| *** didymo has joined #schooltool | 00:14 | |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 00:15 | |
| *** alga has joined #SchoolTool | 01:13 | |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 03:48 | |
| *** didymo has quit IRC | 09:50 | |
| *** ignas has joined #schooltool | 12:56 | |
| *** tdogg|away has joined #schooltool | 13:27 | |
| *** alga has joined #SchoolTool | 14:32 | |
| *** tdoggette has joined #schooltool | 15:15 | |
| *** th1a has joined #schooltool | 15:31 | |
| *** eldar has joined #schooltool | 15:40 | |
| *** wbrady has joined #schooltool | 15:50 | |
| Lumiere | hi th1a | 15:51 |
|---|---|---|
| Lumiere | eldar, wbrady, tdoggette | 15:51 |
| tdoggette | Yeah, yeah, I'm up. | 15:51 |
| Lumiere | tdoggette: were you looking for me over the weekend? | 15:52 |
| Lumiere | when I was totally dead to the world | 15:52 |
| tdoggette | Yeah, but I just needed someone with root on maddog, and I found someone else. | 15:52 |
| Lumiere | I do not have root on any yhs equipment | 15:52 |
| Lumiere | until said equipment moves to ACC (and goes under my security) it's matt's issue ;) | 15:53 |
| Lumiere | he can call me for assistance, but I have enough servers to deal with atm | 15:54 |
| tdoggette | Ah. | 15:54 |
| wbrady | hey Lumiere I guess jelkner is not around | 15:54 |
| Lumiere | wbrady: he doesn't come to these | 15:54 |
| tdoggette | wbrady: I'm in a room with him if you need him. | 15:54 |
| wbrady | alright thats cool | 15:54 |
| tdoggette | You need him? | 15:54 |
| wbrady | no no its fine | 15:55 |
| wbrady | Lumiere: you're not at ACC are u? | 15:56 |
| Lumiere | I come in after the Developers Meeting at 9:30 | 15:57 |
| th1a | hi Lumiere | 15:57 |
| wbrady | yea i'm sitting in the lobby watching this meeting | 15:57 |
| Lumiere | wbrady: welsh should be there | 15:58 |
| wbrady | he is he is in the meeting | 15:58 |
| Lumiere | and you can't get into the office? | 15:58 |
| wbrady | no but its fine i'll just hang out here | 15:58 |
| Lumiere | if you go talk to one of the office staff | 15:58 |
| Lumiere | they may let you in ;) | 15:58 |
| Lumiere | or you can just sit there and work on the curric | 15:59 |
| wbrady | it's sort of interesting hearing what the guy talking has to say | 15:59 |
| Lumiere | what's the guy look like? | 15:59 |
| eldar | what guy? | 15:59 |
| wbrady | Lumiere: short, white, gray beard | 16:00 |
| Lumiere | wbrady: noone I know off hand then | 16:01 |
| wbrady | yea he's talking about his experience with a stem thing he did in another school i think | 16:02 |
| eldar | tdoggette, did you need anything from me? | 16:02 |
| tdoggette | eldar: I'm working on the doctestquiz code that you and pcardune worked on a couple years back. Is there anything I need to know about it? | 16:03 |
| tdoggette | https://svn.schooltool.org/trac/cando/browser/trunk/src/cando/doctestquiz?rev=556 | 16:03 |
| Lumiere | <_< *shoots doctestquiz a few times* | 16:03 |
| eldar | that's an ambiguous question | 16:03 |
| eldar | and you'll get an ambiguous answer | 16:03 |
| Lumiere | eldar: not from me :) | 16:04 |
| eldar | tdoggette, http://svn.schooltool.org/cando/branches/doctest-quiz/ is the branch you want to use | 16:04 |
| Lumiere | tdoggette: why would anyone in their right mind agree to work on a piece of code that I really *really* don't want to let into trunk :) | 16:04 |
| eldar | Lumiere, he's doing something with grok | 16:05 |
| eldar | this is outside of schooltool/cando | 16:05 |
| Lumiere | eldar: ah | 16:05 |
| tdoggette | Lumiere: What's wrong with it beyond the general objection to letting students execute code on the server? | 16:05 |
| eldar | tdoggette, nothing really. it's pretty safe right now | 16:05 |
| eldar | are you trying to port it outside of cando? | 16:05 |
| Lumiere | it has no applicability beyond a extremely small swatch of computer science users | 16:06 |
| tdoggette | eldar: for now, yeah. | 16:06 |
| eldar | have you looked at the code yet? | 16:06 |
| tdoggette | I'm putting a web interface on it and getting it working well enough that it can do its job as a way to take a test | 16:06 |
| tdoggette | eldar: Yeah. | 16:06 |
| eldar | yeah you just gotta strip out schooltool/cando centric stuff | 16:07 |
| eldar | there isn't much | 16:07 |
| tdoggette | All that it really needs to do is toss a boolean on whether or not something passes. | 16:08 |
| eldar | tdoggette, wait are you trying to modify the core as you're porting it? | 16:08 |
| tdoggette | Incidentally, that link seems to not contain any of the code. | 16:08 |
| tdoggette | eldar: I'm trying to get it working separately from Cando. | 16:08 |
| eldar | http://svn.schooltool.org/cando/branches/doctest-quiz/src/cando/quiz/ | 16:09 |
| eldar | gotta look deeper | 16:09 |
| eldar | tdoggette, I get that point | 16:09 |
| eldar | but are you saying you want to rip out the error messages | 16:09 |
| eldar | and stuff that it used to return? | 16:09 |
| tdoggette | It'll be returning that stuff to a web page instead of a shell | 16:09 |
| th1a | Run it on Google App Engine. | 16:10 |
| Lumiere | th1a: this is jeff we're talking about | 16:10 |
| th1a | Use their sandbox. | 16:10 |
| tdoggette | th1a: Elkner wants grok, or else I would. | 16:10 |
| Lumiere | he's still focused on zope apps | 16:10 |
| tdoggette | Though my invite did come through a while ago. | 16:10 |
| eldar | tdoggette, did you actually see doctest quiz in action? | 16:11 |
| tdoggette | My goal for doctestquiz is a grok/zope app that has a nice web interface for submitting python code and getting a result about whether it passes a doctest | 16:11 |
| eldar | i don't think we're on the same page here | 16:11 |
| tdoggette | eldar: No, I've just seen the code. | 16:12 |
