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| replaceafill | yvl, ping | 15:40 |
|---|---|---|
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| yvl | pong, replaceafill | 15:46 |
| replaceafill | hey yvl, is there anyway to run a buildout if ftp.schooltool.org is down? | 15:47 |
| yvl | hmm, well, hmm | 15:49 |
| mgedmin | if you've got everything cached, then yes | 15:52 |
| mgedmin | try bin/buildout -o | 15:52 |
| mgedmin | -o means "offline" | 15:52 |
| * replaceafill tries -o | 15:53 | |
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| th1a | hi... | 16:35 |
| yvl | hi th1a | 16:35 |
| th1a | hi aelkner, yvl, replaceafill. | 16:35 |
| th1a | Hi eMBee. | 16:35 |
| replaceafill | good morning/afternoon | 16:35 |
| yvl | menesis is here, his laptop broke a bit | 16:35 |
| th1a | hi menesis. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:36 |
| th1a | It is Julia's first birthday, and I've got both sets of grandparents here, so things are in a bit of chaos. | 16:36 |
| th1a | So I'd be happy to keep this short today. | 16:37 |
| th1a | The plan at this point is to release the list of grant winners tomorrow (probably late). | 16:38 |
| th1a | The basic plan going forward will be replaceafill working on Cambodia and El Salvador, | 16:38 |
| eMBee | good evening | 16:38 |
| th1a | aelkner working with three schools in Africa, | 16:38 |
| th1a | and yvl helping with both or neither as needed. | 16:39 |
| yvl | I like the plan :) | 16:39 |
| th1a | But overall the timelines seem to work out -- aelkner's schools will be deploying in August. | 16:39 |
| aelkner | yvl: the both part or the neither part? | 16:39 |
| aelkner | :) | 16:40 |
| th1a | Well, we've got some neither AND both parts that need to be done too. | 16:40 |
| th1a | hi eMBee. | 16:40 |
| th1a | Where are you in the world, eMBee? | 16:40 |
| th1a | aelkner, Why don't you just run through what you're going to be working on this week. A few sentences. | 16:41 |
| aelkner | well, i started last week with the cambodia package | 16:42 |
| aelkner | and got rid of the things that i wouldn't need and renamed everything to philippines | 16:43 |
| aelkner | so i have a schooltool.philippines package now | 16:43 |
| th1a | (aelkner is working on the gov't reports for the Philippines) | 16:44 |
| * eMBee is in singapore | 16:44 | |
| aelkner | i can't get it to build because the pypi ste is down | 16:44 |
| th1a | (for which we have spreadsheet versions now) | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, i think is schooltool.org not pypi | 16:44 |
| aelkner | can we get that back p? | 16:44 |
| aelkner | up | 16:44 |
| th1a | eMBee: What kind of school are you working with? Primary? Secondary? Later? | 16:45 |
| th1a | Sorry I completely forgot about that after sending an email on Friday. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Why do things always break on Fridays? | 16:46 |
| th1a | aelkner: Please continue... | 16:48 |
| aelkner | ok | 16:48 |
| aelkner | so i also starting looking at scholtool.export for its example of handling xls files | 16:49 |
| aelkner | i will continue to do that and to start writing my own code that fills in that xls template they gave us | 16:49 |
| aelkner | though i don't know what the report sheets will look like | 16:50 |
| th1a | You should be able to get started just by looking at the reports. | 16:51 |
| aelkner | that's what i'll do | 16:51 |
| aelkner | so that's all i got for now | 16:51 |
| th1a | If they say "Physics |1|2|3|4|F|" | 16:51 |
| th1a | Then you could start with |1|2|3|4|F| on the report sheets. | 16:51 |
| aelkner | as titles? | 16:52 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 16:52 |
| aelkner | score system 0-100? | 16:52 |
| th1a | Basically, we're at the point where this will go through a few iterations. | 16:52 |
| th1a | That is fine for starters. | 16:52 |
| th1a | It is better to knock something together and get them to tell us what is wrong with it than to try to get them to come up with all the facts up front. | 16:52 |
| th1a | That takes forever and never works. | 16:53 |
| aelkner | ok | 16:53 |
| th1a | So yeah, just take that approach. | 16:53 |
| aelkner | how will we get it to them? | 16:53 |
| th1a | Maybe start with a screencast and then a demo server. | 16:54 |
| aelkner | ah, ok | 16:54 |
| th1a | thanks, aelkner. | 16:55 |
| aelkner | i'll let you know when there's something for you to load | 16:55 |
| th1a | Cool. | 16:55 |
| th1a | replaceafill: It may take a few days (or more) for the conversation to start back up with Cambodia. | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | oh yes, i was getting worried about Javier not responding... | 16:56 |
| th1a | They're a) busy and b) Javier can't really answer a lot of questions himself. | 16:56 |
