| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 01:38 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 02:10 | |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 02:42 | |
| *** krushik has quit IRC | 05:11 | |
| *** krushik has joined #schooltool | 05:14 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 05:32 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 05:53 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 06:34 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 06:57 | |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 11:37 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 16:10 | |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 16:18 | |
| *** yvl has joined #schooltool | 16:22 | |
| th1a | yvl: You need to remind me of Lithuanian holidays. | 16:24 |
|---|---|---|
| yvl | sorry :) | 16:26 |
| yvl | yes, today is bank holiday here | 16:26 |
| yvl | so menesis probably won't be with us | 16:27 |
| th1a | That's fine. | 16:27 |
| th1a | You don't have to apologize -- you should be taking the day off! | 16:27 |
| yvl | everybody keeps saying that :) | 16:28 |
| yvl | still, we have a release tomorrow, so... | 16:28 |
| th1a | You can also remind me of Lithuania holidays when I choose a release date. ;-) | 16:29 |
| yvl | that would have been wise. | 16:30 |
| * th1a goes to grab some more coffee... | 16:30 | |
| * yvl too | 16:30 | |
| th1a | Also, countries with a long history of occupation and liberation generate a lot of local holidays. | 16:33 |
| th1a | hi aelkner, Lumiere, moquist, Panentheos. | 16:33 |
| yvl | exactly :) | 16:34 |
| yvl | hello everybody | 16:34 |
| aelkner | morning all | 16:35 |
| th1a | aelkner: So are we all caught up on the gradebook bugs? | 16:37 |
| aelkner | how do mean, 'all caught up'? | 16:38 |
| aelkner | the critical ones are done | 16:38 |
| aelkner | some of the highs and mediums, too | 16:38 |
| th1a | OK, I guess I can check the bug tracker. | 16:38 |
| aelkner | did you get the automatic emails when i changed the status | 16:39 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:39 |
| yvl | yes, thanks aelkner | 16:39 |
| th1a | Thans for turning those around quickly. | 16:39 |
| yvl | https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/+milestone/2009.4.14 looks nice now | 16:39 |
| aelkner | there's one thing | 16:40 |
| aelkner | and to answer yvl's question | 16:40 |
| aelkner | i used the link with the student's name | 16:40 |
| aelkner | as the hook to get to the student gradebook view | 16:40 |
| aelkner | th1a: i know you wanted me to use a carot-type link | 16:41 |
| * yvl wants to shoot that traverser - no offence intended | 16:41 | |
| aelkner | but i didn't get around to asking anyone if there was an example of that in schooltool | 16:41 |
| th1a | Well, a ">" would have worked. | 16:41 |
| aelkner | i could do that real quickly if you;d like | 16:42 |
| yvl | aelkner, how can you reach the view through UI? | 16:42 |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 16:42 | |
| *** ignas_ has joined #schooltool | 16:42 | |
| aelkner | right now by clicking on the student name | 16:43 |
| aelkner | but if it's not too late, i can add a '>' link for that purpose | 16:43 |
| aelkner | and restore the student name link to take you to the student index view | 16:43 |
| yvl | in your gradebook? | 16:43 |
| aelkner | yes | 16:43 |
| th1a | Perhaps you could do that and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/394774 | 16:43 |
| aelkner | sure thing | 16:44 |
| th1a | I did make some progress here: http://book.schooltool.org/htmlhelp/gradebook.html | 16:44 |
| yvl | ok, aelkner, can see that now :) | 16:45 |
| aelkner | cool, gradebook docs! | 16:45 |
| th1a | So those things will be documented there. | 16:45 |
| aelkner | yvl: so you're clear on what i'm changing after the meeting? | 16:46 |
| aelkner | there will be a '>' next to the student name link | 16:46 |
| aelkner | that will get you the student gradebook | 16:46 |
| yvl | yes, thanks | 16:46 |
| aelkner | and the student name link takes you to the student index view | 16:46 |
| aelkner | cool | 16:46 |
| yvl | aelkner, can you reply to the release notes I sent you and Tom? | 16:47 |
| th1a | I can polish them up. | 16:47 |
| yvl | and CC me :) | 16:47 |
| yvl | yes, please | 16:47 |
| aelkner | will do | 16:47 |