| eldar | ok from the code, what do you see | 16:12 |
| tdoggette | A piece of zope that takes a doctest and a piece of untrusted code and returns either success or failure with errors. | 16:13 |
| eldar | yea | 16:13 |
| eldar | and you want to remove the failures part? | 16:13 |
| eldar | i mean returning errors | 16:14 |
| eldar | for debugging purposes | 16:14 |
| tdoggette | I'm not sure exactly what Elkner wants. The errors are nice for learning, but not necessarily for testing. | 16:14 |
| Lumiere | returning the error will help in grading | 16:15 |
| eldar | tdoggette, well go make sure what jeff wants | 16:15 |
| eldar | before you do any work and end up having to redo it | 16:16 |
| Lumiere | and get him to write all those userstories out somewhere | 16:16 |
| tdoggette | Elkner says that he wants it to be right or wrong. | 16:16 |
| Lumiere | and rubber stamp em ;) | 16:16 |
| Lumiere | tdoggette: ask him whether he wants extra data about wrong | 16:16 |
| Lumiere | otherwise you find yourself in the unenviable position of fixing it last minute | 16:17 |
| Lumiere | with no recourse against a change order | 16:17 |
| eldar | he probably should want it, regardess of what he actually does. because just right or wrong can be frustrating | 16:18 |
| Lumiere | hi ignas, aelkner | 16:18 |
| aelkner | hi Lumiere | 16:18 |
| tdoggette | eldar: Lumiere: He wants several things, apparently. | 16:20 |
| tdoggette | Both a yes/no and "hidden" doctest that prevent brute-forcing, and a limited amount of information about correctness. | 16:21 |
| ignas | hi | 16:22 |
| eldar | well i'd first port it as it is | 16:23 |
| eldar | and then make changes from there | 16:23 |
| Lumiere | tdoggette: no offense... but I'm glad it isn't me writing it | 16:23 |
| aelkner | ignas: i'm having trouble distributing my schooltool changes to SLA | 16:24 |
| tdoggette | Lumiere: I know how you feel. | 16:24 |
| ignas | aelkner: what kind of problems? | 16:24 |
| aelkner | i made changes to my branch on my machine | 16:24 |
| ignas | yes | 16:25 |
| aelkner | then i bzr ci to it | 16:25 |
| aelkner | then: | 16:25 |
| aelkner | bzr push --create-prefix bzr+ssh://schooltool.org/aelkner/schooltool/schooltool_sla/ | 16:25 |
| ignas | yes | 16:25 |
| aelkner | then i went to the SLA machine | 16:25 |
| aelkner | bzr bind http://staging.schooltool.org/bzr2/schooltool/aelkner/schooltool/schooltool_sla | 16:25 |
| aelkner | then i did a bzr pull | 16:26 |
| ignas | emm | 16:26 |
| aelkner | Using saved location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool/ | 16:26 |
| aelkner | bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://staging.schooltool.org/bzr2/schooltool/.bzr/repository/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir() | 16:26 |
| Lumiere | you shouldn't need to pull | 16:26 |
| Lumiere | oh wait XD | 16:26 |
| Lumiere | *misread* | 16:26 |
| aelkner | that was what yoru page said to do | 16:27 |
| ignas | hmm, bzr bind and then pull? | 16:28 |
| ignas | can't find that | 16:28 |
| ignas | anyway | 16:28 |
| ignas | after bind | 16:28 |
| ignas | try bzr up | 16:28 |
| ignas | bind - makes a branch and independent branch | 16:28 |
| ignas | into a checkout | 16:28 |
| ignas | checkout acts the same way svn checkouts do | 16:29 |
| aelkner | ok, i don't see bzr bind followed by bzr pull | 16:29 |
| ignas | pull and push - are for branches | 16:29 |
| th1a | hi all | 16:29 |
| aelkner | but i don't find bzr up either | 16:29 |
| aelkner | i think your page gets confusing there | 16:29 |
| ignas | yes, there isn't any, it is kind of implied ;) | 16:29 |
| ignas | same for bzr push | 16:29 |
| eldar | tdoggette, did you ask everything you wanted? | 16:29 |
| ignas | after bind | 16:29 |
| ignas | no need to do that | 16:29 |
| ignas | you push it | 16:29 |
| tdoggette | eldar: Yes, thanks. | 16:29 |
| ignas | then you bind it | 16:29 |
| ignas | and then you use it with bzr ci and bzr up | 16:30 |
| aelkner | where does it say that? | 16:30 |
| ignas | Work on the feature/fix in that branch. When done - publish it: | 16:30 |
| ignas | ~/schooltool_sandbox/schooltool.gradebook_fix_broken_grades$ bzr push --create-prefix bzr+ssh://schooltool.org/aelkner/schooltool.gradebook/schooltool.gradebook_fix_broken_grades/ | 16:30 |
| ignas | Bind that branch, so that all your changes would get published as soon as you commit them: | 16:30 |
| ignas | ~/schooltool_sandbox/schooltool.gradebook_fix_broken_grades$ bzr bind bzr+ssh://schooltool.org/aelkner/schooltool.gradebook/schooltool.gradebook_fix_broken_grades/ | 16:30 |
| ignas | push, then bind | 16:30 |
| ignas | and then bzr ci | 16:30 |
| ignas | and on the other end - just rebind it and bzr up it if you had a branch there | 16:31 |
| ignas | or bzr co it | 16:31 |
| aelkner | i see push | 16:31 |
| aelkner | then bind | 16:31 |
| aelkner | then branch | 16:31 |
| aelkner | that's confusing | 16:31 |
| aelkner | i think it need to be more in a proper order | 16:31 |
| ignas | it is in the proper order, just that it is explaining 2 different things | 16:32 |
| ignas | bzr ci to your own branch | 16:32 |
| ignas | and feature branches | 16:32 |
| ignas | at the same time | 16:32 |
| ignas | one after another though | 16:32 |
| ignas | the urls of branches are different | 16:32 |
| aelkner | yeah, but that's the problem | 16:32 |
| aelkner | it's explaining two different things | 16:33 |
| ignas | and even there | 16:33 |
| ignas | it's push, then bind | 16:33 |
| ignas | i will denote the "feature branch" detour | 16:33 |
| ignas | in some way | 16:33 |
| aelkner | could you break it up into instructions that can be followed verbatum? | 16:33 |
| ignas | without understanding what you are doing - probably no | 16:34 |
