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| th1a | hi aelkner, yvl, menesis. | 16:32 |
|---|---|---|
| aelkner | hello | 16:32 |
| menesis | hi | 16:33 |
| yvl | hi th1a | 16:34 |
| th1a | First some bad news - the funding from Esconidido charter school for Moodle integration work has dried up. | 16:34 |
| th1a | The entire state budget is just a disaster, so it isn't surprising. | 16:34 |
| th1a | We are shooting for a string freeze on Friday, which means we'll want to post new translation files on Monday. Can you do that menesis? | 16:36 |
| yvl | th1a, I managed to get sick | 16:37 |
| menesis | I am not sure what is the state of trunk or 2009.04 branches currently | 16:37 |
| menesis | anything merged since August?.. | 16:37 |
| th1a | Well, we'll need to sort that out. | 16:37 |
| yvl | so I don't know how much work I will get done this week | 16:37 |
| menesis | there are problems with translations | 16:38 |
| menesis | automatic launchpad import and export does not work | 16:38 |
| menesis | for our setup | 16:38 |
| th1a | Do we need to make some changes? | 16:38 |
| menesis | that works only if translation files are in toplevel "po" directory | 16:38 |
| menesis | yes but I couldn't find examples how to do that using zope.18n and similar tools | 16:39 |
| th1a | Because zope.i18n put the files somewhere else? | 16:40 |
| menesis | so although I have set up schooltool.gradebook for translation, the files are still not imported and automatic export will not work either. I can handle the export manually but import needs review from someone | 16:40 |
| th1a | OK... is automatic import/export a new feature on LP? | 16:41 |
| menesis | yes our .po files are in src/schooltool.../locales/*/LC_MESSAGES/*.po | 16:41 |
| menesis | it is a new feature since August | 16:41 |
| menesis | and I hoped that will help me with translations | 16:41 |
| th1a | I guess this isn't something we can fix with an alias? | 16:41 |
| th1a | symbolic link? | 16:42 |
| menesis | maybe | 16:42 |
| menesis | I was looking at that shortly but have to try moving files around yet | 16:43 |
| th1a | does import need review from someone at LP? | 16:43 |
| menesis | anyway, I did update translations before and I can do that again, it just takes more manual work from me and some help from rosetta coordinators | 16:44 |
| menesis | yes | 16:44 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:44 |
| th1a | Do you think we can get updated templates up next monday? | 16:46 |
| menesis | yes | 16:47 |
| aelkner | Keep in mind that I will be submitting merge requests this upcoming weekend | 16:47 |
| aelkner | and there will be a whole bunch of strings that get merged into trunk | 16:47 |
| aelkner | will need to get merged... | 16:48 |
| menesis | the problem here is to collect and merge all the branches | 16:48 |
| menesis | aelkner: schooltool or gradebook? | 16:48 |
| aelkner | gradebook | 16:48 |
| menesis | ok | 16:48 |
| menesis | aelkner: did you see that I have set up lp:schooltool.gradebook project? | 16:48 |
| menesis | you can now branch from there | 16:48 |
| th1a | This is one reason submitting small patches as you go is a good idea. | 16:48 |
| menesis | I will merge there, it will be no problem, although launchpad does not allow to register merge to that branch | 16:49 |
| aelkner | what will i need to do then? | 16:49 |
| menesis | aelkner: same as before, you can only propose merge to lp:~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool.gradebook | 16:51 |
| menesis | but branch lp:schooltool.gradebook next time | 16:51 |
| aelkner | ok | 16:51 |
| menesis | I am sorry I did not handle this transition well, I'm still to post a message explaining new locations :( | 16:51 |
| th1a | Well, it is complicated. | 16:53 |
| th1a | We just need to have something in the end that works for translators. | 16:53 |
| th1a | I'm happy with the overall switch to having the SchoolTool Project page on LP> | 16:53 |
| th1a | LP. | 16:53 |
| th1a | I think that makes things more clear for users. | 16:54 |
| th1a | (and us) | 16:54 |
| th1a | Any other issues, menesis? | 16:55 |
| menesis | the end result is good, but I handled the split badly | 16:55 |
| menesis | and it's still only schooltool.gradebook set up | 16:55 |
| menesis | I had a cold last week, only came to work a few hours ago today | 16:56 |
| th1a | You guys need to put out some vitamin C pills at POV or something. | 16:56 |
| menesis | yeah... | 16:57 |
| menesis | don't think I have other issues. some 10 todo items.. | 16:58 |
