| th1a | https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/ | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Lumiere | th1a: hmm? | 00:32 |
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| eferuzi | helo | 16:03 |
| th1a | eferuzi: Hi. | 16:03 |
| eferuzi | i am working on localising school tool in kiswahili | 16:03 |
| eferuzi | thla: how are you | 16:04 |
| th1a | Wow. Where is that spoken? | 16:04 |
| th1a | I'm fine. How are you? | 16:04 |
| eferuzi | in Tanzania, Kenya, Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, DRC | 16:04 |
| eferuzi | basically central africa | 16:04 |
| th1a | Ah. Do you work at an NGO or something? | 16:05 |
| eferuzi | at the moment no | 16:05 |
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| eferuzi | i have been working on FF3.5 and i start looking a Edubuntu and I liked SchoolTool | 16:06 |
| th1a | FF3.5? | 16:06 |
| eferuzi | Firefox 3.5 | 16:06 |
| th1a | Ah, right. | 16:07 |
| eferuzi | i am working with a team of tanzanians students that i have been assisting with linux and programing | 16:07 |
| eferuzi | www.linuxgroup.co.tz | 16:07 |
| th1a | (I asked if you were in an NGO because I forgot I asked you where the language was spoken not where you work) | 16:07 |
| th1a | Is Launchpad working for you? | 16:08 |
| eferuzi | well if we can get at NGO to give us a hand especially on distribution | 16:08 |
| eferuzi | well i have working with PO files so i downloaded the PO file and that is what i am using | 16:09 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:10 |
| th1a | Have you run into any specific problems? | 16:11 |
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| jelkner | hello from myrtle beach, sc | 16:31 |
| th1a | jelkner: You have a new person for your meeting: eferuzi. | 16:31 |
| Lumiere | hello from work | 16:31 |
| th1a | Although he may be afk. | 16:31 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: don't rub it in too badly :) | 16:31 |
| th1a | Are you on spring break jelkner? | 16:32 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: i'm working too (grades are due) | 16:32 |
| eferuzi | sorry | 16:32 |
| jelkner | just at a very leisurely pace ;-) | 16:32 |
| eferuzi | i was away | 16:32 |
| jelkner | th1a: yup | 16:32 |
| th1a | eferuzi: No problem. | 16:32 |
| eferuzi | thla: You have a new person for your meeting: eferuzi. | 16:32 |
| eferuzi | i am not following | 16:33 |
| eferuzi | i have not run into any problem till now | 16:33 |
| th1a | jelkner lobbied to have a "users meeting" at this time every week. | 16:33 |
| jelkner | that's why i'm here | 16:33 |
| th1a | So you're now attending the users meeting, eferuzi. | 16:33 |
| th1a | jelkner is your enthusiastic host. | 16:33 |
| jelkner | eferuzi: welcome! | 16:33 |
| Lumiere | too enthusiastic sometimes </sarcasm> | 16:34 |
| * th1a is the sometimes grumpy project manager. | 16:34 | |
| eferuzi | i am planning to spend the the whole easter and see if i can finish the localisation by end of this short holiday | 16:34 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:34 |
| * ignas is the reason why th1a is sometimes grumpy ;) | 16:34 | |
| eferuzi | what meeting | 16:34 |
| eferuzi | i am lost | 16:34 |
| th1a | eferuzi: Do you know if you got the translations from the development branch? | 16:34 |
| eferuzi | thla: i do not know | 16:35 |
| th1a | eferuzi: The "meeting" started here four minutes ago. ;-) | 16:35 |
| jelkner | eferuzi: there is a developer's meeting each monday at 9:30 EST | 16:35 |
| eferuzi | okay | 16:35 |
| eferuzi | so should logout and login later | 16:35 |
| jelkner | i used to attend those meetings looking to discuss schooltool from a user's perspective | 16:35 |
| eferuzi | or what must | 16:35 |
| th1a | Let me point you to the right place... | 16:35 |
| jelkner | i realized that was not the place for that | 16:35 |
| jelkner | so i proposed to our fearless leader that we add another meeting on tuesday for users | 16:36 |
