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| aelkner | th1a: ping | 05:27 |
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| jelkner | good morning! | 15:36 |
| ignas | jelkner: good morning ;) | 15:55 |
| jelkner | good morning! | 15:55 |
| ignas | jelkner: your good morning is deemed redundant, as my good morning was a delayed response to your initial good morning ;) | 15:58 |
| ignas | jelkner: good morning! | 15:58 |
| ignas | (had to say it to keep the balance) | 15:58 |
| jelkner | lol | 15:58 |
| ignas | someone has to keep the universe intact! | 15:58 |
| jelkner | and the rest of us are *very* grateful for you efforts | 15:59 |
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| jelkner | fsufitch: good morning! | 16:12 |
| fsufitch | jelkner: hi! :) | 16:13 |
| jelkner | do you have any idea yet whether you will make it to the sprint? | 16:13 |
| jelkner | aelkner is coming | 16:13 |
| jelkner | and replaceafil will hopefully be there too | 16:13 |
| fsufitch | of course i can | 16:13 |
| jelkner | cool! | 16:13 |
| fsufitch | i already told you that ;) | 16:13 |
| jelkner | but we said we would wait to see how school was going | 16:14 |
| fsufitch | ah | 16:14 |
| fsufitch | well, school is fine | 16:14 |
| jelkner | great | 16:14 |
| fsufitch | and i can afford to spend a weekend with you guys | 16:14 |
| jelkner | cool! | 16:14 |
| jelkner | btw we *love* the work you did on the gradebook! | 16:14 |
| jelkner | very nice | 16:15 |
| fsufitch | really? | 16:15 |
| fsufitch | yay!! | 16:15 |
| jelkner | it looks so good | 16:15 |
| jelkner | and works so well | 16:15 |
| fsufitch | happy to hear it :) | 16:15 |
| fsufitch | any bugs reported or anything? | 16:15 |
| aelkner | hey guys | 16:16 |
| fsufitch | aelkner: hi | 16:16 |
| aelkner | glad you can come | 16:16 |
| jelkner | yvl fixed them | 16:16 |
| fsufitch | yay | 16:17 |
| jelkner | http://www.openplans.org/projects/plone-conference-2008-dc/schooltool | 16:17 |
| aelkner | got to go to philly now, cya guys | 16:17 |
| fsufitch | aelkner: alright, have a nice trip | 16:17 |
| jelkner | by | 16:17 |
| jelkner | bye | 16:17 |
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| fsufitch | ignas: ping | 16:22 |
| ignas | fsufitch: pong | 16:22 |
| fsufitch | yay your'e there | 16:22 |
| fsufitch | do you have time to explain to me how buildout works? | 16:23 |
| ignas | yeah, i guess | 16:23 |
| ignas | not sure what's there to explain | 16:23 |
| ignas | ;) | 16:23 |
| ignas | the basics are: you have the [buildout] parth | 16:24 |
| ignas | that is the "main" | 16:24 |
| ignas | and it has parts = ... | 16:24 |
| fsufitch | huh? | 16:24 |
| ignas | that sets all the parts that will get built by default | 16:24 |
| fsufitch | *path? | 16:24 |
| ignas | part | 16:24 |
| fsufitch | ah | 16:24 |
| ignas | things that are [foo] with some definition after them are called parts | 16:24 |
| ignas | and then it's up to each part to do it's stuff | 16:25 |
| ignas | so if part has a recipe set | 16:25 |
| ignas | like zc.recipe.egg | 16:25 |
| ignas | for example | 16:25 |
| ignas | the egg recipe will tell buildout what to do to build that part | 16:25 |
| ignas | if there is no recipe | 16:25 |
| ignas | that part is probably only used as a data storage | 16:25 |
| ignas | to for example set versions of packages | 16:25 |
| ignas | so you could write version = name_of_a_part | 16:26 |
| ignas | versions | 16:26 |
| ignas | or python = python_24 | 16:26 |
| fsufitch | i c | 16:26 |
| fsufitch | but how do i just start setting it up ;) | 16:26 |
| fsufitch | cuz i have no idea where to start | 16:26 |
| fsufitch | is there a tutorial somwhere u owuld recommend | 16:26 |
| ignas | hmm, look at schooltool buildout.cfg ;) | 16:27 |
| ignas | http://plone.org/documentation/tutorial/buildout | 16:27 |
| ignas | is quite comprehensive | 16:27 |
| ignas | but is a bit plone oriented | 16:27 |