| th1a | yvl: OK, so where are you at this point, development-wise? | 16:58 |
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| th1a | yvl: OK, so where are you at this point, development-wise? | 16:59 |
| yvl | split the contacts management page to "view" and "manage contacts" | 17:00 |
| yvl | the way we discussed last Monday | 17:00 |
| yvl | I was planing to merge it, but got ill | 17:00 |
| yvl | and security looks near to an end | 17:01 |
| th1a | Those are the two things on your plate with string implications. | 17:02 |
| th1a | RIght? | 17:02 |
| yvl | I wish it would be so :| | 17:02 |
| yvl | updating navbar will definitely change/introduce at least several strings | 17:02 |
| yvl | I expect few strings from the big calendar bug also | 17:03 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:03 |
| th1a | Well, we'll just do the best we can. | 17:03 |
| th1a | And probably miss a few strings. | 17:03 |
| th1a | Get them in 1.2.1 | 17:04 |
| yvl | right | 17:04 |
| th1a | OK. Get well and try to tie up the security part. | 17:05 |
| th1a | aelkner: I think SLA's user ID problem will have to wait. | 17:05 |
| yvl | thanks th1a | 17:05 |
| aelkner | th1a: yeah, i figured it could | 17:05 |
| th1a | (SLA has decided they need to change some of last year's user id's) | 17:05 |
| th1a | Unfortunately, in practice this is probably not an uncommon request. ;-( | 17:06 |
| aelkner | yes, we need a strategy for that when we have the chance | 17:06 |
| th1a | ... I dunno ... that might have to wait a long time. | 17:07 |
| aelkner | ... yeah ... maybe | 17:07 |
| th1a | Anyhow, how's everything else coming? | 17:09 |
| aelkner | so i got the attendance data to be part of the report card grid | 17:09 |
| aelkner | i also started work on the four reports | 17:10 |
| aelkner | there's something i realized in the process | 17:10 |
| aelkner | schooltool.gradebook is now dependent on schooltool.lyceum.journal | 17:10 |
| aelkner | there's no getting around that | 17:10 |
| th1a | Why not? | 17:11 |
| aelkner | because the reports in schooltool.gradebook also look for data in schooltool.lyceumj.ournal | 17:11 |
| aelkner | i would call that a dependency | 17:12 |
| th1a | Aren't they doing an adapter lookup or whatever? | 17:12 |
| aelkner | the adapter that they lookup resides in schooltool.lyceum.journal | 17:13 |
| aelkner | so, again, the dependency | 17:13 |
| th1a | Hm. | 17:13 |
| th1a | Can't they use the same adapter (or whatever) that the activities in the gradebook use? | 17:13 |
| th1a | Same thingamajig? | 17:14 |
| aelkner | the adpater for getting journal data has nothing to do with gradebook activity adapters | 17:14 |
| aelkner | there's no relationship | 17:14 |
| aelkner | i'm not sure what you mean otherwise | 17:15 |
| yvl | umm, which adapter do you need, aelkner? | 17:15 |
| aelkner | ISectionJournalData(section) | 17:15 |
| yvl | maybe you can simply duplicate code for now | 17:15 |
| aelkner | that would not be n option | 17:16 |
| aelkner | and for god sakes, why? | 17:16 |
| th1a | Let me back up. | 17:16 |
| th1a | How does the report find gradebook activities? | 17:17 |
| aelkner | IActivities(section) | 17:17 |
| th1a | So, could we change the journal to return attendance and tardies as activities? | 17:17 |
| th1a | (not necessarily in the next two weeks) | 17:18 |
| aelkner | how would changing the journal code and relying on such a change REMOVE the dependency | 17:18 |
| aelkner | instead | 17:19 |
| th1a | I'd rather have the journal be dependent on the basic requirements/activities structure than the gradebook be dependent on the journal. | 17:19 |
| aelkner | could i make the case for the dependency | 17:19 |
| yvl | th1a, plug-in glue code problem is somewhere on my board. | 17:20 |
| yvl | for now, we can do several simple solutions, if we don't want to have "soft" dependency between plugins | 17:20 |
| th1a | aelkner: Go ahead. | 17:21 |
| aelkner | do we really need to have a gradebook without having attendance? | 17:21 |
| aelkner | why not think of them together for now on? | 17:21 |
| aelkner | god knows we're gong to have more and more reports that combine the data | 17:22 |
| aelkner | what's the harm in considering grading and attendance together from the user point of view | 17:22 |
| aelkner | if you have one, you have the other | 17:22 |
| th1a | Well... | 17:22 |
| th1a | It is a question of time and priorities. | 17:23 |
