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* th1a runs for coffee... | 16:29 | |
th1a | hi yvl, menesis, aelkner, replaceafill. | 16:31 |
---|---|---|
yvl | hey guys | 16:31 |
yvl | oh right! | 16:31 |
yvl | coffee! :) | 16:31 |
replaceafill | good morning/afternoon | 16:31 |
aelkner | morning | 16:31 |
th1a | Agh. I just got April Fool-ed! | 16:32 |
th1a | It was a pretty subtle one... http://www.olpcnews.com/use_cases/education/olpc_announces_its_2012_olpc_teacher_corps_program.html | 16:32 |
th1a | Definitely an inside joke. | 16:32 |
menesis | hi | 16:32 |
th1a | Would have been great for us though. | 16:32 |
th1a | OK, I have a fe things. | 16:34 |
th1a | few | 16:34 |
th1a | I need some i18n screenshots for schooltool.org. | 16:34 |
th1a | For the panel slider thing. | 16:34 |
th1a | I'd like a Spanish gradebook shot -- replaceafill. | 16:34 |
replaceafill | sure | 16:35 |
replaceafill | new gradebook or trunk? | 16:35 |
th1a | And a Lithuanian journal shot -- yvl. | 16:35 |
th1a | Current release. | 16:35 |
replaceafill | kk | 16:35 |
th1a | You can make it look the same overall, or change it a little if you're inspired. | 16:35 |
th1a | Also, appropriate names for the language, please. | 16:36 |
th1a | Nothing jarring to the native speaker. | 16:36 |
th1a | No Peg Jourgenson. ;-) | 16:36 |
replaceafill | :D | 16:37 |
th1a | I'd like this by Wednesday, please. | 16:37 |
th1a | I have to get hold of aks. | 16:37 |
th1a | Or if anyone else has an idea for a good non-Latin example. | 16:38 |
th1a | None of us knows Arabic, right? | 16:38 |
th1a | Mandarin? | 16:38 |
th1a | Khmer? | 16:38 |
th1a | Moving on... | 16:39 |
yvl | sorry, no :) | 16:39 |
yvl | will send by Wed | 16:39 |
th1a | I ended up spending some time last week trying to figure out how to update our contributor agreements, going back and forth with Mark a bit. | 16:39 |
th1a | Canonical actually uses this: http://www.harmonyagreements.org/index.html | 16:40 |
th1a | (which seems like something Mark probably funded at some point... ) | 16:40 |
th1a | So anyhow, I'm going to have to finalize that so I can send something to intelli. | 16:41 |
th1a | (and Critical Links) | 16:41 |
th1a | Also, I'm taking Friday off. | 16:42 |
th1a | OK, yvl? | 16:42 |
yvl | took last Fri off, also half of Thu | 16:42 |
yvl | really needed that | 16:43 |
yvl | now back in business, working on model importer | 16:43 |
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yvl | if all goes well, replaceafill should be able to start working on | 16:43 |
yvl | skills gradebook (not the projects one) by the end of this week | 16:44 |
yvl | he kind of can start doing that now, but with importer and some views it will be easier | 16:44 |
replaceafill | definitely | 16:45 |
replaceafill | i can polish what i have in the meantime | 16:45 |
yvl | (like linking model nodes to the course) | 16:45 |
th1a | Lets go over that distinction because in chatting with replaceafill I wasn't sure if I followed. | 16:45 |
th1a | We'll have skills connected to courses (as CanDo does now) | 16:45 |
th1a | OR | 16:45 |
th1a | AND | 16:46 |
th1a | Course (and section) projects? | 16:46 |
yvl | skills connected to courses | 16:46 |
yvl | replaceafill is doing section projects | 16:46 |
yvl | course projects are TODO | 16:46 |
yvl | there's some meat on DM side for them | 16:47 |
yvl | but the whole logic is in the views | 16:47 |
th1a | I don't think course projects are required. | 16:47 |
th1a | That is REQUIRED. | 16:47 |
yvl | we can postpone implementing them | 16:48 |
yvl | kind of seemed reasonable, keeping course worksheets in mind | 16:48 |
th1a | It sounds reasonable, but the aren't a Virginia requirement at this point, right? | 16:49 |
yvl | I think not | 16:49 |
th1a | Yes. | 16:49 |
th1a | OK. | 16:51 |
th1a | So I think we're fine... | 16:51 |
th1a | I just wanted to make sure we weren't thinking in different directions. | 16:52 |
th1a | OK. Anything else yvl? | 16:52 |
