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| th1a | hi dwelsh, yvl, aelkner, moquist. | 16:30 |
|---|---|---|
| th1a | & Lumiere. | 16:30 |
| aelkner | morning | 16:31 |
| yvl | hi th1a | 16:31 |
| * yvl realises being in out-of-coffe situation. Be right back. | 16:32 | |
| Lumiere | morning all | 16:33 |
| th1a | Good morning. | 16:34 |
| th1a | Lumiere & dwelsh: Want to start with a quick CanDo update? | 16:34 |
| * yvl back | 16:35 | |
| Lumiere | I am out a bit | 16:35 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:36 |
| th1a | yvl is back from vacation now too? | 16:36 |
| yvl | yes | 16:36 |
| th1a | And menesis? | 16:36 |
| yvl | he'll be back tomorrow | 16:36 |
| yvl | and available on Tue-Thu | 16:37 |
| yvl | this week | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | I'm now here... Jerry was in my office. | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | CanDo update? | 16:37 |
| th1a | Sure. | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | CanDo09 released this past Friday around noon. | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | Major changes between CanDo08 and CanDo09: | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | 1) Setup is much more automated | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | with more imports of data, and smarter importers | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | in general, we avoided the all-in-one, multi-tabbed spreadsheet | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | for individual importers | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | Now CanDo09 imports and updates: | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | The global competency database (in a very clever way) | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | Students | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | Courses | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | Sections and Enrollment | 16:39 |
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| dwelsh | CTE Resource begins training on CanDo09 this week | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | Five counties in Arlington besides Arlington are running CanDo09 | 16:40 |
| dwelsh | Total teachers: 235 | 16:40 |
| dwelsh | Total schools: 28 | 16:40 |
| dwelsh | Total students: 23,547 | 16:40 |
| dwelsh | Arlington adds another 7 schools, 75 teachers, at least 5,000 students | 16:41 |
| dwelsh | In addition, another 30 teachers across the state, at least, will load and run CanDo09 on their own | 16:41 |
| dwelsh | In sort of rogue, ad-hoc setups | 16:41 |
| dwelsh | Douglas did an amazing job with coding, coming off of his sick-bed to do it | 16:42 |
| dwelsh | Jason provided great help and support, along with SchoolTool and POV | 16:42 |
| dwelsh | I expect this to be the launchpad this year to statewide CanDo release in 2010-2011 | 16:42 |
| dwelsh | So the CanDo news is quite exciting | 16:42 |
| th1a | Excellent. | 16:42 |
| dwelsh | Issues I will track as we move forward: | 16:43 |
| th1a | I'm looking forward to the documentation of the import system. | 16:43 |
| dwelsh | 1) Is the final CanDo package done out of POV (we requested the third and final package Friday midday) | 16:43 |
| dwelsh | 2) I'm sure we will get bug reports and will need minor fixes, features, etc. in Sept & Oct. | 16:43 |
| Lumiere | on 1) Check Launchpad PPA for it | 16:44 |
| dwelsh | Yes, CTE Resource will be doing important documentation and training on CanDo09 | 16:44 |
| th1a | Is that going to take menesis returning on Tuesday? | 16:44 |
| dwelsh | This will greatly expand anything Arlington and SchoolTool can provide | 16:44 |
| dwelsh | The CTE Resource folks are very capable and very committed to CanDo | 16:44 |
| dwelsh | That's my report. | 16:44 |
| dwelsh | Questions, problems, concerns? | 16:44 |
| Lumiere | th1a: 1 will, yes | 16:44 |
| th1a | Sounds good to me. | 16:45 |
| dwelsh | Again, many thanks to Jason, SchoolTool, Douglas and POV | 16:45 |
