| *** jeiworth has quit IRC | 01:33 | |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 01:41 | |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 01:41 | |
| *** phufford_ has quit IRC | 02:00 | |
| *** jelkner has quit IRC | 03:15 | |
| *** replaceafill has quit IRC | 03:17 | |
| Lumiere | BillyD1234: nope, but maybe if you send a note to schooltoolers jelkner will make some | 03:33 |
|---|---|---|
| *** jeiworth has joined #schooltool | 03:48 | |
| *** moquist has quit IRC | 04:24 | |
| *** jeiworth has quit IRC | 07:11 | |
| *** moquist has joined #schooltool | 08:00 | |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 10:57 | |
| *** BillyD1234 has quit IRC | 11:44 | |
| *** BillyD1234 has joined #schooltool | 13:09 | |
| BillyD1234 | schooltoolers a bot? Not seeing an email addy to send requests to on the website. Do you have a link to a form/email? Thanks for the reply off to work. | 13:10 |
| *** yvl has joined #schooltool | 13:44 | |
| Lumiere | BillyD1234: it is a launchpad mailing list | 13:50 |
| Lumiere | I'll poke th1a about getting it on the website | 13:51 |
| Lumiere | launchpad.net/~schooltoolers | 13:51 |
| *** povbot has joined #schooltool | 15:31 | |
| *** povbot` has quit IRC | 15:34 | |
| *** menesis has joined #schooltool | 15:35 | |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 16:25 | |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 16:37 | |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 16:39 | |
| *** jeiworth has joined #schooltool | 16:42 | |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 17:31 | |
| jelkner | th1a: good morning tom! | 17:51 |
| jelkner | i had a great conversation yesterday with moquist | 17:51 |
| jelkner | he cheered me up after our depressing visit to richmond | 17:52 |
| *** jelkner has quit IRC | 17:53 | |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 17:58 | |
| th1a | Yeah... I considered bringing up that angle to brighten up the meeting a bit, but I was getting tired. | 17:59 |
| jelkner | th1a: i don't think it would have helped | 18:00 |
| jelkner | they were pretty unreceptive to new ideas | 18:01 |
| jelkner | th1a: did moquist reach you yesterday? | 18:02 |
| jelkner | he told me he was going to call you while you were on your way to the airport | 18:02 |
| jelkner | oh, and i have a gradebook issue i need to discuss with you | 18:03 |
| th1a | I had my phone off. | 18:03 |
| jelkner | is now a good time to talk gradebook? | 18:04 |
| th1a | Well, my flight was delayed and Julia was wide awake at 4:00 AM, so... | 18:04 |
| jelkner | you're tired | 18:04 |
| jelkner | i can wait | 18:05 |
| jelkner | but not *too* long ;-) | 18:05 |
| jelkner | since i have to produce end of year reports soon | 18:05 |
| th1a | It can't be too important or you would have thought about it yesterday. | 18:05 |
| jelkner | i did | 18:05 |
| jelkner | i talked to alan | 18:05 |
| jelkner | and mentioned it to you | 18:05 |
| jelkner | but i thought you said we needed to discuss it later | 18:05 |
| th1a | What do you mean by "produce end of year reports" | 18:05 |
| jelkner | i been using the gradebook for 4 quarters | 18:06 |
| jelkner | i need to produce a final grade summary to hand in | 18:06 |
| jelkner | so that students get grades for the courses they took | 18:06 |
| jelkner | the problem is | 18:06 |
| th1a | You literally need a piece of paper? | 18:06 |
| jelkner | no | 18:06 |
| jelkner | alan wrote a nice grade summary view last year | 18:07 |
| jelkner | my problem now | 18:07 |
| jelkner | is that when i changed the way grades are displayed in 4th quarter | 18:07 |
| jelkner | it effects all the previous quarters | 18:07 |
| jelkner | so students who had a 78% (C) | 18:08 |
| jelkner | are now showing B | 18:08 |
| th1a | This is what I think you should do -- get Alan to write a script to convert all the old grades to the new score system in your DB. | 18:08 |
| jelkner | let's talk about this when you've had some rest | 18:08 |
| th1a | I thought about it yesterday. | 18:09 |
| jelkner | i don't want to change the data from previous quarters | 18:09 |
| jelkner | so an 8 of 10 should still be 8 of 10 | 18:09 |
| jelkner | i just want the final grades to show up right | 18:10 |
| th1a | What's the difference between the old grades and the new grades? | 18:10 |
