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| aks | yvl: http://blog.olenepal.org/index.php/archives/375 -- my blogpost on packaging schooltool for Fedora | 12:24 |
|---|---|---|
| yvl | cool post, aks :) | 12:28 |
| yvl | thanks! | 12:28 |
| aks | yvl: :) | 12:28 |
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| th1a | yvl: Do you have Go To Meeting set up? | 16:22 |
| yvl | morning th1a | 16:23 |
| yvl | yes | 16:23 |
| yvl | up and running | 16:23 |
| th1a | Cool. | 16:23 |
| th1a | This is like working for a real business! | 16:23 |
| th1a | All grown up! | 16:23 |
| replaceafill | :)) | 16:23 |
| th1a | Wearing my big boy pants! | 16:23 |
| yvl | and a tie! | 16:24 |
| replaceafill | :| | 16:24 |
| yvl | it's not a business if there's no tie. | 16:24 |
| th1a | It is still IT. | 16:24 |
| yvl | :))) | 16:24 |
| yvl | by the way, menesis is not using Windows or Mac OS | 16:24 |
| th1a | I'm just wearing jeans instead of pyjamas. | 16:24 |
| th1a | Hm... | 16:25 |
| yvl | so he won't participate in GoToMeeting part | 16:25 |
| th1a | Does he have Skype working? | 16:25 |
| yvl | yes | 16:25 |
| menesis | I can try to reboot into windows | 16:25 |
| th1a | I don't even know what Go To Meeting does. | 16:25 |
| menesis | but I won't have any info, notes or tools | 16:26 |
| menesis | not sure if I need anything | 16:26 |
| menesis | my skype is menes.is | 16:28 |
| yvl | mine is justas.pov | 16:29 |
| replaceafill | good luck guys :) | 16:30 |
| yvl | thanks :) | 16:31 |
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| th1a | replaceafill: You've just been left out for the sake of simplicity. | 16:32 |
| replaceafill | sure, np | 16:33 |
| th1a | That went much more smoothly without the marketing department involved. :-D | 17:42 |
| yvl | right :) | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | just geeks? | 17:43 |
| yvl | the first thought was "well, that went well" :) | 17:43 |
| yvl | well, geeks and their managers :) | 17:44 |
| th1a | Managers who are geeks. | 17:44 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Looks like 2,000 sites coming in Argentina. | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | !!! | 17:45 |
| th1a | Latin America FTQ! | 17:45 |
| th1a | FTW! | 17:45 |
| th1a | I mean. | 17:45 |
| th1a | lol | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:45 |
| yvl | ah, th1a, no offense on the manager part | 17:47 |
| yvl | I keep forgetting that there are managers in the world, that are _not_ geeks | 17:47 |
| yvl | ... got used to the good life :) | 17:47 |
| yvl | hmm, I forgot to ask them how's the usability company called :/ | 17:48 |
| th1a | Well, I forget that there are marketing departments in real life. | 17:48 |
| yvl | it's gonna be an interesting meeting in Feb... | 17:50 |
| th1a | Indeed. | 17:50 |
| yvl | I got an impression that our goals are quite aligned | 17:50 |
| yvl | I mean - what we want to do with ST and what they want ST to do | 17:51 |
| yvl | and what we/they don't want ST to do | 17:51 |
| th1a | Yes, pretty much. | 17:51 |
| th1a | It is also the stage of development SchoolTool has arrived at. | 17:51 |
| th1a | It isn't like it is just half done and you have to decide which parts of the other half are most important. | 17:52 |
| th1a | It's like a car with a few parts that need fixed. | 17:52 |
| yvl | yes, it's more than a calendar nowadays ;) | 17:53 |
| th1a | It is pretty obvious if your brakes need work and there's a hole in the muffler. | 17:53 |
| yvl | right :) | 17:54 |
| menesis | talking about Moodle, it contains a Gradebook since 1.9 | 18:00 |
| menesis | and alternative plugins like gradebook plus. moodle has lots of plugins in fact. | 18:02 |
| menesis | unlike us | 18:03 |
| th1a | Moodle is immeasurably huge. | 18:03 |
| th1a | It has also been around longer. | 18:03 |
| yvl | and as Alex correcly pointed out, has different parts that it focuses on | 18:04 |
