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| th1a | hi yvl, replaceafill, aelkner. | 16:31 |
|---|---|---|
| yvl | morning :) | 16:31 |
| th1a | hi Lumiere. | 16:31 |
| replaceafill | good morning/afternoon | 16:31 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:31 |
| th1a | yvl: You don't happen to know where menesis is? | 16:32 |
| yvl | hmm, I saw an email saying he's on short vacation with his family, Fri-Mon | 16:32 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:33 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:33 |
| th1a | How's your vacation going? | 16:33 |
| yvl | pretty well, thank you :) | 16:33 |
| yvl | just dropped in to see what's new with ST :) | 16:34 |
| th1a | before I forget -- I need invoices from aelkner and replaceafill. | 16:34 |
| replaceafill | th1a, ah ok, will send it today | 16:34 |
| aelkner | me, too | 16:34 |
| th1a | So I got my Israeli Nokia unlocked and have all the proper adapters now. | 16:35 |
| th1a | I'll take a photo of the entire velcroed together contraption (including 4 port USB hub) today. | 16:35 |
| th1a | I haven't actually gotten it to work with the phone yet though. | 16:35 |
| th1a | Gnokki seems to connect to the phone, which is further than we've gotten before, but then just craps out in its annoying Gnokki way. | 16:36 |
| th1a | Doesn't actually do anything. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | sounds familiar (: | 16:37 |
| th1a | So I'm going to try pySerial today. | 16:37 |
| th1a | I have a deadline because I'm going to be showing it at Maker Faire Rhode Island at the end of the month. | 16:37 |
| th1a | OK, replaceafill? | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | ok | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | i fixed a couple of issues with cambodia forms last week | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | send javier an email with a few questions | 16:38 |
| replaceafill | haven't received his reply yet | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | i also started to work on the gradebook, even if i still have no feedback on my calculations | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | the report sheets need changes anyway | 16:39 |
| th1a | I was going to say maybe you should plow ahead with that. | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:40 |
| yvl | by the way, when is the Cambodia deployment "deadline"? | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | i also wanted to ask you if i can work in el salvador tasks while i wait for cambodia | 16:40 |
| th1a | Yes, you can do that. | 16:40 |
| th1a | Well, we should ask about the deadline. | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | cool | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | ah ok, noted, will ask that too | 16:41 |
| th1a | As far as I'm concerned, the whole thing is like a shark, we just have to keep it swimming forward. | 16:41 |
| th1a | The exact pace, well, there's not much we can do about it anyhow. | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | usually javier replies quickly | 16:42 |
| th1a | Yes... I mean the pace of actual deployment. | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | ah | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | got it | 16:43 |
| th1a | I don't mean go slow with development. ;-) | 16:43 |
| replaceafill | :D | 16:43 |
| th1a | Just that we're "pushing a string." | 16:43 |
| th1a | But the more active we are, the more they think about our project and its deployment, so it is important we constantly remind them that we're here. | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | also, lee caps sent a question which you saw | 16:45 |
| th1a | Particularly with Cambodia, which is important to *us*. Less so with, say, Shadoschools, who we haven't heard from in a while, but in that case, it doesn't affect the success of our project very much. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | i asked menesis for help because i didnt know what was the appropriate procedure | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | and i didnt want to disturb yvl's vacation :D | 16:45 |
| yvl | you should have ;) | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | no man, rest! :P | 16:46 |
| yvl | it's always better to have info, than be clueless a week later | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | sorry, true | 16:46 |