| jelkner | the new grades use the 4, 3, 2, 1, 0 system | 18:10 |
| jelkner | so 12.5 and below is an E | 18:11 |
| jelkner | 12.5 to 27.5 is a D | 18:11 |
| jelkner | 27.5 to 52.5 is a C | 18:11 |
| th1a | What did we change? | 18:11 |
| jelkner | i used the new configurable column to the left of the name | 18:12 |
| jelkner | to show grades that way | 18:12 |
| jelkner | i wanted to use it for this quarter | 18:12 |
| jelkner | in the future there is the more general case to consider | 18:12 |
| jelkner | rubric based assignments graded that way | 18:12 |
| th1a | Why can't you use it in the previous quarters? | 18:12 |
| jelkner | because previous quarters already have grades | 18:13 |
| jelkner | i gave students who did nothing a 5 | 18:13 |
| th1a | But they're wrong now? | 18:13 |
| jelkner | of 10 | 18:13 |
| th1a | Oh, because it is not configurable per worksheet. | 18:13 |
| jelkner | since a 78 last quarter was a C | 18:13 |
| jelkner | they got a C on their report card | 18:13 |
| jelkner | but it now shows up as a B | 18:14 |
| jelkner | i don't want anything from the previous quarters to change | 18:14 |
| jelkner | i just want the 4th quarter to work with the new rubric grading scale | 18:14 |
| th1a | Here's the thing Jeff, I'm not going to do a general solution to this problem at this point, because this is a weird case. | 18:14 |
| jelkner | why is it a weird case? | 18:15 |
| th1a | People don't change their grading systems during the year. | 18:15 |
| jelkner | no | 18:15 |
| jelkner | but they would use mixed systems | 18:15 |
| jelkner | my rubric system | 18:15 |
| jelkner | works the way the app that david showed you yesterday (from his GMU class) | 18:16 |
| jelkner | works | 18:16 |
| jelkner | but for tests and quizzes | 18:16 |
| jelkner | a 90 to 100 is an A | 18:16 |
| jelkner | would still make sense | 18:16 |
| jelkner | so it is easy to see where you would want different grading scales for different kinds of assignments | 18:16 |
| th1a | It is not the right way to do it. | 18:18 |
| jelkner | that is, if we want assessment to be more meaningful | 18:18 |
| jelkner | what is the right way? | 18:18 |
| *** mgedmin has joined #schooltool | 18:18 | |
| th1a | The right way is the way you did it the previous terms. | 18:18 |
| jelkner | i see | 18:19 |
| th1a | Or some variation on that. | 18:19 |
| th1a | But regardless, if you'd been consistent the whole year everything would have been fine. | 18:19 |
| jelkner | our teaching practice should conform to our software | 18:19 |
| jelkner | not the other way around | 18:19 |
| th1a | My main point is that accomodating people changing systems in the middle of the year is not a common case. | 18:20 |
| jelkner | of course it isn't | 18:20 |
| jelkner | but i told you ahead of time i wanted to try this | 18:20 |
| jelkner | we discussed it at length | 18:21 |
| th1a | I think you should be able to come up with a reasonable work-around at this point. | 18:22 |
| jelkner | i agree | 18:22 |
| jelkner | a workaround now is best | 18:22 |
| jelkner | given time constraints | 18:22 |
| Lumiere | Depressing visit to richmond? | 18:24 |
| th1a | It was fine aside from the fact that nobody has any money. | 18:24 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: i was also disappointed with the way they handled it in the beginning | 18:26 |
| jelkner | it got better as the day went on | 18:26 |
| Lumiere | I could have told you they had no money | 18:27 |
| jelkner | and several good things came out of it | 18:27 |
| jelkner | but they started out very defensive (probably because they had no money) | 18:27 |
| Lumiere | I'll need to stop by and chat with you and dwelsh (probably tomorrow) | 18:27 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: who was coming out defensive | 18:27 |
| th1a | It did start out emphasizing the negative. | 18:27 |
| jelkner | the CTE folks | 18:28 |
| jelkner | several complaints about the pilot | 18:28 |
| th1a | It was like, "OK, let's jump straight to what people DIDN'T like." | 18:28 |
| jelkner | but i've read the feedback carefully, which is *very* positive over all | 18:28 |
| jelkner | exactly | 18:28 |
| th1a | Luckily, we've all got positive enough self-images to take the lack of praise. | 18:29 |
