| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 04:59 | |
| *** th1a has quit IRC | 05:02 | |
| *** jeiworth has quit IRC | 06:01 | |
| *** spowers has quit IRC | 10:49 | |
| *** spowers has joined #schooltool | 11:11 | |
| *** Aiste has joined #schooltool | 11:11 | |
| *** mgedmin has joined #schooltool | 11:11 | |
| *** krushik has quit IRC | 14:20 | |
| *** alga has joined #SchoolTool | 14:26 | |
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 14:45 | |
| *** krushik has joined #schooltool | 15:00 | |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 15:43 | |
| *** jeiworth has joined #schooltool | 17:35 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 18:00 | |
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 18:01 | |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #schooltool | 19:48 | |
| th1a | Hi replaceafill. | 19:49 |
|---|---|---|
| replaceafill | hi th1a | 19:49 |
| replaceafill | saw your mail | 19:49 |
| replaceafill | and matt contacted me yesterday | 19:49 |
| th1a | Good. | 19:50 |
| th1a | replaceafill: I sent you a link to the requirements document on Google Docs. | 19:54 |
| replaceafill | reading it... | 19:55 |
| *** Aiste has quit IRC | 19:58 | |
| replaceafill | th1a, wow | 19:59 |
| replaceafill | th1a, lots of new things :) | 19:59 |
| th1a | Well... nothing too hard. | 19:59 |
| th1a | I need to see how much money they have... | 19:59 |
| th1a | But a lot of things are essentially just a new data object attached to a person or school. | 20:00 |
| replaceafill | yes | 20:00 |
| th1a | Without a lot of logic needed. | 20:00 |
| Lumiere | replaceafill: where did you commit from yesterday? | 20:03 |
| Lumiere | err 6/2 | 20:03 |
| replaceafill | yesterday? | 20:03 |
| Lumiere | there is a commit that is attributed to me, but I really doubt it was me | 20:03 |
| replaceafill | :| | 20:03 |
| replaceafill | i didnt commit yesterday | 20:03 |
| Lumiere | hmm | 20:04 |
| replaceafill | is in my new branch? | 20:04 |
| replaceafill | or trunk? | 20:04 |
| Lumiere | branch | 20:04 |
| replaceafill | r1587 | jstraw | 2009-06-01 23:30:53 -0600 (lun 01 de jun de 2009) | 1 line | 20:05 |
| replaceafill | Fixed the header of a column in the All Competencies Completion Report and made the color coding legend shorter | 20:05 |
| Lumiere | yea | 20:05 |
| replaceafill | ah yes, that's mine | 20:05 |
| Lumiere | I am wondering how it happened | 20:05 |
| replaceafill | sorry, i couldnt connect from home to svn.schooltool.org | 20:05 |
| Lumiere | ah :) | 20:05 |
| Lumiere | where did I save my password | 20:05 |
| replaceafill | i logged in to the cando server and applied my patch and push the changes | 20:06 |
| replaceafill | but i didnt check it was your user! | 20:06 |
| Lumiere | interesting | 20:06 |
| Lumiere | I'll figure it out later | 20:06 |
| replaceafill | cause i did the checkout! | 20:06 |
| Lumiere | bbiab | 20:06 |
| replaceafill | ok | 20:06 |
| th1a | replaceafill: I think I can boil this down to a specific set of tasks. | 20:07 |
| th1a | Do you want to take a stab at estimating development time? | 20:08 |
| th1a | (after I summarize it)? | 20:09 |
| th1a | That is, do you want to do an informal quote for them? | 20:09 |
| replaceafill | of course | 20:09 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:09 |
| replaceafill | i'm jobless now :( so i'm free for some work | 20:10 |
| th1a | I also have no idea at this point when they'll know about the grant or when the work will be due. I sent an email asking about that this morning. | 20:10 |
| th1a | Ah... are you involuntarily jobless? | 20:10 |
| replaceafill | 50-50 :/ | 20:10 |
| th1a | OK. | 20:10 |
| replaceafill | i didnt like the job much | 20:10 |
| replaceafill | and they didnt have much money | 20:11 |
| th1a | Well, there are SchoolTool opportunities coming in now... | 20:11 |
| replaceafill | crossing my fingers for them :) | 20:11 |
| th1a | I need to write a "This Week in SchoolTool" post because a number of interesting things came in this week. | 20:11 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Just forwarded something else to you. | 20:12 |
| replaceafill | checking... | 20:12 |
| th1a | Forwarded a few more emails about the SA contact. | 20:15 |
| replaceafill | th1a, is schooltool used in europe? | 20:16 |
| th1a | Not yet. | 20:16 |
