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| th1a | hi replaceafill, aelkner, yvl, menesis. | 16:31 |
|---|---|---|
| replaceafill | good morning/afternoon | 16:31 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:32 |
| th1a | hello lithuania... | 16:34 |
| yvl | hey guys :) | 16:35 |
| th1a | hey. | 16:35 |
| menesis | hello america | 16:35 |
| menesis | s | 16:35 |
| th1a | Would you like to start us off yvl? | 16:35 |
| yvl | ok | 16:35 |
| yvl | getting sick set me back a bit | 16:35 |
| yvl | I only put ~2 days of work at ajaxification | 16:35 |
| yvl | so... there's some good news and some bad news :) | 16:36 |
| yvl | good news is that I really like the way it's turning out | 16:36 |
| yvl | bad news it's not finished yet | 16:36 |
| th1a | Is there a data model problem? | 16:36 |
| yvl | no | 16:36 |
| th1a | That's a little joke between aelkner and I. | 16:36 |
| yvl | ah :D | 16:36 |
| yvl | right | 16:36 |
| yvl | The ID Discussion :D | 16:36 |
| th1a | I told him to stop saying that because it makes the problem sound much worse than it is. | 16:37 |
| th1a | Well, unless there is REALLY a data model problem. | 16:37 |
| yvl | I actually put some refactoring in that was long overdue | 16:37 |
| aelkner | data model solution :) | 16:37 |
| yvl | it was just too low hanging fruit to postpone | 16:37 |
| th1a | Yes, I suggested he use "data model opportunity" in the future. | 16:37 |
| yvl | :) | 16:38 |
| th1a | yvl: Now is the time to do that. | 16:38 |
| yvl | that's what I thought | 16:38 |
| yvl | all in all, I'll have some shininess to show on Monday | 16:38 |
| th1a | As long as it works soonish I'm happy. | 16:38 |
| yvl | it will | 16:38 |
| th1a | Cool. | 16:39 |
| th1a | Thanks yvl. | 16:39 |
| yvl | and it will also lay some groundwork for future ajaxification | 16:39 |
| yvl | of other stuff | 16:39 |
| th1a | Good. | 16:39 |
| * yvl done now. | 16:39 | |
| th1a | Thanks! | 16:40 |
| th1a | menesis? | 16:40 |
| menesis | I have little to say | 16:40 |
| menesis | I took a day off Monday | 16:40 |
| th1a | That's fine, as long as you don't have little to say and lots of billed hours. ;-) | 16:41 |
| menesis | no | 16:41 |
| menesis | it is only 1 hour this week | 16:41 |
| menesis | monday off | 16:41 |
| menesis | and yesterday laurynas asked my help on another project in pov | 16:42 |
| menesis | that is due Monday | 16:42 |
| th1a | OK. This is a good week for it. | 16:42 |
| menesis | so I am working there yesterday and today | 16:42 |
| menesis | also friday was short.. | 16:42 |
| menesis | I was to document apache configs | 16:43 |
| menesis | made it work for me | 16:43 |
| menesis | assigned bugs etc | 16:43 |
| menesis | but not written all this to a book page yet | 16:43 |
| menesis | also created https://launchpad.net/schooltool-book project | 16:43 |
| menesis | if you haven't seen it yet | 16:43 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:44 |
| * replaceafill is already using it | 16:44 | |
| menesis | I was also updating some zope packages/schooltool versions | 16:44 |
| menesis | that's all | 16:44 |
| menesis | or you have got spam already ;) | 16:44 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Thanks menesis. | 16:45 |
| th1a | replaceafill? | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | ok | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | i've been working on the spanish translation of the book | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | http://69.164.203.135/book-es/ | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | here's the screenshots page in spanish http://69.164.203.135/book-es/screenshots.html | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | i have some i18n, mostly for menesis | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | *i18n questions :) | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | 1. what do we need to do to get the schooltool description in the software center in spanish? | 16:47 |
| menesis | not sure | 16:48 |
| replaceafill | 2. what do you recommend for registering i18n issues like: | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | Intervention index.html: | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | - Goal met | 16:49 |
| th1a | Did you try googling 1)? | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | - Relationships in responsible persons list | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | th1a, no | 16:50 |
| th1a | registering i18n issues? | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:50 |
| th1a | registering where? | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | something like the css bug | 16:50 |
| th1a | Seems like the thing to do to me. | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | i mean, i've been finding stuff like: | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | the importer uses 'Location', 'Equipment' or 'Resource' | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | maybe it could use one single letter | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | to avoid the i18n | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | that kind of stuff | 16:51 |
