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| jelkner | good morning th1a! | 15:43 |
|---|---|---|
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| th1a | good morning jelkner. | 15:53 |
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| th1a | good morning ignas, aelkner, dwelsh, jstraw. | 16:31 |
| ignas | th1a: good morning | 16:31 |
| aelkner | good morning | 16:31 |
| th1a | Is yvl around? | 16:32 |
| ignas | i can get him to sit down | 16:32 |
| ignas | he's somewhere in the office ;) | 16:32 |
| th1a | Please. | 16:32 |
| ignas | ok, it seems that he's poisoning himself somewhere outside | 16:33 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:33 |
| jstraw | morning | 16:33 |
| jstraw | ignas: poisoning himself with sun? | 16:34 |
| ignas | jstraw: nope, cigaretes | 16:34 |
| th1a | So I got the thumbs up from Aiste on the switcheroo, so we're set whenever aelkner and yvl are ready. | 16:34 |
| th1a | People in Lithuania smoke. | 16:34 |
| aelkner | funny i don't remember him smoking at the sprint | 16:34 |
| jstraw | he didn't | 16:34 |
| jstraw | not even once | 16:35 |
| jstraw | or I would have known :) | 16:35 |
| jelkner | he quit while he was here | 16:35 |
| aelkner | ah | 16:35 |
| jelkner | he was trying to quit | 16:35 |
| dwelsh | but back to the meeting... | 16:35 |
| jstraw | lol welsh... | 16:35 |
| dwelsh | aelkner tells me that justas is trying to get tests to pass | 16:35 |
| dwelsh | I'm wondering where he's at with that | 16:35 |
| jelkner | great question | 16:36 |
| dwelsh | aelkner and I touched base on Friday and are ready for the switch | 16:36 |
| jelkner | that is holding replaceafil as well | 16:36 |
| jelkner | he wants to start trying to develop | 16:36 |
| jelkner | but to do tdd, he needs all the tests to pass | 16:36 |
| dwelsh | Brief Arlington Public Schools CanDo/SchoolTool installation report | 16:36 |
| dwelsh | ALL CTE teachers in Arlington Public Schools are now using CanDo/SchoolTool | 16:37 |
| *** yvl has joined #schooltool | 16:37 | |
| yvl | hi | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | That's 55 teachers, 76 courses, 259 sections, and a database of 9,600 students | 16:37 |
| jstraw | 'morning yvl | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | CanDo/SchoolTool is stable and performing very well. | 16:37 |
| dwelsh | But we have a number of minor features to add regarding reports, usability, etc. | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | The first set of these is reported on Launchpad. | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | I am spending a lot of my time making sure that the needs of these 55 users are met. | 16:38 |
| dwelsh | I believe that adding these usability and reporting features will really lock-in their commitment to using CanDo/SchoolTool | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | The VA State pilot is now set to start in January 2009, with second semester classes. | 16:39 |
| th1a | Presumably that's what aelkner is going to do? | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | Correct. | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | This delay in the State Pilot may be a blessing as we'll get to add our minor features and improve usability | 16:39 |
| dwelsh | So overall, the report is quite good. | 16:40 |
| dwelsh | I'm amazed how well our development team did this past summer | 16:40 |
| jstraw | I think that reporting features need to be done at the schooltool level | 16:40 |
| dwelsh | Especially as we covered from the surprise transition from Eldar to Sufitchi | 16:40 |
| dwelsh | Kudos to one and all!!! | 16:40 |
| ignas | jstraw: what kind of features precisely? | 16:41 |
| th1a | aelkner should be able to determine which go where. | 16:41 |
| th1a | We can link bugs between projects, right? | 16:41 |
| aelkner | yeah, welsh and i can work that stuff out | 16:41 |
| dwelsh | I do have a question with regards to users and permission classes | 16:42 |
| dwelsh | We now have administrators on the system. | 16:42 |
| dwelsh | They will want to be able to look at all classes and sections in the system. | 16:42 |
| th1a | (we can mark the bugs that affect schooltool in launchpad) | 16:42 |
| dwelsh | They also will want to see reports that relate to all sections and classes | 16:42 |
| dwelsh | Are these permissions setup correctly? | 16:42 |
| th1a | They should be. | 16:43 |
| dwelsh | Any issues related to administrator right and permissions will be SchoolTool issues, right? | 16:43 |
| th1a | I mean, that's the design. If it doesn't work, it is a bug. | 16:43 |