| th1a | Also: http://ikamvayouth.org | 20:17 |
| replaceafill | yes i found it :) | 20:17 |
| replaceafill | my country could learn a few lessons from africa :( | 20:18 |
| th1a | Actually, I hadn't looked up the website, so I'd better read up on that for a few minutes. | 20:19 |
| replaceafill | "the nightmare of spreasheets" :D | 20:21 |
| th1a | That's our target audience. | 20:21 |
| th1a | That's exactly who can benefit most. | 20:22 |
| replaceafill | holly crap: input data using mobile phones! | 20:22 |
| th1a | Do you have any better idea than phone-optimized web pages? | 20:22 |
| th1a | We can't do an app for every type of phone. | 20:22 |
| replaceafill | no, i've never done that | 20:27 |
| replaceafill | that could keep me up at night :) | 20:27 |
| th1a | Phone apps or web pages? | 20:28 |
| replaceafill | phone apps | 20:28 |
| th1a | Yeah. I actually played around with Python on the Nokia Series 60 for a while. | 20:29 |
| replaceafill | th1a, what's this quote to include in the proposal? | 20:29 |
| th1a | Well, what's in the doc, I guess plus the phone input which isn't in the doc. | 20:30 |
| th1a | Note that these don't have to necessarily be customizable changes that would go directly into trunk. | 20:30 |
| th1a | We'd do this like the SLA stuff, local customizations that'd be rolled in later if it makes sense. | 20:30 |
| replaceafill | yes, i was thinking of a module or something, right? | 20:30 |
| th1a | Yes. | 20:31 |
| th1a | We'll just need to make it .deb installable. | 20:31 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 20:36 |
| Lumiere | th1a: you'll want to write a new skin for phones | 20:37 |
| th1a | Something like that. | 20:37 |
| Lumiere | that limits the types of things that can be done | 20:37 |
| * th1a has given up on trying to understand the Zope 3 terminology for presentation. | 20:37 | |
| replaceafill | :) | 20:38 |
| Lumiere | and provides a better interface (as a cellphone-web user... it can be a full webpage, it just needs to be light on imgs and use as little layout as possible | 20:38 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Can you see the SA Estimate doc? | 20:38 |
| th1a | I don't use Google Docs much... when does it update to you? | 20:38 |
| replaceafill | at first i thought i was empty | 20:39 |
| replaceafill | let me check now | 20:39 |
| Lumiere | it will be almost instantly | 20:39 |
| th1a | Do I have to hit save? | 20:40 |
| th1a | Or is this like Gobby? | 20:40 |
| Lumiere | th1a: it is like gobby | 20:40 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i see it | 20:40 |
| replaceafill | Tasks by SchoolTool Component | 20:40 |
| Lumiere | it will update every few seconds | 20:40 |
| Lumiere | the spreadsheet is a little slower | 20:40 |
| th1a | Aha! Being able to make teachers part of sections may pay off here! | 20:41 |
| th1a | Since we have to take attendance for the volunteers. | 20:41 |
| th1a | They can just be modeled as a section themselves. | 20:42 |
| Lumiere | they should be sections, just with no grade reporting | 20:42 |
| Lumiere | wait | 20:42 |
| Lumiere | they can use grades too | 20:42 |
| th1a | I I just invited you to look at the requirements doc, Lumiere. | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | k | 20:47 |
| Lumiere | *comments* | 20:49 |
| Lumiere | btw... ctrl-m -> insert comment | 20:49 |
| replaceafill | nice :) | 20:49 |
| Lumiere | th1a: that is impressive | 20:50 |
| th1a | What? | 20:50 |
| Lumiere | the requirements | 20:50 |
| th1a | In what sense? | 20:50 |
| th1a | In the "they seem to know what they're doing" sense? | 20:50 |
| Lumiere | yea (in the 'we know what we want' sense) and in the good things for a school to have | 20:51 |
| Lumiere | in a lot of cases | 20:51 |
| th1a | Much more together than the US school we went through this with a couple weeks ago. ;-) | 20:51 |
| th1a | Where do you think we should store the "subject worked on" "subject requested for next session" data. | 20:55 |
| th1a | ? | 20:55 |
| th1a | It is a natural fit for the journal, the only problem is that you currently can only store Absence/Tardy *or* a score in the journal. | 20:56 |
| replaceafill | journal? | 20:56 |
| th1a | Attendance. | 20:57 |
| th1a | You might need to look at it. ;-) | 20:57 |
| th1a | The thing is that the journal automatically makes a cell for each meeting of the class. | 20:59 |
