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| th1a | Hi yvl, menesis, moquist, aelkner, Lumiere. | 16:30 |
|---|---|---|
| aelkner | morning | 16:30 |
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| th1a | aelkner: Have you made any progress on the comments feature? | 16:32 |
| yvl | hi guys :) | 16:33 |
| aelkner | i've been working on the view for student grades | 16:33 |
| aelkner | i need to dynamically generate the form fields, so i've been studying z3c.formlib | 16:34 |
| aelkner | i don't believe schooltool has an example of a dynamically generated form | 16:35 |
| th1a | As opposed to one that is generated from the interface? | 16:35 |
| aelkner | you see, normally, a form is generated from an interface that maps to an object | 16:36 |
| menesis | hello. | 16:36 |
| aelkner | but in this case, the object is an adapter of the gradebook object | 16:36 |
| aelkner | and the fields depend on the activities in the gradebook | 16:37 |
| aelkner | which is not static, so i need to loop through the activities and generate the form fields from them | 16:37 |
| th1a | I see. Well if you get stuck, don't be afraid to ask for help. | 16:38 |
| aelkner | don't worry, i won't | 16:38 |
| th1a | aelkner is working on adding the ability to store comments in the gradebook. | 16:38 |
| aelkner | yeah, that means having a new form that allow the user to enter the grades for all activities for a student | 16:39 |
| yvl | aelkner, scoholtool will soon have examples of such forms :) | 16:39 |
| aelkner | yvl: oh really? | 16:39 |
| aelkner | what is the feature? | 16:40 |
| yvl | but not very good ones | 16:40 |
| yvl | feature: On the course view form, next to the "New Section" button, instead of a drop-down to select a single term, there should be (above the button probably?) a list of terms in the year with check boxes, so you can create multiple *linked* sections across terms. | 16:40 |
| yvl | it is now a separate page | 16:40 |
| yvl | with 3 dynamically generated drop-downs | 16:40 |
| yvl | didn't commit it yet, though | 16:41 |
| yvl | and Contact should have similar views | 16:41 |
| yvl | all of it is pretty "unclean" | 16:41 |
| aelkner | could you please email me the branch you publish when you commit something | 16:41 |
| aelkner | it doesn't have to be clean | 16:41 |
| yvl | it will go straight to trunk | 16:41 |
| th1a | I'm a little confused at this point, yvl. I think I filed some contradictory bugs about this over time :-S | 16:41 |
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| yvl | no th1a, all the bugs lead to a nice solution, thanks :) | 16:42 |
| aelkner | yvl: could you email me when you commit it to trunk? | 16:42 |
| th1a | So we'll now have a "New Section" action and then? | 16:42 |
| yvl | ok aelkner | 16:42 |
| yvl | yes, th1a | 16:42 |
| yvl | and a view with course, start term, end term dropdowns | 16:42 |
| th1a | aelkner: You can subscribe to commits to trunk. | 16:42 |
| yvl | and of course title and description fields | 16:42 |
| th1a | Is that from the section container? | 16:43 |
| yvl | section container, or a course | 16:43 |
| yvl | terms get pre-selected on the first case | 16:43 |
| yvl | course on the second | 16:43 |
| yvl | seemed logical to put "New Section" in both places | 16:43 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:44 |
| aelkner | th1a: how do i do that? do i need to go to each branch to subscribe to commits? | 16:44 |
| th1a | aelkner: I don't know offhand. | 16:44 |
| yvl | aelkner, I think you want to | 16:45 |
| yvl | instead of following all the branches of schooltool-owners | 16:45 |
| yvl | just trunk, gradebook trunk, lyceum journal trunk, etc. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Just the trunks. | 16:45 |
| yvl | yes | 16:45 |
| yvl | by the way, Alan, z3c.form might be... umm.. unfinished when it comes to subforms | 16:47 |
| yvl | so don't be alarmed if things seem worse than they should | 16:47 |
| yvl | because they are | 16:47 |
| th1a | Is there a new release of z3c.forms? | 16:47 |
| th1a | 2.0 or something? | 16:48 |
| th1a | Stephan announced something recently. | 16:48 |
| yvl | yes | 16:49 |
| yvl | 2.0 | 16:49 |
| th1a | At this point do we wait for that to get into a KGS? | 16:50 |