| th1a | It depends. | 16:43 |
| dwelsh | So Alan can help decide the "depends"? | 16:44 |
| th1a | It could be either. | 16:44 |
| ignas | i will help you decide that ;) | 16:44 |
| dwelsh | OK. | 16:44 |
| th1a | You could screw up just the permissions on your data. | 16:44 |
| th1a | Or we might have screwed up the whole thing. | 16:44 |
| dwelsh | I'm assuming that any permissions our administrators will want, ANY administrator will want. | 16:44 |
| dwelsh | It's an opportunity to drive development with real users. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Well... in terms of viewing data, that should be reasonably straightforward. | 16:45 |
| th1a | Editing that kind of data is not so clear cut. | 16:45 |
| dwelsh | So we'll be good about writing user stories and bugs, and you guys can take a look at it. | 16:46 |
| ignas | yes | 16:46 |
| ignas | schooltool permissions are flexible enough | 16:46 |
| ignas | to allow cando have mostly anything they want | 16:46 |
| th1a | It is not going to be a big deal. | 16:46 |
| ignas | without much help from schooltol | 16:46 |
| dwelsh | My own philosophy -- define the groups well, so that a minimum of permission tweaking is required. | 16:46 |
| dwelsh | Permission tweaking becomes complicated, quickly, and is rarely worth the effort. | 16:47 |
| dwelsh | IMHO | 16:47 |
| ignas | dwelsh: i am talking about defining groups | 16:47 |
| dwelsh | ok. understood. groups are the way to go | 16:48 |
| dwelsh | Justas, how is it going getting the tests to pass? | 16:48 |
| yvl | I'm planning to commit tomorrow | 16:48 |
| dwelsh | Are those big or little problems? | 16:48 |
| th1a | What gets complicated down the road is adding more finely grained groups -- what should a guidance counselor be able to see? School psychologist, etc. | 16:49 |
| yvl | along with one bugfix (one of the gradebook views had the javascript broken) | 16:49 |
| dwelsh | There should just be four big groups... 1) students; 2) teachers; 3) administrators; 4) schooltool manager | 16:49 |
| dwelsh | I think we have a "data clerk" now, but I've always said that no one knows what that means. | 16:49 |
| dwelsh | If we get those four groups to work well, then we've cracked 95% of the problem. | 16:50 |
| ignas | dwelsh: and then there are these small groups like "teacher of a student" "leader of a resource" "leader of a group" "member of a section" and etc. and they are the other 95% of the problem ;) | 16:50 |
| jstraw | I agree with th1a | 16:51 |
| dwelsh | It's the role of administrator that I've looked at least, but will need to look at with alan over the next few months. | 16:51 |
| ignas | yeah | 16:51 |
| ignas | administrator need attention | 16:51 |
| ignas | that's for sure | 16:51 |
| th1a | Anyhow, I think we're all in agreement on focusing on the easier 80%. | 16:51 |
| th1a | I'm just saying, there is a trickier 20% that lies in wait. | 16:51 |
| dwelsh | Right. that's the place to start. | 16:51 |
| jstraw | we need to have a system where groups can be given permissions | 16:51 |
| th1a | Anyhow... sorry I stepped on yvl there. | 16:52 |
| dwelsh | Yes. But the definition of those permission, and their implementation throughout SchoolTool/CanDo, is not organized at all. | 16:52 |
| dwelsh | It was literally impossible to control. | 16:52 |
| ignas | dwelsh: em really? cando had no changes to schooltool permissions IIRC | 16:53 |
| ignas | even if there are - there are 2-3 tweaks | 16:53 |
| th1a | I don't want to rehash this permission discussion further. | 16:53 |
| dwelsh | We don't need to. Let's live and die by groups, and get the big four right. | 16:53 |
| dwelsh | Then we can tackle the rest (5-20%) as we need to. | 16:53 |
| th1a | OK... let's get an update from aelkner. | 16:54 |
| aelkner | last week, we got SLA set up with this year's data | 16:54 |
| aelkner | there was some feedback about some minor issues, two of which were low hanging fruit | 16:55 |
| aelkner | so i handled them | 16:55 |
| aelkner | the bigger issue was the gradebook | 16:55 |
| aelkner | two things | 16:55 |
| aelkner | 1) there needs to be a spreadsheet at the gradebook's main view (like cando) | 16:55 |
| aelkner | instead of forcing the user to drill down to enter grades | 16:56 |
| aelkner | 2) SLA wants activities to be totaled instead of averaged | 16:56 |
| aelkner | which Tom agreed could be done by supplying both | 16:56 |
| aelkner | so this week, i will be working on improving the gradebook in these ways | 16:57 |
