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| aelkner | yvl, ayt? | 15:31 |
|---|---|---|
| jelkner | aelkner, hi from pycon, bro! | 15:32 |
| aelkner | hey jelkner, how's it going? | 15:32 |
| jelkner | incredible! | 15:32 |
| yvl | yes aelkner | 15:32 |
| aelkner | did i miss a memo saying there's no meeting? | 15:32 |
| jelkner | i don't think so | 15:32 |
| jelkner | i know replaceafill had his alarm set | 15:33 |
| jelkner | i wonder if the change in time confused th1a? | 15:33 |
| replaceafill | :) | 15:33 |
| aelkner | could be | 15:33 |
| yvl | meeting starts in an hour | 15:39 |
| replaceafill | :| | 15:39 |
| aelkner | where did you see that? | 15:39 |
| yvl | or did the time change again | 15:39 |
| aelkner | yes, the time changed again | 15:40 |
| aelkner | what time is it there? | 15:40 |
| aelkner | and is it going to change for you soon? | 15:40 |
| yvl | it's 15:40 EET, and 8:40 EST | 15:41 |
| yvl | and 13:41 UTC | 15:41 |
| aelkner | it's not 8:40 EST, it's 9:40 | 15:41 |
| jelkner | yvl and 9:40 "daylight savings time" | 15:41 |
| jelkner | aelkner, there is another letter for our current time | 15:41 |
| jelkner | it isn't EST | 15:41 |
| yvl | it's EDT, right? | 15:42 |
| jelkner | yvl, i think so | 15:42 |
| yvl | 9:42 EDT, at least in NYC | 15:42 |
| aelkner | yvl, can we talk intervention catalog in the meantime? | 15:43 |
| * yvl ducks and covers | 15:44 | |
| aelkner | :) | 15:44 |
| yvl | let me just get my coffee :) | 15:45 |
| yvl | 5-7 mins ;) | 15:45 |
| aelkner | np | 15:45 |
| jelkner | btw. replaceafill (with support of the zope community here) has turned us all into pyramid fans | 15:45 |
| replaceafill | nah, mark ramm did it | 15:46 |
| replaceafill | he was the one who convinced you | 15:46 |
| jelkner | nah, it was replaceafill, mark ramm just helped ;-) | 15:46 |
| jelkner | its true that mark's talk was the "tipping point" though | 15:46 |
| jelkner | but i was only even at that talk because of replaceafill | 15:47 |
| jelkner | so now fsufitchi and replaceafill are writing pybookbuilder in pyramid | 15:48 |
| replaceafill | you'd still be following massimo if mark wouldnt have made that comment at the end ;) | 15:48 |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 15:52 | |
| jelkner | replaceafill, dots, dots... ;-) | 15:52 |
| th1a | It isn't meeting time yet by utc, right? | 15:52 |
| * th1a just woke up from his daylight savings time transition nap. | 15:53 | |
| * replaceafill wonders when is UTC going to change... | 15:53 | |
| jelkner | th1a: will meetings be at 10 am now? | 15:53 |
| th1a | No, we (I) just never remember to change the meeting time before DST changes. | 15:54 |
| jelkner | th1a: you mean your alarm | 15:54 |
| th1a | So we traditionally have one odd meeting at the shift. | 15:54 |
| th1a | No... next week we'll meet earlier by UTC, at 9:30 EDT. | 15:55 |
| * yvl is back | 15:55 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o yvl | 15:57 | |
| *** yvl changes topic to "SchoolTool development | IRC logs at http://source.schooltool.org/irclogs/ | SchoolTool Dev meetings Mon, 13:30 UTC (15:30 EET, 9:30 EDT) | Use http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool for pasting" | 15:57 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o yvl | 15:57 | |
| yvl | there, it's fixed | 15:57 |
| th1a | Thanks, yvl. | 15:58 |
| yvl | my pleasure :) | 15:58 |
| yvl | aelkner, ping | 16:03 |
| aelkner | yes | 16:05 |
| aelkner | yvl, can we talk catalog? | 16:06 |
| yvl | sur | 16:06 |
| yvl | e | 16:06 |
| th1a | Feel free to just start the meeting... ;-) | 16:06 |
| * th1a is still feeling a little woozy. | 16:06 | |
| yvl | aelkner, do you have some specific questions in mind? | 16:07 |
| aelkner | no, just confusion :) | 16:07 |
| aelkner | and i didn't wake up in a good sleep cycle, so my head is swimming | 16:08 |