| th1a | And yes, looking at it your first reaction will be "Why does anyone even need SchoolTool?" | 18:04 |
| th1a | And the main answer is that Moodle has no concept of time or history. | 18:04 |
| th1a | You use Moodle for gradebook but not report cards or transcripts. | 18:05 |
| menesis | so we have something that Moodle doesn't offer | 18:06 |
| th1a | And never will. | 18:06 |
| th1a | It is just outside their model entirely. | 18:06 |
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| menesis | but we really need to integrate with it | 18:06 |
| th1a | Yes, it would be a major feature. | 18:07 |
| th1a | We just can't drive that process. | 18:07 |
| th1a | Basically, in Moodle 2.0 they were planning on (and I hope they achieved) a much better separation between model and view. | 18:08 |
| th1a | So then they could do web services correctly. | 18:08 |
| th1a | When everything is just PHP web templates, that's a hard transistion to make. | 18:08 |
| th1a | Also, it is not something I'd "bet the company" on, because as a Python app we're less well positioned than PHP apps. | 18:09 |
| th1a | Several PHP "SIS for Moodle" projects have been announced but I've not really heard if anything came of them. | 18:09 |
| th1a | But it would be hard to compete for that niche with a PHP app designed specifically at that purpose. | 18:10 |
| yvl | it's just that it's really difficult to write an universal SIS | 18:11 |
| yvl | as opposed to country-specific SIS | 18:11 |
| th1a | That too. | 18:12 |
| th1a | But you could do a fairly simple and generic SIS that just piggybacked on Moodle, maybe peeked into its database. | 18:13 |
| th1a | Archived grades, etc. | 18:13 |
| th1a | Thanks guys. That went really well. | 18:14 |
| * th1a goes to run some errands. | 18:14 | |
| yvl | Thanks th1a | 18:14 |
| yvl | exciting times... :) | 18:14 |
| replaceafill | :) | 18:14 |
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| fsufitch | replaceafill: ping | 22:06 |
| replaceafill | hey fsufitch! | 22:06 |
| fsufitch | dwelsh said i should talk to you about how badly i broke the gradebook | 22:06 |
| replaceafill | :D | 22:06 |
| replaceafill | was it you?!?!? (kidding) | 22:07 |
| fsufitch | well it was me who wrote it, so supposedly? but i don't know what i coded in there that would break upon connection loss | 22:07 |
| fsufitch | no AJAX was involved... | 22:07 |
| replaceafill | the thing was that the gradebook view required 2 views to run at the same time | 22:07 |
| replaceafill | one for spitting the html | 22:07 |
| replaceafill | and the other for the javascript | 22:08 |
| replaceafill | so, it seems like the javascript one can run slower than the html one | 22:08 |
| replaceafill | and that breaks the javascript logic | 22:08 |
| fsufitch | that makes sense | 22:08 |
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| fsufitch | wah! i got disconnected for some reason | 22:09 |
| replaceafill | :) | 22:09 |
| fsufitch | but yeah that makes sense why it would fail at first, i dont know how it broke later stuff once the javascript loaded | 22:09 |
| fsufitch | but i guess you figured it out | 22:10 |
| replaceafill | so, i fix it by moving the dynamic parts of the javascript view to the html template | 22:10 |
| fsufitch | i see | 22:10 |
| replaceafill | and made the static parts a file resource | 22:10 |
| replaceafill | so, you don't have that 'race' condition anymore | 22:10 |
| replaceafill | (if that's the right term to use :D) | 22:10 |
| fsufitch | yeah | 22:10 |
| replaceafill | but i'm glad you're back :) | 22:10 |
| fsufitch | i think actually when i first coded it i thought racing might be a problem, but none of the testing indicated it, so i left it as is | 22:10 |
| fsufitch | i am too :) | 22:10 |
| replaceafill | yes, it was a bug hard to find | 22:11 |
| replaceafill | i only could see it in my laptop after changing the competency group dropdown really fast | 22:11 |
