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| th1a | Hi menesis, replaceafill, aelkner, yvl. | 16:30 |
|---|---|---|
| yvl | good morning | 16:30 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:30 |
| replaceafill | good morning/afternoon | 16:30 |
| th1a | Let's have quick updates and then more discussion of the next release. | 16:32 |
| th1a | aelkner? | 16:32 |
| aelkner | i started working on the courseinfo system | 16:32 |
| aelkner | i'm able to see david's bugs on his demo instance | 16:33 |
| aelkner | as i try to reproduce them on an empty db, i'm finding others bugs | 16:33 |
| aelkner | and i'm trying to figure out how the code works | 16:34 |
| th1a | Don't be afraid to ask filip. | 16:34 |
| aelkner | also, i'm waiting to talk to david (hopefully today) | 16:34 |
| aelkner | yes, i can always ask him if i can't figure something out, but mostly i need david's intentions | 16:35 |
| th1a | kk | 16:35 |
| aelkner | i'm not sure how much he has actually used this | 16:35 |
| th1a | At least he generally knows what he wants. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | yes | 16:36 |
| aelkner | anyway, that's it for me | 16:36 |
| th1a | kk | 16:37 |
| th1a | thanks. | 16:37 |
| th1a | replaceafill? | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | ok | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | on monday, david reported an issue with the competency xml importer | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | basically, they were starting with a fresh database and the importer took about an hour to finish | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | the new VERSO XML file contains about 41k competencies | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | so it's big | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | i profiled the importer | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | and noticed that cando sets a catalog index for competencies | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | i think every time a competency is created/updated, the catalog index subscribers are called | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | also, the competency tree is designed in a recursive way | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | that makes it very hard to update | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | so i tested that, including the lucid packaged version they're using | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | david replied today saying that the main issue is not know how long it will take to import | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | that the user doesn't know if the process is working or not | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | kind of the same problem we have with the XLS importing | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | i also started the spanish version of the book | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | found a couple of unicode issues with sphinx | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | but was able to fix them thanks to their mailing list | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | finally, schwa reported that the book was not showing the ubuntu font | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | we were missing the <link /> to get the ubuntu web font in the book | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | so i fixed that too | 16:44 |
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| replaceafill | th1a, i was wondering if i should continue with the cando issue | 16:44 |
| th1a | Well... | 16:44 |
| th1a | Can you just add a javascript spinner? | 16:45 |
| th1a | And leave it at that? | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | i could, but that's just an "illusion" | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | to give the user some "hope" that the process is going on | 16:45 |
| th1a | Is there any reason to think that it is not? | 16:46 |
| th1a | Timing out is the biggest problem, which a little javascript would fix, right? | 16:46 |
| th1a | And then they do get a confirmation in the end? | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | th1a, yes, they do | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | i don't know how a little js would fix it | 16:46 |
| th1a | Just do that and we'll completely re-write it next year. | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | ok, i'll do that | 16:47 |