yvl | ah, no | 16:52 |
* yvl done | 16:52 | |
th1a | Thanks. | 16:52 |
th1a | replaceafill? | 16:52 |
replaceafill | ok | 16:53 |
replaceafill | http://69.164.203.135:6662/schoolyears/2011-2012/2012-spring/sections/art_a_2012-spring_teacher004_000/projects/Attendance%20%26%20Safety/gradebook | 16:53 |
replaceafill | teacher004 | 16:53 |
replaceafill | i inserted a CanDo tab | 16:54 |
replaceafill | that takes you to the cando projects gradebook (for now) | 16:54 |
replaceafill | it should take you to the skills gradebook | 16:54 |
replaceafill | and i created a few projects | 16:54 |
replaceafill | to simulate skill sets | 16:54 |
replaceafill | made a little change for the column labels | 16:54 |
replaceafill | i used the external_id to store the "local" competency id | 16:55 |
replaceafill | i still think we need a label attribute in skills | 16:55 |
replaceafill | or maybe that can go in the virginia customization... | 16:55 |
th1a | I'm not sure what you mean. | 16:56 |
th1a | label as opposed to what? | 16:56 |
replaceafill | skills don't have labels in the current data model | 16:56 |
th1a | What do they have? | 16:57 |
replaceafill | title, required (boolean), external_id | 16:57 |
th1a | They don't have descriptions? | 16:57 |
replaceafill | i don't think they do | 16:57 |
replaceafill | right yvl? | 16:57 |
th1a | What's the difference between a title and a label? | 16:58 |
yvl | true | 16:58 |
yvl | title - full description | 16:58 |
replaceafill | th1a, for gradebook activities | 16:58 |
replaceafill | yes | 16:58 |
yvl | label - label in gradebook | 16:58 |
replaceafill | the 001 you see at the top | 16:58 |
th1a | Short title? | 16:58 |
replaceafill | should be the label | 16:58 |
replaceafill | hhmm yes | 16:58 |
yvl | abbreviation ;) | 16:58 |
th1a | OK. | 16:59 |
replaceafill | the gradebook calls it labels :) | 16:59 |
th1a | Definitely skills need descriptions. | 16:59 |
th1a | Long strings. | 16:59 |
aelkner | yes, we added the label a while ago to allow the user to override the abreviation | 16:59 |
th1a | VA competencies don't actually have them, as far as I know. | 16:59 |
th1a | But it has to be an option. | 16:59 |
aelkner | 001 could be used as the label, right? | 17:00 |
aelkner | what is that called? | 17:00 |
th1a | Label overrides abbreviation created by auto-truncating. | 17:00 |
aelkner | right | 17:00 |
replaceafill | th1a, correct | 17:00 |
th1a | Yes, give them a label attribute. | 17:00 |
replaceafill | and a description, right? | 17:00 |
th1a | And the label can be assigned however the user wants. | 17:00 |
replaceafill | kk | 17:00 |
th1a | Add label and description to the data model. | 17:00 |
replaceafill | kk | 17:01 |
replaceafill | also | 17:01 |
th1a | Who is doing that? | 17:01 |
replaceafill | in the current cando gradebook | 17:01 |
replaceafill | required competencies are color coded | 17:01 |
replaceafill | i need to do that, but i don't know if marking the "label" is enough | 17:01 |
replaceafill | i mean, changing the color of the link | 17:01 |
replaceafill | i'll do it first and then i'll ask for feedback from you | 17:02 |
replaceafill | so you can "see" what i mean :) | 17:02 |
replaceafill | you can also see that with some skill sets/projects the tertiary navigation becomes several lines | 17:02 |
replaceafill | so i'd like to work on that this week too | 17:02 |
replaceafill | finding a way to make it horizontally scrollable instead | 17:03 |
th1a | Yeah. | 17:03 |
replaceafill | maybe putting left/right arrows in the borders | 17:03 |
replaceafill | of the tertiary nav | 17:03 |
th1a | Also I'd like to get the "hover box" implemented sooner rather than later. | 17:03 |
replaceafill | th1a, ah ok | 17:03 |
replaceafill | yes | 17:03 |
th1a | There is plenty you can do without getting into more of the data model. | 17:03 |
replaceafill | definitely | 17:03 |
replaceafill | i just had a question for yvl | 17:04 |
replaceafill | ah btw | 17:04 |