| eferuzi | okay | 16:36 |
| ignas | th1a: don't think he has translations from the development branch | 16:36 |
| eferuzi | can i see that from the PO file i have | 16:36 |
| th1a | Probably from 2008.4, because that's where you're pointed by default. | 16:36 |
| th1a | We really should just be pointing people to trunk now, I think. | 16:37 |
| th1a | https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/development/+translations | 16:37 |
| th1a | Is that right, ignas? | 16:37 |
| jelkner | th1a: i would like to talk about gradebook / cando integration when you have a chance | 16:38 |
| ignas | kind of | 16:38 |
| ignas | it needs to be updated | 16:38 |
| ignas | but I will look at it today | 16:38 |
| Lumiere | th1a: are we going to take advandage of Rosetta's new bzr translation update stuff soon? | 16:38 |
| Lumiere | (or ignas) | 16:38 |
| ignas | we probably should be, but I have to find out how to use it, and how it works and whether it works | 16:39 |
| ignas | and remove some old templates | 16:39 |
| th1a | jelkner: Well, that's moving down my list of priorities for a while, unless you guys get some money. | 16:39 |
| jelkner | ok | 16:40 |
| jelkner | i'll wait then | 16:40 |
| jelkner | that sounds fair | 16:40 |
| th1a | I'm going to have to start thinking about our other users. | 16:40 |
| jelkner | cool | 16:41 |
| jelkner | speaking of that, we should start tracking our other users | 16:41 |
| jelkner | who are they? | 16:41 |
| jelkner | where are they? | 16:41 |
| th1a | ignas: Did you see my bug about round-tripping export/import spreadsheets? | 16:41 |
| jelkner | what kinds of schools are they using ST in? | 16:41 |
| ignas | not sure, not in the email i think | 16:41 |
| jelkner | how are they using it? | 16:41 |
| jelkner | i'd like to encourage folks to show up here and swap stories | 16:42 |
| th1a | People don't like to use IRC. | 16:42 |
| jelkner | and we should put something on the website like "Look whose using SchoolTool" | 16:42 |
| Lumiere | IRC is not great for that | 16:42 |
| jelkner | Lumiere: i don't know why you say that. | 16:43 |
| Lumiere | you'd be better off with a forum or the mailing list for swapping stories | 16:43 |
| Lumiere | jelkner: because *users* don't know what IRC is 99% of the time | 16:43 |
| th1a | ignas: I forgot to assign it: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/+bug/356403 | 16:43 |
| th1a | Yes, we need a forum. | 16:43 |
| Lumiere | th1a: invisionfree.com? | 16:43 |
| eferuzi | what is the marketing strategy for ST | 16:44 |
| th1a | Well, step 1, finish 1.0 (coming in two weeks). | 16:45 |
| eferuzi | i am working on a dissemination of firefox in Tanzania so i can include ST | 16:45 |
| ignas | Lumiere: can you point me at an example of a working forum in there? | 16:45 |
| th1a | eferuzi: Certainly supporting people like you who will be local advocates is a big part of it. | 16:46 |
| Lumiere | ignas: yea, let me see if I can find one :) | 16:46 |
| th1a | We aren't going to be running a global ad campaign. | 16:46 |
| th1a | Or a global business. | 16:46 |
| Lumiere | ignas: crap... all the ones I spend a lot of time at are locked to members only | 16:46 |
| eferuzi | the problem i have with Tanzania is that not all school have computers so i am hoping to start with those that have computers and see how it wiaks | 16:46 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:47 |
| Lumiere | ignas: Invision Power Board is what it is based on... it's the most stable forum software I've seen | 16:47 |
| ignas | th1a: as for the round trip export - it works for persons only at the moment, i did not have enough time to do the rest of the objects | 16:47 |
| th1a | We have some contacts at NGO's, UN agencies, etc. We just needed to get the software further along before we could push hard on that side. | 16:48 |
| th1a | ignas: So... what should someone do? | 16:48 |
