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| th1a | ignas: ayt? | 16:13 |
|---|---|---|
| ignas | yeah | 16:16 |
| ignas | hi | 16:17 |
| ignas | th1a, ^ | 16:17 |
| th1a | hi ignas. | 16:17 |
| th1a | What's up with the SchoolTool contract thing. Did your boss get my email? | 16:18 |
| ignas | yeah he got it, but then a lot of things happened and now we are kind of stalling | 16:18 |
| ignas | he suddenly had to go to US for a week | 16:18 |
| ignas | well a bit more than a week | 16:18 |
| ignas | stalling not as intentional stalling | 16:18 |
| ignas | but rather as - no idea what and where and when :) | 16:18 |
| ignas | :/ | 16:18 |
| ignas | more than :) | 16:19 |
| th1a | OK. I'm going to read that as a "not any time soon." | 16:19 |
| ignas | problem mostly is - we are very short on management bandwith now :/ so if it was something with clear requirements and well defined scope, we would just have to find the development resources | 16:22 |
| th1a | Hm. OK. Yes, I understand you are interested in general. | 16:23 |
| ignas | in general yes, just that I don't feel I can do the negotiations/finding out the details stuff my self at the moment :/ | 16:26 |
| th1a | OK. Understood. | 16:26 |
| ignas | though if I would get an email asking me how difficult something would be and how long it would take I guess my technical mind would take over :) | 16:28 |
| th1a | Well, I'm making a point of trying to put myself too much in the middle of Australia/Lithuania projects. | 16:30 |
| th1a | Complicated enough as it is. | 16:30 |
| ignas | makes sense | 16:33 |
| ignas | we got the contacts, I will try to find the time and write them a note and see what happens | 16:35 |
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| th1a | hi aelkner_. | 21:07 |
| aelkner_ | hey | 21:07 |
| aelkner_ | i've made a lot more progress than i thought i would, still working on some kinks | 21:07 |
| aelkner_ | like filtering, but i can install it to my demo instance now | 21:07 |
| th1a | OK. Cool. | 21:08 |
| aelkner_ | i was just hoping to get one last thing in, the filtering, but i would need a little longer | 21:08 |
| aelkner_ | i'm actually starting to warm up to the tables, i think the more i would work with them, then better | 21:08 |
| aelkner_ | there's some new stuff that yvl put in there that makes things more registration-driven | 21:09 |
| aelkner_ | which is nice because it's more table-driven in that way | 21:09 |
| aelkner_ | i just need to grok the whole paradigm over time, it'll take a few projects to get it down | 21:10 |
| aelkner_ | anyway | 21:10 |
| aelkner_ | you don't care that much about filtering descriptions of nodes right away, so i could install it now | 21:10 |
| th1a | I'll be happy if it works at all. | 21:12 |
| aelkner_ | i'll ping you in 10-15 mins | 21:13 |
| th1a | kk | 21:13 |
| aelkner_ | th1a, ok, i installed what i have so far, and i had to import the sample data from the stests | 21:37 |
| aelkner_ | so the skillsets are now a mix of the stest data and the demo data from last week | 21:38 |
| th1a | What's the url? | 21:38 |
| aelkner_ | but that shouldn't be a problem, just letting you know | 21:38 |
| aelkner_ | start here so you get the whole picture: | 21:39 |
| aelkner_ | http://69.164.203.135:36660/manage | 21:39 |
| aelkner_ | now, in addition to the Layers link, there is a Nodes link | 21:39 |
| aelkner_ | i fixed the Done link in the layer view, so that part works without a hitch | 21:39 |
| aelkner_ | i'm still working on getting the description instead of title to be checked in the various table classes for the Node object, which has no title | 21:40 |
| aelkner_ | unfortunately, there are a lot of places in the table classes that just assume that an object has a title | 21:40 |
| aelkner_ | i kind of wich yvl had chosen title for the Node attribute instead of description | 21:41 |
| aelkner_ | but he probably had his reasons | 21:41 |
| th1a | Node attribute? | 21:41 |
| aelkner_ | i just realized that there is a column missing from the Nodes table, skillsets | 21:41 |
| aelkner_ | Node is an object, title is the attribute that almost all of our objects have | 21:42 |