| yvl | fixes some of the things that were bothering me | 16:50 |
| yvl | it maintains KGS 3.4 compatibility | 16:50 |
| yvl | I missed the new z3c.form release somehow... | 16:50 |
| yvl | will look at it | 16:51 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:51 |
| yvl | from the first glance, it seems that it's a good idea to update the dependency to it | 16:51 |
| yvl | but you know... | 16:51 |
| yvl | * but you never know | 16:52 |
| th1a | Indeed. | 16:52 |
| th1a | OK, what else is going on yvl? | 16:52 |
| * th1a has been piling on the bugs. | 16:53 | |
| yvl | yes, I noticed :) | 16:53 |
| yvl | sorry that the progress is so slow | 16:53 |
| yvl | many of the remaining bugs have some deeper issues underneath them | 16:54 |
| yvl | I spent some time last week looking at the dead-end bugs | 16:54 |
| yvl | but failed to write an email to you | 16:54 |
| yvl | seems like a widget similar to those in Launchpad should solve them | 16:55 |
| yvl | because they are "return to parent container" type of bugs | 16:55 |
| th1a | I'd prefer not to use breadcrumbs. | 16:55 |
| yvl | simple breadcrumbs should fail, well at least from the first glance | 16:55 |
| th1a | What widget are you referring to in LP? | 16:56 |
| yvl | the bread-crumby thingy Launchpad/SchoolTool | 16:56 |
| yvl | it never goes deep as normal breadcrumbs | 16:56 |
| yvl | max depth I've seen is 3 items | 16:57 |
| yvl | (the top left corner) | 16:57 |
| th1a | Ah. | 16:57 |
| yvl | it's purpose is to provide some sensible scope your'e working on, instead of tracing the full path | 16:58 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:58 |
| yvl | I wonder what were the reasons to reject breadcrumbs in SchoolTool? | 16:58 |
| th1a | a) everything I've read indicates that users don't understand them. | 16:59 |
| yvl | and I've seen a proposal dated few years back that suggest the Launchpad-like version | 16:59 |
| th1a | b) they encourage our developers to think of SchoolTool strictly in terms of mapping to the ZODB hierarchy. | 16:59 |
| th1a | c) they encourage our developers to not worry about navigation because the user can always breadcrumb out of trouble in theory. | 17:00 |
| aelkner | yes, all good points | 17:00 |
| yvl | true | 17:01 |
| th1a | d) at times you are moved from one part of the hierarchy to another as a user, which isn't confusing unless you're looking at the breadcrumbs, which are now totally different. | 17:01 |
| th1a | The only problem with a general "Up to parent" type solution is that I don't think the parent is always where you came from. | 17:01 |
| yvl | what if we just used a single item? | 17:02 |
| th1a | In the past we've talked about passing the return URL to a form. | 17:02 |
| th1a | yvl: That could be fine. | 17:02 |
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| yvl | for example, when editing a demographics field: | 17:03 |
| yvl | *Demographics* // [view] [edit] | 17:03 |
| yvl | view and edit looking like actions | 17:03 |
| yvl | *Demographics* looking like something else | 17:03 |
| yvl | so that people wouldn't confuse them | 17:03 |
| yvl | th1a, I'll create a separate branch for that then? | 17:04 |
| yvl | so you all can look at it and decide if it's worth keeping | 17:04 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:04 |
| yvl | that thing would make easier to solve 6 bugs, I think | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | I would think it would be useful to keep a 'last location' type of thing | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | that kept track of the last area they were at (a section, people, group, etc) | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | rather then a breadcrumb | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | a way back to what they were looking at last | 17:06 |
| th1a | I tend agree with Lumiere. | 17:06 |
| yvl | I had something similar in mind | 17:06 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:07 |
| yvl | but not auto-detected, because I hate when this kind of automation fails | 17:07 |
| th1a | Not auto-detecting what? | 17:07 |
| yvl | the last place or container or something visited | 17:07 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:08 |
| th1a | I think we're on the same page. | 17:08 |