| th1a | The spreadsheet? | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | and Groups | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | they are created in English by default | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | so i was wondering if a bug with multiple updates was the right solution | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | or maybe a blueprint, idk | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | i think bugs are too noisy for this | 16:52 |
| th1a | I don't like blueprints. | 16:52 |
| th1a | One bug or many. | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | i'd rather one bug, like with css | 16:52 |
| th1a | Fine with me. | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | kk | 16:52 |
| replaceafill | also, i helped maker-kin to set up his instance in mac osx | 16:53 |
| replaceafill | well, i tried :) | 16:53 |
| th1a | Unless Excel has its own i18n machinery, i'd think the only solution would be multiple versions of the template. | 16:53 |
| th1a | Or we could dynamically generate it. | 16:53 |
| aelkner | sounds right | 16:53 |
| th1a | replaceafill: He actually got it working. | 16:53 |
| aelkner | sample_data_es.xls? | 16:53 |
| replaceafill | th1a, yes i noticed | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | but what he brought to my attention was: | 16:54 |
| th1a | We really could dynamically generate it, but it would take some work. | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | http://source.schooltool.org/ | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | it points to old instructions | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | to a branch from 2009 | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | could we take that down? | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | or update it | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | so people go to LP | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | 3. th1a i got an empty page in the book: | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | http://book.schooltool.org/setup_initial.html | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | oh man! | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | 4. menesis where could i set up my spanish book branch in schooltool.org? | 16:56 |
| th1a | Huh. | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | (that was my first question for menesis) :) | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | i want to put the spanish version available in schooltool.org | 16:56 |
| menesis | 2. I don't have a solution for 2. maybe it is a problem in the edit group title form and others. I have fixed i18n of default demographic fields (e.g. ethnicity) and it seemed to display good in different languages | 16:56 |
| th1a | Is there actually a link to that or is it just hanging out? | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | th1a, there is | 16:57 |
| menesis | but it was more by accident | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | th1a, http://book.schooltool.org/install.html | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | at the bottom | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | You can now undertake the Server Settings. | 16:57 |
| menesis | 2. or sorry, if you are talking about xls, no idea what to do. I think everything is in english in the xls? | 16:58 |
| th1a | It should go to http://book.schooltool.org/admin-passwd.html and the setup_initial should go away entirely. | 16:58 |
| menesis | admin-passwd.html is a cryptic name | 16:59 |
| menesis | I wanted to paste a link | 16:59 |
| menesis | for someone who asked how to launch schooltool | 16:59 |
| menesis | and did not find a /running.html or something to point to | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | it's in the installation instructions, right? | 17:00 |
| menesis | a page that says "SchoolTool is a server, to use it, open localhost:7080 in your browser | 17:00 |
| th1a | It could use a separate page. | 17:00 |
| menesis | yes, it is somewhere else | 17:00 |
| menesis | in install insctructions, and in admin-passwd | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | ok, to write my report | 17:01 |
| menesis | but the person has installed already, but does not find how to use it | 17:01 |
| th1a | Basically, we do need to make it harder for people to miss the book entirely. | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | sorry, to wrap my report... | 17:01 |
| th1a | We need a link in the interface. | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | th1a and i added shadows to the website yesterday | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | i found that safari needs khtml-* rules :) | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | and it seems like opera has its own too -o-* | 17:02 |
| * th1a sighs. | 17:03 | |
| th1a | Welcome to the future. | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:03 |