| th1a | Perhaps in the fall we can make a view that will clear the transaction queue and generate a backup. | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | i havent had problems with hot backups so far | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | but i always make them when nobody is using the system | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | acc and gctaa | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | midnights | 16:47 |
| yvl | please fwd the email | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i guess that is from me | 16:48 |
| replaceafill | yvl, will do right now | 16:48 |
| yvl | and on that note, if it's not too much trouble, please fwd all the converstaions with Cambodia :) | 16:48 |
| * yvl has no idea what is happening there at the moment :( | 16:48 | |
| replaceafill | yvl, of course | 16:48 |
| th1a | I guess the practical differences between repozo and a hot cp is 1) incremental backups, which we don't even necessarily want for non-expert users; | 16:48 |
| yvl | thanks :) | 16:48 |
| replaceafill | yvl, sorry i thought it could be nont interesting traffic... | 16:48 |
| replaceafill | but i understand now | 16:48 |
| replaceafill | i'll cc you from now on | 16:49 |
| th1a | 2) the possibility of getting half a transaction at the end of the file with cp, compared to not getting it at all with repozo. | 16:49 |
| yvl | well, everything related to ST is interesting ;) | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | true | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i didnt understand why the procedure is difficult | 16:49 |
| aelkner | what is this repozo thing? | 16:49 |
| yvl | If I recall correctly, ZODB should ignore "half-appended" transactions... | 16:49 |
| replaceafill | or why lee sees it difficult | 16:49 |
| th1a | repozo is a script that does hot backups of a ZODB. | 16:51 |
| yvl | aelkner, see http://wiki.zope.org/ZODB/FileStorageBackup | 16:51 |
| replaceafill | the way i do it (i learned it from Lumiere) is that i set a cronjob at 1 am, copy the Data.fs, zip it and put it somewhere, people can go later to take the zip and try | 16:51 |
| th1a | Actually, the most interesting question is why exactly the school which started this conversation lose data? | 16:53 |
| replaceafill | right | 16:53 |
| th1a | So perhaps we should take that up at some point. | 16:54 |
| th1a | replaceafill, I know we talked about what needs to be done to report sheets, but perhaps you can remind us. | 16:55 |
| th1a | I think aelkner needs the same thing. | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | ah sure | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | you have a summary sheet | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | which doens't take into accout report sheets, just regular worksheets | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | also, report sheets assume all the sections use the same columns | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | or activities | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | in cambodia, sections for 9 and 12 grade are different | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | they store fewer columns | 16:57 |
| th1a | Right, iirc we need different report sheets in different sections in Zambia. | 16:58 |
| replaceafill | :O | 16:58 |
| * th1a doesn't know how to interpret that expression. | 16:58 | |
| replaceafill | oh | 16:58 |
| replaceafill | :) | 16:58 |
| replaceafill | in cambodia 1-8 and 11 store montly grades | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | and 9 and 12 grades only semester grades | 16:59 |
| aelkner | the question is how did you address this | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, i havent | 16:59 |
| aelkner | ah, that way :) | 16:59 |
| th1a | That's what we're talking about doing now. | 16:59 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, u? | 17:00 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:00 |
| th1a | So you guys need to talk to each other in planning it. | 17:00 |
| aelkner | i'm not sure what th1a means by needing it for zambia | 17:00 |
| th1a | I don't think every section has the same grades. | 17:00 |
| th1a | But I might be getting something confused. | 17:00 |
| aelkner | could be that they need that, but i don't recall any email specifically | 17:01 |
| aelkner | anyway, we know cambodia needs it, so... | 17:01 |
| th1a | OK, well, anyhow, replaceafill, just let us know what your plan is. | 17:01 |
| aelkner | the question is how do we selectively deploy worksheets to a subset of sections | 17:01 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:02 |