| th1a | Things go fine once we get the conversations rolling, but there is a little boot-up time. | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | ah ok, well the demo server is ready though | 16:57 |
| th1a | I'm thinking about things we had left over when we stopped that initial burst of work. | 16:58 |
| th1a | Different demographics for different groups? | 16:58 |
| replaceafill | ah yes | 16:59 |
| * yvl goes to look at the board... | 16:59 | |
| th1a | https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/+bug/540429 | 16:59 |
| th1a | https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/+bug/541673 | 16:59 |
| th1a | It would be good to get "progressing to next year" done. | 17:00 |
| yvl | yes | 17:00 |
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| yvl | I have several notes about other loose ends... | 17:00 |
| th1a | The main thing to start with there is that it is something you do ONCE A YEAR. | 17:00 |
| yvl | replacing schoolyear view with a simpler term view/edit | 17:00 |
| th1a | yvl: Yes, that too. | 17:01 |
| Lumiere | th1a: has it right... a generic *once a year* system would be good | 17:01 |
| yvl | changing default section view | 17:01 |
| * Lumiere waves | 17:01 | |
| th1a | The year change-over shouldn't be like "press all these buttons in different contexts." | 17:01 |
| th1a | It should be like a wizard you access from the manage screen that takes you through the steps. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Migrate groups? | 17:02 |
| th1a | Advance levels? | 17:02 |
| th1a | Etc. | 17:02 |
| th1a | But slow, explicit, and non-magical is what we want. | 17:02 |
| ignas | wizards are hard, let's go shopping | 17:03 |
| th1a | Follow me? | 17:03 |
| th1a | Well, not *really* a wizard. | 17:03 |
| Lumiere | how about just a single view that kicks off the processes and steps through | 17:04 |
| * Lumiere hates the click here do do x then click next... thing | 17:04 | |
| yvl | They simply need a list of classes (11a, 11b, etc.) in say year 2009 | 17:04 |
| ignas | Do foo bar: [Do] and a table with 10 rows of that? | 17:04 |
| yvl | and then go to these classes one-by-one | 17:04 |
| ignas | and the [Do] becomes a checkbox | 17:04 |
| yvl | and transfer each student to a new year or leave him in the same year | 17:05 |
| ignas | though yvl should have experience of year to year switchovers from ivija work | 17:05 |
| yvl | sorry, grade | 17:05 |
| yvl | transfer to new grade or leave at the same | 17:05 |
| th1a | There are just a few moving parts. | 17:05 |
| th1a | Move students? | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | yvl: make that a "transfer all or select students not to transfer" | 17:05 |
| th1a | Promote students? | 17:05 |
| yvl | nah | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | promote is better then move | 17:06 |
| yvl | once-a-year | 17:06 |
| yvl | they can click each student separately for now | 17:06 |
| th1a | Lumiere, it is two different things, potentially. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Yeah... it is ok if this takes someone a while to do. | 17:06 |
| yvl | slow-and-extremely-obvious is much, much better than a-bit-easier-but-makes-me think | 17:07 |
| yvl | at least in our scenario | 17:07 |
| th1a | And also the kind of thing where confirmation screens are good. | 17:07 |
| * yvl agrees | 17:07 | |
| yvl | and extreme simplicity in school year transfer was kind of a requirement in Cambodia case | 17:08 |
| ignas | question - is this promoting thing performed "in schooltool" | 17:08 |
| ignas | or just "entered into schooltool" ? | 17:08 |
| ignas | interfaces for "i have this list of persons, I already know the status of" and I just want to express it in schooltool | 17:09 |
| ignas | are a bit different from ones, where schooltool is the definitive source | 17:09 |
| th1a | By default, in most places, most students are promoted at the end of the year. | 17:09 |
| ignas | and you are using schooltool to help you decide on what to do with a student | 17:09 |
| th1a | SchoolTool would be the definitive source for this. | 17:09 |
| th1a | ignas: Ah, well, yes, that's the idea. | 17:09 |
| ignas | in one case - search and categories are important, in the other - quick access to relevant student data from the transfer view is | 17:10 |
| th1a | The initial implemenation will be less helpful than you'd want. ;-) | 17:10 |
| ignas | just a thought... | 17:10 |
| th1a | That's closely related to another necessary addition -- a more explicit tracking of the final grade for a student in a section. | 17:11 |
| th1a | Right now it is just a cell in a report sheet that can be pulled for a report, but it doesn't have the semantic meaning it should. | 17:11 |
| th1a | So that's almost certainly coming soon to build some of the reports we'll need. | 17:12 |
| th1a | That is, we need to be able to explicitly query "Did Justas pass CS 101?" | 17:12 |
