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| ignas | th1a, good morning ;) | 15:57 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | Hi ignas. | 15:59 |
| ignas | don't know if you were informed, but I think Justas is sick today | 15:59 |
| th1a | I have not been informed. | 16:00 |
| th1a | Have you had any EVE time lately? | 16:00 |
| ignas | nope, haven't logged in for a couple of weeks I think | 16:02 |
| th1a | There's been lots of action, but I've been too busy to participate. | 16:03 |
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| th1a | hi menesis, aelkner, replaceafill. | 16:31 |
| replaceafill | good morning | 16:31 |
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| th1a | aelkner? | 16:33 |
| th1a | aelkner seems to be having some problems... | 16:34 |
| th1a | ayt menesis? | 16:36 |
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| th1a | :-S | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | :D | 16:37 |
| alga | Justas phoned me to tell you that he will not attend the meeting | 16:38 |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 16:38 | |
| th1a | Thanks alga. | 16:38 |
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 16:38 | |
| th1a | And menesis seems to be having connection problems. | 16:38 |
| menesis | ... | 16:39 |
| menesis | had some "cannot send to channel" error | 16:39 |
| menesis | is ok now | 16:39 |
| th1a | That' s what aelkner was getting. | 16:39 |
| th1a | menesis: Did you do something to fix it? | 16:41 |
| menesis | restarted Pidgin | 16:41 |
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| th1a | menesis: What have you been up to? | 16:43 |
| menesis | I have uploaded a few more packages to REVU (new packages review tool for Ubuntu) | 16:44 |
| menesis | 3 were uploaded and 3 more were advocated. | 16:45 |
| menesis | some are still waiting for review | 16:45 |
| menesis | and those that were uploaded are still sitting in the NEW queue | 16:45 |
| menesis | so things started moving into Ubuntu, but very slowly | 16:46 |
| th1a | Who are we dependent upon now? | 16:46 |
| menesis | I have been reading Ubuntu wiki, started to write a MOTU application, not ready yet and I won't get endorsements for that little work yet :/ | 16:47 |
| th1a | So a MOTU could push it forward? | 16:48 |
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| menesis | The two people apart from Daniel that reviewed packages were https://launchpad.net/~quadrispro and https://launchpad.net/~jonathan | 16:48 |
| menesis | but I don't know if they will do any more for me | 16:48 |
| th1a | So they did review some of the first batch? | 16:48 |
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| menesis | yes they reviewed 6 packages and I uploaded 6 more | 16:48 |
| th1a | So what's the state of the reviewed ones? | 16:49 |
| menesis | but at this pace all needed packages won't be reviewed in time :/ | 16:49 |
| ignas | hmm, th1a wasn't Mathew a MOTU, and can't he help us? | 16:50 |
| th1a | Right now I'm just trying to get a sense of how many steps there are. | 16:50 |
| th1a | Do we just need ANY MOTU? | 16:50 |
| menesis | Ideally I would be a MOTU and upload packages myself | 16:51 |
| ignas | yes, I understand but Matthew Gallagher is a MOTU already, and maybe he can help you somehow, as he has contributed to schooltool before | 16:52 |
| menesis | but to become one I need someone needs to know me and endorse me | 16:52 |
| ignas | and Lumiere should have a way of contacting him | 16:52 |
| th1a | What ignas is saying makes sense if all MOTU's are created equal. | 16:53 |
| menesis | for now I need two people to review my package and someone to upload it to lucid | 16:53 |
| menesis | example: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/zope.intid | 16:53 |
| menesis | a package I uploaded | 16:53 |
| th1a | And that's pretty much the whole process to get in Universe? | 16:53 |
| ignas | menesis, can any MOTU review the package? | 16:53 |
| menesis | but still I don't see it in lucid | 16:53 |
| menesis | ignas: yes | 16:54 |
| ignas | then I guess it's the least mattva01 can do | 16:54 |
| ignas | he might now others who can help us too | 16:54 |
| th1a | This sounds like the correct route while menesis is working on becoming a MOTU. | 16:55 |
