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| ignas | yvl, why did you mark the bug that could have taken years to fix as fixed? ;( | 12:56 |
|---|---|---|
| yvl | wait, which one? | 12:59 |
| yvl | by mistake, maybe | 13:00 |
| yvl | you probably got a link in your mailbox?.. | 13:01 |
| yvl | gimme? :) | 13:01 |
| ignas | the one about skins | 13:01 |
| ignas | https://launchpad.net/bugs/80191 | 13:01 |
| yvl | It seemed fixed | 13:02 |
| ignas | there was supposed to be a UI that would allow you to select the skins that are in the system | 13:03 |
| ignas | and order them in arbitrary orders by priority | 13:03 |
| yvl | ah, yes, I should comment on that | 13:03 |
| yvl | bug title: Some method of skin selection required (difficult to customize) | 13:03 |
| yvl | bug cause: This issue comes up because cando creates it's own schooltool skin. | 13:04 |
| yvl | cause is fixed | 13:04 |
| ignas | so you could have Lyceum > Cambodgia > Cando skin | 13:04 |
| ignas | generated on the fly | 13:04 |
| yvl | and I do not agree with the title's "difficult to customize" | 13:04 |
| ignas | that would be like awesome :D | 13:04 |
| yvl | well | 13:04 |
| ignas | i must touch eeky fileys | 13:04 |
| yvl | yes, it would | 13:04 |
| ignas | :) | 13:04 |
| yvl | but it's a maintainance burden | 13:05 |
| yvl | and a thing that... well, nobody needs | 13:05 |
| yvl | right now | 13:05 |
| yvl | especially - selectable from UI | 13:05 |
| yvl | I mean - it's a very very fun toy | 13:05 |
| ignas | Day View does not show all events if timezone is not UTC -> not 100% sure it is fixed | 13:06 |
| ignas | seriously | 13:06 |
| * yvl too | 13:06 | |
| yvl | but I don't see a point of having a bug | 13:06 |
| ignas | yeah, I guess users can re-report it | 13:06 |
| ignas | if they will see it | 13:06 |
| yvl | where nobody knows if it exists | 13:07 |
| ignas | but it's more of a incomplete rather than fixed | 13:07 |
| yvl | well, somebody submitted a bug | 13:08 |
| yvl | somebody submitted a patch fixing the bug | 13:08 |
| ignas | ahh, it's that one?> | 13:08 |
| ignas | in that case - there as a test case at least verbal | 13:08 |
| yvl | developers fixed the bug on their own | 13:08 |
| yvl | few months before the patch | 13:08 |
| yvl | and added unit tests | 13:08 |
| yvl | I think this is as good as it gets for old bugs like this :| | 13:09 |
| ignas | ok, I am probably thinking about another bug related to this | 13:09 |
| yvl | (and developers wrote code very very similar to what the patch does, and wrote it on their own) | 13:09 |
| yvl | all of this caused my Bayesian filter to mark it as fixed :) | 13:10 |
| yvl | ah, and comment on Skins | 13:13 |
| yvl | I'm leaning more and more towards two types of ST modification | 13:14 |
| yvl | 1) eggs that define instances | 13:14 |
| yvl | 2) eggs that extend functionality of some instance | 13:14 |
| ignas | my issue with this plan is | 13:14 |
| yvl | instances should have their own skins, plugins (2) should not | 13:15 |
| ignas | that sometimes it is beneficial to have a plugin | 13:15 |
| ignas | define all the views in a skin | 13:15 |
| ignas | like lyceum journal did | 13:15 |
| yvl | listening... | 13:15 |
| ignas | so that if 2 plugins redefine the same view | 13:15 |
| ignas | they would not conflict | 13:15 |
| yvl | ah | 13:15 |
| yvl | my point is | 13:15 |
| yvl | that they should conflict | 13:15 |
| ignas | the question would be - which of these skins takes priorities | 13:15 |
| ignas | I am looking at the make schooltool better plugins | 13:16 |
| yvl | and | 13:16 |
| yvl | plugins should not redefine anything | 13:16 |