| th1a | Lumiere: How's CanDo packaging coming? | 17:08 |
| yvl | that's basically all I have to report without going into too much detail | 17:08 |
| th1a | Thanks yvl. | 17:08 |
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| th1a | Did everyone read the email I forwarded from jinty about Zope Framework packages in Debian? | 17:11 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I was at a wedding last week | 17:14 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Let us know if you need any help. | 17:15 |
| yvl | th1a, I missed it :| | 17:15 |
| th1a | I think I forwarded it to the developers list. | 17:15 |
| th1a | Checking... | 17:16 |
| th1a | Whoops. Old developers list... | 17:16 |
| th1a | Gotta take that out of my contacts. | 17:16 |
| th1a | OK, well, it is good news. | 17:17 |
| th1a | Although I don't think we'll make it into karmic, the long term trend is good for us now. | 17:17 |
| th1a | yvl & menesis: Did either of you talk to the Russians about packaging? | 17:18 |
| menesis | th1a: not yet. I am writing the email at the moment | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | will need some tomorrow | 17:18 |
| Lumiere | called to office bbiab | 17:18 |
| th1a | OK Lumiere. | 17:19 |
| th1a | menesis: Thanks. | 17:19 |
| menesis | th1a: but the basic answer is -- I cannot create all those RPMs | 17:19 |
| th1a | I don't want YOU to. | 17:19 |
| th1a | They seem capable of it, with some direction. | 17:20 |
| menesis | but as I understood by reading the mail again, they will do that themselves? | 17:20 |
| menesis | that's good | 17:20 |
| th1a | Yeah -- they maintain a whole distribution themselves. | 17:20 |
| menesis | oh | 17:20 |
| th1a | That's why I've been trying to get this going... | 17:20 |
| th1a | if it was just more work for us I wouldn't be excited. ;-) | 17:20 |
| menesis | I have installed CentOS and it has only a handful of python packages | 17:21 |
| menesis | the problem is that Schooltool depends on Zope | 17:21 |
| menesis | and as I understand there are NO Zope packages for any of RPM-based distros | 17:21 |
| th1a | But don't we automatically generate all the .debs we need from eggs? | 17:21 |
| th1a | We can't use the Ubuntu Zope packages anyhow. | 17:22 |
| menesis | and that's a bigger task than packaging schooltool. | 17:22 |
| menesis | well, it's not that automatic | 17:22 |
| th1a | Regardless, it is worth our while to point them at how we do it for .debs and let them decide if they can do it for .rpms. | 17:23 |
| menesis | although it's simple. and building rpms is built-in to python distutils | 17:23 |
| th1a | They also have a lot of Zope 2 experience, so it may work out. | 17:23 |
| menesis | maybe | 17:23 |
| th1a | It is better than a shot in the dark, at least. | 17:23 |
| menesis | will see | 17:23 |
| menesis | I'll send an email with some details later today | 17:24 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 17:24 |
| ignas | aelkner: if you need custom fields for z3c.form - look at custom demographics | 17:25 |
| menesis | I'm sorry I am so late with that | 17:25 |
| aelkner | ignas: ah, yes, thanks | 17:26 |
| menesis | and also I will not be available from wednesday to sunday to answer their emails | 17:26 |
| th1a | menesis: Just let them know that. The rest of us will help if we can. | 17:27 |
| ignas | yvl: as for breadcrumbs - in a lot of places where some kind of navigation between "parent" objects is needed I used to do a "full header" (look at section views) that includes links to places that you care about | 17:27 |
| yvl | yes | 17:28 |
| yvl | though doing that for Manage->XXX links looks just... wrong | 17:28 |
| yvl | * links pointing to Manage->XXX | 17:29 |
| ignas | you are talking about "errors" "custom demographics" ... or about "Years" "Groups" "Persons" ? | 17:30 |
| yvl | the latter | 17:30 |
| yvl | "Years" "Groups" "Persons" | 17:30 |
| ignas | going from Years -> Manage or going from 2009 -> Years? | 17:31 |
| yvl | 2009 -> Years | 17:31 |
| yvl | or from editing a specific group to "Groups" | 17:32 |
| ignas | hmm, yeah, our containers do not have a "Up" link, and you have to make 2 clicks to get there most of the time | 17:32 |
| yvl | ture - but it looks like dead-ends | 17:33 |
