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| replaceafill | yvl, ping | 08:10 |
|---|---|---|
| yvl | pong, replaceafill | 08:13 |
| replaceafill | hey yvl, just a question, if you have an object that is not annotatable, is there any way to know if it was created before or after another non annotatable object? | 08:14 |
| replaceafill | does ikeyreference could help? | 08:14 |
| * replaceafill should check his grammar! | 08:15 | |
| yvl | well, you can obtain IKeyReference for persistent objects | 08:18 |
| yvl | so yes | 08:18 |
| yvl | but why do you need it? | 08:19 |
| replaceafill | i have two cando competency objects, and i need to know which one was created first | 08:19 |
| replaceafill | if i order them by ikeyreference i see the right results | 08:19 |
| replaceafill | im just not sure about how reliable that method is | 08:20 |
| yvl | umm, object's _p_oid is unique within the database | 08:21 |
| yvl | I just don't remember if newer objects *always* have greater _p_oid | 08:22 |
| replaceafill | :( | 08:22 |
| yvl | well, it should be reliable enough | 08:27 |
| yvl | especially if you want to do a single evolution, and not use it in code that runs for 10 years | 08:27 |
| replaceafill | :D | 08:27 |
| replaceafill | or code that will run only once :) | 08:27 |
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| Lumiere | wb lt | 16:35 |
| yvl | hi guys | 16:36 |
| yvl | sorry, having internet problems... | 16:36 |
| th1a | Hi yvl, aelkner, Lumiere, replaceafill, moquist. | 16:37 |
| aelkner | morning all | 16:37 |
| replaceafill | good morning | 16:37 |
| th1a | yvl: Would you like to start us off? | 16:37 |
| th1a | yvl: ping? | 16:40 |
| th1a | Well, aelkner, perhaps you should go first. | 16:40 |
| aelkner | ok | 16:40 |
| aelkner | so i took care of the lower hanging fruit last week | 16:41 |
| aelkner | unfortunately, one of the bugs took me a day longer than estimated | 16:41 |
| yvl | th1a, one moment, sorry | 16:41 |
| yvl | aelkner, plesae go on | 16:41 |
| aelkner | adding ranged values score system to report activities | 16:41 |
| aelkner | the final solution was a lot simpler than the original widget that we got rid of | 16:42 |
| aelkner | but i spent a lot of time wresting with the logic before i got it right | 16:43 |
| aelkner | i think i came up with a simpler interface for the user as well | 16:43 |
| aelkner | instead of a check box for setting up a ranged system | 16:43 |
| aelkner | i eventually settled on adding a choice to the score systems called '-- Use range below --' | 16:44 |
| aelkner | where the user fills in minimun and maximum | 16:44 |
| th1a | Sounds good. | 16:45 |
| aelkner | i think it's the most elegant solution | 16:45 |
| th1a | You can also send me screenshots of these things as you go. | 16:45 |
| aelkner | i got the evolution script for adding the abbreviations column working | 16:45 |
| aelkner | i put the column right next to the score column | 16:46 |
| aelkner | so now the columns are score, abbreviation, points, percent | 16:46 |
| aelkner | the abbr column will almost always be empty | 16:46 |
| aelkner | was i right to make it column 2? | 16:47 |
| th1a | That makes sense. | 16:47 |
| th1a | Better than just sticking it on the end. | 16:47 |
| aelkner | that's what i figured | 16:47 |
| aelkner | oh, and i added a paragraph to the help | 16:47 |
| aelkner | right before the last one | 16:48 |
| aelkner | Enter an abbreviation for a score only if the score has more than four characters and you wish to create an alternative abbreviation for the gradebook. | 16:48 |
| aelkner | does that sound right to you? | 16:48 |
| th1a | Sounds fine. | 16:48 |
| aelkner | i'll work on multi worksheet interaction this week | 16:49 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:49 |
| th1a | Sounds good. | 16:50 |
| aelkner | that's all i got | 16:50 |
| * yvl is back | 16:50 | |
| th1a | Go ahead yvl. | 16:50 |
| yvl | I spent the whole time on the self contacts, which were harder to implement than it seemed | 16:50 |
| * yvl hates to be bringer of bad news | 16:51 | |
| yvl | so, currently I have an implementation without tests and catalog reindexing | 16:51 |
| yvl | contacts became indexed, so they should work as fast as persons | 16:52 |
| yvl | I somewhat expect a school to have a lot of contacts | 16:52 |
| th1a | It took longer because you added indexing, then? | 16:52 |
| yvl | yes | 16:52 |
| yvl | but it was one of two evils | 16:52 |
| yvl | either I keep "self" contacts in the contact container | 16:53 |
| yvl | and keep data in sync when adding/removing and more importantly - modifying users | 16:53 |
| * th1a was very impressed with the responsiveness of CanDo with thousands of students enrolled, btw. | 16:53 | |
| yvl | or I keep the "self" contacts in an annotation | 16:53 |
| yvl | and deal with the views that must gather contacts from multiple sources | 16:54 |
| yvl | (contact container and persons) | 16:54 |
| yvl | the result is: | 16:54 |
| th1a | Ah, I see. | 16:54 |
| yvl | we have "self" contacts magically in the manage->contacts | 16:54 |
| yvl | and we can even assign those contacts to the existing users | 16:55 |
| yvl | and they supposed to be fast | 16:55 |