| ignas | like "change some form" | 13:16 |
| yvl | extend - yes, replace - no | 13:16 |
| yvl | want to replace - define an instance | 13:16 |
| yvl | easier to manage | 13:16 |
| ignas | that hurts | 13:16 |
| yvl | in my opinion | 13:16 |
| ignas | I just want a simpler person form ;) | 13:17 |
| ignas | or swap two columns, or display person name differently in a report | 13:17 |
| yvl | 1) that's a feature - plugable person forms in ST | 13:17 |
| yvl | 2) there should be plugins that define schemas or whatever | 13:18 |
| yvl | or | 13:18 |
| yvl | you can do your own small instance, and redefine in whatever way you want | 13:18 |
| ignas | "small instance" :) | 13:18 |
| yvl | yes | 13:18 |
| yvl | there's even unfinished documentation on that | 13:18 |
| yvl | not available to public ;) | 13:18 |
| yvl | if your case is very custom and you want to write code that changes the behaviour | 13:19 |
| yvl | you should define your own instance | 13:19 |
| ignas | the biggest downside of this is that you make all plugins go through you | 13:19 |
| ignas | as in - if someone makes a small improvement in his instance | 13:19 |
| yvl | if your case is pretty common, ST should be modified to be flexible enough | 13:19 |
| ignas | sharing it with someone else | 13:19 |
| ignas | is more difficult | 13:19 |
| ignas | on the other hand you have more centralised control | 13:20 |
| yvl | and there should be a way to develop small plugins that modify it the way you want | 13:20 |
| ignas | i mean - "my person form plugin" "my student gb ui fix plugin" and so on can be shared | 13:20 |
| ignas | if all of them are in my skin | 13:20 |
| ignas | and they are because that's how I started working on them | 13:20 |
| ignas | either someone refactors them into plugins, or someone copy pastes the code into his instance | 13:21 |
| ignas | (copy paste wins) | 13:21 |
| ignas | though I aggree that resolving the plugin skin priorities is not an easy thing either, and leads to a mess, just a different mess ;)_ | 13:22 |
| yvl | well, in reality we'll have to wait and see what happens | 13:23 |
| yvl | my bet is that having more centralised control would be more beneficial to ST | 13:23 |
| * ignas seen copy paste already, germans did it :) | 13:23 | |
| ignas | copy lyceum person + modify to rename modules + modify to suit them better | 13:23 |
| ignas | was a total mess | 13:24 |
| yvl | I only imagine | 13:25 |
| ignas | but gave me an insight into the mind of a sysadmin/student who can code and wants to get something worky | 13:29 |
| ignas | if you are evil - modify code in place | 13:29 |
| ignas | if you are less evil - copy code you want to modify and use some tools to plug it on top of the original code | 13:29 |
| ignas | kind of a different school of thought tan mine is | 13:30 |
| yvl | good exp, isn't it? :) | 13:32 |
| yvl | well, one of the workflows I'm considering is: | 13:32 |
| yvl | check out a branch of plugin that does what you want | 13:32 |
| yvl | modify in place | 13:32 |
| yvl | push back to LP | 13:32 |
| yvl | build an egg with Makefile | 13:32 |
| yvl | install an egg to your system / local python | 13:33 |
| yvl | but it has it's own risks | 13:33 |
| ignas | in fact - get source deb, modify in place, build it and install it seems safer ;) | 13:34 |
| ignas | but hey - I am a setuptools hater ;) | 13:34 |
| ignas | unless you can load custom eggs from some dir | 13:34 |
| ignas | and use them to override system packages | 13:34 |
| ignas | /etc/st/overrides/schooltool.lyceum.journal-666.egg | 13:35 |
| yvl | since python 2.6 you can has stuff with local site packages AFAIR | 13:35 |