replaceafill | the selectors still dont work | 17:04 |
replaceafill | i found that the selectors logic is doing a lot of unnecessary work | 17:04 |
replaceafill | like calculating the section, term, year every time you visit a worksheet | 17:04 |
replaceafill | so i started writing a test before changing that in the gradebook | 17:04 |
replaceafill | (so i don't mess it) | 17:05 |
replaceafill | yv, my question :) | 17:05 |
replaceafill | i saw you introduced the GenericWorksheet class | 17:05 |
replaceafill | to the gradebook | 17:05 |
replaceafill | at first i didn't understand where that came from in your cando branch :) | 17:05 |
yvl | well | 17:06 |
replaceafill | any reason for the new class? can't we just use the Worksheet class? | 17:06 |
yvl | that's why I took some days off | 17:06 |
yvl | I managed to nuke that revision before ;) | 17:06 |
replaceafill | to think about worksheets? :D | 17:06 |
yvl | so I was left with the code that uses it, and no trace of GenericWorksheet | 17:06 |
replaceafill | right | 17:07 |
yvl | well, worksheets (the activity worksheets) | 17:07 |
yvl | have category weights | 17:07 |
yvl | and averaging | 17:07 |
yvl | that does not necessarily apply in the same way to skills | 17:08 |
replaceafill | ah, i think i got you | 17:08 |
yvl | and projects | 17:08 |
replaceafill | yes | 17:08 |
replaceafill | is it ok, if i continue to work on the prototype using Worksheet, and make the change later? | 17:08 |
yvl | also - linked column activities | 17:08 |
replaceafill | since the gradebook depends on it | 17:08 |
yvl | ok | 17:08 |
replaceafill | i'd like to do those kind of changes until i have enough tests | 17:08 |
replaceafill | so i'm sure i don't break anything | 17:09 |
* replaceafill checks his notes for more questions... | 17:09 | |
replaceafill | nope | 17:09 |
replaceafill | th1a, that's it from me | 17:09 |
th1a | OK. Good work. Don't nuke that example, I'm going to have the VA people look at it just to reassure them that we're moving along... | 17:11 |
replaceafill | th1a, kk | 17:11 |
th1a | OK, aelkner? | 17:11 |
aelkner | ok, so i got the flat sections table import to work as we had discussed Firday | 17:12 |
aelkner | though i realized that we had left a couple things out of our discussion | 17:12 |
aelkner | like section linkage and timetables | 17:12 |
aelkner | let's get to those in a second | 17:12 |
aelkner | first, i want you to look at the xls file i created for testing what i have | 17:13 |
aelkner | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aelkner/schooltool/flourish/view/head:/src/schooltool/export/ftests/flat_sections_table.xls | 17:13 |
aelkner | hit the download file lnk at the right to get the file | 17:13 |
aelkner | if you go to the FlatSectionsTable sheet, you'll see the import for the tests | 17:14 |
th1a | Take a look at that replaceafill & yvl. | 17:14 |
yvl | looking | 17:14 |
* replaceafill too | 17:15 | |
th1a | Seems fine to me. | 17:16 |
aelkner | so, what's missing is a column, that we could have after Section Id called link? | 17:17 |
aelkner | in the current Sections... sheets, having a yes there means: | 17:17 |
aelkner | link this section to any section in previous or next term with same id | 17:17 |
aelkner | i was wondering if we could reconsider that option and make it always link same ids across terms | 17:18 |
aelkner | it's just and idea | 17:18 |
aelkner | i mean, why have the same id in two different terms if you don't want to link? | 17:18 |
th1a | I was leaning in the other direction -- making it explicit. | 17:18 |
aelkner | ok, explicit is fine, that's what you thought last time | 17:18 |
th1a | You never know... | 17:18 |
th1a | The only problem is then you need like three more columns | 17:19 |
th1a | year | term | id | right? | 17:19 |
aelkner | no, it's not so bad | 17:19 |
aelkner | just a yes or blank for no | 17:19 |
th1a | Presumably this is being generated somehow anyhow. | 17:19 |
th1a | No... | 17:19 |