| th1a | Painfully similar to the past. | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | i think i should review the app/book css to adjust shadows at least | 17:03 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:03 |
| th1a | Well, | 17:03 |
| th1a | let's see what we decide for the header. | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | app/book/website | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | ah yes | 17:04 |
| th1a | So no rush. | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | i think that's it from me | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | ah! | 17:04 |
| th1a | replaceafill: please file the xls issue as a separate bug. | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | th1a, ok | 17:04 |
| th1a | Do you know what I mean when I say generate it dynamically. | 17:04 |
| th1a | Using whatever that library is called. | 17:04 |
| th1a | xlwt or whatever? | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | th1a, yes | 17:04 |
| menesis | there is sampledata.py | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | a view to get the xls | 17:05 |
| menesis | that generates dynamically into database | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i think we should add css classes to the book for some images | 17:05 |
| th1a | It would create the spreadsheet on the fly in the right language. | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | like: http://book.schooltool.org/persons.html | 17:05 |
| menesis | could create a xls output similarly | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | th1a, see the first two images collapsing | 17:06 |
| th1a | Collapsing? | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | do you see the first two images | 17:06 |
| th1a | yes... | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | with no margin | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | between them | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | seems like one single image | 17:07 |
| th1a | That's good, because they really should be one image. | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | :| | 17:07 |
| th1a | I just can't do that easily. | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | never mind then :D | 17:07 |
| th1a | (of course it is possible) | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | ok, now i'm done | 17:07 |
| th1a | OK, thanks replaceafill. | 17:07 |
| th1a | aelkner, and I have a topic to continue from a phone conversation yesterday. | 17:08 |
| aelkner | do you want to start? | 17:08 |
| th1a | I just want to preface it by saying that going forward when we... | 17:08 |
| th1a | (yes) | 17:08 |
| th1a | ...develop new features going forward, we need to be focusing UI from the start, not "get the model right and think of the UI later." | 17:08 |
| th1a | So, we need to discuss the UI for this... | 17:09 |
| th1a | Basically, teachers need to be able to share/copy activities between different sections. | 17:09 |
| th1a | Particularly if they're teaching multiple sections of the same course. | 17:09 |
| th1a | Basically every activity for one Algebra I section will be repeated in each of the others. | 17:10 |
| th1a | Usually. | 17:10 |
| th1a | Now, aelkner and I have been talking about course level, schoolwide solutions to a related issue. | 17:10 |
| th1a | But this is just for easy sharing by an individual teacher with himself. | 17:11 |
| th1a | So, I had some overly abstract ideas, jelkner had a simpler one, which is what we're going to try. | 17:11 |
| th1a | Basically, you have an activity in the gradebook, click on it, get the pop-up, pick uh... | 17:11 |
| th1a | "Share" or "Copy" or whatever we call it... | 17:12 |
| th1a | you get a modal that -- for starters at least -- just has the other sections, this term, of the same course, taught by you. | 17:12 |
| th1a | So it constrains the number of sections. | 17:12 |
| th1a | You pick the ones you want to copy the activity to, hit Submit, Voila! | 17:13 |
| aelkner | wait, worksheet checkboxes | 17:13 |
| th1a | Oh, yes, you have to pick the actual worksheets. | 17:13 |
| th1a | So even though this is usually a fairly short list, it can be long. | 17:14 |
| yvl | if I may interrupt with my two cents... :) | 17:14 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:14 |
| aelkner | basically it's a product of sections and worksheets/section | 17:14 |
| yvl | this is quite similar to what CanDo does with competencies, isn't it? | 17:14 |
| aelkner | that's a multi-step, right? | 17:14 |
| yvl | I mean the part where competencies are assembled into groups and then assigned to courses, sections or whatever | 17:15 |
| aelkner | yes, it's a multi-step process i believe | 17:15 |
| yvl | (and competencies are schooltool.requirement activities or something) | 17:15 |
| yvl | (the same thing gradebook uses for worksheets essentially) | 17:16 |
| yvl | so if you could build such group for a... teacher for example | 17:17 |
