| *** alga has joined #schooltool | 00:01 | |
| *** davidng has joined #schooltool | 00:04 | |
| *** povbot has joined #schooltool | 00:23 | |
| *** alga_ has joined #schooltool | 01:49 | |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 01:52 | |
| *** alga has joined #schooltool | 01:55 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 01:58 | |
| *** alga_ has quit IRC | 01:58 | |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 02:09 | |
| *** davidng has quit IRC | 02:56 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 03:03 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 03:21 | |
| *** lisppaste5 has joined #schooltool | 03:47 | |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 04:09 | |
| *** th1a has quit IRC | 04:15 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 04:37 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #schooltool | 05:00 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 05:11 | |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 05:16 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 05:41 | |
| replaceafill | aelkner, ping | 06:43 |
|---|---|---|
| *** pcardune has joined #schooltool | 06:43 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 07:28 | |
| *** yvl has joined #schooltool | 07:53 | |
| aelkner | replaceafill: ayt? | 08:15 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, yep | 08:15 |
| replaceafill | reading your mail | 08:15 |
| aelkner | cool | 08:15 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, "sign on as various users and click on the Intervention tab | 08:16 |
| replaceafill | at the top to see if each user's dashboard renders properly and then | 08:16 |
| replaceafill | follow some of the links you may find there" | 08:16 |
| replaceafill | did that but i got nothing | 08:17 |
| replaceafill | i was looking for goals and stuff | 08:17 |
| aelkner | looks lke they haven't added any yet | 08:17 |
| aelkner | did you try jelner as a user? | 08:17 |
| aelkner | jelkner | 08:17 |
| replaceafill | yes | 08:17 |
| replaceafill | log in as jelkner | 08:18 |
| aelkner | so the dashboard render but is empty? | 08:18 |
| replaceafill | go to interventions tab | 08:18 |
| replaceafill | yes | 08:18 |
| replaceafill | Intervention Dashboard | 08:18 |
| replaceafill | Inbox | 08:18 |
| aelkner | i'd say confidence is high | 08:18 |
| replaceafill | nothing on the table though | 08:18 |
| aelkner | my recommendation is a go for deployment | 08:19 |
| aelkner | defcon 2 | 08:19 |
| * replaceafill looking for defcon 2's meaning :P | 08:19 | |
| yvl | by the way, the old "search all interventions" view should be around? | 08:19 |
| aelkner | nope | 08:19 |
| aelkner | it's not needed anymore | 08:19 |
| aelkner | it was really redundant | 08:19 |
| yvl | ah, yes | 08:19 |
| yvl | I remember now :) | 08:19 |
| aelkner | an admin can search for a person in Manage PErsons | 08:20 |
| yvl | sorry, didn't get my morning coffee yet | 08:20 |
| aelkner | yes, you were at the sprint when that was discussed | 08:20 |
| aelkner | no prob | 08:20 |
| aelkner | defcon is joke from the 80's movire, War Games | 08:20 |
| aelkner | movie | 08:21 |
| aelkner | it's not important | 08:21 |
| replaceafill | :P | 08:21 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, if i go to a section i get an intervention button | 08:26 |
| replaceafill | now i see links in the "Message and Observations" box for a student | 08:26 |
| replaceafill | and there's the famous: darkgray!!! :D | 08:28 |
| aelkner | replaceafill: so is everything ok? | 08:55 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, it seems ok | 08:56 |
| aelkner | glad to hear it | 08:56 |
| aelkner | so you'll have jelkner try it out this morning? | 08:56 |
| replaceafill | yes, it's already set | 08:56 |
| replaceafill | when he logs in he'll use it | 08:57 |
| aelkner | i'm going to be speaking to him today, so i'm glad we'll be able to talk about it | 08:57 |
| *** replaceafill has quit IRC | 09:09 | |
| *** alga has joined #schooltool | 09:47 | |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 09:59 | |
| *** pcardune has joined #schooltool | 10:19 | |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 11:41 | |
| *** jinty has joined #schooltool | 12:19 | |
| *** yvl has quit IRC | 12:20 | |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 12:34 | |
| *** pcardune has joined #schooltool | 13:02 | |
| *** yvl has joined #schooltool | 14:16 | |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 15:14 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #schooltool | 15:55 | |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 16:04 | |
| yvl | hi th1a | 16:24 |
| yvl | two questions regarding your mail | 16:24 |
| th1a | Hi yvl. | 16:24 |
| yvl | is there a reason why you suggested to move things from Manage to Manage->Advanced instead of removing them entirely? | 16:25 |
| th1a | Well... it would probably be good to be able to get to them. | 16:26 |