| menesis | yes, anyone who can upload packages now | 16:56 |
| menesis | btw many zope packages were updated for debian testing, and they are now in lucid | 16:56 |
| menesis | that's good news | 16:56 |
| menesis | and I have commit rights to debian's pkg-zope svn | 16:57 |
| ignas | menesis, you need Mats email? or th1a will contact him? | 16:57 |
| menesis | fixed a few packages there | 16:57 |
| menesis | and will do more. going through Debian is easier but takes even more time | 16:58 |
| menesis | ignas: I don't know Matt | 16:58 |
| th1a | I just chatted Matt. | 16:58 |
| th1a | He's coming over. | 16:58 |
| th1a | Momentarily. | 16:58 |
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| ignas | cool | 16:58 |
| th1a | Lumiere: ayt? | 16:59 |
| th1a | mattva01, meet menesis. | 16:59 |
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| th1a | menesis is taking care of guiding our packages into Ubuntu. | 16:59 |
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| mattva01 | excellent | 16:59 |
| th1a | He's not a MOTU yet though, so apparently we need some MOTU love. | 16:59 |
| th1a | You might want to check the irc log to catch up with the conversation... | 17:00 |
| menesis | mattva01: hello :) | 17:00 |
| mattva01 | ooh, sorry to say, but I am not currently a MOTU | 17:01 |
| th1a | Ah. | 17:02 |
| mattva01 | I need to go through the process again | 17:02 |
| mattva01 | but | 17:02 |
| mattva01 | I can get you in touch with MOTU's who can vouch for you | 17:02 |
| th1a | You're an Ubuntu Developer but not a MOTU? | 17:02 |
| * th1a is trying to get the terminology right. | 17:02 | |
| menesis | well, I need anyone who can review, advocate, and upload my packages | 17:02 |
| mattva01 | yeah :p | 17:03 |
| th1a | I should point out that I will PAY someone to do this work if necessary. | 17:03 |
| th1a | If that's not considered a conflict of interest. | 17:04 |
| th1a | ;-) | 17:04 |
| mattva01 | how quick does this need to be done? | 17:04 |
| menesis | ...and then write and endorsement on my MOTU Application. | 17:05 |
| th1a | The goal is to get into Lucid. | 17:05 |
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| menesis | but I haven't written one. and I have to list some work on Ubuntu there, so not yet | 17:05 |
| mattva01 | If I get 2 MOTU's to look over your stuff in the next couple of days, will you be ready menesis? | 17:05 |
| menesis | mattva01: yes | 17:06 |
| mattva01 | oh, ok | 17:06 |
| menesis | really I don't have all packages ready for Lucid | 17:06 |
| menesis | but there are ~100 of them in total. zope and schooltool | 17:06 |
| mattva01 | I remember, I tried packaging them once, it's an insane job | 17:06 |
| menesis | they are all very similar | 17:08 |
| mattva01 | are you using cdbs, debhelper, or doing it manually? | 17:09 |
| menesis | debhelper and python-van.pydeb | 17:10 |
| mattva01 | that works | 17:10 |
| th1a | Sorry... mattva01 and I drifted into a private chat. | 17:15 |
| mattva01 | I'd suggest packaging something really simple first | 17:15 |
| mattva01 | for the review | 17:15 |
| th1a | I believe we did that? | 17:15 |
| mattva01 | make sure it is perfect in every way :p | 17:15 |
| ignas | menesis, would you like to package mgedmin's pyspacewar? :) | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | ++! ;_ | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | ) | 17:16 |
| mattva01 | read through this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess | 17:17 |
| mattva01 | if pyspacewar is not in ubuntu yet, follow this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages | 17:18 |
| menesis | mattva01: I'm trying to upload only packages that are perfect | 17:18 |
| th1a | I believe it would make more sense to use a simple package we actually need. ;-) | 17:19 |
| menesis | there are more that are in the ppa for karmic, with varying number of tasks that need to be done the same | 17:19 |
| th1a | We do already have some packages in the pipeline. | 17:20 |
| mattva01 | basically your very first package into universe has to recieve a decent amount of scrutiny, after that its optional | 17:20 |
| th1a | We just need to keep them moving. | 17:20 |
| menesis | ignas: no thanks, I have hundreds of packages to work on already | 17:20 |