| th1a | If it doesn't time out and it works, we're good. | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | yeah, Matt told me that there may be issues with proxies, but they haven't had any so far | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | i think not many users are importing the new xml anyway | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | ok, that's it from me | 16:48 |
| th1a | This seems like the kind of thing more easily re-written from scratch than untangled. | 16:48 |
| menesis | Need to save the file and import in separate thread. Also show status somewhere | 16:48 |
| replaceafill | agree | 16:48 |
| th1a | Good... I 'm definitely in favor of just a clean reimplementation. | 16:49 |
| menesis | Don't ask how to do it XD | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | :D | 16:49 |
| th1a | We don't need to do it right at this point. | 16:49 |
| th1a | It would be better to just redirect them to a page that said "OK, come back tomorrow morning, thanks!" | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | background processing is not for 2012, right? | 16:50 |
| th1a | Well... it is not a top priority. | 16:50 |
| replaceafill | ok | 16:51 |
| * replaceafill done | 16:51 | |
| th1a | Maybe starting new threads is easier in Pyramid. ;-) | 16:51 |
| menesis | :-D | 16:51 |
| th1a | Thanks replaceafill. | 16:52 |
| th1a | yvl? | 16:52 |
| yvl | yesterday I was working on batching here and there | 16:52 |
| yvl | also added usernames to tables that list persons | 16:52 |
| yvl | users, to be precise | 16:53 |
| yvl | today I worked on ajaxification of relationships | 16:53 |
| yvl | it is quite exciting, actually | 16:53 |
| replaceafill | yvl, what's the meaning of: Pyatiletka? :) | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | just curious | 16:54 |
| yvl | wikipedia it ;) | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | ah | 16:55 |
| yvl | ;))) | 16:55 |
| yvl | I think we'll need to ajaxify more things in ST | 16:55 |
| yvl | so I'm also adding some infrastructure to help with that | 16:55 |
| yvl | being quite conservative not to waste too much time on it though | 16:56 |
| yvl | I think I'll be done Fri/Mon | 16:56 |
| yvl | (with ajaxy tables) | 16:56 |
| * yvl done | 16:56 | |
| menesis | Yay | 16:56 |
| th1a | yvl can anticipate my concerns now... | 16:57 |
| th1a | not TOO much infrastructure wanking... | 16:57 |
| th1a | Thanks yvl. | 16:57 |
| th1a | menesis? | 16:57 |
| menesis | Backported 2.0.0 packages to lucid. Copied to maverick. Checked that all dependencies are satisfied on lucid. Copied two missing ones from maverick. | 16:58 |
| menesis | Uploaded 2.0 to precise. Link to correct branches from ubuntu packages on launchpad. | 16:59 |
| menesis | Reviewed many more bugs. Sorry for the spam. | 16:59 |
| th1a | np | 16:59 |
| th1a | OK, so at this point the packages in Precise might be reviewed by someone else? | 17:00 |
| menesis | Will file more bugs for myself | 17:00 |
| menesis | Yes if someone dares to test precise | 17:00 |
| menesis | It is there | 17:01 |
| menesis | Also finished dh-python2 transition | 17:01 |
| menesis | Uploaded zope packages | 17:02 |
| menesis | Made all new upstream releases | 17:02 |
| menesis | Updated ztk | 17:03 |
| th1a | So... if nothing else happens, 2.0 is in the precise release, and somebody might raise some concerns at some point. | 17:03 |
| menesis | Updated versionator | 17:03 |
| menesis | Is all. | 17:03 |
| th1a | Thanks menesis. | 17:03 |
| th1a | So I'm thinking that focusing the goals for new features in Precise on transcripts might give us a good focus. | 17:04 |
| yvl | it is long overdue | 17:04 |
| th1a | Basically, to have transcripts, you need to have the school business logic pretty fully fleshed out. | 17:04 |
| th1a | (which is why we don't have it) | 17:05 |
| yvl | true | 17:05 |
| th1a | OK, so the transcript is, of course, focused on the student. | 17:05 |
| th1a | It is organized by school year. | 17:05 |
| th1a | (let me know if this is wrong for your experience) | 17:05 |
| th1a | So you need to know which years the student was actively enrolled. | 17:06 |
| th1a | I guess technically we could do this by membership in the student group. | 17:06 |
| th1a | But enrollment statuses would be more explicit. | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | th1a, a transcript is like a grades record? | 17:07 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 17:07 |
| th1a | That's what we're going over now... so we know what we're talking about. | 17:07 |