| ignas | you will get confused if the only difference between pull and checkout will be - it's different words | 16:34 |
| ignas | i will try though | 16:34 |
| aelkner | i think the best way to learn is by example | 16:35 |
| aelkner | so if we have examples of what to do on your machine followed by how to deploy it | 16:35 |
| th1a | Well, at a certain point you need some conceptual understanding. | 16:35 |
| ignas | well - it is an example and you can follow it | 16:35 |
| ignas | it creates an sla branch | 16:35 |
| ignas | and an sla_feature branch | 16:35 |
| aelkner | i understand concepts by seeing them in action | 16:35 |
| ignas | and merges the sla_feature branch into the sla branch | 16:35 |
| aelkner | sorry, that's how my brain works | 16:36 |
| ignas | it explains even more than you need | 16:36 |
| ignas | which apparently is the problem | 16:36 |
| ignas | which is why i will try splitting it into 2 usecases | 16:36 |
| aelkner | yes | 16:36 |
| aelkner | i think that the creating the feature branch could come after explaining the deployment of the first | 16:36 |
| aelkner | it's just a matter of order | 16:36 |
| aelkner | and the example should be doable verbatum | 16:37 |
| ignas | it is doable verbatim | 16:37 |
| ignas | just that it does it in a different way from the one you are doing | 16:37 |
| aelkner | i followed it verbatum and i got the failure | 16:37 |
| ignas | there were no steps that were concerning the deployment part in there i think... | 16:38 |
| ignas | and the failure is when checking out | 16:38 |
| th1a | I am sure ignas will update the instructions to reflect your feedback, aelkner. | 16:38 |
| aelkner | that's my hope | 16:39 |
| ignas | yes, will do, will add separate full sections for all the usecases mentioned | 16:39 |
| aelkner | excellent | 16:39 |
| aelkner | for now: | 16:39 |
| ignas | instead of having 1 section that goes through everything you need | 16:39 |
| aelkner | perfect | 16:39 |
| aelkner | what do i do on SLA now? | 16:39 |
| aelkner | bzr up? | 16:39 |
| ignas | try it | 16:39 |
| aelkner | ok | 16:39 |
| aelkner | it's transferring | 16:40 |
| aelkner | it brought in a bunch of changes that i didn't do | 16:40 |
| th1a | ignas: Do you want me to just add a developer section to the SchoolTool book and start checking these docs into that? | 16:40 |
| aelkner | but it also brought in my changes, too | 16:40 |
| aelkner | i think | 16:41 |
| ignas | th1a: well - i don't really know what is the right way at the moment, i have a branch | 16:41 |
| *** wbrady_ has joined #schooltool | 16:41 | |
| ignas | with developer docs | 16:41 |
| aelkner | yes, my changes came in | 16:41 |
| ignas | th1a: that you can merge from | 16:41 |
| th1a | A branch of? | 16:41 |
| ignas | user-guide | 16:41 |
| ignas | that has a section "developer handbook" | 16:42 |
| ignas | but i was not sure whether you want it in the main docs, or as a separate "book" | 16:42 |
| th1a | Ah. Well, why don't you check it into trunk and I'll re-arrange it. | 16:42 |
| ignas | i think it is mergeable without including the buildout changes even, if you don't want buildout | 16:42 |
| ignas | hmm, ok | 16:42 |
| ignas | question is - buildout or no-buildout or no difference | 16:42 |
| ignas | as long as it works | 16:43 |
| th1a | buildout for the docs? | 16:43 |
| ignas | make html works that is | 16:43 |
| ignas | yes | 16:43 |
| th1a | it fetches Sphinx? | 16:43 |
| ignas | yes, as an egg | 16:43 |
| th1a | Yeah, I'll start using that. | 16:43 |
| ignas | ok, will merge everything to trunk then | 16:43 |
| ignas | after the meeting | 16:43 |
| th1a | Cool. | 16:43 |
| aelkner | ignas: why did i get all these changes to traversal stuff? | 16:44 |
| ignas | because they are a part of the trunk that you branched from | 16:44 |
| ignas | i'd guess | 16:44 |
| aelkner | but i thought branches where separate? | 16:45 |
| ignas | well - they are separate now, but when you branch - you branch at that moment in time | 16:45 |
| ignas | so if you branched yesterday from the trunk - you got all the changes that were in trunk | 16:45 |
| aelkner | actually, i branched on my machine when eldar and i met with you | 16:46 |
| aelkner | then i branched on SLA machine the next monday | 16:46 |
| ignas | maybe you bzr pulled that branch | 16:46 |
| ignas | i don't really know what precisely you did, so i don't really know what is the state of your branch | 16:46 |
| ignas | maybe you can run bzr info | 16:46 |
| ignas | to see | 16:46 |
| ignas | what your branch is bound to | 16:46 |
| aelkner | root@schooltool:/opt/schooltool_sandbox/schooltool# bzr info | 16:47 |
| aelkner | Repository checkout (format: pack-0.92) | 16:47 |
| aelkner | Location: | 16:47 |
| aelkner | repository checkout root: . | 16:47 |
| aelkner | checkout of branch: http://staging.schooltool.org/bzr2/schooltool/aelkner/schooltool/schooltool_sla/ | 16:47 |
| aelkner | shared repository: /opt/schooltool_sandbox | 16:47 |
| aelkner | Related branches: | 16:47 |
| aelkner | parent branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eschooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool/ | 16:47 |
| aelkner | that's after i already did teh bind to my new prefix | 16:47 |
| ignas | yeah, i see | 16:47 |
| ignas | i don't really know, i mean - you could have pulled from trunk some time during the days | 16:48 |
| ignas | because a "bzr pull" | 16:48 |
| ignas | in a checkout will update your branch | 16:48 |
| ignas | from the trunk | 16:48 |
| ignas | the parent branch that is | 16:48 |
| aelkner | i did a bzr pull | 16:48 |
| aelkner | so maybe that's it | 16:48 |
| ignas | so you got your branch updated | 16:48 |
| aelkner | that's when i got the error | 16:49 |
| aelkner | about the mkdir | 16:49 |