| aelkner | and doing so in time for the intrepid release | 16:57 |
| aelkner | after i've delivered this to SLA | 16:57 |
| aelkner | we will want to get busy deploying CAS | 16:58 |
| th1a | Did the meeting push us any further on that? | 16:58 |
| aelkner | we did go there | 16:58 |
| aelkner | not | 16:58 |
| aelkner | chris had enough on his hands | 16:59 |
| aelkner | just working on his schooltool instance with me | 16:59 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:59 |
| aelkner | he didn't have any more time | 16:59 |
| aelkner | but i'm sure he'll find it with in the next two weeks | 16:59 |
| th1a | Theoretically we have the users in sync now though, which is a step toward CAS? | 16:59 |
| aelkner | ah, yes, the home page works for them | 17:00 |
| aelkner | even though they have to log in redundantly | 17:00 |
| th1a | OK. Good. So we are a good bit closer to being able to throw the switch. | 17:00 |
| aelkner | yes | 17:01 |
| th1a | What doesn't work with CAS? | 17:01 |
| aelkner | three things need to happen for cas | 17:01 |
| aelkner | 1) schooltool needs to be configured to use it (trivial) | 17:02 |
| aelkner | 2) moodle needs to be configured and pathed to use it | 17:02 |
| aelkner | 3) drupaled needs to be configured to use it | 17:02 |
| aelkner | ah, and one more thing | 17:02 |
| th1a | And you've done those things on development servers. | 17:02 |
| aelkner | yes | 17:02 |
| aelkner | 4) | 17:03 |
| aelkner | the cas server talks to a user table | 17:03 |
| aelkner | that needs to be updated with the new users | 17:03 |
| aelkner | chris will have to do that with my help | 17:03 |
| aelkner | that's it | 17:03 |
| th1a | And then there is just other things that would be nice but strictly speaking aren't necessary like logout actually working correctly. | 17:04 |
| aelkner | it would be nice but not within the scope of oct 15 | 17:05 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:05 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:05 |
| th1a | I have a copy of the first report yvl will need to do for SLA. | 17:06 |
| th1a | I'm going to send an email back to them asking a couple of followup questions and cc:yvl. | 17:06 |
| th1a | Overall, it looks very simple though. | 17:06 |
| th1a | So probably we'll crank out several reports for them and then perhaps we can spend a little time thinking about how we want to manage reports in general. | 17:07 |
| th1a | And maybe yvl will spend some time on that. | 17:07 |
| th1a | Step two of the plan is still a little vague. | 17:08 |
| th1a | Make sense? | 17:08 |
| aelkner | step two? | 17:09 |
| th1a | Step 1) make reports; | 17:09 |
| th1a | 2) address report management in SchoolTool? | 17:09 |
| ignas | 3) profit | 17:10 |
| * ignas could not resist | 17:10 | |
| th1a | That's implicit ;-) | 17:10 |
| ignas | the more vague the step 2 the more profit ;) | 17:10 |
| aelkner | step one is needed by oct 15 | 17:10 |
| aelkner | step 2 is for the long run | 17:11 |
| ignas | aelkner: how many reports? and when will you have them all? | 17:11 |
| ignas | have as in - know what they are | 17:11 |
| ignas | and how many they need | 17:11 |
| ignas | and make yvl know that ;) | 17:11 |
| aelkner | i only know of one | 17:11 |
| th1a | We've only promised one report -- that's the one I have. | 17:11 |
| aelkner | the Narrative Report Card | 17:11 |
| th1a | Which is pretty simple -- POV could knock it out in a day, probably. | 17:11 |
| th1a | So we'll need to get more requests from them. | 17:12 |
| aelkner | they haven't mentioned anything that i can remember | 17:12 |
| aelkner | but i'm sure they'll come up with things as they use it | 17:13 |
| ignas | so 1 report for oct 15 | 17:13 |
| ignas | and them some more stuff | 17:13 |
| aelkner | right | 17:13 |
| aelkner | but not necessarily right away | 17:13 |
| aelkner | that's organic | 17:13 |
| ignas | so yvl must do some more organic stuff before oct 15 ;) | 17:13 |
| aelkner | totally by chance what they react to as they use it | 17:13 |
| th1a | Not necessarily. | 17:13 |
| th1a | Basically, when we planned this with Chris, we said 1 report factoring in Alan learning ReportLab. | 17:14 |
| * ignas just trying to find out what are the commitments for oct 15... | 17:14 | |
| th1a | 1 report. | 17:14 |
| th1a | However, I'm not paying yvl to write 1 report and sit on his hands for the next two weeks. | 17:15 |
| ignas | :D | 17:15 |
| yvl | good :) | 17:15 |
| * yvl is thinking about 1-2 week vacation, btw | 17:15 | |
| th1a | Ah... when? | 17:16 |
| ignas | th1a: can you send the example report to yvl and cc it to me | 17:16 |