| yvl | we can exploit that | 13:36 |
| yvl | also - you can evil_install eggs to your system python | 13:36 |
| ignas | and then if something breaks | 13:36 |
| ignas | you can always | 13:36 |
| ignas | emm... | 13:36 |
| yvl | your'e a sysdamin are you not? :) | 13:37 |
| yvl | and modifying stuff in place is less evil? | 13:38 |
| ignas | if you use evil_install you are a .... not a sys admin :D | 13:38 |
| ignas | yeah, in fact it leads to less problems than evil_install | 13:38 |
| ignas | you can apt-get remove | 13:38 |
| ignas | apt-get install | 13:38 |
| ignas | and ta-da | 13:38 |
| ignas | everything is pristine | 13:38 |
| ignas | you even know what to back up | 13:39 |
| ignas | the files you changed | 13:39 |
| ignas | so it's kind of more evil, but less problematic :D | 13:39 |
| yvl | well | 13:39 |
| ignas | especially if you want to change the way term views work for an example of a UI thing | 13:39 |
| ignas | that requires checking out 70 mb of bzr | 13:39 |
| yvl | I actually don't see a problem with people building their own debs, but NOT bothering me about it ;) | 13:39 |
| yvl | (or menesis in this case) | 13:39 |
| ignas | that's the scary thing - they don't bother you about it | 13:40 |
| ignas | until they have made something that you can't fix :D | 13:40 |
| ignas | but yeah, we wish we had these problems ;) | 13:42 |
| yvl | :DDD | 13:42 |
| yvl | ok, gotta grab something to eat | 13:42 |
| yvl | a pleasure chatting with you, as always ;) | 13:42 |
| ignas | ahh | 13:43 |
| ignas | wanna see the german plugin | 13:43 |
| ignas | i think istill got the code | 13:43 |
| yvl | yes, please! | 13:43 |
| * yvl brb | 13:44 | |
| yvl | "sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad" | 14:49 |
| yvl | (Error ID: OOPS-1581EA1447) | 14:49 |
| yvl | +1 for OOPS as the prefix | 14:49 |
| yvl | ooookay | 14:55 |
| yvl | 200 untagged bugs | 14:55 |
| * yvl rolls up his sleeves | 14:56 | |
| yvl | guys, it seems I've gone on tagging rampage | 15:06 |
| yvl | apologies in advance for mistagged stuff | 15:06 |
| ignas | First you catches the bug, then you attaches a tag to it, and let it back into the wild, so you could observe it's intricate behavior at a distance... | 15:09 |
| menesis | tagged-badly tag? | 15:10 |
| yvl | yes | 15:12 |
| yvl | -* is currently broken in LP | 15:12 |
| yvl | as in - show untagged | 15:12 |
| yvl | ignas - more like tagging cattle :) | 15:13 |
| yvl | pssssst | 15:13 |
| ignas | branding | 15:14 |
| yvl | yes | 15:14 |
| yvl | that one | 15:14 |
| ignas | branding is the "assign" thingie | 15:14 |
| ignas | you are saying "this bug is mine" | 15:14 |
| yvl | I know my analogy is wrong | 15:15 |
| yvl | but it is fun | 15:15 |
| yvl | (because of psssst sound when branding; also I kind of player Overlord a bit too much this weekend) | 15:16 |
| yvl | *played | 15:16 |
| yvl | menesis, if you find something tagged-badly and have an idea how to tag it, please do | 15:21 |
| menesis | yvl, do not understand what's the point of such tag | 15:22 |
| yvl | I cannot find untagged bugs currently | 15:23 |
| yvl | because searching for those gives traceback in LP | 15:23 |
| ignas | emm | 15:23 |
| ignas | oh | 15:23 |
| ignas | not a timeout | 15:23 |
| yvl | and I want to mark some bugs that I want to re-tag later | 15:23 |
| ignas | but a traceback | 15:23 |
| yvl | wait | 15:23 |
| yvl | a timeout | 15:23 |
| ignas | yeah | 15:23 |
| ignas | they are timeout nazi | 15:23 |
| yvl | true | 15:24 |
| ignas | some queries that return a lot of content | 15:24 |
| ignas | have to be sent 3-4 times | 15:24 |