| th1a | And feel free to ask aelkner and me about how to implement it. | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | ok, i will | 17:02 |
| th1a | Well, in terms of user interface it probably is fine to do it by course. | 17:02 |
| replaceafill | by level? | 17:02 |
| th1a | And just have an option of checking off the courses you want. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Each level has its own course for a given subject? | 17:03 |
| aelkner | that sounds like a good idea | 17:03 |
| th1a | As long as it doesn't break the data model. | 17:03 |
| th1a | (Math 1, Math 2, etc?) | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | th1a, this is not going to be cambodia specific, correct? | 17:03 |
| replaceafill | because i was thinking of doing it by level | 17:04 |
| th1a | Ah, well, actually I guess you should do a Cambodia specific UI. | 17:04 |
| th1a | But we should implement it under the hood in a consistent way everywhere. | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | i thought we didnt even need UI for setting it up | 17:04 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | i thought it was going to be default | 17:04 |
| th1a | You can make assumptions in Cambodia. | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | as course creation | 17:04 |
| th1a | Yes, yes. | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:04 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:05 |
| aelkner | hugh? | 17:05 |
| th1a | Si! | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | :)) | 17:05 |
| th1a | We will want a different UI for the general case. | 17:05 |
| th1a | I just don't want two incompatible implementations. | 17:05 |
| aelkner | adding the list of courses to the deploy worksheet view would not be difficult for the user to handle | 17:05 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:06 |
| aelkner | what about report card generation? | 17:06 |
| aelkner | the report card layout view and report card pdf view | 17:06 |
| th1a | For you? | 17:06 |
| aelkner | assume consistently deployed worksheets | 17:06 |
| th1a | Ah, right. | 17:07 |
| aelkner | so that would need to be addressed | 17:07 |
| th1a | Multiple report cards. | 17:07 |
| th1a | Yes... | 17:07 |
| th1a | Hm. | 17:07 |
| replaceafill | i thought of report cards as reports by level? | 17:08 |
| aelkner | report card layouts would need to be kept in a container | 17:08 |
| replaceafill | i havent check the current implementation though | 17:08 |
| th1a | Well, it inevitably complexifies the report cards. | 17:08 |
| aelkner | and the user would need to add them, chose them when printing report cards | 17:08 |
| th1a | We'll have to think about that one. | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | i'll work on that and let you guys know | 17:10 |
| yvl | aelkner, why the container? | 17:11 |
| th1a | We should talk about the report card part of it before you get too deep into (the report card part). | 17:11 |
| yvl | can't we just hack them in? | 17:12 |
| yvl | and do they even need to be persistent? | 17:12 |
| yvl | (I'm not familiar with that part very well, so these are simply questions ;) ) | 17:12 |
| th1a | They need to be persistent. | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | they use some sort of persistent column? | 17:12 |
| aelkner | right now report card layouts are stored by school year | 17:12 |
| aelkner | what we are talking about is hacing more than one layout in a given year | 17:13 |
| th1a | Often you layout the report card for the year and print it out at the end of each quarter. | 17:13 |
| aelkner | in other words, ore than one type of report card | 17:13 |
| th1a | Actually, it is probably a more complex single report card, for our generic implementation. | 17:13 |
| aelkner | ah, thinking about it, maybe we don't need to add a container | 17:14 |
| th1a | Because we don't want to make too many assumptions about mixing different types of grading. | 17:14 |
| aelkner | we could just add something to the key | 17:14 |
| th1a | I need to look at how it is implemented now again and think a little more. | 17:14 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:17 |
| th1a | Thanks replaceafill! | 17:17 |
| yvl | hmm, I took a short look at the code | 17:17 |
| yvl | aelkner, your idea with a different key looks good | 17:17 |
| aelkner | yeah, we could just add a -something to the schoolyear to distinguish one from another | 17:18 |
| aelkner | the -seomthing would have to serve as a title for the user though | 17:18 |