| aelkner | so i won't wnat to do the bzr pull anymore | 16:49 |
| ignas | not really | 16:49 |
| aelkner | i thought bzr pull was the equivalent of svn up | 16:50 |
| ignas | it's not | 16:50 |
| ignas | bzr up and bzr pull are 2 different things | 16:50 |
| aelkner | please keep in mind when you update the instructions | 16:51 |
| ignas | well - pull | 16:51 |
| aelkner | that some people like myself (and there are probably others) | 16:51 |
| ignas | is mentioned once | 16:51 |
| ignas | and not in the command line even | 16:51 |
| aelkner | can only understand concepts | 16:51 |
| ignas | so - i don't really know where you got the idea | 16:51 |
| aelkner | when they see them in action | 16:51 |
| aelkner | i don't either | 16:51 |
| ignas | and bzr documentation | 16:52 |
| ignas | is the thing to read | 16:52 |
| aelkner | i can't keep this stuff straight | 16:52 |
| ignas | is you want more examples | 16:52 |
| ignas | and want to learn concepts | 16:52 |
| ignas | they have a lot more experience in teaching others to use bzr and understand bzr | 16:52 |
| aelkner | ok | 16:52 |
| aelkner | but i'd still prefer to have examples of our own that i can refer to | 16:53 |
| *** wbrady_ has quit IRC | 16:53 | |
| aelkner | i keep cheat sheets around | 16:53 |
| th1a | Yes -- you really need to spend a little time with the bzr docs, aelkner. | 16:53 |
| aelkner | so i don';t have to go back to larger docs | 16:53 |
| aelkner | it takes too long to do that each time | 16:53 |
| aelkner | th1a: ok | 16:53 |
| *** wbrady has quit IRC | 16:55 | |
| ignas | so :) | 16:56 |
| ignas | should i tell you what I was doing last week? | 16:56 |
| th1a | Thanks for the email report aelkner. Please try to squeeze in sample data generation for the new features so I can see them. | 16:56 |
| th1a | ignas: Yes. | 16:56 |
| ignas | in the beginning of the week worked on loading all the term transition problem back into my tiny head | 16:57 |
| ignas | Justas helped me a with some insights into how to simplify the changes to the codebase | 16:58 |
| th1a | Good... I was hoping it was time to get back to that. | 16:58 |
| ignas | created a plan of action and worked on the step one | 16:58 |
| ignas | which is handling all the today problems in the system | 16:58 |
| ignas | so i would have a time machine | 16:58 |
| ignas | in unit tests | 16:59 |
| ignas | and functional tests | 16:59 |
| ignas | so no more - this test fails on mondays problem | 16:59 |
| ignas | on the other hand - you will be able to test the code that only fails on mondays | 16:59 |
| ignas | without waiting for an actual monday ;) | 16:59 |
| th1a | Good ;-) | 16:59 |
| ignas | now i have it working and I am fixing all the code to actually use that utility | 17:00 |
| ignas | to get today and now | 17:00 |
| ignas | things like tomorrow event portlet looking for actual tomorrow in a wondrously hacky way | 17:00 |
| ignas | then I will start working on SchoolYear objects | 17:01 |
| ignas | putting terms into schoolyears | 17:01 |
| ignas | and attaching terms and schoolyears to all the stuff | 17:01 |
| ignas | i am not even sure how to organize the UI | 17:02 |
| ignas | around that | 17:02 |
| ignas | because we have multiple flat lists | 17:02 |
| ignas | that will have to become a part of 3 level hierarchy | 17:02 |
| ignas | 2008 -> 2008 Spring -> default school timetable | 17:02 |
| ignas | for example | 17:03 |
| th1a | Year > Term > TT Schema? | 17:03 |
| ignas | yes | 17:03 |
| ignas | So Manage -> year -> term -> School Timetables | 17:03 |
| th1a | The relationship to TT Schema isn't really hierarchical. | 17:03 |
| ignas | it kind of is, i mean - it is more convenient to work with it that way | 17:04 |
| th1a | I guess we need to think in terms of use cases. | 17:04 |
| ignas | even if you pile on "copying" of it | 17:04 |
| ignas | from term to term | 17:04 |
| ignas | well - ok | 17:05 |
| ignas | you can have it not in a term | 17:05 |
| ignas | but sections and courses and groups for example | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | I agree with th1a | 17:05 |
| Lumiere | a timetable should be linked into a term as information | 17:05 |
| ignas | i am thinking in usecases, which is why i mentioned this problem | 17:06 |
| Lumiere | but a school's timetable rarely changes from year to year or term to term | 17:06 |
| ignas | Lumiere: i understand it was a bad example | 17:06 |
| th1a | Adjustments year to year are not uncommon. | 17:06 |
| ignas | just that | 17:07 |
| ignas | when you have to pick between | 17:07 |
| ignas | single namespace | 17:07 |
| ignas | with "deprecation" | 17:07 |
| ignas | that hides old ones | 17:07 |
| ignas | and shows new ones | 17:07 |
| ignas | and a "copy on new school year" | 17:07 |
| ignas | way of handling it | 17:07 |
| ignas | automatic copy might be more intuitive than having to "hide" some school timetables, because you want to change slots | 17:08 |
| ignas | or remove a lesson | 17:08 |
| ignas | so just - copy it and do whatever you want | 17:08 |
| ignas | might be better than - do some things, but if you want to do other things - delete the school timetable | 17:08 |
| ignas | s/delete/hide | 17:08 |
| ignas | and create a new one | 17:08 |
| ignas | with a different name preferably to avoid confusion | 17:09 |
| ignas | it's a can of worms :/ | 17:09 |
| aelkner | by all means, let's avoid confusion | 17:09 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:09 |
| th1a | I'd say you should ping us as you hit specific cases. | 17:09 |
| th1a | In the UI. | 17:10 |
| ignas | indeed | 17:10 |
| ignas | that's everything i did | 17:10 |
| th1a | I'm glad we're moving forward on that problem. | 17:11 |
| th1a | Lumiere: Anything to add? | 17:12 |