| th1a | I'm not so much worried about "Up" links seeming out of context but the times when "Up" takes you to a different place than where you came "down" from. | 17:33 |
| * yvl too | 17:35 | |
| ignas | yes, it would be nice to have /2009/groups/foo_bar/members/john/ with "up" pointing to foo_bar/members | 17:35 |
| ignas | the views on views thing for table views ;) | 17:35 |
| yvl | or even foo_bar | 17:35 |
| * yvl votes for foo_bar :) | 17:35 | |
| ignas | because at the moment when clicking on "john" in the "members" list | 17:36 |
| ignas | you will get to /persons/john | 17:36 |
| ignas | and that will either have "the same view with same url has different "up" buttons" | 17:36 |
| ignas | or "i click john, i click up, wtf!?" | 17:36 |
| yvl | there are two solutions I'm tossing around | 17:37 |
| yvl | one, to bluntly keep track of where you came from | 17:37 |
| ignas | as in - replicate the "back" button? | 17:37 |
| yvl | something like that, but more like back->back | 17:38 |
| yvl | the second one - to deduce a link from who you are | 17:38 |
| th1a | You might have only certain pages register themselves as potential "back" locations. | 17:38 |
| yvl | teacher looking at a person who is student, cares about the students group | 17:38 |
| th1a | Index views. | 17:38 |
| yvl | or something like that | 17:39 |
| yvl | th1a, yes | 17:39 |
| * th1a has to go babysit. | 17:39 | |
| th1a | Have a great week gentlemen! | 17:39 |
| th1a | Thanks for the help ignas. | 17:39 |
| yvl | thanks | 17:39 |
| yvl | a great week for you all :) | 17:39 |
| th1a | Carry on among yourselves... | 17:39 |
| ignas | np, am not helping really ;) | 17:39 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:40 | |
| ignas | I am not sure 100% automatic solution will really work, though i guess it's a matter of taste | 17:40 |
| * yvl is not sure either | 17:41 | |
| yvl | hence - tossing around | 17:41 |
| ignas | I am pretty sure it will take loads of time fine tuning a 100% automatic solution to work well, and you will end up with a skynet :) | 17:41 |
| yvl | probably | 17:42 |
| yvl | I generally hate those 100% automated predictions of what you want to do | 17:43 |
| ignas | yeah, I still would keep the hierarchy on the traverser layer | 17:44 |
| ignas | to keep it "visible" | 17:44 |
| ignas | so group/members/1 group/members/john | 17:44 |
| ignas | but that's mostly because of the way my brain works | 17:44 |
| yvl | group/members/1? | 17:45 |
| ignas | well - whichever way you do it ;) because you are referring to a "relationship" | 17:46 |
| ignas | what I want to say is | 17:46 |
| yvl | hmm, got it | 17:46 |
| ignas | you can store the "up" in Session | 17:46 |
| yvl | or in traverser | 17:46 |
| ignas | or in hidden attribute | 17:46 |
| ignas | or in the url | 17:46 |
| yvl | I meant url | 17:47 |
| ignas | I like url, because you can see it and user can see it | 17:47 |
| yvl | I noticed that ;) | 17:47 |
| yvl | calendar editing... ;) | 17:47 |
| yvl | * calendar event editing | 17:48 |
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| cpcarey | Lumiere: ping | 17:52 |
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| Lumiere | hi cpcarey | 18:17 |
| cpcarey | hello Lumiere | 18:17 |
| Lumiere | I was in a meeting with my Principal | 18:17 |
| Lumiere | cpcarey: I have the current nhs service log | 18:18 |
| cpcarey | with or without my changes? | 18:18 |
| Lumiere | without for sur | 18:18 |
| Lumiere | cpcarey@nhs.yhspatriot.net | 18:19 |
| Lumiere | change the password please | 18:19 |
| Lumiere | I have a feeling we'll have to give you some memory | 18:19 |
| Lumiere | yep | 18:20 |
| Lumiere | cpcarey: I am not going to be able to do much more to help atm | 18:20 |
| cpcarey | thats ok | 18:20 |
| cpcarey | i don't know the default password though | 18:20 |
| Lumiere | see pm | 18:21 |
| cpcarey | that doesn't work | 18:22 |
| cpcarey | is this something newly set up, or something older in which i might've already changed the password? | 18:22 |
| Lumiere | uh I just made the account | 18:25 |
| Lumiere | try again | 18:25 |
| cpcarey | ok i got it | 18:25 |
| cpcarey | i put ccarey by mistake XD | 18:25 |
| cpcarey | haha sorry | 18:25 |
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| fsufitch | Lumiere: ping | 19:02 |