aelkner | using the same logic as the current Sections sheets | 17:20 |
th1a | I'm saying that I think it should be explicit. | 17:20 |
th1a | I mean, I don't feel that strongly about it but... | 17:20 |
th1a | I guess it has to be the same year. | 17:20 |
th1a | So you don't need to specify that. | 17:21 |
aelkner | keep in mind what we decided last time | 17:21 |
aelkner | we didn't specify the year | 17:21 |
aelkner | but we also didn't specify the term either | 17:21 |
th1a | You can't link to a different year. | 17:21 |
th1a | aelkner: We can change our mind. | 17:21 |
aelkner | true | 17:21 |
th1a | ;-) | 17:22 |
aelkner | but we shouldn't just throw away what we decided before for no reason | 17:22 |
aelkner | we went through the trouble of deciding what we decided for a reason i think | 17:22 |
aelkner | it gets really messy for a user to specify what to link to | 17:22 |
th1a | Well, one reason to change is your example, where art_a has different ID's in different terms. | 17:23 |
aelkner | also, i don't think it is possible to link to a non-consecutive term | 17:23 |
th1a | Well, we would not do that then. | 17:23 |
aelkner | so that's why we said that it would not make sense to make the user specify it | 17:23 |
th1a | It is just that they may have some other system of determining ID's. | 17:24 |
th1a | I'm not sure we should depend on that convention. | 17:24 |
th1a | I don't think it is significantly more complicated one way or another, and I prefer explicit in general. | 17:24 |
aelkner | we could add two columns, term and id | 17:25 |
th1a | Yes. | 17:25 |
aelkner | wait | 17:25 |
th1a | linked section | linked section's term | 17:25 |
aelkner | there are two lnks | 17:25 |
aelkner | previous term, next term | 17:26 |
th1a | Oh, right. | 17:26 |
th1a | Yes, just two columns. | 17:26 |
th1a | term implied. | 17:26 |
aelkner | Link previous id | Link next id | 17:26 |
th1a | Probably the linking has to happen after everything is created. | 17:26 |
th1a | Yes, that 's pretty straightforward. Definitely better. | 17:27 |
th1a | Good! | 17:27 |
aelkner | regarding the timing as you indicated | 17:27 |
aelkner | the current sections sheets logic doesn't have that problem | 17:28 |
aelkner | because it links based on same id, so the id that doesn't exist yet in the next term will when it gets to that section | 17:29 |
aelkner | and then the linkage to the previous solves that problem | 17:29 |
aelkner | but i guess i'll have to do the two-pass logic to do it more flexibly | 17:29 |
aelkner | that's what i'll do then | 17:29 |
th1a | Well, you still know what the ID should be, so you could continue to do it the current way. | 17:30 |
th1a | If you wanted to. | 17:30 |
aelkner | but the flexibility idea does sound correct considering the export will need to produce it | 17:30 |
th1a | I'd prefer to check to make sure the section actually exists before linking to it. | 17:30 |
aelkner | i'll work that out with a second pass through the data | 17:31 |
aelkner | it's a but trickier, but doable | 17:31 |
th1a | It's not that much trickier. ;-) | 17:32 |
th1a | And seems more reliable. | 17:32 |
th1a | Can we issue warnings on import other than errors. | 17:33 |
aelkner | well, we've never needed to do two passes though the data in our xls imports, so it is a bit tricker | 17:33 |
th1a | Like missing linked sections without bombing out of the whole import. | 17:33 |
aelkner | not really | 17:33 |
aelkner | i mean, we could | 17:33 |
aelkner | but that would be a big change to the whole importing logic | 17:33 |
aelkner | right now, if there is an error, it rewinds the updates to the db | 17:34 |
aelkner | using the zodb checkpoint | 17:34 |
aelkner | i suppose we could add warnings | 17:34 |
aelkner | which wouldn't do the same thing, if no errors, but warnings, still keep updates | 17:34 |
aelkner | i just don't know if i'd recommend that | 17:34 |
th1a | It is a bit of a toss-up with linked sections. | 17:35 |