| th1a | The gradebook doesn't. | 20:59 |
| Lumiere | th1a: uh what are those fields holding? | 21:00 |
| replaceafill | text? | 21:00 |
| Lumiere | I meant what the context of the information is | 21:00 |
| th1a | Right now, you put in an 'a' for absent, 't' for tardy, and a digit for a score. | 21:01 |
| th1a | Or a digit, I should say. | 21:01 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I meant for the "subject worked on/requested" | 21:01 |
| th1a | You get one byte per class meeting, essentially. | 21:01 |
| Lumiere | what do those relate to | 21:01 |
| th1a | Well, if I understand correctly, this is tutoring, so you'd say, "I need help on math next week." | 21:02 |
| th1a | And the teacher would put down an "m" and then they'd know how many kids want math next week. | 21:02 |
| Lumiere | ah | 21:02 |
| Lumiere | that makes sense for the journal | 21:03 |
| th1a | Yeah, it just will take a little more customization than I'd like. | 21:03 |
| Lumiere | I would need to work through the UI but it does seem like a sane place | 21:03 |
| * Lumiere wonders if we could make a separate view that extended journal but stored separately | 21:04 | |
| th1a | Like most of these things, we could make it work now essentially for free, but spend some money to make it easier and smoother. | 21:04 |
| Lumiere | to make it a smaller change | 21:04 |
| th1a | This would also be the main view we'd want a phone-optimized form for as well. | 21:04 |
| th1a | replaceafill: Is the above making any sense to you replaceafill? | 21:09 |
| replaceafill | yes | 21:09 |
| replaceafill | i just was thinking about extending the journal | 21:09 |
| th1a | Actually, I may be overstating the problem... | 21:09 |
| krushik | btw, do you plan to introduce messaging between schooltool accounts? | 21:10 |
| krushik | hi all) | 21:10 |
| th1a | I don't really know how it handles tardies. | 21:10 |
| th1a | hi krushik. | 21:10 |
| th1a | Actually, CanDo does that already. | 21:10 |
| replaceafill | will look at it | 21:10 |
| th1a | Well, it has forums. | 21:10 |
| th1a | Also, a student is working on a component that works kind of like Google Answers. | 21:11 |
| th1a | replaceafill: I guess the current journal has the same problem, you need to record the tardy and you also might give him or her a score. | 21:11 |
| th1a | Although you've still got the extra bit for "next week's request" | 21:12 |
| replaceafill | yes i was thinking the same | 21:12 |
| replaceafill | how would you do that? | 21:12 |
| th1a | I'm not even sure how it is implemented now. | 21:12 |
| replaceafill | i can check that and let you know | 21:12 |
| krushik | that was the first question from teachers to whom I did show schooltool (about marks of tardies) | 21:13 |
| krushik | th1a, ok, I should try to deploy CanDo, thanks | 21:14 |
| th1a | krushik: We'll have .debs for it soon. | 21:14 |
| replaceafill | krushik, you could check http://www.careercenter.arlington.k12.va.us/cando/tutorials08/section_forum/section_forum.htm | 21:16 |
| replaceafill | krushik, and http://www.careercenter.arlington.k12.va.us/cando/tutorials08/student_messages/student_messages.htm | 21:17 |
| *** jcrowley has joined #schooltool | 21:23 | |
| th1a | Oh, they also need to track the type of session (homework, fundamentals, tutoring). | 21:23 |
| th1a | So yeah, that's going to end up being pretty custom. | 21:23 |
| th1a | All the basic machinery that runs the journal will work, but you're going to have to store three more bits. | 21:24 |
| th1a | bytes. | 21:24 |
| replaceafill | and some kind of programme (MIE/HIV/CG) | 21:24 |
| Lumiere | th1a: yea | 21:24 |
| th1a | Look at what I just wrote under "Gradebook-ish" | 21:30 |
| th1a | A lot of this will be good for quick Grokking. | 21:32 |
| th1a | Is what I'm writing making sense? | 21:43 |
| replaceafill | "and take different internal tests" :O | 21:48 |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 21:48 | |
| th1a | You can still use the gradebook activities object, I'd think. | 21:51 |
| replaceafill | different activities for different students? | 21:52 |
| th1a | What's missing from the list now? | 21:52 |
| th1a | replaceafill: It looks that way. | 21:52 |
| th1a | You may have to get up early tomorrow morning and Skype South Africa... | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | :| | 21:53 |