| yvl | oh :) | 16:09 |
| yvl | it seems that daylight change hit you hard | 16:09 |
| yvl | so... anything specific you're confused about? | 16:09 |
| aelkner | well, i'm not sure your note exactly suggested a solution to the problem | 16:10 |
| yvl | it did not, actually | 16:10 |
| yvl | you'll need to put "XXX: these indexes are not updated when IContact changes" | 16:11 |
| yvl | it just needs some work in core | 16:11 |
| aelkner | ok, i have a first question | 16:12 |
| yvl | cool :) | 16:12 |
| aelkner | so forgetting evolution for the moment | 16:13 |
| aelkner | when i changed the persons_responsible/recipients attributes to be relationship properties | 16:13 |
| aelkner | that caused the getPersonsResponsible adapter used by the catalog to return the contact list | 16:14 |
| aelkner | as a property rather than a list of ids | 16:14 |
| aelkner | is that wrong already? | 16:15 |
| yvl | no, it's fine | 16:16 |
| yvl | but you should use a different converter for the index | 16:17 |
| yvl | getPersonsResponsibleIntIds(object) | 16:19 |
| yvl | that returns, say, a tuple of int ids for IInterventionPersonsResponsible(object) | 16:19 |
| yvl | on the other hand | 16:20 |
| yvl | umm, scrap that | 16:20 |
| yvl | I don't want to dvelve too deep today :) | 16:21 |
| yvl | I was going to comment on IInterventionMarker interface having no attributes or whatever, but when you adapt an object, you suddenly expect attributes like created | 16:22 |
| aelkner | i was already thinking of getting rid of IInterventionMarker | 16:23 |
| yvl | cool! :) | 16:23 |
| aelkner | and just adapting each object separately | 16:23 |
| aelkner | i see now that such a design is better, more explicit | 16:23 |
| aelkner | but when could you delve deeper, tomorrow? | 16:26 |
| yvl | oh, I can today :) | 16:26 |
| yvl | I just thought you are somewhat sleepy :) | 16:26 |
| yvl | so | 16:26 |
| aelkner | well, unfortunately, i am, but i'll make due | 16:26 |
| yvl | say, we get rid of the intervention marker | 16:27 |
| * yvl is looking at the code | 16:28 | |
| * yvl still looking | 16:31 | |
| aelkner | yvl, i had a thought | 16:32 |
| aelkner | how soon could you get started tomorrow morning your time? | 16:32 |
| aelkner | i could program my sleep clock to still be awake then | 16:32 |
| aelkner | and have a chance to look at your contact branch | 16:33 |
| yvl | hmm, we can do that | 16:34 |
| yvl | how about 2AM your time? | 16:35 |
| aelkner | that sounds relaly good for me | 16:35 |
| aelkner | really | 16:36 |
| aelkner | in the meantime, regarding the widget __init__ | 16:36 |
| aelkner | i thought about having properties for things like student and choices | 16:37 |
| aelkner | but that means calculating them each time they are needed | 16:37 |
| aelkner | which seems awfully inefficient | 16:37 |
| yvl | Right | 16:37 |
| aelkner | that's why i chose to set them in __init__ and be done wth it | 16:37 |
| yvl | but you could set them in other method | 16:38 |
| yvl | s | 16:38 |
| yvl | and call those methods from __init__ if you really need to | 16:38 |
| aelkner | do you mean still do the math in the __init__ step, just break the code out into separate methods | 16:38 |
| aelkner | that are called from __ini__? | 16:38 |
| aelkner | for clarity sake? | 16:39 |
| yvl | yes | 16:39 |
| yvl | yes | 16:39 |
| aelkner | oh fine, consider it done :) | 16:39 |
| yvl | and also - isAdding just creeps me out | 16:39 |
| yvl | if you had separate methods | 16:39 |
| yvl | it would also be possible to just write a child class | 16:39 |
| yvl | that calculates two or three things differently | 16:39 |
| yvl | as in - gets the student in a different way, so on | 16:40 |
| yvl | one more thing | 16:40 |
| yvl | there's from zope.cachedescriptors.property import Lazy | 16:40 |
| yvl | I'm not a big fan of it, but you can do | 16:40 |