| menesis | :) | 17:20 |
| th1a | menesis, Is there one package we should be pushing, then? | 17:20 |
| menesis | don't know, all are the same | 17:21 |
| menesis | except the schooltool packages that are more than zope libraries | 17:22 |
| menesis | install init.d scripts, write logs, create users | 17:22 |
| mattva01 | problem is , you need a package with no dependencies | 17:22 |
| mattva01 | or dependencies that are already in ubuntu | 17:23 |
| menesis | I would like to upload the schooltool-2009, schooltool-common package and get it reviewed | 17:23 |
| menesis | but it has 100 deps :( | 17:23 |
| th1a | That sound more like the end than the beginning. | 17:23 |
| th1a | sounds | 17:24 |
| menesis | it is | 17:24 |
| th1a | But I'd imagine we must have a few packages that only depend on the Zope packages already in Ubuntu now. | 17:24 |
| ignas | yeah, that's why I suggested pyspacewars ;) because it only depends on pygame, which means - it has 0 dependencies, even if it does not "add" to the effort | 17:24 |
| menesis | so I started with packages that have all dependencies available | 17:24 |
| ignas | ahh, if you have those already | 17:24 |
| th1a | OK, right. | 17:24 |
| ignas | then I guess you don't need any additional ones :) | 17:24 |
| th1a | menesis is on the right track. | 17:25 |
| mattva01 | so, we need a sponsor | 17:25 |
| th1a | The problem here is that we need to constantly keep this shark moving forward. | 17:25 |
| th1a | If at a certain point we say "oh well, now we wait," we're dead. | 17:25 |
| menesis | everything is going ok except that we have only two weeks left until feature freeze | 17:26 |
| menesis | I have started way too late | 17:26 |
| mattva01 | yeah, TBH there is no way you are gonna get it done in time | 17:26 |
| mattva01 | but | 17:26 |
| th1a | Then we're starting on M*** M***. | 17:27 |
| mattva01 | we might as well try | 17:27 |
| menesis | communication with others is my weak spot, always was | 17:27 |
| th1a | Stopping is not an option. | 17:27 |
| th1a | menesis, You're doing ok. | 17:27 |
| th1a | This is a pain in the ass the size of Siberia. | 17:27 |
| mattva01 | ubuntu politics are kinda like wikipedia's ......... | 17:28 |
| th1a | Yeah, but in that analogy, we also work for Jimmy Wales. | 17:28 |
| th1a | So it isn't hopeless. | 17:28 |
| th1a | And are packages are fine. | 17:28 |
| menesis | ... | 17:29 |
| th1a | And at worst, if we don't get into Lucid, we know that getting into 2010.10 requires starting NOW. | 17:29 |
| mattva01 | I wish my membership was still active, because now my now my search of friendly MOTUs has to include Luke Faraone | 17:29 |
| mattva01 | He can get you approved quickly, but he can be......snarky | 17:30 |
| th1a | Snark we can handle. | 17:32 |
| mattva01 | i'm going to start my renewal process, so if we miss lucid, i'll be able to help you out more directly | 17:32 |
| th1a | Being a philanthropic project funded by the SABDFL should be good snark armor. | 17:32 |
| th1a | So... I just need to make sure we've got an "action item" here. | 17:34 |
| th1a | mattva01: Are you going to put out some pings on our behalf? | 17:35 |
| mattva01 | yes | 17:35 |
| mattva01 | already sent one to luke | 17:35 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:35 |
| mattva01 | i'll send one out to my original sponsor as well | 17:36 |
| mattva01 | in the meantime, menesis,join #ubuntu-moto | 17:36 |
| mattva01 | gah | 17:36 |
| th1a | And don't hold back on the "this is a project funded by Mark for use in schools in the developing world, and I've got the packages working in a five county deployment in Virginia..." | 17:36 |
| mattva01 | #ubuntu-motu | 17:36 |
| menesis | I'm always there | 17:36 |
| th1a | OK, thanks mattva01. | 17:37 |
| th1a | Lets move on to a couple other issues, then. | 17:38 |
| th1a | aelkner was up here last week and we added a bunch of intervention bugs and improvements, which he is working on. | 17:39 |
| th1a | I'm also hoping his IRC will start magically working again in the near future. | 17:39 |
| ignas | th1a, you mean bug-fixes? | 17:39 |
| th1a | bug reports. | 17:39 |
| th1a | and improvement requests. | 17:40 |
| th1a | Which he is working on. | 17:40 |
| th1a | Oh... one little bit of news... | 17:40 |