| Lumiere | yvl: when menesis and mg are back in tomorrow... I am hoping to run that svn update tomorrow | 16:48 |
| yvl | I tried to write them from "user's perspective" this time | 16:48 |
| yvl | Lumiere, around this time, I think | 16:48 |
| Lumiere | yvl: which will mean getting them to swap the cando repository with one that I create | 16:48 |
| aelkner | yvl: the bzr log of my branch shows douglas' checkin comment with the bug he fixed | 16:49 |
| yvl | yes, but I don't know which bug | 16:49 |
| aelkner | it says so | 16:49 |
| aelkner | bug 391787 | 16:49 |
| Lumiere | yvl: I hope it will be easy, but mg worked through what the steps are with me, so he will know more about what needs to happen then menesis | 16:49 |
| yvl | ok Lumiere | 16:51 |
| yvl | I'll talk to them if anything | 16:51 |
| th1a | yvl: Should we do the release around this time tomorrow? | 16:51 |
| th1a | I want to announce the changes slightly before they hit the PPA. | 16:52 |
| yvl | yes th1a | 16:52 |
| yvl | aelkner, thanks, I'll update the notes for Tom | 16:52 |
| th1a | OK. Cool. | 16:53 |
| aelkner | yvl: you also asked about using the comment score system | 16:53 |
| yvl | yes | 16:53 |
| th1a | Lumiere: So this switch is a step toward the svn > bzr conversion? | 16:53 |
| yvl | that's the one question remaining :) | 16:53 |
| aelkner | for now, only report sheet activities can use them | 16:53 |
| th1a | I'm going to try to have report sheets documented before I go to bed tomorrow. | 16:54 |
| aelkner | 'Comment' appears in the pull down for activity category | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | th1a: yes | 16:54 |
| th1a | Right now it is just one undocumented detail in a big undocumented system. | 16:54 |
| Lumiere | th1a: we cannot run any of the bzr switching programs | 16:55 |
| Lumiere | until we have a clean svn | 16:55 |
| Lumiere | which means getting rid of that .svn directory that cvs2svn introduced into the svn repo | 16:55 |
| th1a | Ah yes, the recursive .svns. | 16:55 |
| aelkner | th1a: if your selenium scripts fail as a result of my gradebook changes, let me know | 16:55 |
| th1a | Oh, the id thing. | 16:57 |
| th1a | Yes, I'll let you know. | 16:57 |
| th1a | Although my main conclusion from all that was that just re-recording them was the quickest solution. | 16:57 |
| th1a | moquist: ayt? | 16:58 |
| aelkner | oh, i didn't mean that | 16:58 |
| aelkner | although that does matter | 16:58 |
| aelkner | i just meant, if the most recent changes breaks anything | 16:59 |
| aelkner | i can help you fix them | 16:59 |
| th1a | Generally speaking it is easy to change them and I'd expect things to break when the UI changes. | 16:59 |
| aelkner | ok | 16:59 |
| th1a | It was just those crazy gradebook cell id's that threw me for a loop. | 16:59 |
| aelkner | what's the html escape for '>'? | 17:00 |
| yvl | > ? | 17:00 |
| aelkner | thanks | 17:00 |
| * Lumiere notes that these selenium scripts will be good for f-testing long term | 17:00 | |
| aelkner | yeah, if you submit a bug report for changing the cell ids, i can get that fixed for the next release | 17:00 |
| th1a | OK, but it isn't a big priority at this point. | 17:01 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: yeah, i was thinking the same thing, but more as additionally rather than instead of | 17:01 |
| * Lumiere never said instead of :) | 17:01 | |
| th1a | I'll have a little better idea of how fragile they actually are after this upgrade. | 17:01 |
| Lumiere | we also need to run them on IE and Safari | 17:01 |
| Lumiere | (and write them across the board) as a way to ensure that we're working on browsers | 17:02 |
| yvl | they're very fragile, as far as I know | 17:02 |
| th1a | Yes, that too. | 17:02 |
| Lumiere | that is a big request we're getting for CanDo at this point | 17:02 |
| Lumiere | safari and IE support | 17:02 |
| th1a | yvl: the gradebook id's? | 17:02 |
| aelkner | i could address that annoying crash on log in timeout if it's not too late for tomorrow's release | 17:02 |
| yvl | selenium tests | 17:02 |
| yvl | in general | 17:03 |
| yvl | apologies if I misread something | 17:03 |
| th1a | Yeah, they're inherently fragile. At least they're easy to do. | 17:03 |
| Lumiere | IE... will have a minimum version (I am not doing IE6 ever) and safari I just need a test | 17:03 |