| yvl | @Lazy | 16:40 |
| yvl | def calculate_a_lot(self): | 16:41 |
| yvl | return [1,2,3] | 16:41 |
| yvl | the calculation is done once | 16:41 |
| yvl | of course it makes it easy to screw up in tests | 16:41 |
| yvl | when you forget that this value is actually cached | 16:41 |
| yvl | just so you know that it can be done if you really need to some time | 16:42 |
| aelkner | i would shy away from making the widget even more complex then it is, but... | 16:42 |
| yvl | well, it is actually made of two widgets, isn't it? | 16:43 |
| yvl | one - normal | 16:43 |
| yvl | as in - editing | 16:43 |
| yvl | another - adding | 16:43 |
| yvl | they differ very little, but they do differ | 16:43 |
| aelkner | yes | 16:43 |
| yvl | so splitting into two widgets should yield two simpler widgets | 16:43 |
| yvl | slightly simpler | 16:43 |
| yvl | I'm not asking to do that now, btw | 16:44 |
| yvl | but separating calculation from __init__ to separate methods is a step in that direction | 16:44 |
| yvl | +hopefully better readability | 16:44 |
| yvl | and it's easier to test of course | 16:44 |
| aelkner | how would the two separate widgets be registered? | 16:45 |
| th1a | You guys have five more minutes on this. | 16:45 |
| yvl | didn't think about it, frankly | 16:46 |
| yvl | thanks, th1a, we're rounding up I think | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | hey! yvl, nice moving format_table to trunk :) | 16:46 |
| * replaceafill is looking at yvl's timetable branch... | 16:46 | |
| yvl | :) | 16:46 |
| yvl | I think it was always in trunk | 16:47 |
| aelkner | we can table the rest of the discussion for 2AM | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | yvl, i'm looking for those forms you showed in the sprint, are they here? | 16:47 |
| yvl | nope, no UI changes for tts | 16:47 |
| yvl | old interface stays this time | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | :( | 16:47 |
| aelkner | yvl, in the meantime, could you email me how to register the widgets separately for add and edit views? | 16:47 |
| yvl | I'll look into it | 16:48 |
| yvl | it's one of those things that I assume that can be done somehow :) | 16:48 |
| aelkner | ok, thanks | 16:48 |
| aelkner | th1a, shall i just report? | 16:49 |
| aelkner | well, i'll take that as a yes :) | 16:50 |
| aelkner | so last week i did the changes for contact properties in intervention messages and goals | 16:51 |
| th1a | Sorry, I had a phone call. | 16:52 |
| aelkner | yvl looked them over and has some minor suggestions for fixes, but mostly i think he is ok wth them | 16:52 |
| yvl | yes I am :) | 16:52 |
| aelkner | the only outstanding issue is something we didn't discuss in setting the bonus target which is the catalog | 16:53 |
| aelkner | it is a sticky issue that i don't think yvl even has a clear plan for | 16:53 |
| aelkner | see, the advantage of relationships is the magical removal of links | 16:53 |
| aelkner | so that when a contact is removed | 16:53 |
| aelkner | it's presence in a message or goal will automatically disappear | 16:54 |
| aelkner | no more orphaned ids as before | 16:54 |
| aelkner | unfortunately, with the catalog, no such magic exists | 16:54 |
| aelkner | if a contact is present in the intervention catalog | 16:55 |
| aelkner | and it is removed by user action, it will still be sitting in the catalog | 16:55 |
| aelkner | yvl, am i right about that? | 16:56 |
| yvl | yes | 16:56 |
| yvl | I just never got to implementing proper relationship catalogs | 16:57 |
| aelkner | anyway, i'll do what i can to get that to work this week along with the test coverage i promissed | 16:57 |
| aelkner | to keep on schedule and all | 16:57 |
| aelkner | yvl and i will meet later tonight for me, tomorrow morning for him | 16:58 |
| aelkner | but oterwise, that's my report | 16:58 |
| th1a | Thanks, aelkner. | 16:59 |