| dwelsh | Also Alan Elkner... always there willing to help | 16:45 |
| th1a | Thank you dwelsh. | 16:46 |
| th1a | OK, yvl. Where are you picking things up now? | 16:46 |
| yvl | on security policy explanations | 16:47 |
| yvl | I'm still not satisfied with the mechanism I have now | 16:48 |
| yvl | too much pain to maintain | 16:48 |
| yvl | I'll look at several promising ends for one more day | 16:48 |
| yvl | and that's it | 16:48 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:48 |
| yvl | If I can't come up with anything better - the thing I have now will have to do :| | 16:49 |
| yvl | well, thats about it. | 16:49 |
| th1a | I'm sure it is an improvement over what we've got now. | 16:49 |
| th1a | What's next after that? | 16:50 |
| yvl | from users perspective - yes, definitely | 16:50 |
| yvl | actually, I didn't think about it yet | 16:50 |
| th1a | I'd say action buttons is the last major project before the October release. | 16:50 |
| th1a | (for yvl) | 16:50 |
| yvl | last, as in "the final one before release"? | 16:51 |
| yvl | or as in "with the least priority"? | 16:51 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:51 |
| yvl | ok, got it. | 16:51 |
| th1a | Final one before release. | 16:52 |
| th1a | Then bugs. | 16:53 |
| th1a | aelkner and I had a good meeting at SLA on Friday. | 16:53 |
| th1a | Got some excellent feedback from Chris Lehmann. | 16:54 |
| th1a | Overall the report sheet system made sense to him, and he was impressed by the amount of improvements in the gradebook. | 16:54 |
| yvl | Good to hear! | 16:56 |
| th1a | aelkner: Do you want to lead us through the list of things to discuss today that we came up with? | 16:56 |
| aelkner | did my email to the new list get through? | 16:56 |
| aelkner | there were three things we needed to discuss today: | 16:57 |
| aelkner | 1) we need consistent css for tabs across schooltool | 16:57 |
| yvl | yes it did, aelkner | 16:57 |
| aelkner | tom likes what yvl did for the sections intervention view | 16:58 |
| aelkner | the tabs look like real folder tabs | 16:58 |
| th1a | So perhaps we can polish that a bit and make all the tabs look like that. | 16:58 |
| aelkner | what needs to be polished? | 16:58 |
| th1a | Just a few lines, more at the sides of the tabs. | 16:59 |
| th1a | The edges of the rest of the "folder." | 16:59 |
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| th1a | Anyhow, any known issues with that idea? | 17:00 |
| yvl | what other schooltool tabs do you have in mind? | 17:00 |
| th1a | Gradebook, journal. | 17:00 |
| aelkner | does the calendar have tabs? | 17:00 |
| th1a | No. | 17:01 |
| aelkner | next issue? | 17:01 |
| yvl | for some reason, I don't remember tabs in journal | 17:01 |
| aelkner | it has them | 17:02 |
| yvl | ok | 17:02 |
| yvl | next issue then | 17:02 |
| th1a | Next! | 17:02 |
| aelkner | 2) using the extra-info slot of the z3c formlib macro for nexturl hidden variable | 17:02 |
| th1a | Ah yes... where was this again? | 17:03 |
| aelkner | when the user goes from the section intervention view to a report sheet activity edit | 17:03 |
| aelkner | the apply button navigates them back to the gradebook | 17:03 |
| aelkner | NOT the section interventions view | 17:03 |
| aelkner | the only way to fix that would be to have a nexturl hidden field | 17:04 |
| aelkner | and have the section intervention view call the edit form with ?nexturl='section interventions view' | 17:04 |
| th1a | objections? | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | would cando's tabs need to be moved to the new css too (if so, document so we can do that in the future) | 17:04 |
| th1a | suggestions? | 17:04 |
| aelkner | unless anyone has a better idea | 17:04 |
| th1a | Lumiere: I can include CanDo in the tab bug. | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | thanks | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | if you add a nexturl field | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | it needs to be parsed against a list of valid entries | 17:05 |