| ignas | you should probably start from finding a way to install buildout though ;) | 16:27 |
| ignas | unless you want to use bootstrap.py | 16:28 |
| ignas | provided by schooltool | 16:28 |
| fsufitch | right now i'm working off a school computer | 16:28 |
| fsufitch | w/o root power | 16:28 |
| ignas | in that case - you want the schooltool setup | 16:28 |
| fsufitch | okay | 16:28 |
| ignas | look at | 16:28 |
| fsufitch | or i want to talk to my teacher to give me root :-P | 16:28 |
| th1a_ | ignas: You need to decide if you want to go to the Intrepid summit in California. | 16:28 |
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| ignas | fsufitch: give me a second | 16:28 |
| fsufitch | kk | 16:29 |
| ignas | th1a: i don't think i have meaningful questions to ask or suggestions to make, i mean - i know the goal which is "have our zope3 packages in interpid" | 16:29 |
| ignas | but it is a very high level goal | 16:29 |
| th1a | Hm... well we have to figure out something to push it through. | 16:30 |
| ignas | fsufitch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool.stapp2008spring/files has the configuration that is closes to the bare minimum | 16:30 |
| ignas | th1a: from what I understand the first blocker is - have our packages providing a fluid migration path from the old zope3 packages | 16:31 |
| ignas | the problem is - i am not using the old packages | 16:31 |
| ignas | jinty on the other hand - is | 16:31 |
| ignas | or at least was using them to run some of his projects | 16:31 |
| fsufitch | ah | 16:31 |
| th1a | OK. | 16:32 |
| ignas | fsufitch: you need bootstrap.py buildout.cfg and look at the makefile for instructions of how do you get it to run/build | 16:32 |
| fsufitch | alright | 16:32 |
| fsufitch | :) | 16:32 |
| ignas | fsufitch: look at setup.py too | 16:32 |
| fsufitch | alrite | 16:32 |
| ignas | and if you are not using svn - at MANIFEST.in | 16:33 |
| ignas | you can probably skip the version.txt.in magic for your project, as it is mostly for making sane releases and dev releases | 16:33 |
| ignas | and is bzr specific | 16:33 |
| fsufitch | alright | 16:34 |
| ignas | th1a: i should know who I want/have to meet, and what I want to find out from them before spending your money on summits... | 16:34 |
| fsufitch | i'm using bzr though | 16:34 |
| ignas | th1a: i mean - maybe an email to the right person is enough, maybe there is no right person... | 16:34 |
| ignas | fsufitch: i see, then you will need MANIFEST.in if you will want to do "python setup.py sdist" or any other kind of packaging | 16:35 |
| fsufitch | ook | 16:35 |
| ignas | you won't need it if you will only use the stuff from a checkout though... | 16:35 |
| fsufitch | well the thing i will need it for is to make it system independent, you know? | 16:36 |
| fsufitch | like schooltool is | 16:36 |
| fsufitch | because i won't be able to install zope on school comps | 16:37 |
| ignas | true | 16:37 |
| fsufitch | and additionally, i don't wnat to include a code of z3c.form with my code, or other janx | 16:37 |
| ignas | well - setup.py is the place you define your dependencies | 16:37 |
| fsufitch | yep | 16:38 |
| jelkner | replaceafill: http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgv2st82_107cwcwftff | 16:38 |
| ignas | jelkner, th1a: hmm, by the way do you have any ideas about how it would be best/easiest/sanest to add parent login support to schooltool? | 16:40 |
| * ignas has 2 ideas | 16:40 | |
| ignas | first is - normal schooltool logins | 16:40 |
| ignas | but that adds 2x students users to schooltool, adds a new role and stuff | 16:40 |
| ignas | another one is - add something like "eve api keys" | 16:41 |
| ignas | like - manager can generate a pair of keys for public gradebook access | 16:41 |
| ignas | for a student | 16:41 |
| ignas | and can invalidate/regenerate them any time he wants | 16:41 |
| ignas | or something like that | 16:41 |