| th1a | The point is though, that in thinking about enrollment statuses, we want to think about it working from the point of view of the final transcript. | 17:08 |
| th1a | So we want to make sure that in the end you can say "this student was enrolled at this date, completed at this date" Was a student all these years. | 17:09 |
| th1a | Exactly how much detail we need to track about crazy enroll/unenroll scenarios, we'll have to think about at bit. | 17:10 |
| th1a | Questions about that/ | 17:10 |
| th1a | ? | 17:10 |
| th1a | (we're not designing this now, I'm just trying to give you the big picture) | 17:10 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:11 |
| yvl | btw, some examples of transcripts would be nice | 17:11 |
| replaceafill | +1 | 17:11 |
| yvl | just to get a sense of how many "other" info may be there | 17:11 |
| yvl | like... I dunno... Maybe some comments, | 17:11 |
| aelkner | if enrollment status is a transitory thing, i'm not sure it can be linked to a static transcript | 17:11 |
| yvl | graduated cum laude | 17:12 |
| yvl | and whatnot | 17:12 |
| aelkner | i think using the prsense in the student group is more static | 17:12 |
| th1a | Basically, I'd be googling them. | 17:12 |
| yvl | I understand, th1a | 17:12 |
| th1a | The "other" stuff I | 17:12 |
| th1a | am not so much worried about. | 17:12 |
| yvl | it's just that you can probably google better examples | 17:12 |
| th1a | aelkner: I don't see what you mean. | 17:13 |
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| yvl | or maybe it's actually this simple | 17:13 |
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| th1a | What does "static" have to do with anything? | 17:13 |
| aelkner | i'm not sure how enrollment status looks in the db, is it a setting for a student for each year? | 17:13 |
| th1a | It does not exist. | 17:14 |
| aelkner | i mean in your conception, i know it's not in the app | 17:14 |
| replaceafill | according to the original design, it was just an attribute on person | 17:14 |
| aelkner | right | 17:14 |
| th1a | It can't just be one setting for the year. | 17:14 |
| th1a | But perhaps it just needs a list of changes. | 17:14 |
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| aelkner | yes, if it's a history list, then that could be used to determine the transcript | 17:15 |
| th1a | It doesn't really need to live in the year even since you can figure out what changes happened in which year based on the dates. | 17:15 |
| aelkner | because the presence of an entry for a given year would be enough to know to print grades for that year | 17:15 |
| th1a | So basically, you need to do the same kind of thing with levels, and it probably should have the same implementation. | 17:16 |
| yvl | I think we may end up with additional info on relationships | 17:16 |
| th1a | aelkner was enrolled on August 1, 1979 as a 9th grader. | 17:16 |
| th1a | Advanced to 10th grade August 1, 1980, etc. | 17:17 |
| th1a | Then we need to know what classes the student enrolled in, which ones he completed, and what the grades were. | 17:18 |
| yvl | also, maybe: Tim enrolled Computer Science Advanced on June, but dropped that class two months later | 17:18 |
| th1a | And calculate a cumulative average. | 17:18 |
| th1a | yes, yvl. | 17:18 |
| th1a | So actually, these are three instances of the same problem. | 17:19 |
| * yvl agrees | 17:20 | |
| th1a | That is, tracking changes in status by date. | 17:20 |
| yvl | and maybe some additional "status" attribute | 17:20 |
| yvl | dropped out; completed; etc. | 17:20 |
| yvl | by date, also | 17:20 |
| yvl | right, that's what you said | 17:21 |
| yvl | sorry | 17:21 |
| * yvl is loosing concentration :) | 17:21 | |
| th1a | So I guess some investment in infrastructure for solving these the "right way" would be justified. | 17:21 |
| th1a | If we decide there's a "right way" | 17:21 |
| th1a | Actually, this is very relevant to schooltool.competency too, as it will track changes in scores over time. | 17:22 |
| * yvl would say "a way that does not slow down the system tremendously or slows down development speed tremendously" | 17:22 | |
| th1a | tbh, just keeping a list of changes might be best. | 17:22 |
| yvl | yes, but there's a bit more to that | 17:23 |
| th1a | Well, that might describe any possible solution. :-D | 17:23 |
| yvl | :)) | 17:24 |
| yvl | yes, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of how and where :) | 17:24 |