th1a | I guess for now abort if you try to link to things that don't exist. | 17:35 |
aelkner | that would free up a lot of time to complete other features | 17:35 |
aelkner | i mean, a bad id is a bad id anyway | 17:36 |
aelkner | why not have it be an error and have them fix it | 17:36 |
aelkner | anyway, i guess we agree | 17:36 |
aelkner | regarding timetables, we could add four columns at the end | 17:36 |
th1a | That's fine. Although I don't see how making a list of warning strings would be that difficult. | 17:36 |
th1a | Anyhow. | 17:37 |
th1a | What else? | 17:37 |
aelkner | Timetable, Day, Period ID, Location ID | 17:37 |
th1a | Yes. | 17:37 |
aelkner | the first is the schema id, only specified in the first row of the section | 17:37 |
aelkner | the other three will appear in the first and subsequent rows until the days run out | 17:38 |
th1a | You may have multiple periods per day. | 17:38 |
th1a | (just a reminder) | 17:38 |
aelkner | i believe that s o problem, it's the day, period pair that is unique | 17:39 |
aelkner | but whatever the current sections sheet can handle, the new one should handle the same | 17:39 |
aelkner | no problem is what i meant to say two lines ago | 17:40 |
aelkner | so, i'll add the six columns we discussed, prev link, next link after section id and timetable, day, period, location id at the end | 17:41 |
th1a | Should students be at the far right or keep them further left so they're easier to see? | 17:42 |
aelkner | the keys always need to go to the left | 17:42 |
aelkner | we could put the linkage columns at the end, after resources | 17:43 |
th1a | It is all convention anyhow. | 17:43 |
th1a | OK. | 17:43 |
aelkner | but the keys need to go to the left to allow the user to understand the implications of their choices | 17:43 |
th1a | Do what you think is best. | 17:44 |
aelkner | ok, i'll put all six columns at the end | 17:44 |
aelkner | they are special cases anyway | 17:44 |
aelkner | anyway, that's it for me | 17:45 |
th1a | OK, so what's your guess for finishing this? | 17:46 |
aelkner | i'm not sure until i embark on the two-pass logic which i will do directly | 17:48 |
aelkner | i still need to write the corresponding export | 17:48 |
th1a | OK. Getting it done this week would keep us on schedule. | 17:49 |
aelkner | and make the changes to the course import to add the two attributes we discuees | 17:49 |
aelkner | i think this week would be enough | 17:49 |
th1a | OK, shoot for that. | 17:49 |
th1a | Thanks aelkner. | 17:49 |
th1a | menesis? | 17:49 |
menesis | I worked on Philippines project | 17:50 |
menesis | doing that, I found two bugs | 17:50 |
menesis | with intervention catalog not being deleted | 17:51 |
menesis | fixed that | 17:51 |
menesis | another was noticed by them testing on Lucid | 17:51 |
menesis | schooltool 2.0 won't start at all | 17:51 |
menesis | have to install zope.testbrowser (and zope.app.testing I think) manually | 17:52 |
th1a | This is why we don't backport releases generally. | 17:52 |
menesis | because of recent stesting extensions | 17:52 |
menesis | no, wait, this was introduced in last release | 17:52 |
menesis | for example, | 17:53 |
menesis | src/schooltool/group/__init__.py | 17:53 |
menesis | import stesting | 17:53 |
menesis | that in turns needs testbrowser, zope.app.testing, selenium, etc. | 17:54 |
menesis | why is test setup code in __init__.py? | 17:54 |
menesis | yvl? | 17:54 |
yvl | umm | 17:54 |
replaceafill | fwiw, we already had test setup code in some packages | 17:55 |
replaceafill | for the old tests | 17:55 |
menesis | I know | 17:55 |
yvl | that was a whoopsy on my part | 17:55 |
replaceafill | :| | 17:55 |
yvl | apologies | 17:55 |
replaceafill | a whoopsy i copied a lot :( | 17:55 |
yvl | those are for registering selenium ui extensions | 17:55 |
yvl | when the package is included | 17:55 |
menesis | if it was easy to solve I would have done that myself.. | 17:56 |
menesis | this way test setup is called automatically | 17:56 |