| th1a | Unlike certain other kinds of tests. | 17:03 |
| yvl | also true, th1a | 17:03 |
| th1a | I think we might have to do something on the server side to run selenium tests on other browsers (not firefox). | 17:03 |
| yvl | Lumiere, won't the most of the problems be presentation bugs? That we cannot test? | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I am assuming we need to virtualbox or xen a windows instance somewhere | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | yvl: selenium takes screenshots of failed tests iirc | 17:04 |
| Lumiere | so you can review the presentation failure | 17:04 |
| yvl | hmm, maybe we can work something out... | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | yea | 17:05 |
| th1a | yvl: Basically, the gradebook cells have ids based on some mysterious number which changed when I switched from the release to trunk. | 17:05 |
| yvl | yes, at least review and confirm if this is the desired behaviour | 17:05 |
| th1a | I'll do some more Selenium research after the release. | 17:05 |
| yvl | ok | 17:06 |
| yvl | will wait for results :) | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I think we want something like selenium grid long term too :) | 17:06 |
| yvl | oh the pain, the pain... | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | lol | 17:07 |
| yvl | colleagues at POV started testing with selenium recently... I'll ask around ;) | 17:08 |
| yvl | + buildbot, of course | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | yvl: yea | 17:09 |
| Lumiere | yvl: is menesis maintaining buildbot now too? | 17:09 |
| * Lumiere is going to have to update cando buildbot and figure out how to get a dpkg built in the next week or soo | 17:10 | |
| th1a | Yes, it is getting to be that time. | 17:11 |
| th1a | You'll be getting paid for this, Lumiere? | 17:11 |
| yvl | Lumiere, yes, he is | 17:11 |
| th1a | Good. | 17:13 |
| th1a | OK, anything else? | 17:13 |
| Lumiere | th1a: yea, I am working for an internship program at ACC | 17:14 |
| th1a | Ah, good. | 17:14 |
| Lumiere | I doubt that they'll mind if I spend a few hours working ACC projects | 17:14 |
| Lumiere | especially since my internships are SysAdmins ;) | 17:14 |
| Lumiere | th1a: the next generation of mattva01's | 17:14 |
| moquist | th1a: hi | 17:15 |
| th1a | Need those. | 17:15 |
| Lumiere | yep | 17:15 |
| moquist | iahn | 17:15 |
| th1a | moquist: Have any news or comments for the week? | 17:15 |
| th1a | We're putting out a minor update tomorrow. | 17:15 |
| Lumiere | th1a: also, if jelkner hasn't already... I expect him to be very interested in the mahara+moodle+st integration | 17:15 |
| moquist | nope, other than that Joe would like access to a schooltool system and I can't provide him one for a few more days | 17:16 |
| moquist | (just to look around) | 17:16 |
| moquist | and we need to figure out a demo for him | 17:16 |
| Lumiere | moquist: will you be around this afternoon? | 17:16 |
| th1a | Do you want to do something VNC-like? | 17:16 |
| Lumiere | and what level of access does he need? | 17:16 |
| moquist | I'm in a big project this week, but planning to jump back into Moodle integration planning next week. | 17:16 |
| moquist | th1a: sure, something VNC-like would be fine, I expect. | 17:17 |
| moquist | Lumiere: I will be around yes. | 17:17 |
| Lumiere | th1a: if you can't figure something out... I should be able to get a demo st up for him to play around on | 17:17 |
| moquist | Lumiere: Not sure. He's probably interested in administrative access, but teacher access might also be instructive, at least if he can see the attendance system. | 17:17 |
| Lumiere | moquist: access was more asking if he wanted system access as well as login access :) | 17:18 |
| th1a | Realistically, a guided tour would probably be most helpful. | 17:18 |
| aelkner | th1a: for hide=delete, is it enough to just change the column heading from Hide? to Delete?, or do you want more explanation? | 17:18 |
| th1a | In the short term. | 17:18 |
| moquist | Lumiere: oh, heck no. I don't think Joe is much of an ssh-type-guy. :) | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | hehe | 17:18 |
| th1a | aelkner: That's fine. | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: users don't care that you aren't actually deleting them :) | 17:18 |
