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| th1a | ignas: Did you look at my pictures? | 15:52 |
|---|---|---|
| ignas | th1a: yes | 15:57 |
| th1a | Do they fit with what you've been envisioning? | 15:57 |
| th1a | Generally? | 15:57 |
| ignas | a bit more ambitious but yes | 15:58 |
| th1a | More ambitious in what way? | 15:58 |
| ignas | your plan needs some views that do not exist in schooltool | 16:00 |
| ignas | and making them + making them pluggable to do what you have drawn is *work* | 16:01 |
| ignas | as in "is not free" | 16:01 |
| ignas | your drawings that is | 16:01 |
| th1a | Well, many of them don't need to be pluggable. | 16:01 |
| ignas | plus - i am not 100% sure we can fit all the actions in the button row for all objects | 16:01 |
| ignas | if not pluggable then complex | 16:01 |
| ignas | complex meaning - they do not simply show stuff | 16:01 |
| th1a | The home view is as complex as you want it to be, definitely. | 16:02 |
| ignas | but rather show some things on one condition and other things on other conditions | 16:02 |
| th1a | The new views can all start out pretty simply. | 16:03 |
| ignas | i guess yes | 16:03 |
| th1a | Although I think aelkner would like to plan them out in precise detail. | 16:03 |
| ignas | just pointing out that it adds more tasks to the schedule | 16:03 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:03 |
| th1a | I'm confident they can be fleshed out after the sprint. | 16:05 |
| ignas | i think we should only think of some things after we see what we can do with the system | 16:05 |
| ignas | as soon as we will add tabs and move actions to buttons | 16:05 |
| ignas | my guess is that we will encounter a lot of problems we didn't think of | 16:06 |
| ignas | and will have to spend time mangling schooltool to fit with tabs and to work sanely | 16:06 |
| ignas | but i am a pessimist in general | 16:06 |
| th1a | It seems to me that making sure the right tabs are highlighted when you're viewing each view will be tedious. | 16:07 |
| ignas | doing it right will be, but just making sure schooltool makes sense with tabs is something I am not sure about at the moment | 16:08 |
| ignas | matching the behaviour of the application with user expectations part | 16:08 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:08 |
| ignas | because our navigation menus no matter how crappy they are | 16:08 |
| ignas | at least match with what you expect out of the system most of the time | 16:08 |
| th1a | They map directly to the internal structure of the objects, at least. | 16:09 |
| ignas | navigation is such a crucial part of the system that the system get's designed around it | 16:11 |
| ignas | which is why I think it is so difficult to redo it from scratch, without redesigning parts of the application | 16:11 |
| ignas | we would have made the interaction with sections courses attendance and the rest of the things quite differently | 16:11 |
| ignas | if we were using tabs from the very beginning | 16:12 |
| th1a | Well, it is definitely an argument for making the initial step in the simplest possible way. | 16:12 |
| ignas | the lack of user specific "front pages" for content objects is one of the most noticable differences | 16:12 |
| th1a | I'm not sure exactly what you mean. | 16:12 |
| ignas | well - we don't have an attendance view for student or an attendance summary view for teacher | 16:13 |
| ignas | because we assumed that teachers will only access attendance for sections | 16:13 |
| ignas | and if you have an attendance tab | 16:13 |
| ignas | you suddenly need a page that would show "general information" or links | 16:13 |
| ignas | and just plain links suddenly *feel* not that good | 16:14 |
| ignas | th1a: as for the simples solution - that's how I explained it to lyceum | 16:14 |
| ignas | th1a: we want to have tabs so that our new users would start reasoning about tabs | 16:14 |
| ignas | th1a: and how to improve them | 16:14 |
| ignas | th1a: instead of concentrating on the menus, or comming up with their own tabbed ideas | 16:15 |
| ignas | th1a: just having a common starting point even if it's not too good | 16:15 |
| ignas | should help us have meaningful discussions about how the "tab" system can be improved | 16:15 |
| ignas | instead having to go through all the yes, menus suck, but we'll have tabs in a year or two | 16:15 |
| ignas | so we can't discuss menus at the moment | 16:16 |
| ignas | because they will be gone | 16:16 |
| ignas | th1a: hope I understood your motivation for the change correctly | 16:16 |
| th1a | Yes. | 16:17 |
| th1a | Sorry, looked away for a couple minutes... | 16:17 |
| th1a | Yes, that's right. | 16:17 |
| ignas | so it is more of a "setting topic for the discussion" not "coming up with the best possible solution that will suit everyone" | 16:19 |
| th1a | Well, aelkner would like to have a completely worked out best possible solution. | 16:21 |
| th1a | But that's his nature. | 16:21 |
| * ignas sighs | 16:22 | |