| yvl | for an editform nexturl seems fine | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | or secured in some way (nexturl is a standard method of attack) | 17:05 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: good point | 17:06 |
| aelkner | we could use a key rather than an actual view url as the next url | 17:06 |
| aelkner | so the key, say "?nexturl=intervention" would result in going to the right place | 17:07 |
| aelkner | no nexturl setting results in going back to the gradebook | 17:07 |
| aelkner | how does that sond? | 17:07 |
| Lumiere | much better | 17:07 |
| Lumiere | just make it no/default -> gradebook | 17:08 |
| aelkner | yvl? | 17:08 |
| yvl | hmm | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | so ../../../../../../../../../etc/passwd -> gradebook | 17:08 |
| yvl | Zope's traversal doesn't work that way :) | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | I know it doesn't | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | I am saying if not nexturl in possibleurls: nexturl = gradebook | 17:09 |
| aelkner | so you're agreeing with what i said | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:10 |
| aelkner | yvl? | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | I am just making sure it is not just *no* nexturl but also invalid nexturl | 17:10 |
| yvl | I'm not sure that we should implement it this way right now | 17:10 |
| yvl | there are several other places with nexturl in SchoolTool | 17:11 |
| * yvl votes for consistency - do it everywhere VS not doing at all | 17:11 | |
| aelkner | right now nexturl is caliculated by the view class | 17:12 |
| yvl | I'd say keep the full nexturl | 17:13 |
| yvl | just keep it out of GET | 17:13 |
| yvl | hidden input is ok | 17:13 |
| aelkner | but a link needs to use GET | 17:13 |
| aelkner | if i'm in one view with links on it | 17:14 |
| aelkner | the links can't have POST info in them, can they? | 17:14 |
| yvl | nope | 17:14 |
| aelkner | so what are you suggesting? | 17:14 |
| yvl | well, you can write a traverser, if links look ok | 17:14 |
| yvl | somethingsomething/intervention/traverse_to_your_container/edit.html | 17:15 |
| yvl | and have the edit.html return to parent | 17:15 |
| aelkner | ug | 17:16 |
| aelkner | that sounds like a sledge hammer for a thumb tack | 17:17 |
| yvl | :) | 17:17 |
| yvl | well, the easiest thing to do would be adding the nexturl to the URL | 17:17 |
| aelkner | that was the idea | 17:18 |
| yvl | and then promising ourselves that we'll revisit this issue for the whole SchoolTool | 17:18 |
| th1a | If we wrote that traverser would it be a general solution? | 17:18 |
| yvl | no | 17:18 |
| aelkner | traversers are never a genreral solution | 17:18 |
| aelkner | they are a general pain maybe | 17:19 |
| aelkner | and to be used ONLY when absolutely necessary | 17:19 |
| yvl | calendar and booking uses cancel, back, next urls | 17:19 |
| th1a | I vote for nexturl for now. | 17:20 |
| yvl | Agreed. | 17:20 |
| th1a | Do we already have a bug report for that? | 17:20 |
| aelkner | i don't think so | 17:21 |
| yvl | I think not | 17:21 |
| aelkner | there is a third subject from my note, shall i move on to that? | 17:21 |
| yvl | please do | 17:22 |
| th1a | Can you file that bug aelkner. (I'll do the tab bug) | 17:22 |
| aelkner | th1a: what should the bug say? | 17:22 |
| aelkner | that we need a general solution to nexturl, using hidden fields in the extra0-info slot? | 17:23 |
| aelkner | i'm not sure what we agreed on here | 17:23 |
| yvl | aelkner: that passing back/next/cancel/etc. urls is not a good idea security-wise | 17:23 |
| aelkner | th1a: is that right? | 17:24 |
| th1a | I meant the particular bug you're fixing with nexturl. | 17:24 |
| th1a | There are lots of "Agh, navigation is broken" bugs already. | 17:24 |
| aelkner | oh, let me check if i already added that bug | 17:24 |
| aelkner | ok, i'll add a bug for the need to navigate back to the section interventions view | 17:27 |