| moquist | th1a: yes, I think the access to an example system will be 100% more valuable after a tour. | 17:18 |
| moquist | maybe they should go together. :) | 17:19 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:19 |
| Lumiere | they'll just be estatic that you made it reappear when they accidentally deleted | 17:19 |
| moquist | so once a system is set up, there can be a VNC tour, and then he can play on his own. | 17:19 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:20 |
| th1a | I should learn how to set up an instance on E2C. | 17:21 |
| th1a | Anything else, gentlemen? | 17:23 |
| yvl | hmm | 17:23 |
| yvl | there's quite a lot I wanted to talk about, but I'm afraid that will be too long for an IRC meeting | 17:23 |
| yvl | basically: | 17:23 |
| yvl | I think it's time to redesign action bar a bit | 17:24 |
| yvl | 2) I'll want to rewrite (a little) the XLS importer/exporter | 17:24 |
| yvl | 3) python2.4 support | 17:24 |
| th1a | Action bar needs some love, yes. | 17:25 |
| th1a | We can keep going. | 17:25 |
| yvl | 4) CanDo and SLA deb deployment is getting close... we could do some architectural stuff related to that (if needed) | 17:25 |
| * th1a goes to pee. | 17:25 | |
| yvl | :D | 17:25 |
| yvl | just wanted to get those out in the open, I'll probably will start bugging you all with emails | 17:26 |
| aelkner | yvl: i'm doing a lot of changes to sla package this month, so that will effect any deb deployment that you set up | 17:26 |
| yvl | can you send me a short summary? | 17:27 |
| aelkner | later this month? | 17:27 |
| yvl | what you will be moving / removing / changing | 17:27 |
| yvl | on module level | 17:27 |
| aelkner | removing narrative report cards | 17:27 |
| aelkner | i will be migrating their data to the new gradebook comments | 17:27 |
| aelkner | moving the intervention package to the schooltool egg | 17:28 |
| th1a | It shouldn't create many packaging issues for SchoolTool other than that. | 17:28 |
| th1a | (moving interventions into SchoolTool) | 17:28 |
| * yvl agrees | 17:28 | |
| th1a | The rest of is stuff only aelkner knows about anyhow. | 17:28 |
| yvl | I really want to introduce terms like "Application" "Core" and "Plug-in" into our dictionary | 17:29 |
| yvl | but more on that later | 17:29 |
| aelkner | th1a: is there any reason for a deb for sla? | 17:29 |
| aelkner | it's just a custom package for them | 17:29 |
| aelkner | i probably didn't need to ask | 17:29 |
| aelkner | i'm guessing you want them to be able to apt-get update even for their custom package | 17:30 |
| yvl | as for action bar redesign... I have an idea how to do that, but it will take some dev time, and I don't have a mock-up right now | 17:30 |
| yvl | and by some, I mean more than three days | 17:30 |
| th1a | It needs to be done. | 17:31 |
| yvl | Yes. Main reasons: dead ends in general, order of action buttons is often confusing, too many action buttons take too much space and it's not always obvious which button leads where | 17:31 |
| th1a | I agree. | 17:31 |
| yvl | thank you :) | 17:31 |
| th1a | Perhaps getting permissions under control is an even bigger priority though. | 17:31 |
| aelkner | i have a question for the group | 17:32 |
| th1a | Being able to audit who can do what. | 17:32 |
| aelkner | does anyone know of an example for handling the session timeout issue | 17:32 |
| * Lumiere would love to have a simple system to give permissions to groups and to see what permissions are hard-granted from the web | 17:32 | |
| yvl | th1a, can I just skip most of the action-bar related bugs for now? I don't want to do double work... | 17:32 |
| aelkner | IPerson(self.request.principal) crashes on timeout | 17:32 |
| th1a | yvl: yes. | 17:33 |
| aelkner | can someone point me to schooltool code for handling that? | 17:33 |
| yvl | hmm, it is handled somewhere in schooltool | 17:33 |
| * yvl goes to look | 17:33 | |
| aelkner | yvl: if you can't find it quickly, i will do the research | 17:33 |
| aelkner | i just thought, if you knew off hand | 17:33 |
| aelkner | or if ignas_ did | 17:34 |
| yvl | app/browser/overlay.py does some handling | 17:34 |
| yvl | app/browser/cal.py also | 17:34 |
| aelkner | excellent, thanks | 17:35 |
| aelkner | th1a: if i can get that handled today, would it be in time for this release? | 17:35 |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 17:35 | |