| replaceafill | cool | 21:53 |
| jelkner | how are you feeling, man? | 21:55 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, had three near death experiences! | 21:56 |
| jelkner | what? | 21:56 |
| replaceafill | i've learned to breath without air :/ | 21:56 |
| jelkner | what? | 21:56 |
| jelkner | what happened? | 21:57 |
| replaceafill | at the morning, when i just wake up, my throat just closes | 21:57 |
| jelkner | alergies? | 21:58 |
| replaceafill | i went to the doctor yesterday and she told me it's lots of phlegm | 21:59 |
| replaceafill | that i cant spit | 21:59 |
| jelkner | people can have reactions like that when they are alergic to something | 21:59 |
| jelkner | throat swells up | 21:59 |
| jelkner | lots of phlegm | 22:00 |
| jelkner | are you ok? | 22:00 |
| replaceafill | kind of :/ | 22:00 |
| jelkner | you're way to young to be burying you man! | 22:00 |
| jelkner | take care of yourself! | 22:00 |
| replaceafill | i was really depressed in the weekend | 22:00 |
| replaceafill | thinking of my future kid and all that | 22:01 |
| replaceafill | but, well, i'm still alive :) | 22:01 |
| jelkner | do you have a serious condition? | 22:01 |
| jelkner | or is this something temporary? | 22:01 |
| jelkner | what is it? | 22:01 |
| replaceafill | doctor thinks is something temporary | 22:02 |
| replaceafill | but since i havent had medical insurance for the last two years, my blood pressure is at the roof now :/ | 22:02 |
| jelkner | no medical insurance! | 22:02 |
| replaceafill | nope | 22:02 |
| jelkner | damn, i thought only gringos lived in a country uncivilized enough to allow its citizens not to be protected like that! | 22:03 |
| replaceafill | welcome to el salvador! :D | 22:03 |
| jelkner | hopefully the new government will change that | 22:04 |
| replaceafill | thank god for my cando/schooltool income :) | 22:04 |
| replaceafill | i could pay for the doctor and medicines | 22:05 |
| th1a | Speaking of which, we need to figure out this proposal. | 22:05 |
| jelkner | which proposal? | 22:05 |
| replaceafill | ah sorry | 22:05 |
| jelkner | i really hope we can get the NFS grant | 22:05 |
| jelkner | which would give you a full time job for 3 years | 22:06 |
| th1a | http://ikamvayouth.org is writing a grant including SchoolTool... due tomorrow of course. | 22:06 |
| jelkner | but that won't start until next January *if* we get it | 22:06 |
| replaceafill | th1a, south africa time is 8 hours forward | 22:06 |
| th1a | Yeah, I keep forgetting that. | 22:06 |
| *** jcrowley has quit IRC | 22:07 | |
| replaceafill | well i always stay up late if they want to meet in "their" morning time :) | 22:07 |
| th1a | Is my summary missing anything? | 22:10 |
| replaceafill | th1a, i dont think so | 22:11 |
| replaceafill | the community characteristics is just data about where the school is located, right? | 22:11 |
| th1a | I think so. | 22:12 |
| th1a | But you need to track it by year. | 22:12 |
| th1a | So it won't just be one object. | 22:12 |
| replaceafill | yes, keep a record | 22:13 |
| th1a | Overall, this'll be a great test of rapid SchoolTool development with Grok. | 22:13 |
| replaceafill | ah! we're grokking it?!?!? | 22:13 |
| th1a | I would. | 22:13 |
| replaceafill | nice! | 22:14 |
| th1a | These kinds of things which are really just simple objects to track some attributes should be perfect for Grok. | 22:14 |
| *** jelkner has quit IRC | 22:16 | |
| replaceafill | th1a, what's the meaning of the three years of code maintenance? | 22:17 |
| replaceafill | like support time for them? | 22:17 |
| th1a | Well, more specifically making sure it works with future versions of SchoolTool. | 22:23 |
| th1a | And general bugfixing, I'd say. | 22:24 |
| th1a | I'm not exactly sure what level of support they have in mind though. | 22:24 |
| th1a | I don't think this is what you'd think of as a "support contract" though. | 22:24 |
| replaceafill | ok | 22:24 |
| th1a | More insurance against them being stuck on a three year old incompatible code base. | 22:25 |
| replaceafill | i think everything in the Monitoring doc is in the estimate | 22:26 |
| Lumiere | yea... it's a *don't do anything that will get us screwed in the short term, because we won't have money for it* | 22:26 |