| jelkner | i like the 2nd idea | 16:41 |
| th1a | I'm not sure what that would look like to the parent. | 16:42 |
| ignas | so if a parent asks for access to the gradebook - admin goes to the student, goes to "generate parent key" | 16:42 |
| jelkner | although, there is a use case where a parent has more than one student in the system | 16:42 |
| ignas | and parent goes to some special place in the system where he inputs | 16:42 |
| ignas | like john + another password | 16:42 |
| ignas | that logs him in, but not as a student | 16:42 |
| ignas | but rather as students parent | 16:42 |
| ignas | hmm, well - having a password for each student | 16:43 |
| ignas | you can look at | 16:43 |
| ignas | is a bit cumbersome, but maybe we could live with that... | 16:43 |
| th1a | In the long run, you probably want things like separate contact info for parents. | 16:44 |
| ignas | or maybe not a password but a "passwordish" url would be enough | 16:44 |
| ignas | th1a: that you can have in students demographics | 16:44 |
| ignas | th1a: we have it in our schooltool.demographics info | 16:44 |
| ignas | even | 16:44 |
| ignas | i mean - maybe having separate full users for schooltool to allow parents to see some data is not necessary... | 16:45 |
| ignas | hmm, in ivija - we use the unique url strategy | 16:45 |
| ignas | and it works... | 16:46 |
| ignas | like - you generate a schooltool.org/sadfg4253gfdsy654r23/ | 16:46 |
| ignas | url and give it to the person you want to give access to | 16:46 |
| ignas | you can't guess them | 16:46 |
| th1a | Our data is too sensitive for that kind of thing. | 16:46 |
| ignas | the fastes way to do it with passwords would be the "assign a set of parent passwords to a student login" and have parents log in through a different page/check a checkbox way | 16:50 |
| ignas | because it saves us the user management part | 16:50 |
| ignas | the benefit of having full parent users is - you get to assign more than one student to a parent | 16:51 |
| th1a | Is there still a person-like object for each parent? | 16:52 |
| ignas | i would like to avoid it | 16:52 |
| ignas | if I can | 16:52 |
| ignas | because else - we have to manage these person-like objects | 16:52 |
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| ignas | which is the point of "plan 2" ;) | 16:52 |
| ignas | i think it is easier to add "links" between parents to allow a parent of one child access other child without logging in twice | 16:53 |
| ignas | than to have parents as full schooltool persons | 16:54 |
| th1a | Yes... but they would be some kind of "lite" person object? | 16:54 |
| ignas | nope | 16:54 |
| ignas | you add demographics of parents to person anyway, and it is in person annotations or somewhere else | 16:54 |
| ignas | so you can add "parent password list" | 16:55 |
| ignas | even disconnected from demographics | 16:55 |
| ignas | and just that list is enough | 16:55 |
| ignas | you only have 1 username | 16:55 |
| ignas | but you have 1 password for the real login, and a set of passwords that you can reset, remove for parents | 16:55 |
| ignas | and a set of views that know about that login, that is quite isolated from the rest of the system | 16:56 |
| ignas | and is more "report" like | 16:56 |
| ignas | instead of "i am using a SIS application" like | 16:56 |
| * th1a on the phone w/jelkner. | 16:56 | |
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| th1a | So this might be more controllable than checking to see if each user has any children. | 17:05 |
| ignas | or having relationships | 17:07 |
| ignas | for users | 17:07 |
| ignas | i mean - you remove a user - he loses parents, you archive user - parent access get's disabled | 17:08 |
| ignas | the data is very sensitive as you said | 17:08 |
| ignas | which is why such a thing would be like "sudo" | 17:08 |
| ignas | you give access without giving password of the user | 17:08 |
| ignas | and in this case - without giving a full account | 17:08 |