| aelkner_ | Node doesn | 21:42 |
| aelkner_ | doesn't | 21:42 |
| th1a | Doesn't at all? | 21:42 |
| aelkner_ | nope | 21:42 |
| th1a | Well, thats wrong. | 21:42 |
| aelkner_ | do Nodes need titles? | 21:42 |
| aelkner_ | do they need descriptions? | 21:43 |
| th1a | THey need id, title, description. | 21:43 |
| th1a | With description as the optional one. | 21:43 |
| aelkner_ | they don't have any of those things | 21:44 |
| aelkner_ | Skill objects have title, external_id, description, label | 21:44 |
| aelkner_ | required, retired and equivalent as well | 21:45 |
| aelkner_ | but nodes only have description, parents, layers, skillsets | 21:45 |
| aelkner_ | isn't this all the stuff that was decided at the sprint? | 21:45 |
| th1a | Oh, that particular point might not have come up, or at least only in passing. | 21:46 |
| aelkner_ | i wasn't following the discussion, and now i can't exactly follow the data model, but i can code to it :) | 21:46 |
| th1a | We would have had to have been taking detailed notes. | 21:46 |
| th1a | It shouldn't be that hard to add a couple standard attributes? | 21:46 |
| aelkner_ | yeah, but it is wise to have one person design a data model, stop in the middle and have someone else change it | 21:47 |
| aelkner_ | i think that it would help to at least understand the intent of the attributes defined | 21:47 |
| aelkner_ | perhaps we would make a mistake in changing one | 21:47 |
| aelkner_ | if we didn't properly understand why we have what we have | 21:47 |
| th1a | Well... it makes more sense than making an application that isn't designed to fit the requirements. | 21:48 |
| th1a | They're all just metadata anyhow. | 21:48 |
| aelkner_ | i can kind of tell that some of this data is meant to be hidden from the user, as metadata as you say | 21:50 |
| aelkner_ | i'm not sure how it ties together | 21:50 |
| aelkner_ | i mean, i see the attributes of the objects and the relationships set up | 21:51 |
| th1a | Isn't there an interface for a node that describes its attributes? | 21:51 |
| aelkner_ | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aelkner/schooltool/cando/view/head:/src/schooltool/cando/interfaces.py | 21:52 |
| aelkner_ | that file, and the implementation files of the classes themselves has been what i've been working from | 21:53 |
| th1a | Can't you just give it two more attributes? | 21:53 |
| th1a | Or one, really. | 21:54 |
| th1a | Well... maybe it needs a user-definable id. | 21:54 |
| th1a | User editable. | 21:54 |
| aelkner_ | the point is: you or i don't know the answer to that | 21:54 |
| aelkner_ | there is a complex set of inter-operating objects here, and we don't know why | 21:55 |
| aelkner_ | i'm not going to say that i know that we can add an attribute when i don't know what that means | 21:55 |
| th1a | They definitely need a title. | 21:55 |
| aelkner_ | why would a node need a title? | 21:55 |
| aelkner_ | where and when is this title going to be seen? | 21:56 |
| aelkner_ | aren't the titles in the skills or skillsets the one that the user see? | 21:56 |
| th1a | "Carpentry" is not a description. It is a title. | 21:56 |
| th1a | See? | 21:56 |
| aelkner_ | that's a skill, right? | 21:56 |
| th1a | It is a craft. | 21:56 |
| aelkner_ | or is it a layer? | 21:56 |
| th1a | Which is a node. | 21:56 |
| th1a | Sorry. | 21:57 |
| th1a | Carpentry = node | 21:57 |
| th1a | Craft = its layer. | 21:57 |
| th1a | "Carpentry" should be the title of the node. | 21:57 |
| aelkner_ | you're so sure that is why Node objects exist? what does the title, 'Carpentry' in the skill has to do with it? | 21:58 |
| aelkner_ | are nodes supposed to be copies of skills? | 21:59 |
| aelkner_ | that can't be because they have skillsets | 21:59 |
| aelkner_ | one node could potentially have more than one skillset | 22:00 |
| aelkner_ | each with a different title | 22:00 |
| aelkner_ | sorry that i didn't include a skillsets col in the ui yet | 22:00 |
| aelkner_ | but you see it in the interface.py file | 22:00 |
| th1a | Nodes are nodes in the hierarchy. | 22:01 |
| th1a | They explain the context of the skillsets and skills. | 22:01 |
| th1a | Generally they just have titles but also they might have descriptions. | 22:02 |