| th1a | I've just tried to make complex forward-looking plans enough times now to know that it is futile. | 16:24 |
| * th1a goes to shower. | 16:25 | |
| th1a | btw, in case you're wondering, the US is headed for a complete electoral meltdown. | 16:25 |
| th1a | Should be fun. | 16:25 |
| ignas | what does "electoral meltdown" mean? | 16:27 |
| th1a | ignas: Nobody knows. That's the fun part! | 16:45 |
| ignas | :) | 16:48 |
| ayanami | ignas: likely that for the first time in recent memory, one of the parties won't have a nominee for president by their official nominating convention | 17:05 |
| ayanami | wow nick issues | 17:06 |
| *** ayanami is now known as Lumiere | 17:06 | |
| Lumiere | been a while since I got popped to that nick | 17:06 |
| ignas | Lumiere: now we know your secret alter ego | 17:11 |
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| Lumiere | one of them | 17:38 |
| Lumiere | my link list is 7 nicks | 17:39 |
| Lumiere | all of em set noexpire | 17:39 |
| Lumiere | off to work... bbl | 17:40 |
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| th1a | hey aelkner. | 22:13 |
| aelkner | hey | 22:13 |
| aelkner | just wanted to say hey? | 22:14 |
| aelkner | th1a: i like your idea for "The School" instead of "Enrollment" | 22:18 |
| aelkner | even if I came up with Enrollment and welsh liked it | 22:18 |
| aelkner | your idea is more generic | 22:19 |
| th1a | Are you ok with what I've got overall? | 22:19 |
| th1a | Enrollment limits what can be stuffed under the tab too much. | 22:19 |
| aelkner | yeah, i like the red bar between the top and the current module | 22:19 |
| aelkner | we need to have the schooltool logo there, don't we | 22:19 |
| th1a | Not really. | 22:20 |
| aelkner | you don't want any logo? | 22:20 |
| th1a | We can stick it on the home page or something. | 22:20 |
| th1a | It isn't worth the space, I don't think. | 22:20 |
| aelkner | i could be convinced of that argument | 22:20 |
| aelkner | but i thought other people have been pushing for logog and branding | 22:20 |
| aelkner | If there were room for it in the red bar, would it help? | 22:21 |
| th1a | I do like my idea of having it say "SchoolTool: free administrative software for <YOUR NAME HERE> | 22:21 |
| th1a | " | 22:21 |
| th1a | YOUR SCHOOL NAME, actually. | 22:21 |
| aelkner | yes, that does tell the user two things | 22:21 |
| aelkner | that they are using schooltool | 22:22 |
| aelkner | and which school | 22:22 |
| aelkner | so that's important | 22:22 |
| th1a | And it is just for them! | 22:22 |
| aelkner | but could we add the logo (a small enough one)? | 22:22 |
| th1a | Zonki doesn't look like anything small. | 22:22 |
| aelkner | who's Zonki? | 22:22 |
| th1a | Our zebra. | 22:22 |
| aelkner | oh, him | 22:23 |
| aelkner | well, it's a small matter at best | 22:23 |
| aelkner | the important part is the schooltool and school names appearing | 22:23 |
| th1a | I think we can fit him on the home/go page. | 22:24 |
| th1a | So in reality, we're all pretty close now, right? | 22:24 |
| aelkner | could you explain your thinking on Manage versus "The School"? | 22:24 |
| aelkner | there seems to be overlap | 22:25 |
| th1a | Well, it is essentially the same as "Admin" vs. "Enrollment" | 22:25 |
| th1a | Except different words. | 22:25 |
| aelkner | you can add a person in both places | 22:25 |
| aelkner | welsh wanted admin to be only for site preferences | 22:25 |
| aelkner | and such | 22:25 |
| th1a | Under manage it is just a link to the add form on the person container -- under "The School." | 22:26 |
| th1a | I think I discussed this with Welsh. | 22:26 |
| aelkner | i wasn't there, so i'll take your word on that | 22:26 |
| th1a | There are just a set of shortcuts to common tasks on the go page for Manage. | 22:27 |
| aelkner | to answer your bigger question, though, yes, it is very close to what we all want | 22:27 |
| aelkner | welsh and i can work on getting that into the high-fidelity prototype this weekend | 22:28 |
| aelkner | i want welsh to talk with you again before that | 22:28 |
| aelkner | just to make sure he sees the same things at the detail level that you do | 22:28 |
| aelkner | then we will be ready to do the dreamweaver stuff | 22:28 |
| aelkner | it would be nice to have that by next monday for us to click around in | 22:29 |
| aelkner | then, at the sprint, we can hit the ground running | 22:29 |
| aelkner | anyway, i think we're in good shape | 22:30 |
| aelkner | th1a: btw, one of the best things about your mockup is the movement of user name and log out to the red bar below the top | 22:31 |
| aelkner | that gives us plenty of real estate at the top for new plugins | 22:32 |
| th1a | aelkner: Sorry, I had to go change a colossally poopy diaper. | 22:34 |
| th1a | That was the one I've been dreading for 13 months. | 22:34 |
| aelkner | that's a nice image | 22:34 |
| aelkner | :) | 22:35 |
| th1a | OK, I have to go. | 22:35 |
| aelkner | don't get any poop on your keyboard | 22:35 |
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