| th1a | replaceafill? | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | ok | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | i took friday off because of the conference, but i finished updating the average formulas for cambodia | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | i also added edit buttons for levels and classes | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | as part of: | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | * Improve navigation and action buttons now that most default | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | suscribers are turned off | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | right now, i'm modifying the teachers add/edit forms to make assinging a teacher to a subject easier | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | yvl, that's why i was interested in seeing your forms :( | 17:03 |
| yvl | oh | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | and for this week, i'm going to implement the feature requested by javier of disconnecting subjects from a level | 17:04 |
| yvl | hmm, is there anything in particular that interests you? | 17:04 |
| yvl | (they're not that good in my opinion) | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | yvl, i just wanted to see all those comments you had in your code about the weirdness of z3c.form :) | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | they looked like warnings for me :D | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | "dont do this", "you have to do this because of this..." and such | 17:06 |
| replaceafill | and mostly, how you created those custom widgets, with dropdowns and stuff :) | 17:07 |
| yvl | those are mostly my issues with list widget something and of course the ****** object widget | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | anyway, th1a, i also would like your comments on the uruguay sugar event, maybe after the meeting | 17:07 |
| th1a | What are your comments about it? | 17:08 |
| th1a | I mean, would it be a good venue for you to promote SchoolTool to the OLPC community? | 17:08 |
| th1a | Do you have a link handy for that? | 17:08 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i liked that people interested in schooltool like tony anderson is possibly attending | 17:08 |
| th1a | It wouldn't be expensive, right? | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | and that there's people from the #treehouse group coming also | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | they're the ones who provided the VM for the salvadorean pilot | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | th1a, right, that's a negative factor i guess | 17:09 |
| th1a | It would or wouldn't? | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | it would | 17:10 |
| th1a | Because? | 17:10 |
| replaceafill | because of the plane ticket | 17:10 |
| th1a | What, like $1000? | 17:10 |
| replaceafill | the "big" airlines take me first to miami or houston and then to uruguay... | 17:10 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:11 |
| replaceafill | i was thinking of maybe going by bus to panama and take a flight there | 17:11 |
| replaceafill | it would be much much cheaper | 17:11 |
| replaceafill | but i have to find out | 17:11 |
| replaceafill | i'll look today and report back | 17:11 |
| replaceafill | ok? | 17:11 |
| * replaceafill is of course interested in attending :) | 17:11 | |
| th1a | OK. | 17:11 |
| th1a | I think it would be worth doing. | 17:11 |
| th1a | Will this be mostly a Spanish-speaking meeting? | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | i guess both | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | people from the US is coming | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | and from other south american countries | 17:12 |