| th1a | Well, now you have to make it an "estimate." ;-) | 22:28 |
| replaceafill | hhmm | 22:29 |
| replaceafill | two things im worried about, the phones and the achievement record | 22:31 |
| th1a | I really only think the phone interface will be needed for the journal. | 22:33 |
| th1a | That's how I'd estimate it. | 22:34 |
| th1a | For that you'd want it to only show fields relevant to the current day. | 22:34 |
| th1a | No big header/footer. | 22:34 |
| th1a | Probably not javascript. | 22:34 |
| th1a | Appropriate CSS. | 22:35 |
| *** phufford has joined #schooltool | 22:37 | |
| replaceafill | th1a, is there a development time limit for this? | 22:39 |
| replaceafill | i mean, like "we have to do it in a month" or something like that | 22:39 |
| th1a | Well, that's what I asked about this morning, but I guess it was too late to get a response. | 22:39 |
| th1a | Perhaps I should send out an email, you should figure out as much as you can, and then talk in the morning/before you go to bed. | 22:40 |
| th1a | In particular, with a grant you don't know how long it will be before it is approved. | 22:40 |
| replaceafill | ah ok | 22:40 |
| th1a | They do seem pretty well established, so presumably they have some chance of getting a grant. | 22:40 |
| replaceafill | he says August/October, right? | 22:41 |
| th1a | Hm? | 22:41 |
| th1a | Perhaps I missed it. | 22:41 |
| phufford | replaceafill: Hi | 22:41 |
| replaceafill | "I'm looking for the | 22:41 |
| replaceafill | work to be done around Aug/Oct" | 22:41 |
| replaceafill | i wonder from august to october | 22:41 |
| replaceafill | or august OR october | 22:42 |
| th1a | Oh, I see. | 22:42 |
| th1a | Yes, maybe you should just send her a "broad estimate" today. | 22:42 |
| replaceafill | oh is a "her" :D | 22:43 |
| th1a | Probably whatever they're doing for achievement tracking now is just a spreadsheet, so it is probably not particularly complicated. | 22:44 |
| th1a | If you assume everything uses the same score system it should be pretty easy. | 22:44 |
| th1a | If everything is a 0-100 score, with different metadata, that's pretty easy. | 22:45 |
| th1a | I'll also tell you the same thing I told moquist when we were trying to come up with a crazy estimate on two days notice, | 22:48 |
| replaceafill | yes? | 22:49 |
| th1a | if you get in a bind -- particularly if you run into limitations in SchoolTool core -- I can back you up with some of my development time. | 22:49 |
| th1a | Particularly since there are things here I'd like to have in SchoolTool core anyhow. | 22:50 |
| th1a | But that gives you a little insurance to leap into the unknown. | 22:50 |
| replaceafill | :) | 22:50 |
| th1a | Obviously if this goes forward it is very much in my interest to see it succeed. | 22:50 |
| replaceafill | how much time do u think it will take to an average schooltool developer? working full time | 22:50 |
| replaceafill | i suck at estimating :/ | 22:51 |
| th1a | OK, let me see... | 22:51 |
| replaceafill | cause in cando, david always tell me do this, do that and i just do it :) | 22:51 |
| th1a | A month. | 22:52 |
| th1a | For you. | 22:52 |
| th1a | That's to treat this as a customer job, not "everything could be checked into SchoolTool trunk as is" mode. | 22:53 |
| th1a | If you know what I mean. | 22:53 |
| replaceafill | yes | 22:53 |
| replaceafill | like the module we were talking about, right_ | 22:54 |
| th1a | And, say, demographics, if you left that for last you could make something work in a couple days. | 22:54 |
| th1a | Or you could spend a week or more to polish it. | 22:54 |
| th1a | But again, perhaps I'll pay for the polish later. | 22:55 |
| th1a | I think they'll be happy initially with "it works." | 22:55 |
| replaceafill | so, first make it work for them | 22:55 |
| replaceafill | ok | 22:55 |
| replaceafill | so, should i send your SA Estimate text and the estimated time to Joy? | 22:56 |
| th1a | I guess so. | 22:57 |
| replaceafill | cool, will do that now then, and will try to contact her tomorrow morning (their morning) | 22:57 |
| th1a | OK, I'll send out an introductory email. | 22:59 |
| th1a | OK email sent, I cc:ed replaceafill. | 23:03 |
| replaceafill | thanks | 23:05 |
| * th1a has to go to the grocery store. | 23:11 | |
| th1a | Thanks replaceafill! | 23:11 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!