| th1a | Right. | 17:27 |
| th1a | Next. | 17:27 |
| aelkner | ok, third and last subject from my note | 17:27 |
| aelkner | 3) setting up a cron job from within schooltool | 17:27 |
| aelkner | at the moment, SLA needs to manually set up a cron job | 17:28 |
| aelkner | that does a CURL on a view that notifies users of goals coming due | 17:28 |
| th1a | There is lovely.remotetask | 17:28 |
| aelkner | yvl: do you know anything about that? | 17:29 |
| yvl | sorry, no | 17:29 |
| yvl | just what I read on PyPI | 17:29 |
| th1a | one moment... | 17:29 |
| th1a | http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/2009/07/08/lovely-remotetask.html | 17:29 |
| yvl | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/lovely.remotetask/0.4 | 17:29 |
| th1a | We'll need this kind of functionality in several places in the near future, so adding the dependency seems worth it to me. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | the dependency should definitely go in schooltool itself | 17:31 |
| aelkner | th1a: can you enter that bug? | 17:31 |
| yvl | umm, aelkner, I'm not sure about that | 17:32 |
| th1a | Well, if it doesn't now it will in a few months, I'd wager. | 17:32 |
| yvl | we can add it then :) | 17:32 |
| Lumiere | remotetask would be good for sending mail or even authentication to external services | 17:32 |
| yvl | My general policy of dependencies: add dependency when something depends on it | 17:33 |
| th1a | kk | 17:33 |
| th1a | That's fine. | 17:33 |
| th1a | Does aelkner know what to do to add it as a dependency for schooltool.intervention? | 17:33 |
| yvl | maybe sla deb is sufficient? | 17:34 |
| aelkner | adding a line to setup.py is easy enough | 17:34 |
| yvl | or everybody that uses schooltool.intervention will always need to set up cron jobs? | 17:34 |
| aelkner | but should this be solved only in schooltool.intervention? | 17:34 |
| th1a | This is a schooltool.interventions feature. | 17:35 |
| th1a | It may later become a more general SchoolTool feature. | 17:35 |
| yvl | In risk of sounding too defensive... | 17:36 |
| yvl | what exactly requires this dependency? | 17:36 |
| yvl | i.e. what cron jobs do you have in mind? | 17:37 |
| aelkner | i described that above | 17:38 |
| aelkner | the notifyGoals.html view | 17:38 |
| th1a | It sends out regular reminders. | 17:38 |
| aelkner | once a day | 17:38 |
| th1a | Say, 1 day before a goal is due. | 17:38 |
| aelkner | actually, on the day itself | 17:39 |
| th1a | Note that doing it inside Zope you probably won't need that curl. | 17:39 |
| aelkner | it shoots an email to all responsible for the goal that comes due | 17:39 |
| aelkner | we definitely wouldn't need the curl | 17:39 |
| th1a | We can hold off on this if you want to think about options for a week, yvl. | 17:40 |
| aelkner | because it wouldn't be a crom job anymore | 17:40 |
| yvl | thanks, th1a | 17:40 |
| aelkner | but a loverly-task instead | 17:40 |
| th1a | There are plenty of other things to do in the meantime. | 17:40 |
| aelkner | lovely.remotetask, that is | 17:40 |
| aelkner | you could add it as Medium priority | 17:40 |
| aelkner | th1a: i added the nexturl bug and assigned it to myself | 17:41 |
| th1a | OK. yvl, tell menesis that I'm ready to push the new landing page this week. | 17:42 |
| yvl | will do. | 17:42 |
| th1a | aelkner: Do you know what you're working on first? | 17:43 |
| aelkner | i was going to ask you to set priorities to Critical for those tasks you wanted me to do first | 17:43 |
| th1a | Um... it may take me a day to re-digest everything we talked about on Monday. | 17:45 |
| th1a | Can you pick something to work on today? | 17:45 |
| aelkner | i can just pick them myself in the meantime | 17:45 |
| aelkner | yes | 17:45 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:46 |
| th1a | Good then. | 17:46 |
| aelkner | i'm only working today and tomoroww | 17:46 |
| th1a | Oh, that's right. | 17:46 |
| aelkner | then i'm off to Maine | 17:46 |