| aelkner_ | could you give me an example of two skillset titles, both pointed to by and node and what the node title would be? | 22:02 |
| th1a | A skillset is just a group of skills. | 22:03 |
| th1a | So... | 22:04 |
| th1a | In Common Core ELA, they might be: | 22:04 |
| th1a | "Key Ideas and Details" | 22:04 |
| th1a | "Craft and Structure" | 22:04 |
| th1a | and "Integration of Knowledge and Ideas" | 22:04 |
| th1a | The node above that might be "Literacy in History/Social Studies" | 22:05 |
| th1a | Look... it isn't that big of a deal. I think we decided that skills should be built around the descriptions, because they're more likely to be expressed that way. | 22:06 |
| th1a | Nodes are just more likely to be based around titles. | 22:06 |
| th1a | That's just the way these things work. | 22:06 |
| aelkner_ | so the node is for this year, the skill set is global, so the node points to one or more skillsets | 22:08 |
| aelkner_ | but, it's the node title and description that appears in the gradebook, right? | 22:08 |
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| th1a | tbh I don't think nodes appear in the gradebook at all. | 22:09 |
| aelkner_ | where would the user see the title? | 22:09 |
| th1a | If he was browsing the larger structure of the standards. | 22:10 |
| th1a | The gradebook only shows the skills and skillsets. | 22:10 |
| th1a | I don't think cando had nodes at all. | 22:10 |
| th1a | Did it know about the higher levels of the hierarchy? | 22:10 |
| th1a | I can't even remember what VA calls them. | 22:11 |
| th1a | Professions? | 22:11 |
| aelkner_ | the larger structure of the standards explains how a particular set of skillsets gets into a section's gradebook | 22:11 |
| aelkner_ | does that sound on target with what you just said about browsing them? | 22:11 |
| th1a | Pretty much. | 22:12 |
| aelkner_ | i think it's coming together for me a bit more here | 22:13 |
| aelkner_ | so the title of the node is important fr browsing this year's structure of standards | 22:13 |
| aelkner_ | and the description is still needed, right? | 22:13 |
| th1a | Nodes just tend to have titles instead of descriptions. | 22:14 |
| th1a | But they should be allowed to have descriptions. | 22:14 |
| aelkner_ | in other words, yes | 22:14 |
| aelkner_ | ok, adding the title attribute is straight-forward and highly unlikely to throw off intent of the data model | 22:15 |
| aelkner_ | i should add that definitely | 22:15 |
| aelkner_ | and the table would then have: | 22:15 |
| aelkner_ | title, desctiption, children, parents, layers and skillsets | 22:15 |
| aelkner_ | a bit crowded, but this is just the raw table that we have so far | 22:16 |
| th1a | Yes. | 22:16 |
| aelkner_ | we will be making cleaner, tree-like views soon anyway | 22:17 |
| aelkner_ | i think we will want to always keep these views as well, just the links may need to go elsewhere | 22:17 |
| th1a | Basically, yes. | 22:18 |
| aelkner_ | ok, there a lot of things i will ned to change to add the title attribute, interface, object, unit tests, import/export | 22:19 |
| aelkner_ | table views, etc. | 22:19 |
| aelkner_ | it will keep me busy | 22:19 |
| aelkner_ | plus i need to finally merge the FlatSectionsTable importer to schooltool core | 22:20 |
| aelkner_ | there are a lot of feature, like stests for schooltool importer that are in that merge | 22:20 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:20 |
| aelkner_ | i'd prefer to get that merged before soing anyting with unicode id testing | 22:20 |
| aelkner_ | remember that is really testing for broken redirects in view classes, so it's not the same project anyway | 22:21 |
| aelkner_ | anyway, i think we should wait until monday to start discussing the tree views, ok? | 22:22 |
| th1a | OK, but use non-ASCII in all tests anyhow, ok? | 22:22 |
| aelkner_ | going forward, sure | 22:22 |
| th1a | kk | 22:22 |
| aelkner_ | ok, good meeting | 22:23 |
| th1a | Thanks aelkner_. | 22:23 |
| aelkner_ | i think that now that you've seen the data more, you were in a position to explain what it was for :) | 22:23 |
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