| th1a | Might be a matter of just making sure the indexing/cataloging gets done right. | 17:25 |
| yvl | true | 17:25 |
| yvl | "at least gets done" would also be an improvement :) | 17:25 |
| th1a | Actually the main thing might be just making sure it isn't implemented four different ways. ;-) | 17:26 |
| yvl | (for section membership) | 17:26 |
| yvl | sure | 17:26 |
| yvl | that too | 17:26 |
| th1a | Come to think of it, we'll need this for excusing absences too... | 17:27 |
| yvl | actually, implementing the base of enrollment does not seem to me like a huge chunk of work to me -- a bit tricky though | 17:27 |
| th1a | So basically, the next thing you can work on is this pattern, yvl. | 17:27 |
| yvl | cool | 17:27 |
| yvl | thanks!! | 17:27 |
| * yvl really wanted to do that | 17:27 | |
| th1a | replaceafill has most of the basic enrollment statuses done, btw. | 17:27 |
| yvl | branch, please ;) | 17:28 |
| replaceafill | haven't been able to find that branch, sorry | 17:28 |
| yvl | :D | 17:28 |
| replaceafill | i'm still looking through my old backups though | 17:28 |
| * th1a sighs. | 17:28 | |
| th1a | Does this make sense, aelkner? | 17:29 |
| aelkner | how do you mean? | 17:30 |
| aelkner | btw, i see two separate issues here | 17:31 |
| aelkner | enrollment status is one thing that we don't have and need to define | 17:31 |
| aelkner | cando competency grade history is something completely different | 17:31 |
| aelkner | we can add the history to the existing data model | 17:31 |
| aelkner | we just need to change a score value to a list and have a method for getting current score | 17:32 |
| th1a | "how do we track changes in data over time" is a generic question. | 17:32 |
| th1a | (not necessarily a hard one) | 17:32 |
| aelkner | i would say a list is the answer | 17:32 |
| th1a | Indeed. | 17:33 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:33 |
| aelkner | sorted by date with method for latest | 17:33 |
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| aelkner | and evolution script to turn atomic value into list of one | 17:33 |
| th1a | I think we're all more or less on the same page. | 17:33 |
| yvl | yes | 17:34 |
| th1a | OH! | 17:34 |
| th1a | INVOICES TOMORROW PLEASE. | 17:34 |
| th1a | So I can send them in with the report/proposal. | 17:34 |
| th1a | That is all. | 17:34 |
| th1a | Have a great rest of the week and weekend gentlemen! | 17:35 |
| aelkner | can i wait until monday so that i don't need to break up a week? | 17:35 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:35 | |
| th1a | No aelkner. | 17:35 |
| aelkner | so just don't include this week | 17:35 |
| th1a | Give me whatever you want tomorrow aelkner. | 17:35 |
| yvl | oh, I remembered a small thing | 17:35 |
| yvl | resource attributes | 17:35 |
| aelkner | i can include this week in december | 17:36 |
| yvl | and their evolution | 17:36 |
| yvl | is it done / needs bug report / needs to go on the blueprint? | 17:36 |
| th1a | Hm? | 17:37 |
| yvl | those bookable things | 17:37 |
| yvl | some attributes were removed this summer | 17:37 |
| yvl | replaceafill, do you remember status of this? | 17:38 |
| replaceafill | yvl, i think it's not done | 17:38 |
| replaceafill | at least by me | 17:38 |
| yvl | I vaguely recall that was "to be done" a month ago | 17:38 |
| replaceafill | but i remember i needed the new description field for it | 17:38 |
| yvl | right | 17:38 |
| replaceafill | because of the notes field | 17:38 |
| yvl | can you please file a bug report about that? | 17:39 |
| replaceafill | sure | 17:39 |
| yvl | (and put some small note what needs to be done) | 17:39 |
| yvl | thanks! | 17:39 |
| replaceafill | i vaguely recalls too yvl but i'll try | 17:39 |
| * yvl would hate to have poop left in old databases | 17:40 | |
| yvl | (unevolved attributes, that is) | 17:40 |
| replaceafill | Write evolution script for resources, make the "type" attribute a selection list demographics field and notes a description demographics field | 17:40 |
| replaceafill | that's in my notes | 17:40 |
| yvl | mkay | 17:41 |
| yvl | it would be good to have at least something there | 17:42 |
| yvl | we can flesh out that area later this year | 17:42 |
| yvl | (there -> Launchpad) | 17:42 |
| yvl | ok, thanks guys! | 17:42 |
| yvl | happy coding | 17:42 |
| yvl | (and happy report writing, th1a :) ) | 17:43 |
| yvl | ( it should be quite fun this time :) ) | 17:43 |
| th1a | Well... I'm finding it a bit less so than I would have thought. | 17:43 |