| replaceafill | several times | 22:11 |
| fsufitch | haha | 22:11 |
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| fsufitch | did you fix it via a test? | 22:11 |
| fsufitch | or was that even testable, really? | 22:11 |
| replaceafill | not really | 22:12 |
| fsufitch | allright | 22:12 |
| replaceafill | i just recorded a selenium script | 22:12 |
| replaceafill | and move code around | 22:12 |
| replaceafill | and rerun the script | 22:12 |
| fsufitch | ah ok | 22:12 |
| replaceafill | but some teachers have said it works for them now :) | 22:13 |
| replaceafill | now, i'm cleaning a lot of onclick='...' attributes in the template | 22:13 |
| fsufitch | hmm did i make a mess of those? | 22:13 |
| replaceafill | it's not a mess, it's just that if you have like 10 students and 10 competencies, you get a lot of strings | 22:14 |
| replaceafill | bloated html | 22:14 |
| fsufitch | ah | 22:15 |
| replaceafill | moving all of those to a single jquery call | 22:15 |
| fsufitch | i see | 22:15 |
| fsufitch | yeah that's neater | 22:15 |
| fsufitch | i dont think i was too familiar with jQuery at the time i wrote that | 22:15 |
| replaceafill | you did a good job :) | 22:15 |
| replaceafill | it works great | 22:15 |
| fsufitch | :D | 22:16 |
| fsufitch | well other than breaking when you click stuff really fast | 22:16 |
| replaceafill | :)) | 22:16 |
| fsufitch | so, im apparently going to be back on the team for the Course object upgrades | 22:18 |
| fsufitch | that, plus until the funding clears, on jelkner's pybookbuilder idea | 22:19 |
| replaceafill | ah yes, i'm looking forward to see both of those :) | 22:19 |
| fsufitch | a very rudimentary version of pybookbuilder is running here http://www.opensourcenerd.com:8000/pybookbuilder | 22:20 |
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| replaceafill | what does Compile book do? | 22:22 |
| fsufitch | it took a bit getting used to web2py's "loose" way of doing stuff (such as globals that you don't import, etc) but it seems fun | 22:22 |
| fsufitch | compile book takes all the restructuredtext for all the chapters of the book, and updates the HTML of the chapters | 22:22 |
| replaceafill | ah | 22:22 |
| fsufitch | it's going to go away hopefully once i make it change-aware, so it knows changes were made and the html needs to be recompiled before seeing it | 22:22 |
| fsufitch | so it does the compilation once you click to view the html | 22:23 |
| fsufitch | (also avoids recompilation when there were no changes) | 22:23 |
| replaceafill | i remember i had that conversation with jelkner :D | 22:23 |
| replaceafill | he wanted something like 'unpubished' changes or something | 22:23 |
| fsufitch | that plus things such as auto-saving edits, a more comprehensive editor, actual CSS for both the page and for the generated HTML books, etc | 22:24 |
| fsufitch | what's running now is VERY rudimentary | 22:24 |
| fsufitch | but it's a start | 22:24 |
| replaceafill | good start | 22:24 |
| fsufitch | web2py is in fact so cool that i'm tempted to rewrite my blog using it | 22:25 |
| fsufitch | just so it's much easier to code extensions | 22:25 |
| fsufitch | but then it's also so inconvenient since i'm using ZODB for my blog's storage right now and i REALLY don't want to handle that migration to SQLite or something | 22:26 |
| replaceafill | that would take some work for sure | 22:27 |
| fsufitch | if you're curious about pybookbuilder's code, it's lp:pybookbuilder | 22:29 |
| fsufitch | put the resulting directory into the applications/ dir of web2py | 22:29 |
| fsufitch | easy_install Sphinx | 22:29 |
| replaceafill | buildout! :D | 22:30 |
| fsufitch | and then when you run web2py, pybookbuilder will be at the /pybookbuilder url of the server | 22:30 |
| fsufitch | ehh i didnt set up buildout yet :-P | 22:30 |
| fsufitch | hush | 22:30 |