| th1a | menesis: This is timely: http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/06/22/Revisiting-RedHat | 19:05 |
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| Lumiere | fsufitch: hi | 19:14 |
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| mattva01 | yo | 19:15 |
| mattva01 | chris? | 19:15 |
| Lumiere | mattva01: can you help them with anything they need on nhs.yhspatriot.net | 19:16 |
| mattva01 | yep | 19:16 |
| Lumiere | thanks | 19:16 |
| fsufitch | Lumiere: hi | 19:16 |
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| fsufitch | Lumiere: do you have a cando Data.fs i could use? | 19:16 |
| mattva01 | you already have accounts? | 19:17 |
| mattva01 | or no? | 19:17 |
| Lumiere | fsufitch: cpcarey has admin | 19:17 |
| Lumiere | he just needs to sudo su nhs | 19:17 |
| Lumiere | :) | 19:17 |
| fsufitch | Lumiere: the problem was that he scp'd the files from his comp to the server | 19:17 |
| mattva01 | lol i just noticed that as you typed it | 19:17 |
| fsufitch | and python apparently got corrupted in the process | 19:17 |
| cpcarey_ | hello | 19:17 |
| Lumiere | oO | 19:17 |
| mattva01 | great | 19:18 |
| mattva01 | let me check | 19:18 |
| mattva01 | works for me | 19:18 |
| fsufitch | works for him not :-P | 19:19 |
| fsufitch | *now | 19:19 |
| mattva01 | lol | 19:19 |
| fsufitch | anyway, do u have a CanDo Data.fs i could use? | 19:20 |
| Lumiere | oh yes | 19:20 |
| mattva01 | am I still needed? | 19:20 |
| Lumiere | mattva01: don't poof too hard | 19:20 |
| Lumiere | not sure what they'll need | 19:20 |
| mattva01 | i have to get on the bus to go take a certification test in 30 minutes | 19:21 |
| cpcarey_ | so when i'm ready to make the transition, i change to user nhs | 19:21 |
| Lumiere | cpcarey: yea, nhs is where it should run | 19:21 |
| cpcarey_ | ok | 19:21 |
| Lumiere | fsufitch: where do you want it | 19:21 |
| fsufitch | Lumiere: email or someplace online | 19:22 |
| Lumiere | fsufitch: I can't put it anywhere insecure | 19:22 |
| Lumiere | it has live student data | 19:22 |
| fsufitch | ohhh | 19:22 |
| fsufitch | then email | 19:22 |
| Lumiere | how about your devel instance | 19:22 |
| fsufitch | dev instance is on my home computer | 19:22 |
| fsufitch | i could give you ssh to it | 19:23 |
| fsufitch | so you can just scp it there | 19:23 |
| Lumiere | I meant your tjtalk one | 19:23 |
| fsufitch | that one's been down apparently | 19:23 |
| Lumiere | the dns is | 19:23 |
| Lumiere | XD | 19:23 |
| Lumiere | 158.59.200.122 | 19:23 |
| fsufitch | meh | 19:23 |
| fsufitch | just scp it to jstraw@home.n2yo.net | 19:24 |
| Lumiere | k | 19:24 |
| fsufitch | your password is that long yellow fruit | 19:24 |
| mattva01 | starfruit? | 19:24 |
| fsufitch | optimally do a passwd while ur there | 19:24 |
| fsufitch | no | 19:24 |
| fsufitch | -.- | 19:24 |
| Lumiere | sending | 19:25 |
| fsufitch | i see :) | 19:25 |
| fsufitch | done? | 19:26 |
| Lumiere | yea | 19:26 |
| fsufitch | cool | 19:26 |
| fsufitch | annd now it's in my secure home dir | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | lol | 19:27 |
| fsufitch | and jstraw doesnt exist anymore :) | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | perfect | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | I was going to dump an ssh key and change the password to gobbeldy gook :) | 19:27 |
| Lumiere | but not existing is better | 19:28 |
| fsufitch | lol | 19:28 |
| fsufitch | yeah | 19:28 |
| fsufitch | having my home comp on ssh is so useful tho | 19:29 |
| fsufitch | socks proxy for getting around pesky website blocks? yay! | 19:29 |
| fsufitch | i can view facebook in school :-P | 19:29 |
| mattva01 | ssh -D ? | 19:31 |
| mattva01 | ok i have to go | 19:31 |
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| Lumiere | fsufitch: ssh on port 443? | 19:33 |
| Lumiere | I am going home | 19:33 |
| Lumiere | bbiab | 19:33 |
| fsufitch | Lumiere: i have to enable 443, right now it depends on 22 being open | 19:35 |
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| fsufitch | Lumiere: ping | 19:46 |
| fsufitch | the manager password for the Data.fs you gave me is unfriendly | 19:47 |
| fsufitch | because it's live :( | 19:47 |
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