| aelkner | for the user to chose one from another when laying out/printing report cards | 17:19 |
| aelkner | it's a complicated task, but doable | 17:19 |
| th1a | Don't think we'll do it that way. | 17:20 |
| th1a | But we don't have to figure it out now. | 17:20 |
| th1a | OK, aelkner update? | 17:22 |
| aelkner | so i added isMaxPassingScore to discrete score sustems | 17:23 |
| aelkner | to indicate that the minPassing score is really a maximum | 17:23 |
| aelkner | and i got the add score system view to allow the user to set that | 17:23 |
| aelkner | actually, require is the better term | 17:24 |
| th1a | That's a boolean? | 17:24 |
| aelkner | yes | 17:24 |
| aelkner | no evolution necessary as the class attribute will be False | 17:24 |
| aelkner | i changed the isPassingScore method | 17:25 |
| aelkner | to take the flag into consideration | 17:25 |
| aelkner | here's the thing though | 17:25 |
| aelkner | until now, we haven't used that method, instead asking the user what is a passing score | 17:26 |
| aelkner | in the request failures report view | 17:26 |
| th1a | Oh, snap. | 17:26 |
| th1a | That's how that worked. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | we probably did it that way so that we wouldn't require the ser to make that decision | 17:27 |
| aelkner | when setting up the score system | 17:27 |
| aelkner | but that is probably more features than the user really needs | 17:27 |
| th1a | Actually, you might want the report to show something different than the official failing level. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | oh | 17:28 |
| th1a | If "F" is failing you still might want to know who got "D's." | 17:28 |
| aelkner | so an override, so to speak | 17:28 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | i like the sond of that | 17:28 |
| th1a | Hm. | 17:28 |
| aelkner | because i was going to raise the issue of what to do about existing custom score systems in the field | 17:29 |
| th1a | Hm? | 17:29 |
| aelkner | that currently have None for minPassingScore | 17:29 |
| aelkner | removing the mimum passing score from the failure report request would have led to problams | 17:30 |
| aelkner | for those custom score systems that have already been created out there | 17:31 |
| aelkner | but by keeping the min passing score in the report request | 17:32 |
| th1a | Oh, right. | 17:32 |
| aelkner | we can handle those types of users | 17:32 |
| aelkner | whereas going forward | 17:32 |
| aelkner | we can not require the user to enter anything there | 17:32 |
| aelkner | and have the report use the isPassingScore methoid | 17:33 |
| aelkner | which would in turn take into account the isMaxPassingScore flag set up by the user | 17:33 |
| aelkner | when adding the score system in the first place | 17:34 |
| th1a | Yes. Just change the label to say "minimum/maximum" passing score, | 17:34 |
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| aelkner | a dropdown the the user selects like in the add view, right? | 17:34 |
| aelkner | i sent you some screen shots | 17:35 |
| th1a | No... just a text reminder that they might be setting either based on the context. | 17:35 |
| th1a | Making the value a drop-down might be nice. | 17:35 |
| th1a | Even for ranged score systems. | 17:35 |
| aelkner | in any event, we don't have to worry about existing score systems in the field | 17:36 |
| aelkner | as long as the report request retains that option for the user | 17:36 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:37 |
| aelkner | ok, so another issue came up | 17:37 |
| aelkner | i found a little bug while changing the add score system view | 17:37 |
| aelkner | there is another attribute which the add score system view need to set | 17:38 |
| aelkner | called, bestScore | 17:38 |
| aelkner | it is only used in the gradebook for for the column heading | 17:39 |
| th1a | We can infer that this is the first value entered? | 17:40 |
| aelkner | well, until now inferring that made sense | 17:40 |
| aelkner | but with the min/max, that may change | 17:40 |
| aelkner | but the bug is that i set it to the first abreviation | 17:41 |
| aelkner | instead of the first displayed score | 17:41 |
| th1a | It is a string? | 17:41 |
| aelkner | yes | 17:41 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:41 |
| aelkner | it's not used in calculating anything, so it's not tragic | 17:41 |
| aelkner | i just wanted to mention it | 17:41 |
| th1a | Yeah, if someone is annoyed by it someday we can let them explicitly set it. | 17:42 |
| th1a | Or something. | 17:42 |