| jelkner | instead of, "we're sorry to say we don't have any money, but you guys did a great job" | 18:29 |
| jelkner | instead, they went on the attack | 18:29 |
| jelkner | as if to justify not having money | 18:29 |
| Lumiere | well, they probably saw it more as a work session then a presentation | 18:29 |
| jelkner | it was weird | 18:29 |
| Lumiere | also, DOE stuff tends to start and get the negative out of the way first | 18:30 |
| jelkner | so basically, CanDo is on hold | 18:30 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: I sort-of expected it | 18:30 |
| jelkner | the only good news (and is seems to be *very* good news) is coming from california | 18:30 |
| Lumiere | they want it, they are not in a position to do anything at all | 18:30 |
| th1a | Actually, essentially we're getting phase 2 pilot, where the goal is districts self-hosting CanDo. | 18:31 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: take it as a positive that they put it on hold | 18:31 |
| jelkner | looks like Chris Lehman may get his single sign-on system after all | 18:31 |
| jelkner | that's true too | 18:31 |
| Lumiere | th1a: that's ****ing awesome actually | 18:31 |
| Lumiere | that's far beyond what I was hoping for | 18:31 |
| jelkner | an important opportunity to network | 18:31 |
| jelkner | and build community | 18:31 |
| jelkner | in support of ST | 18:31 |
| th1a | jelkner: Actually single-sign on has been working great for SLA all year. | 18:31 |
| jelkner | hmmm... | 18:31 |
| th1a | Well, almost all year. | 18:32 |
| th1a | After a slow start. | 18:32 |
| Lumiere | th1a: I'd like to see us get a SSO module globally in 2009.10 | 18:32 |
| Lumiere | so we can work with moodle/w-e to get it to work out of the box(ish) | 18:32 |
| th1a | It would be easier if there was a widely used SSO standard amongst our users. | 18:34 |
| Lumiere | it would be easier if there were any widely used sso standards | 18:37 |
| Lumiere | that were easier to use then kerberos ;) | 18:37 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: i'm going to have to talk to you about setting up an integrated ST, moodle, and mahara sytem for me | 18:37 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: I'm going to have to wait for moquist to write documentation for me | 18:37 |
| jelkner | moquist says that should be ready for september use | 18:37 |
| jelkner | totally | 18:37 |
| Lumiere | provide me the steps to install and I will | 18:38 |
| jelkner | cool | 18:38 |
| jelkner | that will happen in august | 18:38 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: actually, I'll probably want to do the ST/mahara for the global CanDo instance too | 18:38 |
| Lumiere | there are a lot of people who build digital-portfolios | 18:39 |
| jelkner | yes | 18:41 |
| jelkner | we've been talking about that since the early days of cando | 18:41 |
| moquist | If everything goes according to plan, we should have ST+Moodle with SSO, enrollment tracking, and gradebook transfer by the fall. | 18:47 |
| moquist | Lumiere: If everyting goes according to plan, the ST/Moodle integration will be no more complicated than the Moodle/Mahara integration as documented here: https://eduforge.org/docman/view.php/176/3200/Mahoodle.pdf | 18:48 |
| moquist | In fact, it will not only be no more complicated, it will look very, very similar to that. :) | 18:48 |
| moquist | There will be a few more config options, of course, because we'll be doing more than SSO. | 18:49 |
| Lumiere | moquist: well, my thing is I can do moodle... but the county uses Bb | 19:12 |
| Lumiere | so my preference is to do just ST+mahara | 19:13 |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 19:20 | |
| jelkner | Lumiere: still here? | 19:33 |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 19:43 | |
| moquist | Lumiere: Oh, I probably misread above. I was reading quickly. | 19:52 |
| moquist | Lumiere: Mahara should come *almost* for free once ST+Moodle is going. | 19:53 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: ping | 20:41 |
| Lumiere | hi | 20:41 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: I was in a testing room | 20:41 |
| Lumiere | then driving out to herndon | 20:41 |
| jelkner | how is all that going? | 20:41 |
| Lumiere | great | 20:41 |
| Lumiere | but it is tiring | 20:41 |