| ignas | the main insight was - moving tracking of time in membership for example from being in Group and in Person to being a part of a relationship, which means that only objects that we need to have versions are relationships, School Timetables and Timetables | 17:13 |
| ignas | so we don't need a cover all abstraction that would affect every single content object | 17:14 |
| th1a | OK... I think I see that. | 17:14 |
| th1a | What does "versions" mean in that context? | 17:15 |
| ignas | well - you can have 2 versions of a timetable | 17:15 |
| ignas | up to 2005-05-13 you had history as lesson 1 | 17:15 |
| ignas | and since then it's lesson 2 | 17:15 |
| ignas | so you got 2 versions of the same object, and the state of the timetable depends on the date | 17:16 |
| ignas | so my idea was that you should do the same with person -> section relationship | 17:16 |
| Lumiere | not really | 17:16 |
| th1a | Hm... | 17:16 |
| ignas | so if john was in history up to date 2005-05-13 | 17:16 |
| th1a | I would say a timetable should be immutable. | 17:16 |
| ignas | history new that it had john removed from it 2005-05-13 | 17:17 |
| ignas | th1a: we have discussed the usecases last time you were in vilnius | 17:17 |
| ignas | and this way of doing it covers a lot of the timetable mangling that is happening in the beginning of the school year | 17:17 |
| ignas | without losing track of things | 17:17 |
| * th1a remembers talking while walking among Soviet apartment buildings. | 17:18 | |
| ignas | immutable objects can't track things like "lessons moved" vs "lesson added + lesson removed" | 17:18 |
| ignas | so an object that has a "history" is more suitable than a set of states in this repsect | 17:18 |
| th1a | Ah... it is slowly re-loading into my tiny head. | 17:18 |
| ignas | but apparently when it comes to relationships you can leave that data in the relationship itself and all the usecases still pass | 17:18 |
| ignas | so instead of iterating through a history of a section | 17:19 |
| ignas | you just grab *all* the relationships | 17:19 |
| ignas | and handle each of them the way you need | 17:19 |
| ignas | like - asking which of them are active now | 17:19 |
| ignas | so the whole list gives you a list of all members that ever were in the section (very useful for attendance, journal gradebook tables) | 17:20 |
| th1a | Yes. | 17:20 |
| ignas | while you can easily retrieve the information about the current state of the relationship | 17:20 |
| ignas | when displaying the "cell" for the grade/absence mark | 17:20 |
| ignas | and iterate through time | 17:20 |
| ignas | while drawing small X marks in the table cells | 17:21 |
| ignas | in the order you want | 17:21 |
| ignas | student by student (relationship by relationship) or day by day | 17:21 |
| ignas | hopefully it will work, if not - i'll tell you why, and what's my new plan ;) | 17:21 |
| th1a | OK. I won't interfere. | 17:22 |
| ignas | but still we need proper school year -> term -> stuff ownership hierarchy working first | 17:22 |
| th1a | OK. | 17:22 |
| th1a | ignas: What do you think about meeting with the Lyceum teachers when I'm in town of EP? | 17:23 |
| ignas | hmm, i'll ask them | 17:23 |
| ignas | I am thinking of talking about eggs in EP | 17:25 |
| th1a | I should book my flight soon -- I can get there a day early or late for a visit if necessary. | 17:25 |
| th1a | Yeah, I was wondering if you were going to give a talk. You should. | 17:25 |
| ignas | ok, will write them an email today or tomorrow morning | 17:25 |
| th1a | Thanks. | 17:26 |
| th1a | Any last words? | 17:26 |
| ignas | have a nice week? ;) | 17:26 |
| Lumiere | I'm with ignas | 17:26 |
| th1a | Have a great week, gentlemen! | 17:27 |
| Lumiere | cya all monday | 17:27 |
| * th1a drops the bag of gravel. | 17:27 | |
| *** wbrady has joined #schooltool | 18:21 | |
| th1a | TeliaSonera today announced it has signed an agreement with Apple to bring the iPhone to Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia later this year. | 18:23 |
| ignas | like, whatever | 18:30 |
| ignas | ;) | 18:30 |
| ignas | i was always interested what would happen if i'd get a blackberry or an iphone and switch carriers | 18:31 |
| ignas | i think PoV is not using "Telia" | 18:32 |
| th1a | You can show up mgedmin's N810! | 18:37 |
| wbrady | tdoggette: are you still with jelkner? | 18:40 |
| tdoggette | wbrady: Yes. | 18:40 |
| wbrady | could you ask him to get on sometime | 18:40 |
| tdoggette | wbrady: He says he'll see you at the Career Center. | 18:41 |
| wbrady | o ok great | 18:41 |
| *** tdoggette has quit IRC | 18:55 | |
| ignas | th1a: merged both of my branches to trunk | 19:29 |
| aelkner | ignas: i'm trying to get SLA to use the bzr code | 19:35 |
| ignas | yes | 19:36 |
| aelkner | something got broken with travesal | 19:36 |
| aelkner | traversal | 19:36 |
| ignas | is it the sla in bzr? | 19:36 |
| aelkner | the traversal adapters i wrote in sla | 19:36 |
| ignas | because i am pretty sure that i have fixed the code in the sla bzr repository? | 19:36 |
| aelkner | i think you maybe broke it | 19:37 |
| aelkner | or maybe i did wen i updated it from the svn code | 19:37 |
| aelkner | look, my svn code works | 19:37 |
| ignas | the fix is not available in the svn repository | 19:37 |
| ignas | your svn code works with svn schooltool | 19:37 |
| aelkner | right | 19:37 |
| aelkner | so how do i get it to work with the bzr schooltool? | 19:38 |
| ignas | well - you stop using the sla from svn | 19:38 |
| aelkner | i'm not | 19:38 |
| ignas | then you will have to fix it yourself, which means - now you will have to checkout sla from bzr, look at bzr log and get the last commit i made there, and apply it to the sla in svn | 19:39 |