| th1a | I haven't really announced to everyone that replaceafill is going to be working full time on SchoolTool this year. | 17:41 |
| ignas | replaceafill, congratulations! | 17:41 |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:41 |
| replaceafill | ignas, thanks! | 17:41 |
| th1a | So congratulations and welcome aboard. | 17:41 |
| replaceafill | th1a, thanks | 17:41 |
| th1a | We still have the small detail of exactly how much we're going to pay him, so I'm expecting an email on that subject. | 17:41 |
| replaceafill | th1a, will send it soon | 17:42 |
| th1a | replaceafill: How is the CanDo work coming? | 17:42 |
| replaceafill | i finished the iep feature | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | we met with dwelsh yesterday | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | and he liked what we have | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | he's going to show it to some iep conseulors | 17:43 |
| replaceafill | and he says there's a teacher anxious to using it | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | with a few iep students | 17:44 |
| th1a | OK, so do you need something to do? | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | i just wanted to talk about a feature fsufitchi worked on | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | i wanted to discuss it with yvl, but he's sick | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | maybe menesis can help me | 17:44 |
| th1a | The student competency report? | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | yes, the new version of it | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | Validate Competency Resume | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | the thing is that fsufitchi defined and use some new slots in the rml_macros.pt | 17:46 |
| replaceafill | and he wanted those slots available in schooltool 1.0.4 | 17:46 |
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| menesis | I can apply a patch and release a new stable version | 17:46 |
| replaceafill | menesis, great, will send you fsufitchi's rml_macros.pt file | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | it's a small change though | 17:47 |
| menesis | just tell me if there are any other patches I need to apply | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | menesis, no, just that one | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | everything else is in the cando side | 17:47 |
| replaceafill | i will apply fsufitchi's patch once we get a new schooltool 1.0.5? | 17:48 |
| replaceafill | that's the next one, right? | 17:48 |
| menesis | There was a backport request that yvl has done https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~justas-pov/schooltool/schooltool_1.0_rml_backport | 17:48 |
| menesis | but that is a prerequisite for the patch I guess | 17:49 |
| replaceafill | hhmm | 17:49 |
| replaceafill | maybe, the thing is that fsufitchi asked me for yvl's email address | 17:49 |
| menesis | yes, next will be a 1.0.5 | 17:49 |
| replaceafill | maybe they talked about it | 17:50 |
| replaceafill | menesis, just sent you fsufitchi's pt file | 17:51 |
| replaceafill | menesis, thanks | 17:51 |
| replaceafill | th1a, so... gradebooks and reports are working with and without the iep feautre | 17:51 |
| th1a | Oh, nice. | 17:52 |
| th1a | in CanDo? | 17:52 |
| replaceafill | i guess dwelsh will have some feedback after presenting it to the counselours | 17:52 |
| replaceafill | yes, in cando | 17:52 |
| replaceafill | th1a, what should i do next? cando i18n? | 17:53 |
| replaceafill | i saw you asked for something in schooltool.email | 17:53 |
| replaceafill | a checkbox maybe? | 17:53 |
| replaceafill | to enable/disable the email service | 17:53 |
| replaceafill | withouth losing the host name | 17:53 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:53 |
| th1a | That's one thing. | 17:53 |
| replaceafill | should it use javascript? | 17:54 |
| th1a | aelkner and I discussed something else that I don't know if I actually filed as a bug. | 17:54 |
| th1a | replaceafill, I don't see why. | 17:54 |
| replaceafill | i mean, to allow editing of the other fields | 17:54 |
| th1a | It doesn't have to be slick. | 17:54 |