| th1a | Just pick some thing(s) that you can get done in that time. | 17:46 |
| aelkner | sure | 17:46 |
| th1a | Pick something to work on at the beach. ;-) | 17:46 |
| th1a | OK then, I guess that's it. | 17:47 |
| th1a | Have a great week and a great vacation, aelkner! | 17:47 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:47 | |
| aelkner | thanks | 17:48 |
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| th1a | jelkner: Where in the world are you now? | 21:48 |
| jelkner | san miguel, el salvador | 21:51 |
| jelkner | where it is *hot*! | 21:51 |
| jelkner | this has been an awesome trip | 21:51 |
| jelkner | public schools in el salvador are about to begin a migration from windo$ to ubuntu | 21:52 |
| jelkner | i got to talk to someone from the ministry of culture as well | 21:52 |
| jelkner | they want to put free software in their cultural centers around the country | 21:53 |
| jelkner | i got to hang out with replaceafill too | 21:53 |
| jelkner | a great trip! | 21:53 |
| th1a | What's replaceafill's status now? | 21:57 |
| jelkner | th1a: i've got to run to lunch | 21:59 |
| jelkner | he had numonia | 21:59 |
| jelkner | but he is better now | 21:59 |
| jelkner | they finally diagnosed the problem correctly | 21:59 |
| jelkner | so he got the proper treatment | 22:00 |
| jelkner | he just finished dave's user stories | 22:00 |
| th1a | Is he working for you now? | 22:00 |
| th1a | Is he available? | 22:00 |
| jelkner | me? | 22:00 |
| jelkner | yes | 22:00 |
| jelkner | he is available | 22:00 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:00 |
| jelkner | and eager | 22:00 |
| th1a | I have a quick job for him then. | 22:00 |
| th1a | I just sent him an email. | 22:00 |
| jelkner | he is working with me as a volunteer in this free software project | 22:00 |
| jelkner | cool | 22:00 |
| jelkner | bb after lunch then | 22:01 |
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| th1a | hey replaceafill. | 22:34 |
| replaceafill | hey th1a | 22:35 |
| replaceafill | i'm up for the task | 22:35 |
| th1a | OK. | 22:35 |
| th1a | Get started then. | 22:35 |
| th1a | ;-) | 22:35 |
| replaceafill | and have LOTS of free time :) | 22:35 |
| replaceafill | can i ask questions to chris? | 22:35 |
| th1a | Of course. | 22:35 |
| th1a | Do you understand the basic idea? | 22:36 |
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| th1a | He's got some little app he's working on to propogate the same info to all the systems. | 22:36 |
| replaceafill | i think so, create xmlrcp view that allow those tasks, right? | 22:36 |
| replaceafill | s/view/views | 22:36 |
| th1a | Yeah. | 22:37 |
| th1a | In theory, it is quick. | 22:37 |
| replaceafill | and yes, we will need that for the moodle-schooltool integration | 22:37 |
| th1a | Right. | 22:37 |
| th1a | It is the 20% of the work that will do 80% of the work in the Moodle integration. | 22:37 |
| th1a | 80% of the results. | 22:38 |
| replaceafill | i have done some experiments and they worked | 22:38 |
| replaceafill | my only concern is about getting the right permissions in the xmlrpc request | 22:38 |
| replaceafill | i mean, to tests things i always call my views like user:pass@url | 22:39 |
| replaceafill | where user and pass are schooltool valid credentials | 22:39 |
| th1a | We were wondering about that. | 22:41 |
| Lumiere | you'll have to authenticate somehow | 22:53 |
| Lumiere | and saving authentication details on far end systems is bad (especially saving administrator or some other sort of actual user info | 22:53 |
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| th1a | Lumiere: It isn't really different than whatever you normally do over http. | 23:20 |
| Lumiere | th1a: it just adds a method of attack | 23:26 |
| th1a | The client app isn't our concern at this point anyhow. | 23:27 |
| Lumiere | yea | 23:27 |
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| Lumiere | bbl | 23:52 |
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