| ignas | which will make it quite difficult to backport your own changes that are in the svn repository back to bzr | 19:39 |
| ignas | in the future | 19:39 |
| aelkner | i promise i will not use the svn repo anymore | 19:40 |
| aelkner | i just need to get my bzr one to work | 19:40 |
| ignas | bzr one of schooltool? | 19:40 |
| ignas | or bzr one of sla | 19:40 |
| aelkner | bzr one of sla | 19:41 |
| ignas | oh, bzr uped | 19:41 |
| ignas | looking at it | 19:41 |
| ignas | hmm | 19:42 |
| ignas | all tests are passing | 19:42 |
| ignas | in bzr+ssh://schooltool.org/sla/trunk/ | 19:42 |
| ignas | a.k.a. i thought you were using the svn version, | 19:42 |
| ignas | typo | 19:43 |
| ignas | a.k.a. http://staging.schooltool.org/bzr2/schooltool/sla/trunk/ | 19:43 |
| aelkner | that's what i'm using | 19:43 |
| aelkner | but i'm failing | 19:43 |
| ignas | bzr up ? | 19:43 |
| ignas | lisppaste5: url | 19:44 |
| lisppaste5 | To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/schooltool and enter your paste. | 19:44 |
| ignas | post the failure too | 19:44 |
| ignas | just in case | 19:44 |
| aelkner | Tree is up to date at revision 87. | 19:44 |
| *** wbrady has quit IRC | 19:44 | |
| ignas | maybe some other component is the source of the problem | 19:44 |
| aelkner | i'm getting a not found error | 19:44 |
| ignas | maybe it's schooltool that is out of date | 19:44 |
| aelkner | http://schooltool.scienceleadership.org:7090/persons/eabbott/intervention | 19:44 |
| aelkner | that's traversal from a person to his intervention | 19:44 |
| ignas | Failed to Connect | 19:44 |
| aelkner | i stopped the server | 19:45 |
| aelkner | wait | 19:45 |
| aelkner | server is back up | 19:45 |
| ignas | are tests passing? | 19:45 |
| aelkner | no | 19:45 |
| aelkner | fails on traversal to a narrati ve | 19:45 |
| aelkner | narrative | 19:45 |
| ignas | bzr log --revision 86 in sla | 19:46 |
| aelkner | that would be a long one | 19:47 |
| aelkner | that's all the changes i made for two weeks that i moved into the bzr repo | 19:47 |
| ignas | "bzr log --revision 86" | 19:47 |
| aelkner | can you find that in launchpad? | 19:47 |
| aelkner | can i? | 19:48 |
| ignas | i looked at it, i am wondering what is the state of your checkout | 19:48 |
| ignas | not what the revision is on trunk | 19:48 |
| aelkner | i ran the command you asked for | 19:49 |
| aelkner | revno: 86 | 19:49 |
| aelkner | committer: Ignas Mikalajūnas <ignas@pov.lt> | 19:49 |
| aelkner | branch nick: sla | 19:49 |
| aelkner | timestamp: Fri 2008-05-16 19:34:49 +0300 | 19:49 |
| aelkner | message: | 19:49 |
| aelkner | Use traversal plugins properly. | 19:49 |
| ignas | ok, found the bug, my test filter was off | 19:49 |
| ignas | as in - i was testing schooltool.sla | 19:49 |
| ignas | and the failure is in schooltool.intervention | 19:50 |
| ignas | will fix it now | 19:50 |
| ignas | and set up a buildbot for sla | 19:50 |
| aelkner | what will i need to do when you've done your fix? bzr up? | 19:50 |
| ignas | yes | 19:50 |
| aelkner | ok, ping when youre ready | 19:50 |
| ignas | your last commit | 19:54 |
| ignas | reverted the changes that i made | 19:54 |
| ignas | because instead of applying the diff | 19:54 |
| ignas | you have copied configure.zcml on top of the old one | 19:54 |
| aelkner | yeah, i thought that i wouldn't have a problem doing that | 19:55 |
| aelkner | since i started with your latest | 19:55 |
| aelkner | but i realize now | 19:55 |
| aelkner | that you changed something since you created teh bzr repo | 19:55 |
| ignas | working buildbot would have notified you about that | 19:55 |
| ignas | before trying to deploy it though | 19:55 |
| aelkner | how does one apply a diff | 19:55 |
| ignas | so i'll have to fix that asap | 19:55 |
| ignas | with bzr i think you can "bzr patch some_changes.patch" | 19:56 |
| ignas | in svn you do "patch -p0 < some_changes.patch" | 19:56 |
| aelkner | i see | 19:56 |
| ignas | that is if you have bzrtools installed | 19:57 |
| ignas | commited | 19:59 |
| ignas | bzr up | 19:59 |
| aelkner | bzr up done, testing now | 20:00 |
| ignas | as for visualisation of bzr history | 20:00 |
| ignas | install bzr-gtk | 20:00 |
| ignas | and use "bzr vis" | 20:00 |
| ignas | very handy | 20:00 |
| ignas | gives a gtk clickable history with nice drawings of all the merges and stuff | 20:00 |
| aelkner | ok | 20:01 |
| aelkner | tests passed | 20:01 |
| aelkner | now rinnign app | 20:01 |
| aelkner | ok, i found a problem travesing that apparently i don't test | 20:05 |
| aelkner | so i guess i need to write the failing test first | 20:05 |
| ignas | yep | 20:07 |
| aelkner | ignas: i committed the failing test | 20:23 |
| aelkner | you'll notice that i had to change the name of the traverser in the configure.zcml file | 20:24 |
| aelkner | i don't know if that has anything to do with the failure | 20:24 |
| ignas | emm, is it still failing? | 20:26 |
| ignas | because it's passing for me | 20:26 |
| ignas | maybe your change to configure.zcml fixed the bug? | 20:26 |
| ignas | aelkner: it seems that you fixed the code yourself ;) | 20:27 |
| aelkner | yeah, it passes on SLA, but fails on my machine | 20:28 |
| ignas | bzr up? | 20:28 |
| ignas | or just look at the configure.zcml to see if it's up to date | 20:29 |
| aelkner | i bzr up'd everything | 20:29 |
| aelkner | and the change to the intevention package was made on my development machine | 20:30 |
| aelkner | so i can't figure out why it would fail | 20:30 |
| aelkner | even though it works on SLA's machine | 20:30 |
| ignas | can you lisppaste the failure | 20:30 |
| aelkner | ForbiddenAttribute: ('publishTraverse', <schooltool.intervention.intervention.InterventionStudentTraverserPlugin object at 0xa70448c>) | 20:30 |