| replaceafill | but i guess we should depend on it (js), right? | 17:54 |
| replaceafill | ok | 17:54 |
| th1a | It is just that there is no way to turn it off. | 17:54 |
| th1a | At all. | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | got it | 17:55 |
| th1a | That we can find. | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | you have to erase the hostname :( | 17:55 |
| th1a | It should be an easy fix. | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | ah | 17:55 |
| th1a | Here is a less easy issue. | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | one more question about it | 17:55 |
| replaceafill | we will add an attribute to the email container | 17:56 |
| th1a | menesis, this might keep going for a while, so if you want to go, you're excused. ;-) | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | since all the other attributes are there | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | oh sorry, we can talk about this later | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | but i have one more question | 17:56 |
| th1a | No, we should talk about it now. | 17:56 |
| replaceafill | ok | 17:56 |
| th1a | Especially since aelkner can't interrupt us. :-D | 17:57 |
| replaceafill | i was thinking of adding a new attribute (enabled) to the email container | 17:57 |
| replaceafill | :)) | 17:57 |
| replaceafill | but if i add a new attribute i have to think about "current" users, right? | 17:57 |
| replaceafill | so, should this new attribute be "on" or "off" by default? | 17:57 |
| th1a | I imagine you'll need an evolution script. | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | should i add an evolve script that checks for hostnames | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:58 |
| th1a | I'd say ON if there is a hostname. | 17:58 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | great, that's what i thought | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | will work on that then | 17:58 |
| th1a | Here's the more complex issue. | 17:58 |
| th1a | I'd like to be able to confirm that a given email has been sent to an individual person. | 17:58 |
| replaceafill | oh yes | 17:59 |
| replaceafill | i saw that bug | 17:59 |
| replaceafill | maybe the utility should delete the email objects from the container? | 17:59 |
| replaceafill | should not | 17:59 |
| th1a | Does it send one email with multiple recipients or multiple emails to one person each? | 18:00 |
| replaceafill | it can send one email with multiple recipients | 18:00 |
| replaceafill | it sends | 18:00 |
| replaceafill | one email object with a list of recipients | 18:01 |
| replaceafill | are you thinking of splitting them? | 18:01 |
| replaceafill | one email object -> one recipient? | 18:01 |
| th1a | Well, I don't know if it is necessary to keep track of errors on emails on individual accounts. | 18:02 |
| th1a | The use case is "Douglas's mom isn't getting emails." | 18:02 |
| th1a | And we'd like to be able to say, as much as possible given how email works, "We successfully sent the email to the address Douglas's mom gave us." | 18:03 |
| th1a | I don't know if individual emails rather than multi-recipient emails makes that easier. | 18:04 |
| th1a | I suspect it might. | 18:04 |
| replaceafill | right now, this is how it's done | 18:05 |
| replaceafill | you send the email object to 3 recipients | 18:05 |
| replaceafill | if 1 of them is successful and the other 2 are not | 18:05 |
| replaceafill | the email object keeps in the queue with only the 2 failed addresses | 18:05 |
| th1a | OK. | 18:06 |
| th1a | So I'm just confusing the issue as usual. | 18:06 |
| replaceafill | no, i see your point, you want to keep "a log" of sent/unsent email | 18:06 |
| replaceafill | or just unsent? | 18:07 |
| th1a | It came up in this context. | 18:07 |
| th1a | We're adding more of an "inbox" page for interventions messages. | 18:07 |
| th1a | And ideally, when you look at your list of messages through the web, there would be a little flag on your display if the system had tried to send you the message via email but had failed. | 18:08 |
| replaceafill | ah nice :) | 18:08 |
| th1a | And there should be a similar thing when you're looking at the message via a student's intervention center. | 18:09 |