| yvl | I think it's fun to be able to assign an older brother as a contact :) | 16:55 |
| yvl | and for Alan: | 16:56 |
| yvl | if you want to obtain a "self" contact | 16:56 |
| yvl | you just adapt IContact(person) | 16:56 |
| yvl | the code needs cleanup badly, so I'll release it on Wednesday | 16:57 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:57 |
| yvl | there were other interesting things | 16:57 |
| th1a | And the security work still needs to be finished up? | 16:57 |
| yvl | especially with removeSecurityProxy to obtain annotations | 16:57 |
| yvl | yes, th1a, I didn't spend any time on it :| | 16:57 |
| th1a | OK, I'd like to see that put behind us. | 16:58 |
| * yvl too | 16:58 | |
| yvl | ok, so that's about it | 16:59 |
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| th1a | Thanks, yvl. | 16:59 |
| yvl | other than several things I put on my board for the next release :) | 16:59 |
| th1a | menesis: Are you getting the error emails from schooltool.org? | 16:59 |
| menesis | late hello | 17:00 |
| th1a | menesis: Hi. ;-) | 17:00 |
| menesis | th1a: no.. | 17:00 |
| th1a | Ah... I forwarded one to you. | 17:00 |
| th1a | I've been getting piles of them --- doesn't seem like anything important. | 17:00 |
| menesis | one, yes. don't know where it is coming from | 17:00 |
| menesis | should look more | 17:01 |
| th1a | If nothing else, it is annoying my inbox. | 17:01 |
| th1a | menesis: Did you try deploying Douglas's translation of schooltool.org? | 17:04 |
| menesis | th1a: no, haven't tried yet. | 17:05 |
| menesis | I have that task starred in my inbox and more, but made very little progress on them last week :( | 17:05 |
| th1a | OK. Just checking. | 17:05 |
| th1a | When you're on the other side of the world sometimes people have finished things without telling you, sometimes, they've just for gotten, sometimes they just haven't had time yet... | 17:06 |
| th1a | It isn't especially pressing in this case. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Anything else to add menesis? | 17:07 |
| menesis | don't think so | 17:07 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 17:08 |
| th1a | replaceafill? | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | while we wait for replaceafill, cando is now part of SchoolTool Project | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | and that's about it | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | in CanDo related work, we've been fixing an importing issue with duplicated competencies | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | it's been complicated | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | on SchoolTool related work, i started the mail functionality | 17:09 |
| replaceafill | first, GUI stuff in the application preferences screen | 17:10 |
| replaceafill | put basic server info (hostname, port, etc) | 17:10 |
| replaceafill | my main concern in this task is: i dont want to block the server | 17:11 |
| replaceafill | zope.sendmail uses a thread processor for this | 17:12 |
| th1a | Ah yes... threads. | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | :( | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | so i've been figuring that out | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | ah and yesterday | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | Chris Alfano finally tested the XMLRPC functionality | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | he asked for group management | 17:12 |
| replaceafill | so i add that | 17:13 |
| th1a | I've been following the emails. | 17:13 |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:13 |
| th1a | Seems productive. | 17:13 |
| th1a | So what's going on with the CanDo problem? | 17:13 |
| replaceafill | i hope i'll have a functional mail demo for you in my testing instance this week | 17:14 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Great. | 17:14 |
| replaceafill | well, the importer messed things up | 17:14 |
| replaceafill | and basically we're fighting agains cando not being able to handle different competencies in different years | 17:15 |
| replaceafill | i hope we can finish it this week | 17:15 |
| replaceafill | i guess that's it, thanks :) | 17:15 |
| th1a | Well, can you be more specific? | 17:15 |
| th1a | I'm paying for this after all. | 17:16 |
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| replaceafill | ah ok, the latest verso export has new competency groups | 17:16 |
| replaceafill | and some competencies have been moved from one group to another in the same course | 17:17 |
| replaceafill | the xml importer wasn't ready for that | 17:17 |
| replaceafill | and duplicated the competency within the same group | 17:17 |
| replaceafill | sorry, within the same course | 17:18 |
| replaceafill | so, now when you associate the whole course competencies with a schooltool course | 17:18 |
| replaceafill | you see duplicate competencies in the cando gradebooks | 17:18 |
| replaceafill | the solution is to make the xml importer to ignore competency groups when is processing the feeded xml | 17:19 |
| * replaceafill doesn't know if he's been clear :( | 17:19 | |
| th1a | I understand. | 17:20 |