| ignas | so you keep parents behind a barrier | 17:09 |
| ignas | someone who has logged in, still can see/do more than someone who well - is not logged in and has no account on your system | 17:09 |
| ignas | school should not be providing "calendaring" application for parents of students ;) | 17:09 |
| th1a | Yes, but you might want a parent to be able to comment on something. | 17:10 |
| ignas | allowing is easier | 17:10 |
| ignas | than hiding | 17:10 |
| ignas | another thing is | 17:10 |
| ignas | hiding parents | 17:10 |
| ignas | from the staff | 17:10 |
| ignas | because staff most of the time does not want to do anything with parents | 17:11 |
| ignas | so you suddenly have not 8k of users | 17:11 |
| ignas | but more like 16K | 17:11 |
| ignas | and 8k of these - you don't care about | 17:11 |
| ignas | but still have in "persons" list, have to filter out constantly | 17:11 |
| ignas | and have to remove/archive | 17:11 |
| ignas | when students graduate | 17:11 |
| ignas | and "dearchive" when their yougster get's into the school | 17:11 |
| ignas | so in one case - i have to add "passwords for parents" | 17:12 |
| ignas | "a new login form" | 17:12 |
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| ignas | "a set of report views for gradebooks that react to the new login form" | 17:12 |
| ignas | in the other case - parents have to be considered in a lot of parts of the system desing, because they are a new role | 17:13 |
| th1a | OK. This is sounding reasonable to me. | 17:13 |
| ignas | though, maybe we should have parents as full users of the system, and get them more involved, and think of parents when writing journals (cando style), gradebooks, timetables and other parts of the system | 17:13 |
| ignas | i mean - in some sense it makes for a better application that does *more* | 17:14 |
| ignas | and increases the teacher/parent/student collaboration etc. | 17:14 |
| ignas | just that it adds cognitive load for developers ;) | 17:14 |
| th1a | There isn't some reason we're trying to decide this right now is there? | 17:15 |
| th1a | I mean, it is a good idea, but I've been thinking of parent access as a post 1.0 thing. | 17:17 |
| ignas | yeah, no reason to decide, just thinking about it while tests are running ;) | 17:48 |
| th1a | It is worth starting to think about. I just wasn't sure if this had some bearing on the great term rearrangement. | 17:48 |
| ignas | no, not really | 17:50 |
| ignas | just jelkner mentioned it | 17:50 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:51 |
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| aelkner | th1a: ayt? | 22:15 |
| th1a | I am here, aelkner. | 22:16 |
| aelkner | we had a very productive meeting today | 22:16 |
| th1a | Sounded like it. | 22:16 |
| th1a | Did you get my email? | 22:19 |
| aelkner | regarding the gradebook? | 22:20 |
| aelkner | if so, you think i should add the total column next to the average column | 22:20 |
| th1a | That seems reasonable to me, but I'm not actually looking at it right now. | 22:21 |
| th1a | I mean, is there any reason not to? | 22:22 |
| aelkner | well, i'm not sure | 22:22 |
| aelkner | could it confuse? | 22:22 |
| aelkner | should we ask jeff what he thinks | 22:23 |
| aelkner | it's a good way to deliver quickly | 22:23 |
| th1a | I don't think it is confusing. The only possible issue is the amount of space it takes up, which isn't really an issue yet. | 22:23 |
| aelkner | no | 22:23 |
| aelkner | perhaps confusing is the wrong term | 22:23 |
| aelkner | tell you what | 22:23 |
| aelkner | i'll do it, and if jeff has something to say about it | 22:24 |
| aelkner | we can deal with that when the time comes | 22:24 |
| th1a | In the longer run we' | 22:24 |
| th1a | ll probably want people to be able to choose which stats are visible. | 22:24 |
| aelkner | yeah | 22:25 |
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