| th1a | I don't have a super strong feeling about it. | 16:26 |
| th1a | We could just get rid of them for starters. | 16:27 |
| yvl | then I vote for removing them | 16:27 |
| yvl | for now | 16:27 |
| yvl | another thing is regarding action buttons | 16:28 |
| yvl | we kind of still have technical debt on them | 16:28 |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 16:28 | |
| yvl | you might recall the thing were we can't sort *some* of the buttons | 16:28 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:28 |
| yvl | well, good news - we can't remove or modify them either :) | 16:28 |
| replaceafill | :| | 16:28 |
| yvl | at least, easily | 16:29 |
| yvl | so, we can: | 16:29 |
| th1a | Maybe for the prototype then it is better to have none? | 16:29 |
| yvl | 1) remove all action buttons, add new ones were needed | 16:29 |
| *** mgedmin has joined #schooltool | 16:30 | |
| yvl | 2) remove only old-style buttons (don't know what will disappear), add what is missing, manually disable buttons we don't need | 16:30 |
| yvl | the thing is, disabling, changing order or title of a button is basically adding another definition that overrides the old one | 16:31 |
| th1a | Woudn't it be quickest for prototyping to just get rid of all of them and hard code in the few links we need? | 16:31 |
| yvl | so every time gradebook or schooltool gains a button, it will magically appear in schooltool.cambodia | 16:32 |
| yvl | yes, getting rid of everything and re-adding what we need is a bit quicker in my opinion | 16:32 |
| aelkner | yvl: i was wondering myself why we could start from the assumption of removing all action b uttons | 16:34 |
| aelkner | we have Manage, after all | 16:34 |
| aelkner | all the views could look like Manage does | 16:34 |
| aelkner | in the sense that it's a kiosk of sorts | 16:35 |
| th1a | I'd rather spend the week focusing on the interface than plumbing. | 16:35 |
| aelkner | like I always say, like an ATM | 16:35 |
| aelkner | The UI should ideally be that simple | 16:35 |
| aelkner | the start with the tabs we already have | 16:35 |
| aelkner | each click either takes them to a final place (like the intervention dashboard) | 16:36 |
| aelkner | or to a list (or oter structure like a table) of links | 16:36 |
| aelkner | Who ever complained abot an ATM interface? | 16:36 |
| aelkner | about | 16:36 |
| aelkner | it is easy to disable all action buttons | 16:37 |
| aelkner | just a couple lines of code/registration change | 16:37 |
| th1a | aelkner wants his greenscreen terminal back. | 16:37 |
| aelkner | hehe | 16:38 |
| yvl | :) | 16:38 |
| aelkner | I just know from experience | 16:38 |
| th1a | You know what rocked? | 16:38 |
| th1a | Gopher. | 16:38 |
| aelkner | never used it | 16:38 |
| aelkner | what of type of software is that? | 16:38 |
| aelkner | terminal? | 16:38 |
| th1a | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_%28protocol%29 | 16:39 |
| th1a | Anyhow, I'm going to have to take Julia to the pediatrician in a few minutes. | 16:39 |
| aelkner | yvl: shall we continue? | 16:39 |
| th1a | So yes, I vote for just going action-buttonless. | 16:39 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Did you start anything yesterday? | 16:39 |
| replaceafill | yes | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | i have one question | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | what fields are going to be garbage in the new person views? | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | sorry for the flooding: | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Prefix | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | First name * | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Middle name | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Last name * | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Suffix | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Preferred name | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Gender | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Birth date (yyyy-mm-dd) | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Group | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Advisor | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Username * | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Username | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Password | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Confirm | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | ID | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Ethnicity | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Language | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Place of birth | 16:40 |
| replaceafill | Citizenship | 16:40 |
| mgedmin | what, username twice? | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | that's the form for person | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | :| | 16:41 |