| th1a | Basically you can use the spreadsheet for a clean start. | 16:49 |
| eferuzi | thla: what do you mean " We just needed to get the software further along " ? | 16:49 |
| Lumiere | ignas: if you want to look at a huge IPB... try community.910cmx.com | 16:49 |
| Lumiere | that community has like 200k posts | 16:49 |
| ignas | th1a: yes, only that at the moment, I can probably make terms/years update, but sections will be more tricky | 16:50 |
| ignas | th1a: will keep this feature in mind, not sure about time though | 16:50 |
| th1a | eferuzi: Well, it hasn't had all the necessary functionality. | 16:50 |
| th1a | We're just now getting all the pieces together. | 16:50 |
| Lumiere | eferuzi: School Information Systems are hugely complex | 16:50 |
| eferuzi | Lumiere + thla: i know and i must say i have respect for your team. and that is why i want to have it in kiswahili | 16:52 |
| * jelkner ... happy to see a new nick in the channel, goes back to his vacation. | 16:52 | |
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| th1a | ignas: Perhaps it would be helpful (and easy) to skip missing worksheets. | 16:53 |
| th1a | Then I could say "export the spreadsheet, change around persons, delete the other worksheets, reimport." | 16:54 |
| th1a | Which seems less clunky than "select all and delete the contents of the other worksheets." | 16:54 |
| ignas | th1a: it works that way | 16:54 |
| ignas | th1a: i mean - you can only import "persons" sheet IIRC | 16:55 |
| * Lumiere hates Bretford 18 carts... | 16:55 | |
| th1a | Hm? | 16:55 |
| ignas | if you can't - file it as a bug | 16:55 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:55 |
| * ignas goes to look | 16:55 | |
| ignas | yeah, i have a demographics.xls | 16:55 |
| th1a | I'll try it again. I got my files a little mixed up yesterday so I might have not been doing what I thought. | 16:55 |
| ignas | that only contains Persons sheet | 16:55 |
| ignas | and i think it works for me | 16:56 |
| th1a | I'll double check later. | 16:56 |
| ignas | thanks | 16:56 |
| th1a | eferuzi: Looking more closely at things, you definitely want to translate the 2008.04 templates, they are the most recent, and they are also the ones that Launchpad points you toward, so you've probably already got them. | 16:59 |
| th1a | https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool | 16:59 |
| Lumiere | th1a: and anything that hasn't changed would be automatically translated when we post development templates? | 17:00 |
| eferuzi | thla: i am looking at the development and i see there is more files than the 2008.4 is that correnct | 17:00 |
| Lumiere | yes | 17:01 |
| eferuzi | thla: so should we try and finish the 2008.4 or start working on the development | 17:01 |
| th1a | 2008.4. | 17:01 |
| th1a | They are actually newer. | 17:01 |
| th1a | Er. | 17:02 |
| th1a | Ah... | 17:02 |
| Lumiere | eferuzi: we're adding some packages from 2008.04 -> 2009.04, but if I remember correctly... launchpad should pull relevent translations from the 2008.04 list | 17:02 |
| eferuzi | okay | 17:03 |
| eferuzi | then that is okay | 17:03 |
| th1a | ignas: It looks like we haven't been manually uploading translations to the development series, right? | 17:04 |
| ignas | yeah | 17:04 |
| th1a | Now, in the future, that can now be done automatically. | 17:04 |
| ignas | maybe | 17:05 |
| ignas | it only supports one launchpad branch | 17:05 |
| ignas | we have 3 branches with translations i think | 17:05 |
| ignas | 2 branches | 17:06 |
| th1a | Well, as I have a tendency to do, I think I've been focusing my attention on problems we won't have for several years. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Or at least another year. | 17:06 |
| th1a | I don't think we're going to have to worry about making it convenient for people to translate older stable versions of SchoolTool for a while. | 17:07 |