| aelkner | of is that too much to put on yvl's plate, review-wise | 17:36 |
| th1a | I think so, although I'm not the one doing it. | 17:36 |
| yvl | th1a, when time permits... I'll start peeking at security | 17:36 |
| yvl | aelkner, please feel free to commit | 17:36 |
| yvl | I can always reject the fix ;) | 17:37 |
| aelkner | :) | 17:37 |
| th1a | The first issue is simply creating some views that illustrate what each group can do. | 17:37 |
| Lumiere | yvl: the general issue is trying to balance customization with usability :) | 17:37 |
| yvl | isn't it always ;) | 17:37 |
| Lumiere | my understanding is we went from totally-insanely customizable | 17:38 |
| Lumiere | and totally unusable :) | 17:38 |
| Lumiere | to totally un-customizable but usuable | 17:38 |
| Lumiere | until you want to customize ;) | 17:38 |
| th1a | I'm primarily worried first about being able to clearly explain to someone what each role can do. | 17:38 |
| Lumiere | yea | 17:38 |
| th1a | I'm still not very worried about customization. | 17:39 |
| * Lumiere would like that programatically | 17:39 | |
| yvl | I get a feeling, that grouping in action bars and explaining security permissions is closely related | 17:39 |
| Lumiere | yvl: likely | 17:39 |
| yvl | though I can't put a finger on it yet | 17:39 |
| Lumiere | th1a: some of the districts looking at it for phase 2 pilot in va | 17:39 |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 17:39 | |
| Lumiere | have that as a sticking point | 17:39 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:39 |
| yvl | when is that? | 17:39 |
| th1a | Whereas a slightly glitchy action bar is not going to be a sticking point. | 17:39 |
| Lumiere | yvl: lol :) july 15 initial package, august 1 data entry | 17:40 |
| Lumiere | data in by august 15 | 17:40 |
| * yvl is forgetful :/ | 17:40 | |
| Lumiere | which is why I am pushing the svn thing tomorrow | 17:40 |
| Lumiere | and then working on packages with menesis | 17:40 |
| th1a | The Moodle security pages are actually pretty clear. | 17:40 |
| Lumiere | th1a: yes | 17:40 |
| th1a | Simply displaying each role on a page by itself makes it far more legible. | 17:41 |
| th1a | I was still stuck in my head on the Zope grid o' death. | 17:41 |
| yvl | ok, I'll spend some time on it and see what is sensible to do and by when | 17:41 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Could you send yvl some Moodle screenshots? Do you have a Moodle handy? | 17:42 |
| th1a | (of the permissions screens) | 17:42 |
| Lumiere | th1a: hmm I don't have any really recent moodles | 17:42 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:43 |
| th1a | moquist? | 17:43 |
| Lumiere | moquist is likely the best option :) | 17:44 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:45 |
| th1a | Anything else? | 17:45 |
| th1a | That gives yvl some things to chew on. | 17:45 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:45 |
| yvl | yes, thank you :)))) | 17:45 |
| th1a | nom nom nom | 17:46 |
| yvl | *choke* | 17:46 |
| th1a | Ok, well... | 17:46 |
| yvl | :) | 17:46 |
| th1a | Happy Millennium Lithuania! | 17:47 |
| th1a | May the next one be smoother than the first! | 17:47 |
| Lumiere | lol | 17:47 |
| yvl | thank you!!!! | 17:47 |
| th1a | Have a great week, as well. | 17:47 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:47 | |
| moquist | sorry; in a meeting | 17:47 |
| yvl | a good week for you all | 17:48 |
| * yvl leaves | 17:48 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 18:04 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 18:13 | |
| moquist | th1a: | 18:24 |
| moquist | *sigh* | 18:24 |
| moquist | th1a, Lumiere: http://vlacs.org/~moquist/moodle19/ - login info shortly (after I remember the password) | 18:25 |
| *** aelkner has quit IRC | 18:36 | |
| *** aelkner has joined #schooltool | 18:39 | |
| *** ignas_ has quit IRC | 20:32 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 20:36 | |
| *** cpcarey has joined #schooltool | 21:20 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 22:12 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 22:14 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 22:25 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 23:10 | |
| *** dlobo has quit IRC | 23:22 | |
| *** dlobo has joined #schooltool | 23:38 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!