| yvl | it would be good if I could start from next week | 17:16 |
| th1a | Yes, yes. | 17:16 |
| th1a | Start the vacation next week? Or the work? | 17:16 |
| yvl | vacation... | 17:16 |
| th1a | OK. So finish CanDo stuff and go on vacation? | 17:17 |
| yvl | yes | 17:17 |
| th1a | That should be fine. | 17:17 |
| th1a | yvl hasn't really done much ReportLab, right? | 17:17 |
| ignas | much more than I ever did | 17:18 |
| ignas | ;) | 17:18 |
| th1a | Oh. Good. | 17:18 |
| yvl | well, we use it in one of our products | 17:18 |
| yvl | so - some would be the right word :) | 17:18 |
| th1a | OK. I figure you learn ReportLab by osmosis at POV. | 17:18 |
| th1a | So basically we have a couple weeks to get a couple more reports out of SLA before yvl gets started. | 17:19 |
| aelkner | i really don't think they have any reports in mind | 17:20 |
| aelkner | the only thing they're interested in is the NRC | 17:20 |
| th1a | I am sure they can come up with some. | 17:20 |
| th1a | So I have to give a SchoolTool presentation this week, so I'm trying to get CanDo and SLA instances running, which is proving to be trying. | 17:22 |
| ignas | oh | 17:22 |
| ignas | how? why? | 17:22 |
| th1a | Well, specifically what we were discussing on Friday was checking in a sample XML file so I can load competencies. | 17:22 |
| ignas | ahh | 17:23 |
| ignas | so you want them populated | 17:23 |
| th1a | And then aelkner and I were discussing what gradebook related maneuvers I needed to undertake Friday when I had to leave. | 17:23 |
| aelkner | yvl should create an examples directory in cando-refactoring-6 and put the latest valid xml file there | 17:23 |
| th1a | So I guess I should talk to him more about that. | 17:23 |
| aelkner | i can help with the gradebook issue | 17:24 |
| aelkner | th1a: after the meeting | 17:25 |
| th1a | OK. Thanks. | 17:25 |
| th1a | yvl: Make sense? | 17:25 |
| yvl | ok | 17:26 |
| yvl | a very good idea | 17:26 |
| th1a | In theory we'd have sample data generation for competencies, but I won't quibble. | 17:26 |
| aelkner | the virginia example is better than random samples | 17:27 |
| aelkner | it's big and real | 17:27 |
| * th1a has to stop bringing up things he *doesn't* want to talk about. | 17:27 | |
| ignas | th1a: :) | 17:27 |
| th1a | Did we miss anything? | 17:28 |
| ignas | maybe ;) | 17:28 |
| th1a | ignas! | 17:28 |
| th1a | Go ahead. | 17:28 |
| ignas | so - groups are mostly done | 17:28 |
| ignas | they are not 100% sane | 17:28 |
| ignas | but the data structures are in place | 17:29 |
| ignas | casualties: | 17:29 |
| ignas | calendar overlays for groups | 17:29 |
| ignas | REST | 17:29 |
| ignas | (for everything) | 17:29 |
| alga | ReST in peace | 17:29 |
| ignas | levels got removed along the way too | 17:29 |
| ignas | because well - we don't need them | 17:29 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:30 |
| ignas | so now - timetable schemas | 17:30 |
| ignas | and then active schoolyear UI | 17:30 |
| ignas | and then we will have a toy that we can start breaking in various ways and then fixing ;) | 17:31 |
| th1a | Then, a real student information system. | 17:31 |
| ignas | indeed :) | 17:31 |
| ignas | oh and I have added a fancy browser class for testing that allows me to just: | 17:32 |
| ignas | browser.serve() | 17:32 |
| ignas | to start up a server in a functional test | 17:32 |
| ignas | but that's not in the trunk yet ;) | 17:32 |
| th1a | Nice. | 17:32 |
| ignas | very, kept me happy for the whole last week ;) | 17:33 |
| ignas | that's kind of everything | 17:33 |
| th1a | Happy developers are good. | 17:33 |
| th1a | OK, I think we're done then. | 17:33 |
| th1a | Have a great week folks! | 17:33 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:34 | |
| th1a | aelkner: Can you give me a call in about a half hour? | 17:34 |
| aelkner | ok | 17:34 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 17:34 |
| * th1a goes to get a muffin. | 17:34 | |
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| aelkner | bzr+ssh://schooltool.org/aelkner/schooltool.gradebook/schooltool.gradebook_aelkner/ | 18:26 |
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| th1a | aelkner: all tests pass. | 19:46 |
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| aelkner | th1a: let's use irc for now | 21:30 |
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| th1a | aelkner: So I got to the point now where I'm getting an error for not finding demjson. | 23:28 |
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