| th1a | Without having to know which column in which report sheet to query. | 17:13 |
| yvl | Cambodia case or generic ST? | 17:13 |
| th1a | Generic. | 17:13 |
| th1a | Which reminds me, another thing we need to do in the post-Lucid trunk is decide how many other parts of Cambodia to pull into core. | 17:14 |
| th1a | e.g., make "Add student" the default in core. | 17:14 |
| yvl | yeah, some of the things could definitely be reimplemented in trunk | 17:15 |
| th1a | I'll have to make a list. | 17:15 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Perhaps you could come up with a proposal for progressing to next year. | 17:16 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 17:16 |
| replaceafill | El Salvador needs that too | 17:16 |
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| th1a | Everyone needs it. ;-) | 17:17 |
| replaceafill | ture :D | 17:17 |
| replaceafill | true | 17:17 |
| replaceafill | although El Salvador has grade constraints to advance to the next level | 17:17 |
| th1a | Also, don't get hung up on the wording in the bug. That's just how Javier described it. The actual implementation doesn't have anything to do with his perception. | 17:17 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 17:18 |
| th1a | The grade constraints can come later. | 17:18 |
| replaceafill | ok | 17:18 |
| th1a | OK, so write up a brief proposal for that. | 17:19 |
| * yvl senses a discussion coming up... | 17:19 | |
| th1a | ? | 17:19 |
| th1a | Immediately or after replaceafill makes his proposal? | 17:20 |
| yvl | some time later, when stuff needs to get into generic ST | 17:20 |
| th1a | Oh... I'd do this part as generic ST. | 17:21 |
| yvl | since I'm having trouble imagining that part done in a generic way | 17:22 |
| yvl | I'll wait for proposal | 17:22 |
| th1a | It seems pretty generic to me. | 17:22 |
| th1a | Especially if you don't try to do a lot of guessing. | 17:22 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:23 |
| th1a | yvl? | 17:23 |
| th1a | thanks replaceafill. | 17:23 |
| yvl | well, I didn't finish up remaking catalogs yet | 17:24 |
| yvl | but I'm close | 17:24 |
| yvl | (doing them second time basically took a little bit more time than before) | 17:24 |
| yvl | then there are several things for this week | 17:24 |
| yvl | lucid release | 17:24 |
| yvl | I'll review and merge the branches submitted by Douglas and Alan | 17:25 |
| yvl | (though some things, say, removal of fieldsets in intervention raises questions) | 17:25 |
| aelkner | how' that? | 17:26 |
| yvl | why??? | 17:26 |
| th1a | Eh? | 17:26 |
| replaceafill | th1a, http://imagebin.ca/view/65tfNA.html | 17:26 |
| replaceafill | th1a, old and new | 17:26 |
| aelkner | i removed the fieldsets becuase they were hiding a problem chrome was having with self-closing divs | 17:27 |
| th1a | replaceafill, That's right. | 17:27 |
| yvl | are you sure chrome was having a problem? | 17:27 |
| ignas | self closing divs? | 17:27 |
| yvl | that browser is implemented quite well | 17:27 |
| th1a | There was a problem. | 17:27 |
| ignas | <div /> is not a valid tag in case you called it a self closing div | 17:27 |
| yvl | it's known that chromium renders *malformed* html differently that other browsers | 17:28 |
| th1a | So... does the view *look* different now? | 17:28 |
| yvl | dunno | 17:28 |
| yvl | hence - raises questions | 17:28 |
| yvl | anyway | 17:29 |
| aelkner | no, it looks the same | 17:29 |
| th1a | The div is now providing the same style? | 17:29 |
| aelkner | it appears the same to the user | 17:30 |
| aelkner | fieldsets don't need style | 17:30 |
| aelkner | they already draw the box | 17:30 |
| th1a | OK, fine. We cleaned up the <div /> and now it works. | 17:30 |
| ignas | fieldsets also can have a <legend> | 17:30 |
| yvl | yes | 17:30 |
| th1a | OK, moving on. | 17:30 |
| ignas | which divs do not | 17:31 |
| yvl | menesis had some comment on the merge | 17:31 |
| yvl | the comment seemed right | 17:31 |
| yvl | the diff looked weird | 17:31 |
| yvl | moving on | 17:31 |
| yvl | if anybody is up for additional testing | 17:32 |
| yvl | please upgrade to Lucid | 17:32 |
| th1a | Yes, I need to bang on it and update some documentation. | 17:32 |
| yvl | you'll need to enable ST PPAs after upgrade | 17:32 |
| yvl | currently the release should work | 17:33 |
| yvl | we may be doing the RC1 on Fri (I know th1a loves Fri releases) | 17:33 |
| th1a | Well... can we not push it to Karmic on Friday? | 17:34 |
| yvl | yes | 17:34 |
| th1a | Please. | 17:34 |
| yvl | either push to Lucid only, or not push anywhere | 17:34 |
| yvl | I currently have a broken upgraded ST @ home, but menesis mentioned he worked around the issue recently | 17:34 |
| th1a | And give me some warning. ;-) | 17:34 |
| yvl | this time... yes :) | 17:35 |
| yvl | will do | 17:35 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:35 |