| th1a | I don't want to go through trying to figure out what demographics they need right now, since that's so easy to change. | 16:41 |
| replaceafill | sorry, one is the label and the other one is the tip :) | 16:41 |
| th1a | So why don't you axe Group, Advisor, and everything after ID. | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | cool | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | and about contact info | 16:42 |
| replaceafill | are we going to add one by default? | 16:42 |
| yvl | btw, username - autogenerated | 16:42 |
| th1a | yvl: yes. | 16:42 |
| yvl | password - chopped out | 16:42 |
| th1a | only for students though. | 16:43 |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 16:43 | |
| th1a | (eventually) | 16:43 |
| yvl | ah, yes | 16:43 |
| th1a | For contacts, can we just add fields to create one parent contact at the end of the form. | 16:43 |
| th1a | That'll do for starters. | 16:43 |
| th1a | Or, I guess you might as well be able to set the type. | 16:44 |
| th1a | That isn't hard. | 16:44 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i was thinking more of self contact | 16:44 |
| th1a | These are all kids. | 16:44 |
| th1a | In Cambodia. | 16:44 |
| * yvl votes for no self-contact, just one parent contact built into the new student / edit student forms | 16:45 | |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:45 |
| replaceafill | ok | 16:45 |
| yvl | maybe self-contact for the rest of the people later on | 16:45 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:45 |
| th1a | We're going to have to split that now. | 16:45 |
| th1a | (it was inevitable anyhow) | 16:45 |
| th1a | OK, any questions for me before I bolt -- you guys can talk among yourselves -- particularly if you can get aelkner started on a task. | 16:46 |
| replaceafill | yvl, my new question is the autogenerated username? | 16:47 |
| replaceafill | similar to the intid logic? | 16:47 |
| yvl | a moment, replaceafill | 16:48 |
| replaceafill | ok | 16:48 |
| yvl | th1a - did you have a chance to chat with aelkner about how gradebook should look? | 16:48 |
| yvl | we should need something like one page and few report cards? | 16:49 |
| yvl | replaceafill: some namechooser that takes up first unused... id or something | 16:52 |
| th1a | The gradebook can look like the gradebook now, just without any options to add or change anything. | 16:52 |
| th1a | The report sheet setup will have to be streamlined. | 16:52 |
| * th1a leaves for an hour or so. | 16:53 | |
| yvl | good luck, th1a | 16:53 |
| * yvl goes away to think and make coffee for few minutes... | 16:53 | |
| aelkner | replaceafill: just got off the phone with jelkner | 16:54 |
| aelkner | he says he needs the new features of schooltool.gradebook | 16:54 |
| replaceafill | ok, time to update the gradebook then | 16:54 |
| aelkner | as it can take up to a month (even more) before one of my fixes reaches the eggs | 16:55 |
| aelkner | and as i isn't even merged into trunk | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | he's using a branch right now though | 16:55 |
| aelkner | you'll need to use my latest branch | 16:55 |
| aelkner | what branch? | 16:55 |
| replaceafill | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool.gradebook/trunk/ | 16:56 |
| replaceafill | revno: 136 | 16:56 |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 16:56 | |
| aelkner | yvl: what happened to my branches in launchpad?! | 16:56 |
| aelkner | ah, never mind | 16:57 |
| aelkner | i had to chagne to any status | 16:57 |
| aelkner | i guess menesis made them inactive | 16:57 |
| replaceafill | aelkner, so, what branch do you want me to use? | 16:57 |
| aelkner | https://code.launchpad.net/~aelkner/schooltool.gradebook/january_fixes | 16:58 |
| aelkner | lp~aelkner, of course | 16:58 |
| aelkner | lp:~aelkner, i mean | 16:58 |
| aelkner | th1a: can i start a discussion about the UI? | 16:59 |
| mgedmin | anybody care about the future of zope 3? 30-minute meeting in #zope starts in 5 seconds | 16:59 |
| yvl | ok... | 17:02 |
| yvl | so, here's my rough plan | 17:02 |
| yvl | some time soon you'll get the schooltool.cambodia branch | 17:02 |
| yvl | basically our development will be focused on two things | 17:03 |
| yvl | 1) auto-magical data setup | 17:03 |
| yvl | 2) new UI pages / action buttons / other tweeks | 17:03 |
| yvl | all changes should be done only in schooltool.cambodia | 17:04 |
| yvl | (I know, I'm stating the obvious, but bear with me :) | 17:04 |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:05 |
| yvl | for perons, there are schooltool.cambodia.person directory | 17:05 |
| yvl | IBasicPersonLayer is killed, so add and import forms will not appear | 17:05 |
| replaceafill | ah good, that was another of my questions :) | 17:05 |
| yvl | cambodia.person has it's own overrides.zcml and configure.zcml | 17:06 |
| yvl | that currently imports corresponding files from schooltool | 17:06 |
| yvl | eventually, we might change the catalog, person factory | 17:07 |