| aelkner | yeah, i figured that we were safe on this, that it ay never be an issue | 17:42 |
| aelkner | and i changed the view to use the first displayed score now | 17:43 |
| aelkner | i suppose the concept of best score doesn't change when the user chooses max over min | 17:43 |
| aelkner | for the passing score option? | 17:44 |
| th1a | I don't think so. | 17:44 |
| aelkner | the highest score is still the best score | 17:44 |
| aelkner | at least for the gradebook column that should be ok, right? | 17:44 |
| th1a | We're really just implying a label. | 17:44 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:44 |
| th1a | This mainly just makes sense for ranged scores. | 17:45 |
| th1a | So that if you have a 10 point quiz it says "10" at the top. | 17:45 |
| aelkner | true | 17:45 |
| th1a | That's why it is there. | 17:45 |
| th1a | Not to remind you that in your country you use A-F. | 17:46 |
| th1a | OK, anything else? | 17:46 |
| aelkner | can we hash over details of the screenshots i sent you via phone after the meeting is over? | 17:46 |
| th1a | They look fine to me, except for what we discussed above. | 17:48 |
| th1a | Do you understand the difference in the timetable report Jen sent? | 17:48 |
| th1a | The new one? | 17:48 |
| aelkner | looking at the email thread i don't see an attachment | 17:49 |
| th1a | Oh, she just sent it to me. | 17:49 |
| th1a | Forwarded... | 17:50 |
| aelkner | thanks | 17:50 |
| th1a | Anyhow, I'll keep this going with aelkner, but... | 17:50 |
| th1a | Have a great week gentlemen! | 17:50 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:50 | |
| replaceafill | thanks everybody | 17:50 |
| aelkner | great week everybody | 17:51 |
| yvl | a great week for you all! :) | 17:52 |
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| aelkner | th1a, what do you make of the two new columns? | 17:53 |
| th1a | The first two? | 17:54 |
| aelkner | yeah | 17:54 |
| th1a | I'm not really familiar with the particulars of their schedule. | 17:55 |
| aelkner | th1a, hello? | 18:00 |
| th1a | Yes? | 18:00 |
| th1a | What do you make of them? | 18:01 |
| aelkner | i don't know, i was asking you | 18:01 |
| th1a | ... | 18:02 |
| aelkner | all i know is there is only one course percell | 18:02 |
| th1a | Well, are they classes? | 18:02 |
| aelkner | things like 8A, 8B, those are section titles | 18:02 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:02 |
| th1a | What about C5, C6... | 18:03 |
| aelkner | that happen to correspond in real life to a group of students, kind of like a level but not exactly | 18:03 |
| aelkner | i dunno | 18:03 |
| aelkner | never seen it in their FET data | 18:03 |
| th1a | Is this the same data as in the report you made? | 18:04 |
| aelkner | well, if i had to guess | 18:04 |
| aelkner | i would thin that what she has given us here solves a mystery that i had about why one teacher | 18:05 |
| aelkner | would be teaching more than one section at once | 18:05 |
| aelkner | it looks lke the teacher is teaching the same course to ore than one group of students | 18:05 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:06 |
| aelkner | so, in a way showing the course title rather than the section title makes more sense | 18:06 |
| aelkner | and i guess a teacher teaching four different groups of students at once could be rendered as four rows | 18:07 |
| th1a | My SchoolTool phone just got a promotional text message about a concert tonight. | 18:07 |
| aelkner | a SchoolTool concert? | 18:07 |
| aelkner | :) | 18:07 |
| th1a | A Hot 106 concert. | 18:07 |
| aelkner | i'm not twelve, so i have no idea who they are | 18:08 |
| aelkner | or did i mess something growing up | 18:08 |
| th1a | It is a radio station... | 18:08 |
| aelkner | miss | 18:08 |
| aelkner | th1a, are you receiving my private chat messages? | 18:10 |
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| th1a | Sorry... pulled away for a minute. | 18:16 |
| aelkner | so, are you? | 18:16 |
| th1a | Yes, but I have my sidebar closed so I don't see them. | 18:17 |
| aelkner | ah | 18:17 |
| th1a | So this is telling us which subject each teacher is teaching each period? | 18:18 |
| aelkner | but it doesn't properly represent the case of teaching more than one group of students at a time | 18:20 |
| aelkner | i see only one line per teacher | 18:20 |
| aelkner | with only one group of students mentioned in column one | 18:20 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:21 |
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