| th1a | So defaulting to trunk is probably the right move. | 17:08 |
| Lumiere | only if defaulting to trunk is up to date :) | 17:09 |
| ignas | argh | 17:10 |
| ignas | I so dislike asking "operator" to come and "delete some stuff" | 17:10 |
| ignas | in launchpad | 17:10 |
| ignas | feels so nineteenth century | 17:10 |
| Lumiere | ignas: "trust me with the keys to my own damned car please?" :) | 17:11 |
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| Lumiere | aelkner: ayt? | 19:35 |
| Lumiere | ignas: ayt? | 19:54 |
| ignas | yep | 19:54 |
| Lumiere | is it possible to have a section with no course? | 19:56 |
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| ignas | Lumiere: API allows that, but you might run into trouble | 19:57 |
| ignas | with parts of code in cando | 19:57 |
| ignas | and probably some code in schooltol | 19:57 |
| ignas | *schoolttool | 19:57 |
| Lumiere | yea I just did | 19:58 |
| Lumiere | cando's global competency report expects a section to have courses | 19:58 |
| ignas | some cando programmers thought it was a good idea to do section.courses[0] in the UI iirc | 19:59 |
| Lumiere | yep | 19:59 |
| Lumiere | that's what this one was | 19:59 |
| aelkner | there's nothing wrong with doing section.courses[0] as long as one can assume a section always has a course | 20:00 |
| aelkner | how could a section exist without one? | 20:00 |
| aelkner | does it even make sense for a section to have no course? | 20:01 |
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| th1a | Well... | 20:01 |
| aelkner | and how could the user make that happen? | 20:01 |
| th1a | I think the bottom line is that in a perfect world it would either be impossible or handled cleanly. | 20:02 |
| jelkner | aelkner: hey man, i just tried to call you | 20:03 |
| aelkner | jelkner: you didn't try hard enough :) | 20:03 |
| jelkner | it was busy | 20:03 |
| jelkner | did you see my ping? | 20:03 |
| ignas | aelkner: but assuming that a section has only one course is absolutely wrong | 20:03 |
| aelkner | ah, yes i was talking with jason | 20:03 |
| jelkner | anyway, i was just going to thank you for getting us out of a jam | 20:04 |
| aelkner | ignas: i know that assumption is wrong, but one thing at a time | 20:04 |
| aelkner | jelkner: i want to talk to you about easter anyway, so let's wait until we are on the phone | 20:04 |
| jelkner | i'm in south carolina | 20:05 |
| aelkner | ignas: for now, the point is: how did a section get created with no course? | 20:05 |
| ignas | no idea really, ask Lumiere ;) | 20:05 |
| jelkner | aelkner: can you see my personal message to you? | 20:06 |
| aelkner | ignas: i told Lumiere that it was likely the section import that made this happen | 20:06 |
| aelkner | because i can't think of anywhere in the UI that a person could make a section have no course | 20:07 |
| ignas | Lumiere: can you try and reproduce it by not adding any courses and importing a sections worksheet? | 20:07 |
| ignas | not adding any courses to the courses "row" | 20:08 |
| Lumiere | I just got off the phone with CTE Resource Center | 20:14 |
| Lumiere | they're worked around it for now and I am bug reporting | 20:14 |
| ignas | Lumiere: so what precisely was the problem? | 20:15 |
| Lumiere | it assumes that there is at least 1 course and 1 instructor | 20:15 |
| ignas | Lumiere: not setting a course in the sections worksheet? | 20:15 |
| ignas | no, my question is - how did they create such a thing? | 20:15 |
| Lumiere | if either are missing it crashes instead of marking none | 20:16 |
| ignas | well - it should crash if there are no courses | 20:16 |
| Lumiere | ignas: I didn't look into it with glenda, she didn't do imports | 20:16 |
| ignas | we don't support that at the moment | 20:16 |
| Lumiere | ignas: there are courses... but a section with no course | 20:16 |
| ignas | but missing instructor should be handled, so it's a bug | 20:16 |
| ignas | yeah, that's what i am talking about | 20:16 |