| fsufitch | that and im not 100% sure how buildout even works | 22:30 |
| fsufitch | that is something that i should learn though | 22:30 |
| replaceafill | mr.developer makes easy to work with branches | 22:30 |
| replaceafill | you can tell buildout to get your branch and use it like an egg, etc | 22:31 |
| fsufitch | yeah i guess | 22:31 |
| fsufitch | something i can use it for too is to install the latest sphinx as a dir inside web2py | 22:31 |
| aelkner | hey fsufitch | 22:33 |
| fsufitch | but right now im just waiting for jelkner to play with it a bit and give me some idea of some new user stories | 22:33 |
| fsufitch | ello aelkner | 22:33 |
| aelkner | nice to have you back :) | 22:33 |
| fsufitch | nice to be back :) | 22:33 |
| aelkner | i'm also glad to see my efforts of half a year ago won't go to waste | 22:34 |
| fsufitch | for the new Course object? | 22:34 |
| aelkner | yeah, i assume you've looked at welsh's doc | 22:34 |
| fsufitch | yeah ive got it here | 22:35 |
| fsufitch | im actually at the ACC right now | 22:35 |
| fsufitch | met with jelkner and dwelsh | 22:35 |
| aelkner | he did a nice job interviewing me at the end of the weekend i spent with his brother | 22:35 |
| fsufitch | yup | 22:35 |
| aelkner | and putting it into a project management doc | 22:35 |
| aelkner | so you have a good place to start there | 22:35 |
| fsufitch | i have his brother's FileMaker thing too | 22:36 |
| aelkner | yeah, you'll need that | 22:36 |
| aelkner | you'll be creating a schooltool package that will complement the FileMaker program | 22:36 |
| fsufitch | yup | 22:36 |
| fsufitch | you mean, essentially implement what's illustrated in filemaker | 22:36 |
| aelkner | oh, maybe i'm confusing the two things | 22:37 |
| aelkner | i know david's brother made an app | 22:37 |
| aelkner | i thought that was in FileMaker | 22:37 |
| aelkner | maybe it's not | 22:37 |
| fsufitch | yeah that's what i mean | 22:37 |
| fsufitch | but that operates on a filemaker database | 22:37 |
| fsufitch | not on zope | 22:37 |
| fsufitch | the filemaker app is more than anything just a sort of example framework of how the changes should work in zope | 22:38 |
| fsufitch | or so i understand | 22:38 |
| aelkner | from what i remember off hand, the schooltool package needs to export | 22:38 |
| aelkner | and there's another app that we need not write | 22:38 |
| aelkner | that jerry wrote and is very powerful | 22:39 |
| aelkner | and that app can import from the export from schooltool | 22:39 |
| aelkner | does that make sense, or has it changed? | 22:39 |
| fsufitch | i really don't know | 22:39 |
| fsufitch | im just getting back on track today :) | 22:39 |
| aelkner | oh, sorry, rushing ahear too fast :) | 22:40 |
| aelkner | anyway, welsh says he'll be at the Monday meeting, can you? | 22:40 |
| fsufitch | yup | 22:40 |
| fsufitch | i shall be there | 22:40 |
| aelkner | well, that's the time to discuss it then | 22:41 |
| fsufitch | yup | 22:41 |
| aelkner | it's going to be a really cool package in the end | 22:41 |
| fsufitch | yup! | 22:42 |
| fsufitch | plus im happy to have something productive to work on if school becomes mindnumbingly boring or something :) | 22:42 |
| aelkner | the real world does lend many interesting things to do | 22:43 |
| fsufitch | yup | 22:43 |
| fsufitch | i also talked to glenda and to lee capps | 22:46 |
| fsufitch | i will also be working with lee in the future for the new way to update competencies in cando, as hes coding a new API for it | 22:46 |
| fsufitch | JSON api, too, it makes me happy | 22:46 |
| replaceafill | good bye importers!! | 22:49 |
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| fsufitch | replaceafill: ping | 23:58 |
| replaceafill | fsufitch, pong | 23:59 |
| fsufitch | so, jelkner pointed me your way to ask about what format to use for my invoices | 23:59 |
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