| th1a | I'm not saying, if we can't keep them independent, shut down the operation until we can. | 17:23 |
| th1a | I'm just trying to work out the trade-offs. | 17:24 |
| th1a | Generally speaking, keeping dependencies down if possible is good. | 17:24 |
| th1a | So it is always worth discussing. | 17:24 |
| aelkner | i understand that, but i think in this case it would require many days and major kludges to keep them independent | 17:25 |
| th1a | It would at least be nice for the report card to recover gracefully if the journal is not there. | 17:25 |
| aelkner | again major kludges | 17:25 |
| ignas | my position back then was - separation on the data level, integration in the UI/view level, because both attendance AND grading are very specific | 17:25 |
| th1a | It may require many days, but it shouldn't require kludges, just proper design (to do it right). | 17:25 |
| aelkner | everywhere i import i wold need try: except: | 17:26 |
| aelkner | then the except clauses would have to set up a kludge to have the code work anyway | 17:26 |
| aelkner | ugh | 17:26 |
| aelkner | that would be a bad idea | 17:26 |
| ignas | as in - you need more than 1 gradebook, and probably more than 1 way of doing attendance, when you try combining - it becomes gradebooks x attendance | 17:26 |
| th1a | OK, let me put it this way then. | 17:27 |
| th1a | I'm not saying I want this *now*, | 17:27 |
| th1a | but in general, we would like to have a system where you had some core reports, which might all live in gradebook, or perhaps on their own, | 17:28 |
| th1a | and whenever new components were added to a SchoolTool instance, they could announce that they had some data you might want to include in a report. | 17:29 |
| th1a | And then your main report hub would automatically include them in things you might add to one of your reports. | 17:29 |
| th1a | Does that make any sense? | 17:29 |
| ignas | yes | 17:29 |
| ignas | yvl: as for soft dependencies, i think you still need "virtual classes" kind of thing, like a "virtual attendance module", so yeah, it's an "interesting problem", but the only way to have "reports" not depending on a specific gradebook or journal implementation on python/Zope level | 17:29 |
| ignas | th1a: just like sections announce that they want to be seen in the "person overvew" page | 17:30 |
| ignas | it is doable, but you *must* clearly define the available plug-in points | 17:30 |
| aelkner | all of this sounds like nice theory for application design, but with one week left before the freeze... | 17:31 |
| th1a | Where we are is: we decided to write a few reports before doing a top down design of "Reporting." | 17:31 |
| aelkner | it ain't gonna get done | 17:31 |
| th1a | I'm not asking you to do it right now. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | i understand, but i need the dependency now | 17:31 |
| aelkner | i need to be able to import schooltool.lyceum.journal from within schooltool.gradebook | 17:32 |
| ignas | at the moment there is 1 implementation of journal, and it includes both the "interfaces" and "implementation" the only way to have plugability based on availability of the journal is to depend on lyceum.journal | 17:32 |
| aelkner | and not have to handle the package not being there | 17:32 |
| ignas | at least on python level | 17:32 |
| th1a | What really got this discussion rolling, aelkner, was when you said "there is no getting around that." | 17:32 |
| th1a | There are ways of getting around it -- just not on our current schedule. | 17:32 |
| aelkner | yes, that's my assersion | 17:32 |
| aelkner | ok, fine | 17:33 |
| aelkner | but i needed us to agree that we are going to make schooltool.gradebook dependent on the journal | 17:33 |
| aelkner | so that my reports will work | 17:34 |
| ignas | i'd guess you can't do it any other way at the moment | 17:34 |
| th1a | Right, we're distributing this all together anyhow, and I'd rather have fracking reports. | 17:34 |
| aelkner | ok, so i'll proceed | 17:35 |
| th1a | But in the longer run, I'd like to do some refactoring around reports. | 17:35 |
| th1a | Go ahead. ;-) | 17:35 |
| aelkner | so i had to add an AppInit adatper to the journal | 17:35 |
| aelkner | ignas: you never added one to create the journal data container on app startup | 17:36 |
| aelkner | but we need that | 17:36 |
| aelkner | it's not worth having an evolution script | 17:36 |
| aelkner | when all you need to do at app startup is check for the presence of the folder | 17:37 |