| yvl | well, and there's the thing with calendar events | 17:35 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:35 |
| th1a | I'm afraid we're just going to have to fix that. | 17:36 |
| yvl | but not in Lucid, right ;) | 17:36 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:36 |
| yvl | at least - not now :) | 17:36 |
| yvl | well, that's it from me | 17:36 |
| th1a | That's not something we'll backport. | 17:36 |
| th1a | We're going to need to do separate development releases this cycle. | 17:37 |
| th1a | That standard Lucid users won't pick up. | 17:37 |
| yvl | ok | 17:38 |
| th1a | The pilot sites and perhaps people who need flexible section scheduling will have to ride the bleeding edge. | 17:38 |
| yvl | we can even set up alternative PPA :) | 17:38 |
| th1a | It is time for that. | 17:38 |
| th1a | We might work that out in Brussels... | 17:39 |
| yvl | sure, th1a | 17:39 |
| th1a | Speaking of which, I guess I'll book a flight today arriving May 10 and leaving the 13th? | 17:39 |
| yvl | you didn't book the flight yet? | 17:40 |
| th1a | yvl: We on the same page for that? | 17:40 |
| th1a | No, actually. | 17:40 |
| yvl | you might have some trouble with that | 17:40 |
| yvl | at least now | 17:40 |
| th1a | You mean, getting a flight at all? | 17:41 |
| th1a | Because of the volcano? | 17:41 |
| yvl | yes | 17:41 |
| yvl | at least in the nearest few days | 17:41 |
| th1a | I'll check it out. | 17:42 |
| th1a | The past few days have been very hectic here... | 17:42 |
| th1a | Speaking of which, I have to attend to my houseguests. | 17:42 |
| th1a | Any last words? | 17:42 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:43 | |
| yvl | well, happy birthday to little Julia | 17:43 |
| th1a | Have a great week guys! | 17:43 |
| th1a | Hopefully I'll get through to someone who can restart schooltool.org. | 17:43 |
| yvl | yes | 17:43 |
| th1a | I might have to remember what IRC channel to ask on. | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | please :) | 17:44 |
| yvl | developers would be grateful | 17:44 |
| th1a | You guys need eggs from there? | 17:44 |
| yvl | yeah | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:44 |
| yvl | well, worst case scenario, we can set something up at POV | 17:44 |
| yvl | but you know... buildbots and everything are there | 17:44 |
| th1a | OK, I'll try #canonical-sysadmin | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, is it possible to grade with a score system like 0.0 to 10.0 in the gradebook? | 17:46 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, maybe something like Percent..., right? | 17:47 |
| aelkner | no, we only have a percent score system that requires 0,0 to 100.0 | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | but i could create one like that, correct? | 17:47 |
| aelkner | create the score system you mean? | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | Decimal(0), Decimal(10), Decimal(6)) | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:48 |
| replaceafill | the thing is that teachers here want to grade like 5.6 | 17:48 |
| replaceafill | or 9.2 | 17:48 |
| replaceafill | and even though they could use 0-100 they dont like it | 17:48 |
| replaceafill | they get confused :( | 17:48 |
| aelkner | haven't tried it lately | 17:49 |
| aelkner | let me try someting | 17:49 |
| replaceafill | cool thanks! | 17:49 |
| replaceafill | i was wondering if percent was also discrete | 17:50 |
| aelkner | the gradebook allows 6.8 even in a 0-10 ranged values score system | 17:50 |
| aelkner | so i was wrong when i said no | 17:50 |
| aelkner | no need for percent score system | 17:50 |
| aelkner | just use ranged values 0-10 | 17:50 |
| aelkner | and 5.6 will be valid | 17:51 |
| replaceafill | ah great! | 17:51 |
| replaceafill | thanks aelkner will try that | 17:51 |
| aelkner | no prob | 17:52 |
| th1a | I think nobody wants to deal with our oddball server. | 17:53 |
| th1a | We may have to give in and move it someplace we can manage it ourselves. | 17:53 |
| Lumiere | where is it located atm? | 18:04 |
| Lumiere | and does it cost any money? :) | 18:04 |
| th1a | Lumiere: It is at ServerPronto (awful) but free (to us, via Canonical). | 18:29 |
| th1a | I did get someone's attention at Canonical, so hopefully we'll be rebooted shortly. | 18:30 |
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| replaceafill | eeeeeehhhhhhhh schooltool.org is up again!! | 19:14 |
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| mgedmin | schooltool ir up! | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | was it down for two months? | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | I got two mailman reminders | 20:17 |
| replaceafill | mgedmin, i think it went down last week | 20:17 |
| replaceafill | last friday | 20:19 |
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