| th1a | The second one is more important. | 18:09 |
| th1a | Either way it is just a question of how much work it would take to keep track of that data in a useful way. | 18:10 |
| th1a | So that's something you can look at as well. | 18:11 |
| replaceafill | intervention sends a "intervention message" as an email to multiple recipients | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | if one of the recipients fail | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | interventions should show, i couldn't deliver the intervention message to this recipient | 18:12 |
| replaceafill | interventions should know which failed email object to look in the email queue | 18:13 |
| th1a | Does that require any overly-weird gyrations? | 18:17 |
| replaceafill | interventions definitely would have to track its emails | 18:18 |
| replaceafill | schooltool.email needs to provide that tracking service | 18:18 |
| replaceafill | maybe through some email ids | 18:19 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:19 |
| th1a | That's what we were thinking. | 18:19 |
| replaceafill | intervention creates the email object, intervention calls the email utility and pass the email object | 18:19 |
| replaceafill | the utility uses its send method and returns a message id | 18:19 |
| th1a | Why don't you give that some thought and shoot out a proposal for how it could be done and how long it might take. | 18:20 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:20 |
| th1a | It isn't a huge priority, but worth at least an evaluation of the difficulty. | 18:20 |
| replaceafill | th1a, should i continue with cando i18n? | 18:21 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 18:21 | |
| replaceafill | or the smaill bugs i have? | 18:21 |
| th1a | Well, I also decided to shift the "student enrollment state" project over to you. | 18:21 |
| replaceafill | ah | 18:21 |
| replaceafill | pre/during/post enrollment | 18:21 |
| th1a | Yes. | 18:21 |
| th1a | I think you should be able to start that before the sprint. | 18:21 |
| replaceafill | that also applies to what we discussed when we were talking about moodle, right? | 18:22 |
| replaceafill | tracking student state | 18:22 |
| th1a | It is similar, although in that case the question was more aimed at the enrollment state of students within sections. | 18:22 |
| th1a | This is enrollment in the school. | 18:22 |
| replaceafill | ah | 18:22 |
| replaceafill | understood | 18:22 |
| th1a | But if you give it some extra thought and we can magically use the same machinery in both contexts, that would be worth the extra time. | 18:23 |
| th1a | (extra up-front time). | 18:23 |
| replaceafill | :) | 18:23 |
| th1a | It is always nice when OOD, component architecture, etc. actually saves a little work. | 18:23 |
| th1a | So look at the proposal for that as well, and give me a response, either more questions or just a proposal on how to approach that. | 18:24 |
| th1a | *brief* is fine. | 18:25 |
| replaceafill | ok | 18:25 |
| th1a | In enrollment state the actual data model should be easy and the interface implications more complicated. | 18:25 |
| th1a | So perhaps you can have the basic data model working before you get here and we can work through the interface issues together. | 18:26 |
| replaceafill | great! | 18:26 |
| th1a | OK. That should keep you busy for a few days. | 18:27 |
| th1a | I'm going to book the hotel now. | 18:27 |
| replaceafill | although i'm *really* interested in cando being i18n :( | 18:27 |
| th1a | Since there are three of you we're going to get a suite and do most of the work there. | 18:27 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Yes, of course. | 18:27 |
| replaceafill | th1a, thanks | 18:28 |
| th1a | But I want to get enrollment state in the next release, so we need to get moving. | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | ah, got it | 18:28 |
| replaceafill | moving on then | 18:28 |
| th1a | We're done. | 18:29 |
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| th1a | Have a great week gentlemen! | 18:29 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 18:29 | |
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| jelkner | th1a, still here, mr. hoffman? | 20:07 |
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