| jelkner | when will you have some time to talk? | 20:41 |
| jelkner | i was just talking to my colleague, ann kennedy | 20:42 |
| Lumiere | I am hoping to be at ACC tomorrow | 20:42 |
| jelkner | she wants to start learning moodle | 20:42 |
| jelkner | can we get our instance running? | 20:42 |
| Lumiere | it is | 20:42 |
| jelkner | is it one on which i can have admin? | 20:42 |
| jelkner | or should i run a separate one? | 20:43 |
| jelkner | i could have hgrover set it up | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | you can have admin | 20:43 |
| jelkner | who is using it now? | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | or at least course creator | 20:43 |
| Lumiere | dwelsh | 20:43 |
| jelkner | maybe i should ask hgrover to set one up | 20:43 |
| jelkner | for two reasons: | 20:43 |
| jelkner | 1. he would learn how | 20:44 |
| jelkner | 2. i can experiment over the summer with plugins and addons without worrying about breaking it | 20:44 |
| jelkner | we can talk tomorrow | 20:44 |
| Lumiere | he should learn to set one up | 20:44 |
| jelkner | yes | 20:44 |
| Lumiere | he should not run that as your production one | 20:44 |
| jelkner | that's what i'm saying | 20:44 |
| jelkner | of course | 20:44 |
| jelkner | but right now we don't need a production one | 20:45 |
| Lumiere | that way you can do #2 without ****ing your courses up | 20:45 |
| jelkner | (not til august) | 20:45 |
| jelkner | right now we need to play and learn | 20:45 |
| jelkner | yes, i agree | 20:45 |
| jelkner | we won't setup our courses til august | 20:45 |
| Lumiere | as long as you're not needing plugins | 20:45 |
| jelkner | well, we will make a list of what we want to use | 20:45 |
| jelkner | based on our experiments | 20:45 |
| Lumiere | you can make a test course on gctaa's moodle | 20:46 |
| jelkner | i want to look at the assessment items | 20:46 |
| jelkner | and explore all the different kinds there are | 20:46 |
| jelkner | out there | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | you are assigned as admin of it | 20:46 |
| Lumiere | see msg for uri | 20:46 |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 21:04 | |
| *** menesis1 has joined #schooltool | 21:04 | |
| *** menesis1 is now known as menesis | 21:04 | |
| *** aelkner has joined #schooltool | 21:23 | |
| jelkner | yo bro! | 21:25 |
| jelkner | th1a says we need an ugly hack just to get me through this year | 21:25 |
| aelkner | yo back at you | 21:25 |
| jelkner | next year hopefully we can do it right | 21:25 |
| aelkner | explain | 21:25 |
| th1a | Realistically, you just need to make your grading consistent for the purpose of calculating the final grades. | 21:26 |
| aelkner | meaning | 21:27 |
| jelkner | well, there is not time to solve the problem in a good way | 21:27 |
| th1a | There are a variety of things that could be done. | 21:28 |
| jelkner | we just need some way for me to generate my final grade report | 21:28 |
| * Lumiere boils it down to some sort of hack+view to make all the grades conform to 1 standard (or be understood in the same way) and a view to make the score come out the right way | 21:29 | |
| Lumiere | so that jelkner can take the view and enter all the data to eS+ | 21:29 |
| th1a | You could pop open two views of the last semester. | 21:30 |
| th1a | Change the scores to match the old system in one. | 21:30 |
| th1a | Submit. | 21:30 |
| th1a | Calculate the final grades. | 21:30 |
| th1a | Go back to the second unchanged window. | 21:30 |
| th1a | Submit. | 21:30 |
| th1a | Back to normal. | 21:30 |
| aelkner | i need some context here | 21:31 |
| aelkner | for instance, "old system" | 21:31 |
| th1a | 6-10 scoring? | 21:31 |
| aelkner | what's that? | 21:31 |
| th1a | If I understand correctly at this point, the first three quarters were scored 6-10 and the last one 1-5. | 21:32 |
| th1a | Each assignment, that is. | 21:32 |
| jelkner | the first 3 quarters used a 0 to 100 system | 21:32 |
| aelkner | jelkner: did you create activities that had minum 6 and max 10? | 21:32 |
| jelkner | with 90 to 100 being A | 21:32 |
| jelkner | 80 to 89 being B | 21:33 |
| th1a | OK. | 21:33 |
| jelkner | this quarter | 21:33 |
| jelkner | i'm trying to use rubric grading | 21:33 |
| jelkner | and i didn't give any tests or quizzes | 21:33 |