| aelkner | that's just weird | 20:32 |
| aelkner | publishTravese is a method of NameTraverserPlugin | 20:32 |
| ignas | looks like class declaration is missing for the inteventionstudenttraverserplugin | 20:33 |
| aelkner | i thought of that | 20:33 |
| aelkner | but it's missing for the other ones and they don't complain | 20:33 |
| ignas | very strange | 20:34 |
| ignas | something is probably different, either the wrong code is being used, some package is not up to date, or something else | 20:34 |
| aelkner | mabe i need to update eggs? | 20:35 |
| ignas | you can do bin/buildout -n | 20:35 |
| ignas | just in case | 20:35 |
| ignas | but it should not be affecting anything i'd guess | 20:35 |
| aelkner | i did the bin/buildout -n and it didn't get any new eggs | 20:36 |
| aelkner | and the test still fails | 20:36 |
| aelkner | should i remove eggs altogether | 20:37 |
| ignas | lisppaste me the bin/test-all | 20:37 |
| ignas | the command that you are using to run tests | 20:37 |
| lisppaste5 | aelkner pasted "test-all" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/61320 | 20:38 |
| ignas | paste me bzr info in: | 20:40 |
| ignas | /home/aelkner/schooltool_sandbox/schooltool/ | 20:40 |
| ignas | and /home/aelkner/schooltool_sandbox/sla/ | 20:40 |
| ignas | and lisppaste me the same file from sla | 20:41 |
| ignas | sorry for so many requests, but in this case you are my eyes and ears ;) | 20:41 |
| lisppaste5 | aelkner pasted "SLA test-all" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/61321 | 20:42 |
| aelkner | that's no problem | 20:43 |
| ignas | now i just need the "bzr info" part | 20:46 |
| aelkner | ok | 20:46 |
| aelkner | give me a minute to compile both | 20:47 |
| ignas | versions of eggs match perfectly, the only slight difference is the 64 bit part, but it's not relevant | 20:47 |
| lisppaste5 | aelkner pasted "bzr infos" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/61322 | 20:50 |
| ignas | can you do a bzr pull in schooltool branch on your machine | 20:51 |
| ignas | in ~/schooltool_sandbox/schooltool | 20:52 |
| ignas | and maybe even "bzr bind bzr+ssh://schooltool.org/aelkner/schooltool/schooltool_sla/" | 20:52 |
| ignas | because at the moment it is a branch not a checkout | 20:53 |
| aelkner | bzr pull yielded: | 20:53 |
| aelkner | Using saved location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool/ | 20:53 |
| aelkner | bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the merge command to reconcile them. | 20:53 |
| aelkner | shall i do the bzr bind now? | 20:53 |
| ignas | hmm | 20:54 |
| ignas | do bzr bind | 20:54 |
| ignas | and bzr up | 20:54 |
| aelkner | bzr info shows that i'm laready binded to that location | 20:54 |
| ignas | nope, the sla branch has the | 20:54 |
| ignas | "checkout of" | 20:55 |
| ignas | parh | 20:55 |
| ignas | part | 20:55 |
| ignas | if there is no "checkout of" | 20:55 |
| ignas | it's not a checkout and is an unbound branch | 20:55 |
| ignas | at least from what i can recall | 20:55 |
| aelkner | i'll do the bind | 20:55 |
| aelkner | no error | 20:56 |
| ignas | bzr up now | 20:56 |
| aelkner | bzr up? | 20:56 |
| ignas | and look at bzr info | 20:56 |
| ignas | to see and understand how it is different now | 20:56 |
| ignas | so you could tell which one you have if you'll get problems | 20:56 |
| aelkner | checkout of branch changed | 20:56 |
| aelkner | bzr up just told me that i'm up to date | 20:57 |
| ignas | i see | 20:58 |
| ignas | run tests | 20:58 |
| aelkner | same failure | 20:59 |
| aelkner | but shouldn't that be the case since no code was brought down | 20:59 |
| ignas | as i can't see the console, i thought that maybe bzr bind pulls some stuff | 20:59 |
| aelkner | sorry, i didn't mention that | 21:00 |
| aelkner | i thought i did | 21:00 |
| aelkner | the bzr bind just returned a prompt | 21:00 |
| ignas | does "bzr vis" work in that schooltool checkout? | 21:01 |
| aelkner | aelkner@ubuntu:~/schooltool_sandbox/schooltool$ bzr vis | 21:02 |
| aelkner | bzr: ERROR: unknown command "vis" | 21:02 |
| ignas | sudo apt-get bzr-gtk | 21:03 |
| aelkner | i know you mean install | 21:03 |
| ignas | yes | 21:03 |
| aelkner | installing | 21:03 |
| aelkner | running, what do i look for? | 21:04 |
| ignas | list of the last revisions | 21:04 |
| ignas | in the top | 21:04 |
| ignas | compared to: https://code.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool | 21:05 |
| aelkner | 2422, 2421, 2420.1.1, 2420, 2418.1.2 | 21:05 |
| aelkner | hey | 21:06 |
| aelkner | my comment for revision 2422 is: | 21:06 |
| aelkner | created view for assigning a student to sections | 21:07 |
| aelkner | with my name | 21:07 |
| aelkner | but the link you gave me has: | 21:07 |
| aelkner | Merge traversal adapter refatcotring branch. | 21:07 |
| aelkner | with yoru name | 21:08 |
| ignas | ok, found the problem | 21:08 |
| ignas | somehow you have branched in the middle or somewhere around the point i was making the traversal changes | 21:08 |
| ignas | now what you have to do | 21:08 |
| ignas | is just merge the changes i made to trunk into your branch | 21:08 |
| aelkner | how do i do that? | 21:09 |
| ignas | so do: bzr merge http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool | 21:09 |
| ignas | in your sla branch | 21:09 |
| ignas | and "bzr ci" | 21:09 |
| ignas | ok | 21:09 |
| aelkner | of schooltool of course | 21:09 |
| ignas | wait a sec if you can | 21:09 |
| aelkner | ok | 21:09 |
| ignas | now can you do "bzr status" | 21:09 |
| ignas | on the schooltool_sla checkout in sla | 21:09 |
| aelkner | i'm confused | 21:10 |
| aelkner | i haven't done anything yet | 21:10 |
| ignas | i know | 21:10 |
| aelkner | what dir? | 21:10 |
| aelkner | what command> | 21:10 |