| yvl | deploying to worksheet would become one click | 17:17 |
| yvl | and worksheet activities could be considered as a generic acivity group also | 17:17 |
| th1a | I think yvl is on his way to recreating my more abstract approach. | 17:17 |
| yvl | probably :D | 17:17 |
| aelkner | that's the deployment approeach | 17:17 |
| th1a | It just requires the teacher to understand more than he wants to. | 17:18 |
| yvl | in my mind, no :) | 17:18 |
| yvl | say, something like add activity | 17:18 |
| yvl | a tab "from other worksheets" | 17:19 |
| yvl | you get presented with a list with checkboxes | 17:19 |
| yvl | select | 17:19 |
| yvl | and "Add All" | 17:19 |
| yvl | my wording is horrible of course | 17:19 |
| yvl | but I might be missing something essential | 17:20 |
| yvl | ok, now that I think of it, it would cover the "pull" part | 17:21 |
| th1a | I think it is pretty close to my original idea. As soon as I heard jelkner's idea, I knew it would be more intuitive to teachers. | 17:21 |
| yvl | true | 17:22 |
| th1a | In the meantime, I think I answered for myself the question I was going to ask. | 17:22 |
| th1a | Which was "what happens in the dialog if the list of sections/worksheets is too big." | 17:22 |
| yvl | I would like to also see a "copy activities" or something that allows to select multiple activities to copy to "random" sections | 17:22 |
| th1a | But I can see from the demo that you just get a scrollbar at right. | 17:22 |
| th1a | Which is fine with me. | 17:23 |
| * yvl shuts up now | 17:23 | |
| th1a | You might need to tweak the settings a bit to make sure it doesn't try to grow off the screen instead of scrolling. | 17:23 |
| aelkner | th1a, i just had a thought | 17:23 |
| th1a | yvl: I'm trying to keep it simple for now. | 17:23 |
| yvl | it might be the best idea to do so | 17:24 |
| aelkner | if we make one, and would consider it safe, assumption | 17:24 |
| th1a | But yes, there are many variations, probably all of which would be implemented given enough time... | 17:24 |
| aelkner | and that the teacher can only copy a given activity to one worksheets per section | 17:24 |
| aelkner | we could have a rather short dialog with only one pulldown menu per section | 17:24 |
| aelkner | with --not to this section-- as the default | 17:25 |
| th1a | Actually, that's probably ok. | 17:25 |
| aelkner | oh, another thought just occured to me | 17:25 |
| th1a | Worst case scenario, someone complains about having to open the dialog twice. | 17:25 |
| aelkner | to save the user effort in a common case, where all sections have the same worksheets | 17:27 |
| menesis | menu item "Copy to" and a dialog: | 17:27 |
| menesis | Section 1: Worksheet_ Exams_ Labs_ | 17:27 |
| menesis | Section 2: Worksheet_ Exams_ Labs_ Other_ | 17:27 |
| aelkner | we could have on more pulldown at the top, kind of lke a select all | 17:27 |
| aelkner | i'm just going to keep writing here... | 17:27 |
| aelkner | so there would be a small dialog, on line per section | 17:28 |
| menesis | choose one. | 17:28 |
| th1a | I think simple. | 17:28 |
| th1a | Let's make it as simple and clear as possible. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | one line at the top with select all type dropdown | 17:28 |
| th1a | We're not jumping to power users. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | how is what i'm suggesting not simple | 17:28 |
| th1a | Let's just not jump to that yet. | 17:29 |
| aelkner | go ahead | 17:29 |
| th1a | It adds complexity to the form. | 17:29 |
| th1a | What if the user didn't name them all the same. | 17:30 |
| menesis | draw something | 17:30 |
| menesis | it's hard to imagine | 17:30 |
| aelkner | easy, the list has a union of all names | 17:30 |
| th1a | And then they're like "Oh shit, nobody told me that was important, what do I do now." | 17:30 |
| menesis | ;) | 17:30 |
| aelkner | if section 1 has Sheet1, Sheet32 | 17:30 |
| aelkner | Sheet2, that is | 17:30 |
| th1a | aelkner: I understand what you are proposing and its potential value. | 17:30 |
| aelkner | and section 2 has Sheet2, Sheet3 | 17:30 |
| th1a | I'm just saying, we don't need it in the intitial implementation. | 17:30 |
| aelkner | the dropdown cold have all three | 17:31 |
| aelkner | what i'm talking about would be inexpensive to develop and easy to use | 17:31 |
| aelkner | but besides that, it's a terrible idea | 17:31 |
| th1a | We can add it at any time aelkner. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | ok, but anyway, that's one paradigm, as you said, from a teacher's pojnt of view, like jelkner | 17:32 |
| aelkner | we were also going to discuss course leader | 17:32 |
| aelkner | and the idea of deploying/hiding on a cross-section scale | 17:33 |
| aelkner | with a deploy/hide set of views pretty much looking the same as report sheets | 17:33 |
| th1a | No, we are not talking about that now. | 17:34 |
| th1a | We can discuss that on the phone if you want. | 17:34 |
| th1a | We don't need everyone else for it. | 17:34 |
| aelkner | i had prepared notes for discussion as it involves adding to the data odel | 17:35 |
