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| th1a | menesis: I take it you don't really want me to use the "lucid" milestone. | 16:26 |
|---|---|---|
| menesis | th1a: yes, because it has many bugs assigned that no one will be working on before lucid | 16:27 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:28 |
| menesis | there is a 1.3.1 milestone for next development release | 16:28 |
| menesis | and I will create 1.4.0 for the final release expected 22 | 16:30 |
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| menesis | "lucid" was named "karmic" before, but little of those bugs were fixed, so the name is misleading | 16:32 |
| aelkner | yvl: ayt? | 16:49 |
| yvl | morning aelkner | 16:50 |
| yvl | yes, in a moment | 16:50 |
| aelkner | did you get my email? | 16:50 |
| yvl | yes, read it, we can discuss once I have my coffee with me ;) | 16:51 |
| yvl | ok, aelkner I'm ready :) | 16:59 |
| yvl | first, a small suggestion about naming | 16:59 |
| yvl | maybe schooltool.career ? | 16:59 |
| yvl | or schooltool.careerpath ? | 16:59 |
| yvl | I like the first one better a little bit | 17:00 |
| yvl | schooltool.scheduler is a bit too confusing with the purpose of schooltool.tasks at the moment | 17:00 |
| ignas | yeah, schedule also means well - schedule in schools | 17:01 |
| yvl | true :) | 17:01 |
| ignas | and that might confuse people looking for timetabling stuff | 17:01 |
| yvl | yes, also timetables are called schedule in the UI, at least in some places | 17:01 |
| yvl | aelkner: say something when you're back at you pc | 17:02 |
| yvl | *your | 17:02 |
| ignas | yvl, timetables are not called schedule, but the action of "creating a timetable for something" is | 17:03 |
| yvl | also, "look at timetables of something" | 17:04 |
| yvl | at least it works this way for sections now | 17:05 |
| yvl | maybe | 17:05 |
| th1a | I'm sure dwelsh knows what he wants to call it. | 17:05 |
| th1a | I doubt it will be "scheduler." | 17:06 |
| aelkner | spoke to dwelsh yesterday | 17:06 |
| aelkner | he suggested schooltool.courseplanner | 17:06 |
| aelkner | which is what it does after all | 17:06 |
| th1a | OK, that's settled. | 17:07 |
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| aelkner | yvl: the other two issues from my email? your comments? | 17:09 |
| * yvl doesn't like schooltool.courseplanner, but not my call. schooltool.courseplan would be better, judging from VB app UI schooltool.careerplan would be more appropriate | 17:09 | |
| yvl | ok, comments about other issues... | 17:09 |
| aelkner | courseplan is better | 17:09 |
| aelkner | i also said to jelkner and dwelsh | 17:10 |
| aelkner | we have gradebook and schooltool | 17:10 |
| aelkner | both two-word single works, so to speak :) | 17:10 |
| aelkner | and each word is one syslable | 17:10 |
| aelkner | syllable | 17:10 |
| aelkner | sp? | 17:10 |
| aelkner | anyway, courseplan follows that pattern, so... | 17:11 |
| yvl | I just expressed my opinion, not trying to discuss that | 17:11 |
| aelkner | sorry, but you made a good point, so... | 17:11 |
| aelkner | you can move n | 17:11 |
| yvl | :) | 17:11 |
| aelkner | on | 17:11 |
| yvl | ok, first, implementation of levels will go to schooltool.courseplan | 17:12 |
| aelkner | ? | 17:12 |
| yvl | in a way requirements go to gradebook | 17:12 |
| yvl | schooltool.gradebook has directory layout: | 17:12 |
| yvl | schooltool/gradebook | 17:12 |
| yvl | schooltool/requirement | 17:12 |
| yvl | schooltool.coursplan will have: | 17:12 |
| yvl | schooltool/level | 17:12 |
| yvl | schooltool/courseplan | 17:13 |
| yvl | we will move levels to the core when it makes sense | 17:13 |
| yvl | then, we'll need another container related to the schoolyear, similar to InverventionsSchoolYear | 17:15 |
| yvl | it should contain several things | 17:15 |
| aelkner | app['schooltool.courseplan'] contains objects of type ICoursePlanSchoolYear, yes? | 17:15 |
| yvl | wait, no, I misspoke | 17:16 |
| yvl | similar to cambodia.level | 17:16 |
| yvl | or schooltool.group | 17:16 |
| yvl | adapters from schoolyear to ICoursPlanSomething | 17:16 |
| yvl | I will write that | 17:16 |
| yvl | as I thing it would be best if I set up the initial egg for you | 17:17 |
| yvl | as in - fastest | 17:17 |
| yvl | so, we'll need several per-year things | 17:18 |
| yvl | for one, the career path (the set of planned courses) for each student, as valid in this school year | 17:18 |
| yvl | second, the pathways/clusters/divisions/whatever the school offers this year | 17:18 |
| yvl | this way, school may change the offered pathways each year | 17:20 |