| ignas | aelkner: yeah, might be that journal was not updated to be a plugin that is enabled whenever you want | 17:37 |
| aelkner | yeah, so i took care of that | 17:37 |
| * yvl seconds, it wasn't | 17:37 | |
| ignas | aelkner: hmm, hope so, can't be sure now, most probably all the data is write on read | 17:37 |
| aelkner | it wasn't | 17:37 |
| ignas | aelkner: though I would look for subscribers in journal code | 17:38 |
| aelkner | it crashed on write :) | 17:38 |
| aelkner | ISectionJournalData(section) crashed | 17:38 |
| ignas | to see if there was any code that would have been executed if journal was present since t0 | 17:38 |
| aelkner | since t0? | 17:40 |
| aelkner | what does that mean? | 17:40 |
| ignas | imagine journal having a subscriber that is "on group added" | 17:40 |
| ignas | that adds a small thingajamajig to a group | 17:40 |
| ignas | if journal was present since the beginning of the application | 17:41 |
| ignas | every group will have the subscriber executed for it | 17:41 |
| ignas | if not - well you understand | 17:41 |
| aelkner | i get that | 17:41 |
| ignas | so just look for all subscribers in lyceum.journal and see if any of them might have been supposed to have done something | 17:41 |
| ignas | (my english is not making sense probably) | 17:42 |
| aelkner | well, the journal isn't that complex yet | 17:42 |
| aelkner | there aren't any subscrivers | 17:42 |
| ignas | cool | 17:42 |
| aelkner | just the adapter to get to the section journal data | 17:43 |
| aelkner | and the section journal adapter which is just a proxy for the section journal data | 17:43 |
| aelkner | like the schooltool.gradebook Gradebook class is a proxy | 17:43 |
| aelkner | th1a: so i'm going to assume that you would agree the following for schedule purposes: | 17:44 |
| aelkner | schooltool.gradebook depends on schooltool.lyceum.journal | 17:44 |
| aelkner | all reports and report requests will live in schooltool.gradebook for now | 17:45 |
| aelkner | even if they involve journal data | 17:45 |
| th1a | That's fine. | 17:45 |
| aelkner | these assumptions are essential for getting the reports you want by the freeze | 17:45 |
| aelkner | cool | 17:45 |
| aelkner | as for the reports | 17:46 |
| aelkner | i'm sure i'll have them done by week;s end | 17:46 |
| th1a | I'm just saying, it is not the official policy that gradebook and journal are dependent on each other therefore tie them together as many ways as possible. | 17:46 |
| aelkner | there will still be a few unfinished bugs that were slated for pre-freeze | 17:47 |
| aelkner | unless we could extend the freeze by say half a week | 17:47 |
| th1a | Which ones? | 17:48 |
| aelkner | do you still have the url that gets you my bugs? | 17:48 |
| aelkner | it would be the top three | 17:48 |
| aelkner | all marked High | 17:48 |
| aelkner | the last four are the reports | 17:48 |
| aelkner | two of the non-reports are intervention bugs | 17:49 |
| aelkner | one is the auto-create of the summary sheets | 17:49 |
| th1a | Oh, the email parts? | 17:49 |
| aelkner | yes | 17:49 |
| th1a | Well, that's understandable. | 17:49 |
| th1a | Plus, we don't know if we'll even have it in the release. | 17:50 |
| th1a | (mail) | 17:50 |
| th1a | I'll email replaceafill for an estimate. | 17:50 |
| aelkner | and the summary sheets? | 17:50 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:51 |
| aelkner | i might be able to get at least the strings in for that view by weeks' end | 17:51 |
| th1a | I mean, I'd rather not hold up the string freeze at this point. | 17:51 |
| aelkner | how about i shoot for that? | 17:51 |
| th1a | Fine with me. | 17:51 |
| aelkner | strings even if the view doesn't work :) | 17:51 |
| aelkner | then i could get it to work after the freeze | 17:52 |
| th1a | Don't make it crash... | 17:52 |
| aelkner | i just need to add the section to the preferences view | 17:52 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 17:52 |
| aelkner | yes, no crashes | 17:52 |
| aelkner | just no action | 17:53 |
| aelkner | that's all i got | 17:53 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:53 |
| th1a | I'm switching into documentation mode this week. | 17:53 |
| th1a | Have a great week, gentlemen! | 17:54 |
| yvl | thanks th1a | 17:54 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:54 | |
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| aelkner | you, too | 17:54 |
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| jelkner | aelkner: you here, bro? | 19:43 |
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