| aelkner | model | 17:35 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:35 |
| th1a | Go ahead. | 17:35 |
| th1a | If it is a data model problem. | 17:36 |
| aelkner | well, i need the focus to shift, and if you're not done with the modal thing, we should finish that | 17:36 |
| aelkner | i'm just saying, not just the phone for deploy feature, here, too | 17:36 |
| th1a | I'm ok with it. | 17:36 |
| th1a | (with the modal discussion being done) | 17:37 |
| th1a | Go ahead. | 17:37 |
| aelkner | so, we take that up the modal discussion monday and i focus on deployment until then, ok | 17:37 |
| aelkner | so shifting focus here, it's one thing for a teacher to have better tools for copying activities around | 17:38 |
| aelkner | but in some cases, a course leader, say a more senior teacher | 17:38 |
| aelkner | will have the desire to take the task of setting up everyone's gradebooks | 17:39 |
| aelkner | they alone, along with any admin user, can deploy or hide a set of worksheets | 17:39 |
| aelkner | two things at play here | 17:39 |
| menesis | just make it work for an average teacher | 17:40 |
| aelkner | one is the convenience the task provides the other teachers, not need to set up some of the activities | 17:40 |
| aelkner | secondly, the course leader has a control (as admin has with report sheets) | 17:40 |
| aelkner | no teacher can hide or otherwise change a report sheet activity | 17:41 |
| aelkner | or sheet for that matter | 17:41 |
| aelkner | this amount s to giving the teacher a mid-level admin function | 17:41 |
| aelkner | i believe that is the intent of having a course leader in our data model | 17:41 |
| aelkner | so those are the two needs that are adressed | 17:42 |
| aelkner | the view for deplying/hinding would look the same as the admin uses for report sheets | 17:42 |
| menesis | teachers manage their activities themselves | 17:42 |
| aelkner | a table, with terms as columns, deploy to whole year as an option | 17:43 |
| aelkner | menesis, this is different | 17:43 |
| menesis | but yes there are similarities between copying an activity or rather whole sheet to deploying a worksheet | 17:43 |
| aelkner | we allow the teacher to play around with their gradebook, like a sandbox | 17:43 |
| menesis | deploying report sheet, rather | 17:43 |
| aelkner | but admin has control over their report sheets | 17:43 |
| aelkner | i'm just talking about giving a course lead the same type of contol | 17:44 |
| aelkner | so any other thoughts on this 'course leader as second level admin' concept? | 17:44 |
| menesis | maybe. that's a different issue. | 17:44 |
| menesis | what should he be able to do | 17:44 |
| menesis | needs more crowds and security declarations i guess. who can add/ copy/deploy what | 17:45 |
| aelkner | menesis, the course leader is the only who we're talking about besides admin as always | 17:46 |
| th1a | They already have elevated permissions within the group. | 17:46 |
| th1a | It isn't a new concept. | 17:46 |
| th1a | It does not present a data model issue. | 17:46 |
| aelkner | :) | 17:46 |
| aelkner | but seriously, i'm only talking about using what we already have | 17:47 |
| aelkner | the question is, will this deploy/hide feature really be useful to a course leader | 17:47 |
| * th1a didn't want to talk about this because I suspected nobody else would have an opinion. | 17:47 | |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:48 |
| th1a | Who else would do it? | 17:48 |
| aelkner | it would surprise me that nobody else would care about data model concepts like security and adding data to the model | 17:48 |
| aelkner | i haven't even gotten to the way i would add the templates to the course | 17:49 |
| th1a | OK, keep going. | 17:49 |
| th1a | Yes, deploy/hide is useful to the leader. | 17:50 |
| aelkner | so we have IActivities(section) | 17:50 |
| aelkner | this is where the activity tree for the section gradebook is kept | 17:50 |
| aelkner | is uses annotations, of course, and IActivities is jsut an unfortunate name (legacy before worksheets existed) | 17:51 |
| aelkner | it's really a container of worksheets, same as the report sheet templates off of gradebook root | 17:51 |
| aelkner | so i propose adding IActivities(course), doing basically the same as IActivites(section) | 17:52 |
| aelkner | yvl, here's where you get to complain, and i say too bad :) | 17:52 |
| yvl | your funeral | 17:52 |
| yvl | :P | 17:52 |
| aelkner | but seriously, i think this is a sensible continuation of a paradigm | 17:52 |
| yvl | well, whatever makes this woek | 17:53 |
| aelkner | yvl, you're allowed to state your case, i was just kidding | 17:53 |
| yvl | we'll figure it out when porting CanDo | 17:53 |
| aelkner | ah, yes CanDo | 17:53 |
| aelkner | that's another case of annotations of the section | 17:53 |
| aelkner | there are so many cases of annotations | 17:54 |
| aelkner | use in schooltool, that is | 17:54 |
| aelkner | if they are an evil, then using them once is no better than using them ten times, IMHO | 17:54 |