| yvl | student's selected career should be updated (by him) every year | 17:20 |
| yvl | in case some of the selected courses are no longer available | 17:21 |
| yvl | so, answering your question "should we track courses AND schoolyears" - no, we should not | 17:21 |
| aelkner | you're saying we should force the student to replan every year?! | 17:22 |
| yvl | we can copy automatically | 17:23 |
| aelkner | you say update, in what way? | 17:23 |
| th1a | Actually, I like careerplan better, too. ;-) | 17:23 |
| yvl | :))) | 17:23 |
| yvl | from the data model's point of view - yes, student's career plan should be built anew every year from the pathways offered by the school that year | 17:24 |
| th1a | It depends on how they implement it. | 17:24 |
| yvl | th1a - do you mean data model or UI ? | 17:25 |
| yvl | or subscribers that copy the data to the new year? | 17:25 |
| th1a | Data model. | 17:25 |
| yvl | when the year is activated | 17:25 |
| th1a | I don't think we need version of the career paths. | 17:25 |
| th1a | versions. | 17:25 |
| th1a | I say I want to do the "auto body" career path. | 17:26 |
| yvl | hmm | 17:26 |
| th1a | in grade 9 the first class in that sequence is metalwork 1, second is metalwork 2. | 17:26 |
| th1a | So I take metalwork 1. | 17:26 |
| th1a | Next year, the requirements are changed to plasticwork 1 and 2. | 17:27 |
| th1a | The important thing is that my career path is "auto body" | 17:27 |
| th1a | The old career path is just obsolete and gone now. | 17:27 |
| th1a | The new path checks to see what I need to take this year, based on its requirement structure. | 17:28 |
| th1a | aelkner had some stuff we discussed about "pre-" and "post-requirement" attributes for courses we discussed a bit on the phone but I don't think are the way to go. If that is causing some confusion. | 17:29 |
| yvl | hmm | 17:29 |
| th1a | Or, perhaps we need pre-requisites, but not to determine the paths. | 17:30 |
| yvl | looking at the VB app screenshots I got the feel that "pre-" and "post-" are actually "courses required" to take put a course to the career plan and "courses offered after you take it" | 17:30 |
| yvl | where "courses offered after" can be: | 17:30 |
| yvl | 1) calculated from "courses required" attribute on all other courses | 17:31 |
| yvl | 2) just a suggestion, in which case they don't make any sense to me | 17:31 |
| aelkner | i agree we can calculate post-reqs from the pre-reqs of other courses | 17:32 |
| th1a | We just need to steal some skill tree code from an open source MMO. | 17:33 |
| yvl | .... :D | 17:33 |
| yvl | ok, so if I got th1a right, we do want career paths to be configurable per-year | 17:33 |
| yvl | anyway - the courses live and are registered per year | 17:34 |
| yvl | so when the new year is activated, we either: | 17:34 |
| yvl | 1) store career pathways directly in app and update the career paths to point to the courses of the active year | 17:35 |
| yvl | 2) store career pathways per-year and update them to point to the courses of the year they're in | 17:35 |
| th1a | Ah... | 17:35 |
| th1a | Well, I guess one thing aelkner and I were dancing around is whether the paths should not be year-dependent. | 17:36 |
| th1a | That is, should they use a course identifier not dependent on the year. | 17:36 |
| yvl | that is also a choice - implement courses that are stored in app instead of a schoolyear | 17:37 |
| yvl | but I vote no :) | 17:37 |
| th1a | Or just use an identifier across years. | 17:37 |
| th1a | There is a kind of weird element of longevity here. | 17:37 |
| yvl | well we could... but I so do not want to do that | 17:38 |
| th1a | What has to last a long time is a student's choice of career path. | 17:38 |
| ignas | hehehe | 17:38 |
| ignas | EveMon :D | 17:38 |
| th1a | The idea is literally, I pick a path, go away for five years, and the system still knows what my path needs. | 17:38 |
| th1a | It is EveMon. | 17:39 |
| th1a | Which is open source! | 17:39 |
| th1a | So if I pick AutoBody 2001, | 17:39 |
| th1a | and if the system loses the relationship between Autobody 2001 and Autobody 2006, that is a FAIL. | 17:40 |
| ignas | th1a, give yvl your public key | 17:40 |
| ignas | and a link to EveMon | 17:40 |
| ignas | he should see how "planning" looks | 17:40 |
| th1a | You give him your public key! | 17:40 |
| th1a | ;-) | 17:40 |
| ignas | ok, in a couple of hours | 17:40 |
| ignas | got to run now ;) | 17:40 |
| th1a | Or have you closed your account? | 17:40 |
| ignas | nope | 17:40 |
| ignas | ok, running ;) see you | 17:41 |
| th1a | bye | 17:41 |
| yvl | see ya, ignas | 17:41 |
| aelkner | th1a: i need to shower and head down to virginia | 17:41 |