yvl | how pressing is to fix that ATM? | 17:56 |
menesis | this adds several dependencies to runtime | 17:57 |
yvl | I understand | 17:57 |
yvl | but when do you need it fixed, latest | 17:57 |
yvl | apart from that it would be good if it was fixed yesterday ;) | 17:57 |
yvl | hmm | 17:58 |
yvl | I'll fix it tomorrow then | 17:58 |
menesis | in next release | 17:58 |
menesis | this is a problem only for lucid backport at the moment | 17:59 |
th1a | Yeah, it needs to be fixed. | 17:59 |
menesis | but I fixed zc.table dependencies and can break your sandboxes as well :p | 17:59 |
yvl | sandboxes are made to be broken :) | 18:00 |
menesis | ok | 18:01 |
menesis | so if it is possible do it in a different way | 18:01 |
menesis | other than that | 18:02 |
menesis | don't think there's anything else not about philippines, and in that project more talks than code so far | 18:02 |
menesis | from our talks today I'll most likely end up not using journal for day attendance at all. | 18:03 |
th1a | Oh... | 18:03 |
th1a | I guess that makes sense. | 18:04 |
th1a | Good to know. | 18:05 |
menesis | one thing that is in the requirements | 18:05 |
menesis | is school logo | 18:05 |
th1a | There is not much point in hacking the journal system if you aren't really... using the journal. | 18:05 |
menesis | and old feature request. | 18:05 |
menesis | https://bugs.launchpad.net/schooltool/+bug/314151 | 18:05 |
th1a | Yeah, it would be nice if they paid for that. ;-) | 18:05 |
menesis | heh | 18:06 |
th1a | That's what happens when you need something QUICK. | 18:06 |
menesis | no sure where to display it | 18:07 |
menesis | maybe will just put a resource and display it only on the custom entrance screen | 18:07 |
th1a | Realistically you probably want the school name and logo where the schooltool name and logo are at top right. | 18:08 |
menesis | yes.. but it has teal background | 18:09 |
th1a | People are going to want to change that too. | 18:09 |
th1a | It just hasn't been a priority up to this point. | 18:10 |
menesis | schooltool logo was also supposed to be on white background :) | 18:10 |
menesis | it is not high priority for me | 18:10 |
th1a | intelli has bigger problems to worry about in the short term. ;-) | 18:11 |
menesis | true | 18:11 |
th1a | Keep in mind that a separate day attendance system is something we'd probably end up needing anyhow. | 18:11 |
th1a | So it still will probably be something we'll want in core. | 18:11 |
th1a | The hook between journal and day attendance would just be allowing the section attendance during a "homeroom" period to trigger the day attendance setting. | 18:12 |
menesis | true | 18:12 |
yvl | +1 | 18:13 |
th1a | OK. Cool. | 18:13 |
th1a | Anything else? | 18:13 |
menesis | good idea | 18:13 |
menesis | no, that's it | 18:13 |
th1a | OK. Thanks menesis. | 18:14 |
th1a | Thanks guys. | 18:14 |
aelkner | are we doing invoices this week? | 18:14 |
th1a | Send me your invoices. | 18:14 |
th1a | I probably won't send them until next week though. | 18:14 |
th1a | Have a great week. Catch you Wednesday. | 18:15 |
* th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 18:15 | |
aelkner | cya guys wed | 18:15 |
yvl | Thanks guys! See you Wed :) | 18:15 |
replaceafill | thanks everybody | 18:15 |
* replaceafill goes to get breakfast | 18:22 | |
replaceafill | th1a, zyt? | 20:35 |
* th1a is with Julia at the potty... | 20:35 | |
replaceafill | :| | 20:36 |
replaceafill | just wanted to ask you, when do you plan to send virginia the prototype preview? | 20:36 |
replaceafill | it's just that i'm setting a better demo, using the ACC data | 20:36 |
replaceafill | for courses and sections | 20:36 |
replaceafill | i | 20:36 |
replaceafill | (that last "i" was an accident btw) :) | 20:37 |
th1a | When you are ready. | 20:37 |
th1a | I'll wait. | 20:38 |
replaceafill | cool, i'll ping you when i have it ready online | 20:38 |
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