| yvl | maybe demographics | 17:07 |
| yvl | maybe replace BasicPerson with CambodiaPerson | 17:07 |
| yvl | or something even more crazy | 17:07 |
| yvl | so that'll be the place to define such things | 17:07 |
| yvl | and schooltool.cambodia.person.browser is kind of a good place do write add / edit forms | 17:08 |
| yvl | and the separate search views | 17:08 |
| yvl | that may just silently filter persons by group | 17:08 |
| yvl | also it is a good place to register links to Manage, also action buttons | 17:09 |
| yvl | stuff like that | 17:09 |
| yvl | then comes the gradebook | 17:09 |
| yvl | as almost all of the configuration functionality will be chopped out | 17:10 |
| yvl | (oh, and it will have schooltool.cambodia.gradebook) | 17:10 |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 17:10 | |
| yvl | the first thing to do is to write sane default activities, etc. | 17:10 |
| yvl | I don't remember well how the worksheets are deployed now | 17:11 |
| yvl | but basically, some subscriber(s) will have to create them | 17:11 |
| yvl | also - set up the correct score system | 17:12 |
| yvl | (I guess 1-10, but we'll wait for Javier's answer) | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | i saw some F-A yesterday | 17:12 |
| *** alga has joined #schooltool | 17:12 | |
| yvl | also, create the "final term grade" or something activity for each section | 17:12 |
| yvl | or however the setup should be done. | 17:13 |
| replaceafill | "For grade 12 (national examination) the scale is from F to A" | 17:13 |
| replaceafill | "And for grade 7 to grade 11, the students will be graded by the scale from poor to excellent." :S | 17:13 |
| yvl | well that's helpful :| | 17:14 |
| * yvl sighs | 17:14 | |
| yvl | so, I will not cut out current action buttons for few days | 17:14 |
| yvl | so that you could set up stuff like schoolyears, etc. | 17:15 |
| yvl | but once there are enough views to get the minimal school setup | 17:15 |
| yvl | *all* action buttons and everything under Manage; all that is not registered in schooltool.cambodia will go away | 17:16 |
| yvl | well, that's kind of it. | 17:17 |
| yvl | umm | 17:18 |
| yvl | comments? | 17:18 |
| aelkner | yes, definely we should start by getting rid of all action buttons | 17:19 |
| replaceafill | yvl, we're going to set up a default schoolyear and term, right? | 17:19 |
| aelkner | i think this excersize is going to show us a lot about how th UI should have been been built | 17:19 |
| aelkner | i would need to create a different version of the gradebook overview view | 17:21 |
| aelkner | it would have most of the same functionality as the standard one | 17:21 |
| aelkner | it would need to have buttons on it for where the user may want to go | 17:21 |
| aelkner | as for the subscriber, yes, we need an automatic way to set up their report sheets | 17:22 |
| aelkner | i would suggest evolution for that as we can use schooltool.cambodia.generations for that | 17:23 |
| yvl | no | 17:23 |
| aelkner | ok, maybe not | 17:23 |
| yvl | similar initialization as in other places | 17:24 |
| aelkner | how abotu schoolyear add subscription> | 17:24 |
| aelkner | ok, wait | 17:24 |
| aelkner | here's the thing | 17:24 |
| aelkner | you have to understand the mechanism that we already have ion place | 17:24 |
| aelkner | report sheets get created by the admin user (more about dong this automatically later) | 17:25 |
| aelkner | then then get deployed to a term (though deploying to an entire school year is more practical | 17:25 |
| aelkner | we could do that deployment automatically also | 17:25 |
| aelkner | anyway, when a section is created | 17:26 |
| aelkner | there is a subscriber that automatically deploys the report sheet to the newly created section | 17:26 |
| aelkner | so we have the freedom to deploy report sheets to schoolyears | 17:26 |
| aelkner | and let the automatic machinery deploy the rest to the sections | 17:27 |
| yvl | sounds right | 17:27 |
| yvl | I got the impression, that there will be one and only one worksheet? | 17:28 |
| aelkner | i would guess it wold be that simple | 17:28 |
| yvl | great | 17:28 |
| aelkner | th1a seemed to be focused on the simple solution | 17:29 |
| * yvl too | 17:29 | |
| aelkner | or, in other words, it could be said that cambodia's data model is a special case | 17:29 |
| aelkner | and as such, will be conveniently simple in some cases | 17:30 |
| yvl | that's the whole idea | 17:30 |
| yvl | so yes, you may also need a very simple view | 17:30 |
| yvl | that ignores the worksheets, etc. | 17:30 |
| yvl | switching between taught sections should be enough | 17:31 |
| aelkner | the gradebook overview, though flawed in its implementation, provides a lot of functionality | 17:31 |
| aelkner | so i would guess that not much of it would change | 17:31 |
| aelkner | but navigation | 17:31 |
| aelkner | managing worksheetsm etc. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | that will be greatly simplified | 17:31 |