| th1a | Anyhow, see what I'm getting at? | 17:41 |
| yvl | yes | 17:41 |
| aelkner | yvl: can we meet omorrow at the same time? | 17:41 |
| th1a | Also, in 2006, what autobody looked like in 2001 is irrelevant. | 17:41 |
| aelkner | th1a: i need to shower and head down to virginia | 17:41 |
| yvl | aelkner, ok | 17:42 |
| th1a | Unlike most things, the record of the history of the composition of the career path is pretty unnecessary. | 17:42 |
| th1a | I'm just completing my thought. | 17:42 |
| yvl | th1a, you're really helping me to make up my mind | 17:42 |
| aelkner | yvl: can you create the package schooltool.careerplan for tomorrow's meeting? | 17:42 |
| yvl | I can try :D | 17:42 |
| aelkner | :) | 17:42 |
| aelkner | i'[d like to be able to have something concrete to look at | 17:43 |
| aelkner | becuase when i get started with jerry on saturday, you guys won't be around (: | 17:43 |
| yvl | ok | 17:43 |
| aelkner | th1a: you agree that levels go in the new package? | 17:44 |
| aelkner | yvl: will we be creating annotations of course objects? | 17:44 |
| yvl | aelkner, now I think that we will not | 17:44 |
| aelkner | yvl: please think about this carefully for tomorrow | 17:45 |
| yvl | th1a convinced me :) | 17:45 |
| yvl | yes | 17:45 |
| aelkner | we have to nail this stuff down by the time you sign off tomorrow | 17:45 |
| yvl | I understand, aelkner | 17:45 |
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| aelkner | ok, same time tomorrow, then? | 17:47 |
| yvl | yes | 17:47 |
| yvl | see you, aelkner | 17:47 |
| aelkner | thanks, cya | 17:47 |
| yvl | th1a, there is also a small matter about nearest deb release | 17:51 |
| th1a | yes? | 17:51 |
| yvl | but maybe I just better mail you the details tomorrow | 17:51 |
| yvl | mainly | 17:51 |
| yvl | menesis did some deb releases to Karmiv | 17:51 |
| yvl | after the initial release | 17:51 |
| yvl | of schooltool, gradebook, etc. | 17:52 |
| yvl | and I think some of them silently got unannounced | 17:52 |
| th1a | Yes... | 17:52 |
| yvl | it would be convenient now to do a release again | 17:52 |
| yvl | but that leaves us with "lucid" release basically done in karmic | 17:53 |
| th1a | I kind of let that slide. | 17:53 |
| yvl | no prob | 17:53 |
| th1a | (the secret gradebook releases) | 17:53 |
| yvl | it was actually... well, useful for some developers and some release managers | 17:53 |
| th1a | But menesis should be sending me release notes notes *before* that point, of course. | 17:53 |
| th1a | Are you saying we're already freezing Lucid features? | 17:54 |
| yvl | no | 17:54 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:54 |
| yvl | I'd say soft freeze on 8th, hard freeze on 15th | 17:54 |
| th1a | I'm sending an email now... | 17:55 |
| yvl | "soft freeze" - please submit branches for review | 17:55 |
| th1a | That sounds fine. | 17:55 |
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| yvl | ok then | 17:56 |
| yvl | I'll ramble on a bit more about releases on email | 17:56 |
| yvl | just you know... so we all would be clear :) | 17:56 |
| yvl | ah, and a small question | 17:57 |
| yvl | umm | 17:58 |
| yvl | can I expect 1-2 months of dev work to tinker under the hood before the lucid+1? | 17:58 |
| yvl | refactoring, helpers, changing API, things like that | 17:59 |
| yvl | I would explain in more detail what I want to do and why of course | 17:59 |
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| th1a | You mean, in addition to working on the grant deployments? | 18:00 |
| yvl | yes | 18:01 |
| yvl | in the scale [no way .. only if it gives short term gain .. maybe] | 18:01 |
| th1a | scale? | 18:02 |
| yvl | ah, "only if you prove it's worth it" is also an answer | 18:02 |
| yvl | umm, as in answer scale | 18:02 |
| yvl | or is my english broken again?.. | 18:03 |
| th1a | Something's broken. ;-) | 18:03 |
| yvl | hmm, let me put it another way... | 18:04 |
| yvl | there's some big chunks of work that are not very urgent | 18:04 |
| th1a | Let me put it this way: | 18:04 |
| th1a | probably. | 18:04 |
| yvl | thank you | 18:04 |
| th1a | lol | 18:04 |
| yvl | seriously - this is a very good answer | 18:05 |
| yvl | thanks :) | 18:06 |
| yvl | allright then | 18:07 |
| yvl | see you later ;) | 18:07 |
| th1a | later! | 18:07 |
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| ignas | yvl, hola | 18:28 |
| ignas | so, you wanna see a "course planning application" ? | 18:29 |
| ignas | (you'll need windows for that though) | 18:29 |
| ignas | well - call me if you'll need some inspiration | 18:34 |
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