| *** menesis has quit IRC | 21:33 | |
| jelkner | to all assignments were on a 0 to 4 scale | 21:33 |
| jelkner | 0 being E and 4 being A | 21:34 |
| jelkner | aelkner figured that the easiest way to make this work | 21:34 |
| jelkner | was to compute the percent (as always) | 21:34 |
| jelkner | and change the scale to show 0 to < 12.5 as E | 21:34 |
| jelkner | 12.5 to < 27.5 as D | 21:35 |
| jelkner | 27.5 to < 52.5 as C | 21:35 |
| jelkner | 52.5 to < 77.5 as B | 21:35 |
| jelkner | and 77.5 and above as A | 21:35 |
| jelkner | that is working | 21:35 |
| jelkner | but now my grades for the last three quarters are using the new scale | 21:36 |
| jelkner | which i don't want | 21:36 |
| aelkner | jelkner's arithmentic is off | 21:36 |
| jelkner | 87.5 and up is A | 21:36 |
| jelkner | that's right | 21:36 |
| aelkner | 12.5, 37.5, 62.5, 87.5 | 21:36 |
| th1a | What do you even imagine the calculation for the final grade being? | 21:36 |
| jelkner | what do you mean? | 21:36 |
| jelkner | sorry i screwed up the arithmetic | 21:37 |
| th1a | Convert the letters back into 1-4 number range and then average those? | 21:37 |
| jelkner | the problem is only this: | 21:37 |
| jelkner | the letters for the previous quarters are now wrong | 21:37 |
| jelkner | otherwise the final calculation would be the same as last year | 21:38 |
| jelkner | the problem now is just that i want to configure left column by worksheet, not teacher | 21:38 |
| th1a | So is the final calcuation supposed to convert letters back into numbers and average them? | 21:39 |
| jelkner | yes | 21:39 |
| jelkner | the final calculation works the same way that 4th quarter works | 21:39 |
| aelkner | the final calculation has until now always been a hard-coded conversion | 21:39 |
| aelkner | of the average of all worksheets to A, B, C, D, E | 21:40 |
| jelkner | yes | 21:40 |
| aelkner | according to the 90+ A rule | 21:40 |
| jelkner | no | 21:40 |
| jelkner | not true | 21:40 |
| jelkner | an A and an E is a C | 21:40 |
| aelkner | ah, sorry, i just looked at the code | 21:41 |
| aelkner | 90+ = 4 | 21:41 |
| aelkner | 60+ = 1 | 21:41 |
| aelkner | <60 = 0 | 21:41 |
| aelkner | then average that all together | 21:42 |
| aelkner | then | 21:42 |
| aelkner | 4 = A, 3 = B, ertc. | 21:42 |
| th1a | I think jelkner might have to use his calculator. | 21:42 |
| th1a | And/or eyeballs. | 21:42 |
| th1a | To calculate the final grades. | 21:46 |
| th1a | Open a window with the correct 4th quarter grades. | 21:47 |
| th1a | In another window turn off the new scoring system for averages and then get the scores from the first three quarters and do the calculation of the final grade. | 21:47 |
| th1a | Usually you can do that in your head. | 21:47 |
| jelkner | at this point i just want to leave the data in "official" form | 21:48 |
| jelkner | so if you make it so i can enter the data by hand, fine | 21:49 |
| jelkner | since schooltool is the only gradebook i use | 21:49 |
| th1a | Which data? | 21:49 |
| jelkner | my gradebook | 21:49 |
| jelkner | which is in schooltool | 21:49 |
| jelkner | so i'll print it | 21:49 |
| jelkner | but i also need to save it | 21:50 |
| jelkner | it is the "official" record of my grades | 21:50 |
| th1a | You don't have to change the grades themselves -- you can just change the way the averages are calculated while you figure them out. | 21:51 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 21:53 | |
| jelkner | the problem is that i can't change the grades and then change them back | 21:54 |
| jelkner | since if someone challenges a grate | 21:54 |
| jelkner | grade | 21:54 |
| th1a | No -- you don't have to do that. | 21:54 |
| jelkner | dwelsh just called me down | 21:54 |
| jelkner | can we talk about this a bit later? | 21:54 |
| th1a | You just need to see the correct averages for each term and then calculate the final by hand. | 21:54 |
| jelkner | fine | 21:54 |
| th1a | That's the sanest solution. | 21:55 |
| jelkner | fine | 21:55 |
| *** jelkner has quit IRC | 21:58 | |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 21:59 | |
| *** jeiworth has quit IRC | 22:53 | |
| *** jelkner has quit IRC | 23:25 | |
| *** jelkner has joined #schooltool | 23:25 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!