| ignas | /opt/schooltool_sandbox/schooltool/ | 21:10 |
| ignas | "bzr status" in it | 21:10 |
| aelkner | the /opt dir is only for the SLA machine | 21:10 |
| aelkner | on my development machine i use my home dir | 21:10 |
| ignas | i know | 21:11 |
| aelkner | so you want me to bzr status on the SLA machine? | 21:11 |
| ignas | yes | 21:11 |
| ignas | the fact is - because of some interesting reason your checkout in sla is more up to date than the one on your development machine | 21:11 |
| ignas | which is very strange, and i want to be sure you won | 21:11 |
| ignas | won't get conflicts | 21:11 |
| aelkner | root@schooltool:/opt/schooltool_sandbox/schooltool# bzr status | 21:11 |
| aelkner | modified: | 21:11 |
| aelkner | Makefile | 21:11 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/app/browser/configure.zcml | 21:11 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/app/rest/configure.zcml | 21:11 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/level/rest/configure.zcml | 21:11 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/resource/configure.zcml | 21:12 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/timetable/browser/configure.zcml | 21:12 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/timetable/rest/configure.zcml | 21:12 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/traverser/README.txt | 21:12 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/traverser/interfaces.py | 21:12 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/traverser/metaconfigure.py | 21:12 |
| aelkner | src/schooltool/traverser/traverser.py | 21:12 |
| aelkner | pending merges: | 21:12 |
| aelkner | Ignas Mikalajūnas 2008-05-16 Remove some blanklines. | 21:12 |
| aelkner | Ignas Mikalajūnas 2008-05-16 Merge traversal adapter refatcotring branch. | 21:12 |
| aelkner | Ignas Mikalajūnas 2008-05-16 Change traversal plugins to be adapters not subscribers. | 21:12 |
| ignas | tada | 21:12 |
| ignas | this answers your question | 21:12 |
| ignas | why did you get traversal adapters | 21:12 |
| aelkner | i'm not sure what i means | 21:12 |
| ignas | even though you have branched earlier | 21:12 |
| ignas | somehow you managed to merge the trunk and your branch | 21:13 |
| ignas | i can't tell when | 21:13 |
| ignas | was it bzr pull | 21:13 |
| aelkner | maybe | 21:13 |
| aelkner | i don't know | 21:13 |
| ignas | i understand | 21:13 |
| aelkner | too may different possibilities | 21:13 |
| ignas | well - bzr revert everything | 21:13 |
| aelkner | ways to screw up | 21:13 |
| ignas | then - "bzr merge" on your dev machine | 21:13 |
| aelkner | so i should revert on SLA machine? | 21:13 |
| ignas | yes | 21:13 |
| aelkner | ok | 21:14 |
| ignas | bzr ci on dev machine | 21:14 |
| ignas | and bzr up on sla machine | 21:14 |
| aelkner | but dev mahine is the one that doesn't work | 21:14 |
| ignas | i know | 21:14 |
| ignas | i can go into detail of why you must do that if you want | 21:14 |
| aelkner | not right now | 21:15 |
| ignas | precisely my point ;) | 21:15 |
| aelkner | so bzr st on dev machine yeilds nothing | 21:15 |
| aelkner | so nothing to commit | 21:15 |
| aelkner | wait | 21:15 |
| aelkner | i didn't bzr merge | 21:16 |
| aelkner | i lost that command in the chat | 21:16 |
| aelkner | so you want me to do this? | 21:16 |
| aelkner | bzr merge http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/schooltool/schooltool | 21:16 |
| aelkner | on my dev machine? | 21:16 |
| ignas | yes | 21:17 |
| aelkner | ok | 21:17 |
| aelkner | i unerstand your reasons now that i took into account merging on my dev machine | 21:17 |
| aelkner | ok | 21:18 |
| aelkner | all changes applied successfully | 21:18 |
| aelkner | bzr ci? | 21:18 |
| ignas | yes | 21:18 |
| ignas | you migth want to run tests first | 21:18 |
| aelkner | ok | 21:18 |
| aelkner | i have no failures for schooltool.intervention, doing all tests now | 21:20 |
| ignas | cool | 21:20 |
| aelkner | while waiting for tests to pass, wold this be a good checkin comment: | 21:25 |
| aelkner | merged schooltool trunk in with sla branch | 21:26 |
| ignas | i guess | 21:26 |
| ignas | merged from schooltool trunk | 21:26 |
| ignas | is more precise | 21:26 |
| aelkner | ok | 21:26 |
| aelkner | so how often will i need to do this kind of merge | 21:26 |
| aelkner | all test passed | 21:27 |
| ignas | cool | 21:28 |
| ignas | bzr commit it | 21:28 |
| ignas | check once more that bzr status on the SLA machine is saying - nothing has changed | 21:28 |
| ignas | and bzr up | 21:28 |
| aelkner | sorry, i bzr up'd without bzr st, but the last command i had run was bst revert, so that shoudl be ok | 21:30 |
| aelkner | running tests now | 21:30 |
| aelkner | so to answer my own question | 21:31 |
| aelkner | i should do the bzr merge any time i want whatever changes you made to the trunk | 21:31 |
| aelkner | which in theory should be most of the time | 21:32 |
| aelkner | trunk is after all the authoritative version | 21:32 |
| ignas | i think so | 21:32 |
| aelkner | i guess only time i wouldn't want to merge is if i'm suspicious of what you changed | 21:32 |
| aelkner | if i think it could break SLA's live environment | 21:32 |
| ignas | yeah, i guess | 21:32 |
| aelkner | it's nice that this problem revealed that i needed to add that one test | 21:35 |
| aelkner | all test pass | 21:37 |
| ignas | cool | 21:37 |
| ignas | i'll go home now then ;) | 21:37 |
| ignas | bye | 21:37 |
| aelkner | thanks | 21:37 |
| ignas | np | 21:37 |
| *** ignas has quit IRC | 21:37 | |
| *** wbrady has joined #schooltool | 22:19 | |
| *** wbrady has quit IRC | 22:27 | |
| *** alga has quit IRC | 23:08 | |
| *** tdogg|away is now known as tdoggette | 23:46 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!