| Lumiere | ignas: yes | 20:16 |
| ignas | section with 0 courses will cause problems | 20:16 |
| Lumiere | ignas: I'll have to ask Lee | 20:16 |
| Lumiere | I have no idea how it happened | 20:17 |
| Lumiere | and welsh is phone off | 20:17 |
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| aelkner | but, someone can look at the import code to see if it's even possible | 20:20 |
| aelkner | who wrote it? | 20:20 |
| th1a | Basically, there is a ton of safety/sanity checking that ought to be added to the .xls import routine. | 20:21 |
| th1a | We just don't have time to do all that. | 20:21 |
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| th1a | Yet. | 20:22 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: I am sending an email asking Lee for information | 20:23 |
| Lumiere | aelkner: I need to know where it came into the system to know where to look | 20:23 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: well, th1a answered my question | 20:24 |
| th1a | Bear in mind that th1a often doesn't know what he is talking about. | 20:25 |
| Lumiere | it wasn't xls import for sure | 20:25 |
| Lumiere | I am guessing it was the custom cando import | 20:25 |
| aelkner | Lumiere: yes, quite possibly | 20:25 |
| aelkner | that was yvl, right? | 20:25 |
| th1a | Same deal. | 20:25 |
| Lumiere | but... I want to make sure before I push forward on asking for those changes | 20:25 |
| Lumiere | th1a: yes | 20:25 |
| th1a | Once you add these import methods, you really have to have sanity checking at the model level. | 20:26 |
| th1a | You can't rely on "there is no way for the user to do this through the web." | 20:26 |
| th1a | And you don't want to re-write the same checks for each import method. | 20:26 |
| aelkner | i think it would be better to have the section not be addable wothout course | 20:27 |
| aelkner | then have the code check for it in a miliion places | 20:28 |
| aelkner | we would have to decide on the behavior of each individual code case if such section were possible | 20:29 |
| aelkner | and that would be more work than just not letting it happen | 20:29 |
| aelkner | what about other required fields like the title itself | 20:30 |
| aelkner | should we also always check that the title is set? | 20:30 |
| aelkner | we would end up having more code to check for that which should always be there | 20:30 |
| aelkner | than for the actual logic to use the values themselves | 20:30 |
| aelkner | it's bad coding practice | 20:31 |
| aelkner | that's why a database system has required fields in the first place | 20:32 |
| th1a | Isn't this the whole point of having interfaces? | 20:32 |
| th1a | Do we just need to change the interface? | 20:32 |
| Lumiere | th1a: interfaces aren't always a good enough test | 20:33 |
| aelkner | interfaces are not for that | 20:33 |
| aelkner | they are for asking whether something is required in a rare case | 20:33 |
| aelkner | but more commonly they are for auto generating a form | 20:33 |
| aelkner | but the code that creates an object has the responsibility of following the rules of the interface | 20:34 |
| aelkner | so a form always gets it right | 20:34 |
| aelkner | and the import code need to get it right, too | 20:34 |
| th1a | Ah. | 20:34 |
| th1a | So basically we'd want to throw an exception if you tried to add a section that didn't have a course, which would be caught by the view? | 20:35 |
| aelkner | that's what i was getting at | 20:36 |
| aelkner | we should have a subscriber for adding a section | 20:36 |
| aelkner | that throws an exception if the course is not set | 20:36 |
| aelkner | as far as the view catching it, well, that would be up to the import | 20:36 |
| th1a | Right. | 20:37 |
| aelkner | it could use try/except | 20:37 |
| aelkner | or it could just be code to not let it happen | 20:37 |
| aelkner | coded | 20:37 |
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