| aelkner | i would start with my new version of the overview | 17:31 |
| aelkner | and add the buttons to it as need be | 17:32 |
| yvl | sounds good | 17:32 |
| yvl | so, new version of the overview, and automatic sheet definition/deployment + the one activity or something | 17:32 |
| yvl | the whole idea is that *everything* unnecessary should be hidden | 17:33 |
| yvl | like column totals | 17:33 |
| yvl | (bad example, they are hidden by default I think) | 17:33 |
| yvl | but you get the idea | 17:33 |
| yvl | again, don't worry about navigation for the next 1-2 days | 17:33 |
| yvl | I'll specifically leave all action buttons in place | 17:34 |
| aelkner | that's fine | 17:34 |
| aelkner | actually, column totals are visable by default | 17:34 |
| yvl | or you all will have trouble creating schoolyears, courses, sections ;) | 17:34 |
| aelkner | but that can easily be changed | 17:34 |
| aelkner | ah, you're thinking tests | 17:35 |
| yvl | not just tests | 17:35 |
| aelkner | where else? | 17:35 |
| yvl | well, you might want to run the server and look at the database | 17:35 |
| yvl | you'll have to use a NEW database anyway | 17:36 |
| yvl | so... | 17:36 |
| yvl | no data whatsoever | 17:36 |
| aelkner | i don't understand that part | 17:36 |
| aelkner | about the db, what would be different? | 17:37 |
| aelkner | i meanm we may not expose certain things | 17:37 |
| aelkner | but isn't it possible to keep everything there? | 17:37 |
| yvl | it will most likely work | 17:37 |
| yvl | but I strongly suggest to get a fresh start | 17:37 |
| yvl | we won't be writing generation scripts this week | 17:38 |
| yvl | and we may be changing data | 17:38 |
| yvl | so, use old databases at your own risk | 17:38 |
| aelkner | that's why you were talking about redefining the app object, right? | 17:38 |
| yvl | no | 17:38 |
| yvl | we are not redefining the app object | 17:38 |
| yvl | it's just a name of a directory | 17:39 |
| yvl | like schooltool.stapp2005 | 17:39 |
| yvl | schooltool.stapp2007 | 17:39 |
| yvl | now we also have schooltool.cambodia.app | 17:39 |
| aelkner | well that's a different matter | 17:39 |
| yvl | yes | 17:40 |
| yvl | well, you had my friendly warning :) | 17:40 |
| yvl | for a day or so, you're kind of safe | 17:40 |
| yvl | to use the old database, I guess | 17:41 |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 17:41 | |
| yvl | just... don't expect me to fix stuff if it gets broken. | 17:41 |
| yvl | not the right way to do prototyping | 17:41 |
| yvl | but don't worry too much about this ;) | 17:42 |
| replaceafill | yvl, are we going to throw away what we do this week? | 17:42 |
| replaceafill | i ask because of the tests | 17:43 |
| yvl | most likely not | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | are we going to add them | 17:43 |
| yvl | feel free to test as much or as little as you want | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | i think, that if we're going to keep it, some tests are good | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | but if it's just an experiment... | 17:44 |
| yvl | we'll keep it, or most of it I think | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 17:44 |
| yvl | I guess... that we'll keep it | 17:44 |
| yvl | but you know. | 17:44 |
| yvl | stuff happens :) | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | :D | 17:44 |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 17:46 | |
| yvl | allright | 17:46 |
| yvl | I'll email you when the branch is ready | 17:46 |
| *** replaceafill has quit IRC | 18:37 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #schooltool | 18:50 | |
| *** replaceafill has quit IRC | 18:51 | |
| *** alga has joined #schooltool | 18:52 | |
| th1a | Sounds like you guys have things sorted. Any questions for me yvl, aelkner? | 18:57 |
| yvl | not at the moment, th1a | 18:59 |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 19:16 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #schooltool | 19:27 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 19:43 | |
| *** replaceafill has quit IRC | 19:45 | |
| *** pcardune has joined #schooltool | 19:56 | |
| *** jinty has left #schooltool | 20:16 | |
| *** jelkner has quit IRC | 20:30 | |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 20:31 | |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 20:37 | |
| *** pcardune has joined #schooltool | 21:20 | |
| *** jelkner has quit IRC | 22:02 | |
| *** pcardune has quit IRC | 22:23 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #schooltool | 22:28 | |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 22:32 | |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 22:36 | |
| *** replaceafill has quit IRC | 22:46 | |
| *** pcardune has joined #schooltool | 22:47 | |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 23:33 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 23:36 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!