| th1a | Is there a question at the end of this? | 17:55 |
| aelkner | so basically, all kidding aside, it seems the practical thing to do to continue the paradigm | 17:55 |
| th1a | Agreed. | 17:56 |
| aelkner | until we finally come up with our own solution to the problem | 17:56 |
| th1a | And... | 17:56 |
| aelkner | ok, greate, so agreed on adding annotation to course, no the next thing | 17:56 |
| aelkner | the difference between report activities and regular ones is in the add form | 17:57 |
| aelkner | i'm assuming we want these course sheets to contain regular activities, not report activities | 17:58 |
| aelkner | regular ones can be averaged | 17:58 |
| aelkner | report sheet activities have a dropdown including Comment Score System | 17:58 |
| aelkner | so the average is N/A in th gradebook for report sheets | 17:59 |
| th1a | They're regular activities. | 17:59 |
| aelkner | ok, confirmed | 17:59 |
| aelkner | which is nice because IActivites(course) is more straightforward than IReportSheetTemplates(course) | 18:00 |
| th1a | aelkner can continue but I'm going to... | 18:00 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel | 18:00 | |
| replaceafill | th1a, i have a question after aelkner is done please | 18:00 |
| th1a | Have a great week/weekend guys! | 18:01 |
| th1a | replaceafill: I will still be here. | 18:01 |
| replaceafill | kk | 18:01 |
| yvl | great week and weekend to all! | 18:01 |
| aelkner | yvl, i agree that the cando refactor will be a good time to discuss data model in gradebook | 18:02 |
| th1a | We're not going to be refactoring the gradebook anytime soon. | 18:02 |
| aelkner | if we are going to solve one thing with 9 units of effort, then solving the rest with one more makes sense | 18:02 |
| aelkner | or we could keep thing the way the are :) | 18:02 |
| aelkner | in any event, i'm confident we won't regret adding IActivities(course) | 18:03 |
| aelkner | that's all I have to say on that, have a great week/weekend all! | 18:03 |
| replaceafill | th1a, on the i18n issue of the xls importer | 18:04 |
| replaceafill | we want to generate the xls dinamically in the user locale *AND* we want to parse in that locale too right? | 18:05 |
| th1a | We would like to. | 18:05 |
| th1a | The question is how plausible it actually is. | 18:06 |
| th1a | aelkner: more questions/issues? | 18:06 |
| yvl | yay, just got the first hacky implementation working (search in courses) | 18:07 |
| th1a | Ah, good. | 18:07 |
| replaceafill | yvl, is it possible to get the original string from a translated one? | 18:08 |
| yvl | in general - no, replaceafill | 18:08 |
| replaceafill | right | 18:08 |
| aelkner | th1a, i don't want to interrupt others now, i just had the floor for some time | 18:08 |
| yvl | but it is possible to hackily guess it | 18:08 |
| replaceafill | that's what i thought | 18:08 |
| replaceafill | yvl, is it? | 18:08 |
| yvl | since I have very few courses... it feels decently fast in chrome | 18:08 |
| yvl | insanely fast, in comparison with what we had :D | 18:08 |
| yvl | replaceafill, it is possible, but I'd prefer not to do it | 18:09 |
| replaceafill | yvl, it's just that's the only solution i can think of if we're allowing people to send xls in their locale | 18:09 |
| th1a | What do we need to translate? | 18:10 |
| replaceafill | unless we use codes or something | 18:10 |
| th1a | This is for the days of the week? | 18:10 |
| replaceafill | suppose someone send "Terça-Feira" | 18:10 |
| replaceafill | Tuesday | 18:10 |
| replaceafill | yes | 18:10 |
| replaceafill | and Location, Resource, etc | 18:10 |
| yvl | we CAN compare what we got with translated version in same locale user sees in browser | 18:11 |
| yvl | but it's threading on a thin ice | 18:11 |
| yvl | we could also add a dropdown to select a language of XLS file | 18:11 |
| th1a | So this is just for where we need to read a string that has a particular significance to the app. | 18:11 |
| th1a | Not, say, a person's name. | 18:11 |
| yvl | yes | 18:11 |
| replaceafill | yes | 18:11 |
| th1a | It seems to me that codes are the way to go and to generate localized legends on the spreadsheet. | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | yvl, i agree, someone changes "Martes" for "martes" in rosetta, the user uses old generated xls, and errors :( | 18:13 |
| replaceafill | Martes is Tuesday too :P | 18:13 |
| th1a | Actually we could use dropdowns IN the xls file probably. | 18:14 |
| replaceafill | ah | 18:15 |
| th1a | Generate an i18n-ed dropdown with the translated days of the week in the proper cell. | 18:15 |
| th1a | That's only worth trying if it actually works everywhere we need it to, I think. | 18:15 |
| replaceafill | we have to find out if the xlwt can do it too | 18:15 |
| th1a | I think the way the spreadsheets repeat would make it not work. | 18:16 |
| yvl | we can do an ugly solution | 18:18 |
| yvl | add a "translation" sheet to the XLS | 18:18 |
| yvl | with word pairs | 18:18 |
| yvl | Tusday, Terça-Feira | 18:18 |