| ignas | before launchpad gives you the result | 15:24 |
| yvl | btw, how is the "problems that arise when SchoolTool users use Apache mod-rewrite to embed the application inside another site" tag called? | 15:24 |
| ignas | deployment | 15:24 |
| ignas | + apache | 15:24 |
| ignas | ur just f-ups | 15:25 |
| yvl | :D | 15:25 |
| menesis | if you don't know how to tag a bug, just leave it | 15:27 |
| menesis | you can never tag all bugs, because new ones come in | 15:28 |
| ignas | now that's a new low :) when I was young - I thought I can fix all the bugs, but now - i don't even think you can tag all of them :) | 15:30 |
| yvl | well put | 15:32 |
| menesis | I don't think there's much value in tags anyway | 15:34 |
| menesis | if you are looking at bugs.. | 15:34 |
| menesis | the only thing I'm interested at the moment is will the bugs marked for 1.4.0 be fixed | 15:34 |
| menesis | https://edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/+milestone/1.4.0 | 15:35 |
| ignas | to you - probably not, but to th1a they seem to be useful, as it makes it easier to assign tasks to relevant developers without asking developers whether they know anything about that bug | 15:35 |
| menesis | tagged-badly is not useful | 15:36 |
| ignas | yes, that is just a workaround from what I understood, or a tag that is useful to people who are tagging bugs as a WIP tag | 15:37 |
| menesis | fixing bugs that high priority for release *yesterday* is more important than tagging already assigned bugs | 15:39 |
| ignas | your point is correct, yvl should probably be doing programming work, not bug triaging work which is better left to people who can not do programming work ;) | 15:40 |
| ignas | but IMHO it is a useful activity in general | 15:40 |
| yvl | well, the code for the release is frozen | 15:41 |
| yvl | so no rush any more there | 15:41 |
| yvl | on the other hand, I'd like to plan out some refactorings | 15:41 |
| yvl | take out a big axe and start chopping bugs several at a time | 15:42 |
| yvl | and current bug situation is out-of-control in my opinion | 15:43 |
| menesis | yes, that's important for work after the UDS | 15:43 |
| menesis | but I'm waiting for bugfixes to do the final release | 15:44 |
| yvl | there won't be any more bugfixes, as far as I'm aware | 15:45 |
| menesis | :( | 15:46 |
| yvl | I'd say: :) ! | 15:46 |
| yvl | it's probably one of the few times in ST history when people stopped cramming stuff *before* release not *at* or *after* | 15:47 |
| yvl | as for the tagging - UDS is one of the reasons why I'm doing it | 15:47 |
| yvl | helps to getting overview of the current situation | 15:48 |
| menesis | people stopped fixing high priority bugs assigned to them three weeks before the release | 15:49 |
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| yvl | yes | 15:51 |
| yvl | two weeks would have been sufficient | 15:51 |
| menesis | but ok some of the bugs are features that did not make it | 15:52 |
| menesis | and there are many more bugs in the "lucid" milestone | 15:52 |
| menesis | :( | 15:55 |
| * menesis away | 15:55 | |
| yvl | I agree | 15:55 |
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| Lumiere | btw they also tag cattle | 16:22 |
| Lumiere | branding is ownership | 16:24 |
| Lumiere | tagging is to give them their ID number ;) | 16:24 |
| yvl | ah, right | 16:24 |
| yvl | ear-tagging :) | 16:25 |
| Lumiere | yep | 16:25 |
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| * th1a crawls out of bed. | 18:39 | |
| th1a | I'm afraid my cold has mutated into bronchitis or pneumonia. | 18:39 |
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