
| th1a | Or in a table in the nodes index, so the first column doesn't take up much space. | 18:04 |
| aelkner | but what about the purpose of the label? | 18:04 |
| aelkner | in the case of nodes i mean | 18:04 |
| th1a | It is a short identifier. | 18:05 |
| aelkner | yes, but where it is used, presented, other than the table | 18:06 |
| th1a | We need it aelkner. | 18:06 |
| th1a | It just needs to be short. | 18:06 |
| aelkner | ok, you don't have to tell me, i'll add it gladly, i was just curious | 18:07 |
| th1a | The bottom line is these things often have some kind of label in fact, so the data model should reflect that. | 18:08 |
| th1a | And they aren't useful if they are too long. | 18:08 |
| th1a | So they need to be limited. | 18:08 |
| aelkner | i can limit the edit view to five chars | 18:09 |
| th1a | That's the point. | 18:09 |
| aelkner | i would need to add a column to the import as well | 18:09 |
| th1a | y | 18:09 |
| aelkner | i could spit out an error if the cell is > 5 chars | 18:10 |
| th1a | This might be enough for you to chew on for a few days... | 18:10 |
| aelkner | or i could just truncate and not tell the user, your call | 18:10 |
| th1a | return an error | 18:10 |
| aelkner | ok, will do | 18:10 |
| th1a | We already do it in the gradebook, right? | 18:10 |
| aelkner | we don't import to the gradebook, but you're probably asking about the edit view | 18:11 |
| aelkner | i don't know, but i'll check, and if not, we'll talk about changing that | 18:11 |
| aelkner | i've been taking notes, so yes, i have plenty of things until monday | 18:11 |
| th1a | OK, we can move onto the document views if you get done too fast. ;-) | 18:12 |
| aelkner | don't worry about that, the list of tasks is pretty long already | 18:13 |
| aelkner | i's say let's look at the document views monday | 18:13 |
| th1a | kk | 18:13 |
| aelkner | so are you having a bbq or something today? | 18:15 |
| th1a | No... teachers don't really celebrate July 4th. | 18:16 |
| th1a | We stay home. | 18:16 |
| th1a | Celebrate when everyone else is at work. | 18:17 |
| th1a | ;-) | 18:17 |
| aelkner | :) | 18:17 |
| aelkner | i'm just trying to stay cool | 18:18 |
| aelkner | actually, though, it's been cooler here the last couple of days | 18:19 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 18:19 |
| aelkner | btw, douglas is meeting with welsh tomorrow afternoon, i won't be able to make it | 18:19 |
| aelkner | i will be available for friday afternnoon follow-up | 18:20 |
| aelkner | also, i'm heading down to jelkner's sunday | 18:20 |
| aelkner | i'll be at the ACC all week so i'll b able to work a little closer with welsh | 18:21 |
| th1a | OK. You guys really need to keep me in the loop about those discussions, both before and after. | 18:21 |
| th1a | Welsh does not understand the big picture, and we aren't designing something just for Virginia. | 18:22 |
| aelkner | we have the schooltool.virginia package and we made it clear that some things will go there | 18:23 |
| aelkner | but it will be a matter of figuring out at some point whether we need a special virginia skin | 18:23 |
| aelkner | to override standard views | 18:24 |
| th1a | We shouldn't need that. | 18:24 |
| aelkner | adding links to menus can be done without a skin | 18:24 |
| aelkner | well, we could always add any views (with the custom links) for virgini | 18:25 |
| aelkner | even without a skin | 18:25 |
| aelkner | we would ust not be overriding the genereal views in that case | 18:25 |
| aelkner | that's probably what you want anyway, right? | 18:25 |
| aelkner | just like the special importer, we could have a special browser for them | 18:26 |
| aelkner | skills tree or whatever | 18:26 |
| *** replaceafill has joined #schooltool | 18:26 | |
| th1a | We shouldn't need anything that special. | 18:26 |
| * th1a will be back in 5 minutes. | 18:26 | |
| aelkner | hey, someone got their internet back | 18:26 |
| * replaceafill is sick | 18:27 | |
| aelkner | ah, yes, you were yesterday, sorry you're still under the weather | 18:28 |
| * replaceafill goes to read the meetings logs | 18:28 | |
| * th1a back | 18:34 | |
| replaceafill | th1a, sorry i missed the meeting, i turned my alarm off and went back to bed, i didn't feel well | 18:37 |
| replaceafill | i'm meeting with dwelsh tomorrow to show him the new assign course skills | 18:38 |
| th1a | ok | 18:38 |
| th1a | but... | 18:38 |
| th1a | these meeting should not be scheduled without me. | 18:38 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:39 |
| th1a | What time? | 18:40 |
| replaceafill | 5 pm (your time) | 18:40 |
| th1a | Is that really the only time welsh can meet? | 18:40 |
| replaceafill | but he said he could be earlier, like 4:30 | 18:40 |
| th1a | How about later? | 18:41 |
| replaceafill | i can meet anytime | 18:41 |
| th1a | I thought he could meet in the evening? | 18:41 |
| replaceafill | he probably can | 18:43 |
| th1a | Would you like to try to arrange that? | 18:46 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:46 |
| th1a | OK, so are you pretty clear on what you're doing now? | 18:48 |
| replaceafill | yes | 18:48 |
| replaceafill | th1a, question | 19:28 |
| th1a | yes? | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | done buttons, course and term filtering in /sections, tree in person accordions | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | all those should land in trunk, right? | 19:28 |
| replaceafill | i mean, it's ok to do it now? | 19:28 |
| th1a | I think so. | 19:29 |
| replaceafill | kk | 19:29 |
| th1a | Windows prices are finally coming down: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116992&Tpk=32-116-992&nm_mc=EMC-GD070312&cm_mmc=EMC-GD070312-_-index-_-Item-_-32-116-992 | 19:47 |
| th1a | I wish they'd sell Windows 7 Gaming Edition for like, $50. | 19:49 |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 20:04 | |
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 20:56 | |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 21:03 | |
| replaceafill | aelkner, could you confirm a failure in schooltool/export/ftests/sample_data.txt", line 32 | 22:07 |
| aelkner | replaceafill, how did you catch a failure in that file? | 22:35 |
| replaceafill | running the tests | 22:35 |
| aelkner | did you did --at-level=2 | 22:36 |
| replaceafill | --all | 22:36 |
| aelkner | never heard of it | 22:36 |
| aelkner | who set that one up? | 22:36 |
| replaceafill | uh? | 22:36 |
| replaceafill | you mean who set "--all"? | 22:37 |
| aelkner | yeah, i've never heard of that one | 22:37 |
| replaceafill | it's part of the test runner options | 22:38 |
| replaceafill | --all Run tests at all levels. | 22:38 |
| aelkner | what's the command line? | 22:39 |
| replaceafill | bin/test --all | 22:40 |
| aelkner | thanks, i can reproduce it now | 22:41 |
| aelkner | i'll fix it | 22:41 |
| replaceafill | kk | 22:41 |
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