| th1a | So how does this work in the already deployed instances? | 17:20 |
| replaceafill | dwelsh says most of them even don't see the problem because they have new fresh competencies | 17:20 |
| * Lumiere still wishes we had put competencies in school years :) | 17:21 | |
| replaceafill | :) | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | th1a: for a few classes when you import the list of competencies you get duplicates | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | th1a: it's largely a data entry issue | 17:21 |
| Lumiere | in the state system someone deleted and recreated a competency instead of editing or moving it | 17:22 |
| th1a | So are you mostly just fixing the importer? | 17:22 |
| replaceafill | with new global ids | 17:22 |
| Lumiere | when that happens the state loses its record of history and their internal rcs id changes | 17:22 |
| replaceafill | and helping dwelsh to clean the data | 17:22 |
| Lumiere | replaceafill: are we adding the deprecation field? | 17:23 |
| th1a | What do you have to do to clean the data? | 17:23 |
| replaceafill | 1) Within a course, find the pairs of competencies that have the exact same description. | 17:23 |
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| replaceafill | 2) Look up both competency id’s in a 2009 competency database, to determine which one came from 2009; the 2008 id will not be in the 2009 datase | 17:23 |
| replaceafill | 3) Then, do the following two steps: | 17:24 |
| replaceafill | a. Update the 2008 competency by copying the number; the opt/req flag; and the SOL correlation from the 2009 competency (the description will be the same, we don't need to update that; the id is different and we don't WANT to update that) | 17:24 |
| replaceafill | b. Delete the 2009 id and competency from the updated 2009 database (this is the unwanted duplicate with the incorrect id. | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | uh | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | replaceafill: that's not a good solution <_< | 17:24 |
| Lumiere | what happens in 2010? | 17:25 |
| replaceafill | i know | 17:25 |
| Lumiere | (the 2009 competency is brought back in and we repeat the same problem) | 17:25 |
| replaceafill | yes | 17:26 |
| replaceafill | as Lumiere said the optimal solution is to move competencies inside schoolyears | 17:26 |
| replaceafill | but that's a bigger task | 17:27 |
| th1a | Right now it should just be done in the fastest, simplest possible way. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | and that introduces design into Cando that's purely a workaround for poor verso design | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: I totally disagree | 17:28 |
| aelkner | that can't be a good idea | 17:28 |
| Lumiere | th1a: right now what replaceafill is doing is the fastest simplest fix for now | 17:28 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:28 |
| th1a | This is not an unusual problem. | 17:29 |
| Lumiere | 1) you'll never remove user error entirely from a system | 17:29 |
| Lumiere | so we need to be prepared to cover it when it occurs | 17:29 |
| Lumiere | 2) the state needs us to provide the list of competencies for a school year, the most obvious thing is to have the competency associate with that object | 17:30 |
| th1a | I think that was my idea from the beginning. ;-) | 17:31 |
| th1a | Anyhow... | 17:31 |
| th1a | Oh, I got a very interesting inquiry over the weekend from Cambodia. | 17:32 |
| th1a | So I'm working on a response to that right now. | 17:33 |
| th1a | Have a great week, gentlemen! | 17:33 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:33 | |
| aelkner | you too | 17:33 |
| yvl | a great week for you all! | 17:33 |
| replaceafill | thanks you too | 17:33 |
| replaceafill | Lumiere, you told me to get rid of the start-cando.py script, right? | 17:34 |
| Lumiere | replaceafill: yea | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | how about the add-plugin.py script? | 17:44 |
| Lumiere | leave that | 17:44 |
| Lumiere | it may be used yet | 17:44 |
| replaceafill | ah ok, do you have access to: http://cando.schooltool.org/installation/installation | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | ? | 17:45 |
| replaceafill | we should take the start-cando part out | 17:45 |
| Lumiere | uh | 17:46 |
| Lumiere | that entire section should die | 17:47 |
| Lumiere | cando.schooltool.org should go to the book or something | 17:47 |
| Lumiere | we now install using the st-book | 17:47 |
| th1a | I don't know why that site still works at all. | 17:49 |
| th1a | I guess we haven't actually killed Plone yet. | 17:49 |
| menesis | plone is still running as before | 17:50 |
| th1a | menesis: There is no rush to pull the plug. | 17:50 |
| th1a | Particularly before we resolve this particular issue. | 17:51 |
| menesis | true | 17:51 |
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| th1a | Lumiere: I'd say we should go with pointing to the CTE site and the CanDo LP page. | 17:51 |
| Lumiere | works for me | 18:04 |
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| th1a | Well, search works in the SchoolTool book again, so that's something. | 21:00 |
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