| yvl | :/ | 17:43 |
| th1a | We set the stage for future growth but didn't actually grow much. | 17:44 |
| th1a | So it isn't a complete slam dunk. | 17:44 |
| yvl | damn | 17:44 |
| yvl | still - a good place to be | 17:45 |
| th1a | Much better than before. | 17:45 |
| yvl | definitely | 17:45 |
| th1a | Getting CL's transition to 2.0 right is huge. | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | yvl, https://bugs.launchpad.net/schooltool/+bug/898212 | 17:45 |
| th1a | You and I might be taking a trip to Portugal for a few days next year. | 17:45 |
| * yvl doesn't mind going to Portugal :) | 17:49 | |
| yvl | oh! | 17:49 |
| yvl | I'd like to take a week of mid January | 17:49 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:50 |
| yvl | or more likely somewhere around the end of January | 17:50 |
| yvl | * off | 17:50 |
| yvl | ok | 17:50 |
| replaceafill | th1a, could yvl work on this soon? https://bugs.launchpad.net/schooltool/+bug/893186 | 17:50 |
| yvl | just wanted to check if we don't have anything important in Jan | 17:50 |
| replaceafill | sorry about being nagging about this, but i think we really need it | 17:50 |
| yvl | like a sprint or such | 17:50 |
| th1a | There will be a sprint around there. | 17:51 |
| yvl | hmm, right, replaceafill | 17:51 |
| th1a | We'll plan it as soon as we get approved for next year. | 17:51 |
| yvl | right | 17:51 |
| yvl | I'm kind of buying vacation plane tickets soon | 17:51 |
| yvl | so it would be good not to clash | 17:51 |
| th1a | yvl: You could do that bug next. | 17:51 |
| th1a | When do you want to buy them? | 17:52 |
| yvl | after ajaxy happy stuff, I promise, replaceafill! | 17:52 |
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| replaceafill | yvl, thanks! | 17:52 |
| yvl | th1a, somewhere Jan 15th - Feb 8 th | 17:52 |
| th1a | I mean, how soon do you need to book it? | 17:53 |
| yvl | the sooner the better, but it can wait a week or two | 17:53 |
| th1a | OK. I'll give you some dates soon. | 17:53 |
| yvl | thanks! | 17:53 |
| th1a | I suspect we aren't going to do the Lvov thing. | 17:54 |
| yvl | (wasn't it Lodz?) | 17:54 |
| yvl | I'd be okay with that :) | 17:54 |
| th1a | Oh, Lodz. | 17:55 |
| th1a | Something like that. ;-) | 17:55 |
| yvl | allright then | 17:55 |
| yvl | see you soon, guys | 17:55 |
| th1a | Later yvl. | 17:57 |
| * replaceafill is turning his flourish notes into bugs, so excuse the spam :) | 18:05 | |
| th1a | Thanks replaceafill. | 18:05 |
| replaceafill | There are some that i don't understand now like: "Remove ubuntu font link to googleapis" :| | 18:05 |
| replaceafill | for some reason i wanted to remove it ;) | 18:06 |
| replaceafill | th1a, what's the main reason for "Remove ethnicity field from default demographics fields"? | 18:07 |
| replaceafill | so i can put it in the bug notes | 18:07 |
| replaceafill | "because it's offensive" | 18:07 |
| th1a | People are offended by it. | 18:07 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 18:07 |
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| menesis | https://launchpad.net/schooltool-book | 19:35 |
| th1a | Is that what I should be using? | 19:35 |
| menesis | please | 19:36 |
| menesis | you are welcome :) | 19:37 |
| th1a | series flourish? | 19:38 |
| menesis | to match other projects, yes | 19:39 |
| menesis | i have also published the old book to http://book.schooltool.org/trunk/ | 19:39 |
| menesis | monday | 19:39 |
| th1a | Yes, thanks. | 19:40 |
| replaceafill | menesis, nice! | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | now i can add bugs for the book ;) | 19:41 |
| menesis | yes :) | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | menesis, are you doing one for the website? | 19:41 |
| menesis | lp:schooltool.org or lp:schooltool-org? | 19:41 |
| replaceafill | your call :D | 19:42 |
| menesis | will do later, with the dot | 19:42 |
| * menesis has to go home | 19:42 | |
| replaceafill | kk | 19:42 |
| replaceafill | thanks menesis | 19:42 |
| menesis | th1a: I need the three images for branding on launchpad | 19:42 |
| replaceafill | menesis, http://www.schwadesign.com/basecamp/2591274/2682003phase1/SchoolTool_png_and_ico.zip | 19:45 |
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| th1a | Actually, I should probably ask Vinny for fresh versions because mine are all flat at the bottom for some reason. | 19:51 |
| * replaceafill looks his logos | 19:52 | |
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