| replaceafill | so users match the values? | 18:18 |
| yvl | etc. | 18:18 |
| yvl | yes | 18:18 |
| yvl | but it'... really not elegant | 18:19 |
| yvl | a much better solution would be to design the sheet so that such values would be not significant | 18:19 |
| yvl | like... | 18:19 |
| yvl | use tables | 18:19 |
| th1a | I think non-english codes are better. | 18:19 |
| yvl | [monday] [tuesday] ... [sunday] | 18:20 |
| yvl | [ ] [X] [X] ... [ ] | 18:20 |
| menesis | export translated values, and match by translated values on import. | 18:21 |
| menesis | should work when importing/exporting in same language | 18:21 |
| yvl | hard to rebuild when a clerk that looks in Lithuanian for convenience | 18:21 |
| yvl | exports and gives the sheet to fill to another clerk | 18:21 |
| yvl | that does not look at it in Lithuanian | 18:22 |
| yvl | ok, time to go home | 18:23 |
| yvl | so long! :) | 18:23 |
| replaceafill | thanks yvl | 18:23 |
| yvl | oh! | 18:23 |
| yvl | right | 18:23 |
| yvl | th1a, | 18:23 |
| th1a | replaceafill: You should look at redesigning the spreadsheets with i18n in mind. | 18:23 |
| yvl | what about my vacation on Jan? | 18:24 |
| replaceafill | th1a, kk | 18:24 |
| yvl | we'd like to buy plane tickets this week | 18:24 |
| th1a | Oh, just book it whenever you want. | 18:24 |
| yvl | ok | 18:24 |
| yvl | thanks! | 18:24 |
| yvl | happy SchoolTool'ing guys! ;) | 18:25 |
| th1a | replaceafill: As usual remember that no great process went into designing the current forms, other than ignas thinking about it. | 18:25 |
| th1a | I don't think anyone else has a strong attachment to their current form. | 18:26 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i was thinking that maybe we could just use notes in the header cells, with some help | 18:26 |
| replaceafill | in the user's locale | 18:26 |
| replaceafill | but i understand what you mean | 18:27 |
| ignas | th1a, i'd do the in a completely different way now if I would have to do that :D | 18:27 |
| ignas | *them | 18:27 |
| replaceafill | something like this: http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7168/pantallazodel2011120710.png | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | just and idea | 18:29 |
| replaceafill | *an | 18:30 |
| th1a | That's a sentiment frequently expressed around here ignas. | 18:30 |
| th1a | replaceafill: at least spreadsheets are easy to prototype. ;-) | 18:30 |
| th1a | I like yvl's idea about printing the values in cells and then having checkboxes. | 18:31 |
| replaceafill | i don't think xlwt has the power to do forms (after a quick glance at the docs) | 18:32 |
| replaceafill | but i'll investigate | 18:32 |
| ignas | ahh you are talking about spreadsheets not web forms :D well - those i'd only fix up a bit :) | 18:32 |
| th1a | We're just pushing SchoolTool's i18n support, so we have to clean it up in all the corners. | 18:33 |
| ignas | makes sense, though when importing you can probably detect language from the spreadsheet and act accordingly most of the time | 18:33 |
| ignas | as in - strict in what you produce, lax in what you accept :) | 18:33 |
| th1a | aelkner: Shall we continue? | 18:40 |
| aelkner | sure | 18:41 |
| aelkner | i didn't get a chance to mention the fact that the course view is not ready to accept a Customize link of a Deployed Sheets link at the bottom, but perhaps we could just add those links to the Actions linkset | 18:42 |
| aelkner | Customize Worksheet Templates | 18:42 |
| aelkner | Deploy Worksheet | 18:43 |
| aelkner | something like that | 18:43 |
| aelkner | remember, these are not report sheets | 18:43 |
| aelkner | as we agreed they have to be averaged | 18:43 |
| aelkner | but first, your thoughts on the link titles? | 18:44 |
| th1a | I have none at the moment. | 18:44 |
| aelkner | ok, not important, easy to change later | 18:44 |
| * th1a creates a course... | 18:45 | |
| aelkner | i'll just go with what i suggested to have links to use | 18:45 |
| aelkner | anyway, those two links can lead to the same two views that we have for report sheets | 18:45 |
| th1a | Why wouldn't we have Deployed Sheets under Responsible Parties? | 18:46 |
| aelkner | the School tab view was designed to have viewlets, i.e., clients that provide links or tables and such | 18:46 |
| aelkner | the course view is not written that way | 18:47 |
| th1a | Could you change that in a day? | 18:47 |
| aelkner | do we want to is one question | 18:47 |
| aelkner | yvl would have had a thought on that i would think | 18:47 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:48 |
| aelkner | how about we go with the two action links i mentioned until Monday? | 18:48 |
| th1a | It isn't like "Course" is some minor unimportant concept. | 18:48 |
| th1a | Is there some other option I'm not aware of? | 18:48 |
| aelkner | i was saying that we choose the option of adding temp links to Actions meu until Monday where yvl can way in on whether we turn the course view into a viewlet manager | 18:49 |
| aelkner | and how that decision relates to doing it in other views | 18:49 |