| th1a | Well, if anyone is from the US, everyone has to speak English. | 17:12 |
| th1a | That's the rule. | 17:12 |
| aelkner | :) | 17:13 |
| replaceafill | right | 17:13 |
| * th1a is happy to be the hegemon. | 17:13 | |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:13 |
| th1a | For now... | 17:13 |
| th1a | OK, thanks replaceafill. | 17:13 |
| replaceafill | ok, i guess that's it from me | 17:13 |
| replaceafill | thanks | 17:13 |
| th1a | No, thank you! | 17:13 |
| th1a | yvl? | 17:13 |
| yvl | well, timetable wizzard finally works | 17:14 |
| th1a | Yay! | 17:14 |
| yvl | true :) | 17:14 |
| yvl | and basically that's it | 17:15 |
| yvl | I'll be working on other views this week | 17:15 |
| yvl | I also spent some time helping Alan | 17:15 |
| th1a | Cool. | 17:16 |
| yvl | and some time on thinking about things missing in core | 17:16 |
| yvl | interventions module clearly points to some very reasonable API missing | 17:16 |
| yvl | and by thinking I meant - trying to decide | 17:17 |
| yvl | if this should be just fixed in intervention | 17:17 |
| yvl | or it's something I'll need to develop soonish, and when's the best time to do that | 17:17 |
| yvl | relationships will need a little love | 17:18 |
| yvl | catalogs, also | 17:18 |
| yvl | and something along the lines of weak reference | 17:18 |
| yvl | basically wrap around int ids | 17:18 |
| yvl | ok, that's my report | 17:19 |
| yvl | oh, and NotYet exceptions annoyed me to no end | 17:19 |
| th1a | Thanks yvl. | 17:19 |
| th1a | menesis? | 17:19 |
| menesis | nothing important to report | 17:20 |
| menesis | have been upgrading zope packages | 17:20 |
| replaceafill | menesis, thanks for your reply to my skin resources question :) | 17:20 |
| menesis | that are there since lucid but have deferred upgrading them to our versions.cfg till after alpha 3 | 17:21 |
| menesis | had problems with packaging branches, but now I know how to workaround that | 17:21 |
| menesis | still todo < 10 packages | 17:22 |
| *** jelkner has quit IRC | 17:23 | |
| menesis | have looked at recent bugfix releases to include | 17:23 |
| menesis | about the packages that are new in natty | 17:23 |
| menesis | including schooltool packages | 17:24 |
| menesis | I asked cjwatson to add the new packages to my packagesets | 17:24 |
| menesis | twice | 17:24 |
| menesis | but had no reply since Mar 3 | 17:25 |
| th1a | Let me know if that's getting critical timeline-wise. | 17:25 |
| th1a | Anything else, menesis? | 17:27 |
| menesis | I would like to make a b1 release at the end of this week | 17:28 |
| th1a | Sounds good to me. | 17:28 |
| menesis | there are two bugs preventing installation that I wanted to upload two weeks ago | 17:29 |
| menesis | so I'm getting impatient | 17:29 |
| th1a | Yes, I know. | 17:29 |
| menesis | I still have to merge translations before making a release | 17:30 |
| th1a | A little nagging becomes necessary. | 17:30 |
| menesis | had this planned for last week, but not finished | 17:30 |
| menesis | btw, replaceafill's gradebook branch was merged at the start of march, finally :) | 17:31 |
| th1a | Ah. Good. | 17:31 |
| replaceafill | menesis, yeah i noticed, thanks! | 17:31 |
| menesis | sorry it took so long | 17:32 |
| menesis | big branch to review! | 17:32 |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:32 |
| menesis | I do not see any merge requests, are there any branches that people want merged before release? | 17:32 |
| replaceafill | oops! the footer one i think | 17:33 |
| replaceafill | i'll make the request | 17:33 |
| th1a | Yes, please. | 17:33 |
| menesis | I have not read all the scrollback of this meeting, please repeat so that I don't miss anything | 17:33 |
| menesis | will read later | 17:33 |
| th1a | OK, thanks, menesis. | 17:34 |
| th1a | I guess I decided I'm going to try to find a designer for the homepage/book. | 17:34 |