| th1a | How might it relate to doing it in other views? | 18:50 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, you can use extra content in a page | 18:50 |
| replaceafill | look for the page_content provider | 18:50 |
| aelkner | oh, is that the viewlet manager that the School tab view uses? | 18:51 |
| replaceafill | yep | 18:51 |
| replaceafill | the interface you want for the manager is page.IPageContentManager | 18:52 |
| aelkner | i found the page.pt template and i see that it renders after the main_content div | 18:52 |
| aelkner | so that means the Done button will come before it | 18:53 |
| replaceafill | you can put the done in an additional viewlet | 18:53 |
| replaceafill | i mean, move | 18:53 |
| aelkner | i guess, if that's what we need | 18:53 |
| aelkner | but anyway, having that manager and not using it would be a shame | 18:54 |
| aelkner | thanks for pointing me there, replaceafill | 18:54 |
| replaceafill | np | 18:54 |
| aelkner | so th1a, i can use that manager for the Deployed Worksheets link at the bottom | 18:55 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:56 |
| aelkner | and add the Customize Worksheet Templates to the Actions menu | 18:56 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:56 |
| aelkner | cool | 18:56 |
| aelkner | in any event, the two views will act just like the report sheet views, including the ability to overwrite the title | 18:57 |
| aelkner | and the deploy view leads to the Hide/unhide view, etc. | 18:57 |
| aelkner | btw, another thing to decide | 18:58 |
| aelkner | or i should say confirm with you something that seems necessary | 18:58 |
| aelkner | or is should say, the course leader will have the same inability to change anything about a deployed worksheet, like the score system or anything | 18:59 |
| aelkner | so if teachers enter grades and the course leader realizes a mistake in the activities, they have to hide, deploy an edited version of the template | 19:00 |
| aelkner | it's the same issue with report sheets, but i just wanted to mention it | 19:00 |
| aelkner | enough said? | 19:01 |
| th1a | oh... | 19:01 |
| th1a | Yes. YOu can't edit a deployed sheet. | 19:02 |
| aelkner | ok, cool, confirmed, thanks | 19:02 |
| aelkner | that's all i need to discuss | 19:03 |
| th1a | Thank you aelkner. | 19:05 |
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| maker_ | Hello. May I know if some features are todos and/or well-accepted, considering what the program aims at? | 22:00 |
| th1a | hi maker_. | 22:01 |
| th1a | We're certainly open to feedback. | 22:02 |
| maker_ | First of all, student photos (I mean, avatar); then student reports (i.e, disciplinary notes, absences, etc) | 22:02 |
| th1a | Photos are on the short todo list. | 22:02 |
| th1a | We like examples of reports if you have them. | 22:02 |
| th1a | We just don't like to guess about exactly what people want in a report. | 22:02 |
| th1a | But yes, definitely we need more reports. | 22:03 |
| th1a | And very specific requests for reports! | 22:03 |
| maker_ | I was talking with an italian school director. It's a little different from the american system, so probably many features are unnecessary for you. | 22:04 |
| th1a | Well, we don't intend to be specific to America. | 22:04 |
| th1a | We just don't necessarily understand other requirements until people tell us. | 22:04 |
| maker_ | th1a: I mean, when a teacher opens a student report, it would be nice to have, apart from a small anagraphic, its notes (disciplinary, delays, etc) | 22:05 |
| maker_ | parents contacts, a photos | 22:05 |
| th1a | Which version are you using? | 22:06 |
| maker_ | Latest, from bazaar. | 22:06 |
| th1a | We have the contacts slider, but yes, there should be more integration with other components in the basic view. | 22:07 |
| th1a | So yes, these are things on our short list. | 22:07 |
| th1a | Just to be sure -- your instance is green, not red? | 22:10 |
| maker_ | th1a: that's to say anyone is assigned yet? | 22:10 |
| th1a | Not actually working on it yet. | 22:11 |
| th1a | Let me see... | 22:12 |
| th1a | This is the working "short list." | 22:12 |
| th1a | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/schooltool/+spec/schooltool-2012 | 22:12 |
| th1a | I'll add more about the student view now. ;-) | 22:13 |
| maker_ | th1a: \o/ thanks, probably these days I'll give a look to schooltools, to see if I could give my help :) | 22:15 |
| th1a | Cool. Are you in Italy? | 22:18 |
| maker_ | yep | 22:19 |
| th1a | How's SchoolTool running on your Mac? | 22:21 |
| th1a | Does it seem slow? Crashy? | 22:22 |
| th1a | (other than slow on the big import...) | 22:22 |
| maker_ | th1a: it's pretty responsive, and afais stable. | 22:23 |
| th1a | If you took notes on the setup I wouldn't mind a copy. | 22:24 |
| th1a | I guess I might be able to reconstruct from IRC. | 22:24 |
| maker_ | th1a: I don't have any irc log, but may I can give you my $ history | 22:29 |
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