| th1a | So then I had to start writing up an explanation of the task, | 17:34 |
| th1a | and that led to the "SchoolTool brand values" issue. | 17:35 |
| th1a | Basically it is relevant because the tone of a "teachers working with teachers" project ("Get Involved!") is different than an "Open source tools for NGO's and governments" one. | 17:36 |
| th1a | And really we're more of the second now. | 17:36 |
| th1a | But yes, I have to explain to the designer what feel we want. | 17:36 |
| th1a | I'll send a draft of the design brief today after I look over it again. | 17:37 |
| th1a | Also, Pandaboard performance is much better with the SSD drive. We need the SchoolTool benchmarking suite. | 17:38 |
| yvl | :D | 17:38 |
| yvl | I really really would like to do that :) | 17:38 |
| th1a | Well, hopefully this year. | 17:39 |
| replaceafill | menesis, merge requested | 17:39 |
| th1a | Also, replaceafill, I've exchanged a couple emails with a CS person in Vietnam who is interested in SchoolTool for a K-12 school SIS project there. | 17:40 |
| replaceafill | ah yes!!! | 17:40 |
| th1a | I'm going to refer him to you on details of what you've been doing with Cambodia. | 17:40 |
| replaceafill | lots of interesting questions from him | 17:40 |
| th1a | Yes. The big question there also suggests we need benchmarks -- how many SchoolTools can you run on a central server. | 17:41 |
| th1a | Of course it depends on what you're doing with them. | 17:41 |
| yvl | th1a, just to check | 17:41 |
| yvl | umm | 17:41 |
| yvl | ST as a service for multiple schools is not our focus at the moment, right? | 17:42 |
| th1a | I'm definitely in favor of multi-school reporting, etc. being a completely separate application which we aren't interested in writing. | 17:42 |
| yvl | where multiple > 100 | 17:42 |
| yvl | or > 20 for that matter | 17:42 |
| th1a | I've been discouraged lately from thinking running multiple schools in one instance was a big advantage over multiple instances. | 17:43 |
| th1a | yvl: Essentially no. | 17:43 |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 17:43 | |
| th1a | It is not our focus. | 17:43 |
| yvl | ok | 17:44 |
| yvl | I'm just thinking about performance, etc. | 17:44 |
| yvl | by the way | 17:46 |
| yvl | some time ago you wrote about forking | 17:46 |
| yvl | I think that at some distant time in the future | 17:46 |
| yvl | there is a possibility of having multiple configurations essentially without forking | 17:47 |
| th1a | Codebase forking or process forking? | 17:47 |
| yvl | codebase | 17:47 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:47 |
| th1a | OK, let's wrap this up. | 17:48 |
| th1a | Have a great week gentlemen. | 17:48 |
| yvl | I kind of have this gut feeling that we could achieve little forking and "by techers for teachers" feel at some point | 17:48 |
| th1a | Meeting at 9:30 EDT next week. | 17:48 |
| replaceafill | thanks everybody | 17:48 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:49 | |
| yvl | maybe we could simply chat about that at some point... maybe next sprint | 17:49 |
| yvl | thanks guys! | 17:49 |
| replaceafill | btw, i'm flying back home next wednesday, so i'll be probably offline | 17:49 |
| replaceafill | (unless AA gives free wifi in the plane again!) | 17:49 |
| yvl | free wifi on airplanes | 17:49 |
| yvl | now that is something | 17:50 |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:50 |
| replaceafill | complementary wifi by HP | 17:50 |
| yvl | :D | 17:50 |
| replaceafill | (im going to buy another printer when i get back) ;) | 17:50 |
| th1a | lol | 17:50 |
| yvl | :DDDD | 17:50 |
| th1a | iPaq! | 17:50 |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:50 |
| * aelkner takes a nap to be fresh for 2am meeting with yvl :) | 17:52 | |
| yvl | good night, aelkner :) | 17:53 |
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